View Full Version : Squad Control
Although OFP's method of controlling members of the player's squad has stood the test of time, I admit I was intimidated by it. What's more, the squad control system, using both F1 thru F-12 and the numeric keys beneath, limited squad sizes to only twelve members. Not to mention the seperate action menu.
Scripting has worked around these limits, and we've seen products like the Chain of Command interface and General Barron's real-life combat patrol come out of the community. But I'm just wondering what BIS will have come out of the box.
So will ArAs move away from OFP squad control and perform like games like Full Spectrum Warrior and Brothers in Arms: with their contact sensitive point-and-click interface? Or perhaps Ghost Recon 2 & 3, with their map-like interface? Or will ArAs retain a revamped version of OFP interface?
Personally, I'm a fan of FSW's and Brothers in Arms (semi-) intelligent AI squad members who react to contacts in a realistic manner, and are able to be quickly moved about with the click of a mouse.
Any comments?
Im pretty sure things will stay the way they are. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
But am I the only one who think that is a good thing?
I guees so http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif
gandalf the white
May 30 2005, 20:55
TA50, don't forget that BiA , though it doesn't look like it, is scripted to death. OFP AI is not. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
SnypaUK
May 30 2005, 21:01
If your AI guys now what takes cover means and can do that and similar tasks well and indicate targets better, yeah the current system is good, although i still dream of a game where i can command a whole platoon to company of troops and still be playing a shooter
Voice control shortcuts like "one, cover (point area)" "six, target (point)" "all, danger"
That would be a really usefull feature and would immerse you alot imo.
Espectro
May 31 2005, 12:43
Actually, I think the ofp: cwc squad control was perfect. The only limitation was the (at some times) ignorant AI.
But, as BIS announced about "game 2", we will have control of more than just a single squad. But why not just have officers under you just like now, using your F-keys?
Only difference now, would be looking at the map, setting up waypoints, and orders for each officer to order his men around.
Just imagine:
Orderring 1 group to flank left, and use suppressive fire, then another go right to make a decoy - making the enemy totally astonished, just so you can make your frontal attack while they are laying duck.
m000
PS: Oh yea, im BAACK!!
Quote[/b] ]RUKH Posted on May 31 2005,07:43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Voice control shortcuts like "one, cover (point area)" "six, target (point)" "all, danger"
That would be a really usefull feature and would immerse you alot imo.
In addition to the simple point and shoot, why not have modifier keys?
Select unit and:
Click on point = command move (already in OFP)
Click on enemy unit = engage unit (already in OFP)
Alt+click on point = cover direction (already in OFP)
Alt+click on enemy unit = Target unit
Ctrl+click on points = Add waypoints and command move
Ctrl+click on enemy = Target unit and only return fire ( I missed this functionality in OFP. Got shot up often trying to command them to open fire after issuing a hold and being spotted.)
Right clicking on an enemy unit tells a unit to target it already.
In addition to the simple point and shoot, why not have modifier keys?
Select unit and:
Click on point = command move (already in OFP)
Click on enemy unit = engage unit (already in OFP)
Alt+click on point = cover direction (already in OFP)
Alt+click on enemy unit = Target unit
Ctrl+click on points = Add waypoints and command move
Ctrl+click on enemy = Target unit and only return fire ( I missed this functionality in OFP. Got shot up often trying to command them to open fire after issuing a hold and being spotted.)
I really like this idea.
Heatseeker
Jun 2 2005, 02:45
The original interface is great, i just think most players didnt take advantage of all the possibilities and fun it can provide, you can split your squad into fireteams and easily select them than way, use the move comand and choose direction and distance (ex: SW, 500M), you can select a couple a.i. soldiers and tell them to advance so they act like decoy i mean scouts http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif , you can order your AT soldiers to stay back so you dont loose them so easily in a unexpected infantry encounter, you can use watch direction, flank, lotsa formation options, it was really well done and fitting to the game style http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif .
The problems with it were gameplay related, keeping them a.i. teamates alive, lack of cover and the see first kill first design, it didnt work so well in the heat of the battle because you had to focus on surviving, shooting and ordering, so many of those comand options dont get used alot in combat situations.
I still think the current interface is well suited for ARAS though http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif .
fix bayonets.
thats the command i await the most.
a flank command would be good.
aim at target and select flank left or flank right.
"surrender" might be another intresting one.
or select a target and then "take prisoner" as well.
that could add some depth for mission scripters.
fix bayonets.
thats the command i await the most
Download the UKF DPM Troop pack then http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
Maybe it will be similar to Battlefield's 2 Commander mode?
I liked the Old OFP squad control,If they mess around with it too much it can be confusing.
Espectro
Jun 3 2005, 08:55
I dont know why people want the bayonets on the weapons???
I mean, how often are you that close to an enemy on a battlefield?
Ive only been that close as blackop/spetsnaz and they have knives/showels....
Will bayonets be usefull? I dont think so
I get that close everytime I enter a building for example.
Or storm a trench or defended fortification.
(I don't want to put down my rifle and pick up a little spade, it's a bit under powered compared to a 30 round fully automatic spear tipped assault rifle).
How many times have you died reloading or drawing a secondary weapon in CQB?
To my knowledge a bayonet charge was last used in combat no earlier than May of 2004.
Quote[/b] ]SCOTTISH troops fixed bayonets and fought hand to hand with a Shi’ite militia in southern Iraq in one of their fiercest clashes since the war was declared more than a year ago, it was reported last night.
Soldiers from the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders mounted what were described as "classic infantry assaults" on firing and mortar positions held by more than 100 fighters loyal to the outlawed cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, according to military sources.
<...>
"It was very bloody and it was difficult to count all their dead," one source was quoted as saying. "There were bodies floating in the river."
The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders were drawn into the fighting when soldiers in two Land-Rovers were ambushed on Friday afternoon about 15 miles east of the city of Amara. The soldiers escaped, only to be ambushed a second time by a larger group of militia, armed with machine-guns, rocket-propelled grenades and mortars.
Reinforcements were summoned from the Princess of Wales’s Royal Regiment at a base nearby. "There was some pretty fierce hand-to-hand fighting with bayonets fixed," the source added. "There were some classic assaults on mortar positions held by the al-Sadr forces."
Official spokesman Major Ian Clooney confirmed the Mehdi army "took a pretty heavy knocking", but refused to specify tactics. "This was certainly an intense engagement," he added....
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2005/04/highlanders_fix.html
more sensationally retold in The Sun newspaper.
Quote[/b] ]
Bayonet Brits kill 35 rebels
The Sun (UK) ^ | 5/16/04 | Unattributed
----------------------------------------------
OUTNUMBERED British soldiers killed 35 Iraqi attackers in the Army’s first bayonet charge since the Falklands War 22 years ago. The fearless Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders stormed rebel positions after being ambushed and pinned down.
Despite being outnumbered five to one, they suffered only three minor wounds in the hand-to-hand fighting near the city of Amara.
The battle erupted after Land Rovers carrying 20 Argylls came under attack on a highway.
After radioing for back-up, they fixed bayonets and charged at 100 rebels using tactics learned in drills.
When the fighting ended bodies lay all over the highway — and more were floating in a nearby river. Nine rebels were captured.
An Army spokesman said: “This was an intense engagement.”
The last bayonet charge was by the Scots Guards and the Paras against Argentinian positions.
Heres an account from that very enagement in 1982 (very close to the magic 1985)
Quote[/b] ]Now in phase three, RF Coy is able to come up, although the battle is far from over. With 3 Platoon giving covering fire, Number 1 and Lt Lawrence's 3 Platoon continue the assault on the eastern end, again using the MAW's and LAW's, but also moving forward in small groups taking positions with grenades and bayonets. Eventually around 8.15 am and well after dawn, Tumbledown is in the Scots Guard's hands after fighting probably the best Argentine unit and losing eight men and the Royal Engineer.
http://www.naval-history.net/F58tumbledown.htm
More from the iraq war. Here a U.S. military representative describes (contemptuosly) the tactics of the enemy forces.
Quote[/b] ] Helping Flush Insurgents From Western Iraq: ... army is still running around with bayonets at the end of their rifles
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=....&q=http (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=U&start=6&q=http://debbyestratigacos.mu.nu/archives/cat_iraq.html&e=9801)
2003 (Although of course his own forces are still known do the same thing too).
Quote[/b] ]US Soldiers are now dealing with demonstrations in Baghdad by standing in lines with M-16s raised, with bayonets attached
http://www.warblogging.com/archives/000670.php
They aren't standard equipment for a joke.
So maybe a "fix bayonets" order and also a "charge" order to go with it.
The adrenalin and aggression of fighting like that must be incredible. I bet they were all screaming.
How exciting would it be to defeat an enemy that way in Flashpoint?
Bayonets would be the ultimate humiliation kill and would make for some good bayonet battles. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
If the limitation on controlable squad members is to do with the "F" keys, then we should be allright if we had a key(F1 anyone) that once cliked in at the same time as the other unit key, would select a unit that is over 12.
Now saying that, the "F1","F2","F3","F4","F5","F6",
"F7","F8","F9", and "F10" keys should stay as they are now, then use "F11" to acces the next unit, so if you press "F11" and "F1" at the same time, you should be able to select unit 11, if you press "F11" and "F6" for example, you would be selecting unit 16.
Regards.
@<hidden>
If the limitation on controlable squad members is to do with the "F" keys, then we should be allright if we had a key(F1 anyone) that once cliked in at the same time as the other unit key, would select a unit that is over 12.
Now saying that, the "F1","F2","F3","F4","F5","F6",
"F7","F8","F9", and "F10" keys should stay as they are now, then use "F11" to acces the next unit, so if you press "F11" and "F1" at the same time, you should be able to select unit 11, if you press "F11" and "F6" for example, you would be selecting unit 16.
Regards.
@<hidden>
realy bright ideea! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif
As RUKH mentioned, commanding a squad seems to be best done by voice commands. Player actions remain to be best done by keyboard or mouse , as usual.
As still posted , on behalf of the microsoft speech SDK and a small editable plugin , OFP in the present state, still can command squads by voice commands. There is a minor limitation as some command numbers are organized dynamically by the OFP resource. If those are delivered by AA to the speech engine, one really commands as one speeks.
As said, one still can it check out, which gives a quite other dimension in the speed and foregoing at CQB missions for instance.
Espectro
Jun 5 2005, 12:43
I get that close everytime I enter a building for example.
Or storm a trench or defended fortification.
(I don't want to put down my rifle and pick up a little spade, it's a bit under powered compared to a 30 round fully automatic spear tipped assault rifle).
How many times have you died reloading or drawing a secondary weapon in CQB?
To my knowledge a bayonet charge was last used in combat no earlier than May of 2004.
Quote[/b] ]SCOTTISH troops fixed bayonets and fought hand to hand with a Shi’ite militia in southern Iraq in one of their fiercest clashes since the war was declared more than a year ago, it was reported last night.
Soldiers from the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders mounted what were described as "classic infantry assaults" on firing and mortar positions held by more than 100 fighters loyal to the outlawed cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, according to military sources.
<...>
"It was very bloody and it was difficult to count all their dead," one source was quoted as saying. "There were bodies floating in the river."
The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders were drawn into the fighting when soldiers in two Land-Rovers were ambushed on Friday afternoon about 15 miles east of the city of Amara. The soldiers escaped, only to be ambushed a second time by a larger group of militia, armed with machine-guns, rocket-propelled grenades and mortars.
Reinforcements were summoned from the Princess of Wales’s Royal Regiment at a base nearby. "There was some pretty fierce hand-to-hand fighting with bayonets fixed," the source added. "There were some classic assaults on mortar positions held by the al-Sadr forces."
Official spokesman Major Ian Clooney confirmed the Mehdi army "took a pretty heavy knocking", but refused to specify tactics. "This was certainly an intense engagement," he added....
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2005/04/highlanders_fix.html
more sensationally retold in The Sun newspaper.
Quote[/b] ]
Bayonet Brits kill 35 rebels
The Sun (UK) ^ | 5/16/04 | Unattributed
----------------------------------------------
OUTNUMBERED British soldiers killed 35 Iraqi attackers in the Army’s first bayonet charge since the Falklands War 22 years ago. The fearless Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders stormed rebel positions after being ambushed and pinned down.
Despite being outnumbered five to one, they suffered only three minor wounds in the hand-to-hand fighting near the city of Amara.
The battle erupted after Land Rovers carrying 20 Argylls came under attack on a highway.
After radioing for back-up, they fixed bayonets and charged at 100 rebels using tactics learned in drills.
When the fighting ended bodies lay all over the highway — and more were floating in a nearby river. Nine rebels were captured.
An Army spokesman said: “This was an intense engagement.”
The last bayonet charge was by the Scots Guards and the Paras against Argentinian positions.
Heres an account from that very enagement in 1982 (very close to the magic 1985)
Quote[/b] ]Now in phase three, RF Coy is able to come up, although the battle is far from over. With 3 Platoon giving covering fire, Number 1 and Lt Lawrence's 3 Platoon continue the assault on the eastern end, again using the MAW's and LAW's, but also moving forward in small groups taking positions with grenades and bayonets. Eventually around 8.15 am and well after dawn, Tumbledown is in the Scots Guard's hands after fighting probably the best Argentine unit and losing eight men and the Royal Engineer.
http://www.naval-history.net/F58tumbledown.htm
More from the iraq war. Here a U.S. military representative describes (contemptuosly) the tactics of the enemy forces.
Quote[/b] ] Helping Flush Insurgents From Western Iraq: ... army is still running around with bayonets at the end of their rifles
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=....&q=http (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=U&start=6&q=http://debbyestratigacos.mu.nu/archives/cat_iraq.html&e=9801)
2003 (Although of course his own forces are still known do the same thing too).
Quote[/b] ]US Soldiers are now dealing with demonstrations in Baghdad by standing in lines with M-16s raised, with bayonets attached
http://www.warblogging.com/archives/000670.php
They aren't standard equipment for a joke.
So maybe a "fix bayonets" order and also a "charge" order to go with it.
The adrenalin and aggression of fighting like that must be incredible. I bet they were all screaming.
How exciting would it be to defeat an enemy that way in Flashpoint?
Very rarely have i been killed while reloading at close combat... but then again, i never storm a building with only 3 rounds in my weapon http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
What im saying is, bayonets would be cool, yes... but its very low on MY priority list, since i dont think i will ever be using it... Im sure i wont miss it if its not there.
IMO there's no need for bayonets in ArAs.
Mabye something for "OFP2"? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rock.gif
killing with your bare hands strikes me as emotionally difficult.
I think a bayonet charge should have an associated sound effect like screaming or shouting some sort of nonsence battlecry.
killing with your bare hands strikes me as emotionally difficult.
I think a bayonet charge should have an associated sound effect like screaming or shouting some sort of nonsence battlecry.
yes, killing with bar hands, knife,bayonet,plastic bag(anyone manhunt?) its so primal and animalic but that will increase the game atmosphere. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
If the limitation on controlable squad members is to do with the "F" keys, then we should be allright if we had a key(F1 anyone) that once cliked in at the same time as the other unit key, would select a unit that is over 12.
Now saying that, the "F1","F2","F3","F4","F5","F6",
"F7","F8","F9", and "F10" keys should stay as they are now, then use "F11" to acces the next unit, so if you press "F11" and "F1" at the same time, you should be able to select unit 11, if you press "F11" and "F6" for example, you would be selecting unit 16.
Regards.
@<hidden>
IMO, OFP players already mirco-manage their squads. In general, the military works by a rule of fours. There are rarely more then four soldiers directly controlled by one soldiers. For example:
Company Commander: 4 Platoon Leaders (plus XO & 1SG)
Platoon Leader (& PSG): 4 Squad Leaders
Squad Leader: 2 or 3 Team Leaders
Team Leader: 3 or 4 soldiers
I know this next comment might provoke some, but who truly utilizes every soldier when they play with a 12 soldier squad? Especially when that squad is dismounted light infantry in contact. Look at how one uses a 12 player squad, and contrast it with the player who uses the smaller 3 or 4 character squad. Its the same condition we see when one plays a RTS and only has a few troops remaining on screen.
I would like to see ArAs turn into something where a squad leader can latch together and hotkey groups (fireteams) together on the fly. Semi-intelligent fireteams controlled with the "F#" series might be better controlled, especially when on the offense.
On the other hand, of course players want to control of every member. But under certain conditions. When I'm on the defense, or in ambush, I truly emplace each and every soldier and major weapon system.
Dark Soldier
Jun 6 2005, 13:58
IMO, OFP players already mirco-manage their squads. In general, the military works by a rule of fours. There are rarely more then four soldiers directly controlled by one soldiers. For example:
Company Commander: 4 Platoon Leaders (plus XO & 1SG)
Platoon Leader (& PSG): 4 Squad Leaders
Squad Leader: 2 or 3 Team Leaders
Team Leader: 3 or 4 soldiers
Hehe... looks like someone watched too many Delta Force or SEAL movies :-)
Na, what I mean is that regular army squads usually consist of 5 to 10 people, only special forces use 4 man squads (guess where they copied it from... nazi germany).
So Ceros idea looks pretty nice to me.
One could use F1-F8 for direct assignment and then F9-F12 as multipliers. In the right combination, u can adress up to 8*16=128 units (platoon/company size ?). Or you make that 'limit' between F8 / F9 dynamic, eg. you have only 11 soldiers, you can use F1-F11 for assignment, if you have 24 soldiers, use F1-F10 etc...
IMO, OFP players already mirco-manage their squads. In general, the military works by a rule of fours. There are rarely more then four soldiers directly controlled by one soldiers. For example:
Company Commander: 4 Platoon Leaders (plus XO & 1SG)
Platoon Leader (& PSG): 4 Squad Leaders
Squad Leader: 2 or 3 Team Leaders
Team Leader: 3 or 4 soldiers
Hehe... looks like someone watched too many Delta Force or SEAL movies :-)
Na, what I mean is that regular army squads usually consist of 5 to 10 people, only special forces use 4 man squads (guess where they copied it from... nazi germany).
I'm in the US Army Dark Soldier...
The standard dismounted light infantry squad consists of approximately nine soldiers:
One Squad Leader (SL)
Two Team Leaders (TL)
Two M203 Grenadiers
Two SAW Gunners
Two Riflemen
What I'm saying is that if the player is acting as a SL, then he would control semi-intelligent AI TLs, who in turn control their fireteams. I would prefer to see some functions delegated (as an option), especially when players are in the thick of things.
With this mindset, it would be easier for players to control larger groups thru delegation. Imagine acting as a platoon leader or platoon sergeant, but having only four squad leaders appear on your roster. How many of us has wished we could have squad leaders report to a player when we're building missions in the editor?
Sputnik Monroe
Jun 7 2005, 03:22
I'd like to see it based on the chain of command as TA-50 has pointed out.
If you're a section leader you have a handful of men under your command but you follow a leader, like in flashpoint now when your not the squad leader difference is you have 4 people to vector to where you are ordered.
Example1: In Flashpoint now, the commander will tell you stuff like 3 (that’s you) target machine gunner 400, and the machine gunner at 3 o'clock 400 is highlighted for you. So you go after him.
What I'm hoping is that in Alcoholics Anonymous it'll be broken down into grunt, section leader, Squad leader, platoon leader, Company, battalion. I'll use the above example again but instead I'll change the level in the chain of command. Keep in mind Example1 is as a grunt.
Example2 Section leader: Section leader 2 (that’s you) target machine gunner 3 o'clock 400. You order your handful of men to attack.
Example3 Squad leader: Sgt attack contacts at 3 o'clock. You order your section leaders accordingly.
Example4 Platoon leader: Ltn engage enemy forces at IA42. You order your Squad leaders.
Basically you really only have about 4 people that your directly issuing orders to at any given time. It would be handy to include some optional micro management for if you want to use it. For example you're a platoon leader and you end up ordering a rifle man in delta squad section 3 to get M21 from Ammo crate.
Probably more something for game two when it comes out. Still it would be neat if it at least would go up to platoon leader in this one.
@<hidden> Monroe:
Exactly!
ryankaplan
Jun 10 2005, 23:14
a very good representation of this can be found in the game brothers in arms. A way i would prefer is as following:
-Keep the 12 man squad with the original f1-f12 keys.
-Keep the ability to create fireteams the same way (white, red, etc)
-However, when you choose the squad leader of a certain team, (eg. 2 of 2,3,4,5) and tell him to move, target or engage, he should do so with his fireteam. So if you say "2 attack soldier 2 o'clock" all his team will move to do so. This way you have to go through the team menu again.
-If you wish to command a lower ranked unit in a fireteam, you can still select him and tell him to do individual things, when he completes his orders (other than move and hold which cannot be completed) he would return back to his fireteam.
The Important thing however will be the squad leader ai's ability to command, which could maybe change according to rank.
I do agree with whoever said this is probably something for ofp2 rather than ArAs.
Crassus
Jun 11 2005, 00:22
Quote[/b] ]-Keep the 12 man squad with the original f1-f12 keys.
I would have to disagree with this, as this does not allow the modelling of squads witch are just a bit larger than 12, e.g. the U.S. Marine rifle squad consists of 13 men, three fire teams of four men each. Also, the original F1-F12 setup includes having an icon of the player's soldier (why is it there at all?), and leaves a key (F1) unused. Instead, that key could be for that 13th Marine.
What if, instead of that:
The Mission Editor would have ready-made Groups, e.g. British Army rifle squad/section, U.S. Marine rifle squad, etc. as is available right now (though of course that 13th man issue is fixed). These groups would be hardcoded (via config, etc.) to automatically create the properly manned fire teams. He wont have to create the teams.
Quote[/b] ]-However, when you choose the squad leader of a certain team, (eg. 2 of 2,3,4,5) and tell him to move, target or engage, he should do so with his fireteam. So if you say "2 attack soldier 2 o'clock" all his team will move to do so. This way you have to go through the team menu again.
-If you wish to command a lower ranked unit in a fireteam, you can still select him and tell him to do individual things, when he completes his orders (other than move and hold which cannot be completed) he would return back to his fireteam.
Did you ever try out Full Spectrum Warrior? The set-up is just about as you suggest. In that, you controlled the movement and fires of the entire team, by cycling from one team to another via the Tab key. (Though your soldier was never really in-game; your views were that of whichever fire team you were directly in control of). I thought, if combined with the ability to control each individual soldier when necessary, as you suggested, it would perhaps be the perfect set-up for OFP 2.
But what about attachment to the player's squad? Say your squad is tasked with taking out a strongpoint, and your platoon leader has attached a SMAW or Javelin team to you. Do you think you should control only any attached team's fires and movements, or the individual soldiers as well?
ryankaplan
Jun 11 2005, 23:39
your idea about getting rid of 1 as the player is a good idea.
hmmm...
Quote[/b] ]But what about attachment to the player's squad? Say your squad is tasked with taking out a strongpoint, and your platoon leader has attached a SMAW or Javelin team to you. Do you think you should control only any attached team's fires and movements, or the individual soldiers as well?
hmmm....i'm not sure how this would work in the real army...but i am supposing if the attachment is a TEAM and you're the leader of a squad, it's most likely you have higher rank than him and can order all of them around...including splitting them up...i think...maybe ta50 would be able to answer that better since he says he's in the army
Crassus
Jun 12 2005, 01:51
Yes, and I'm a former U.S. Marine.
I'm just soliciting opinions as to whether the player should be allowed complete control of the attached team. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif
Well if nothing else, all this is a nice thought exercise.
Yeah, I agree with the idea that players should be able to control both the fireteam while having the option to move individual units.
If the arrangement of AI in teams is hardcoded one way or another, I think it'd turn alot of people off.
ryankaplan
Jun 12 2005, 11:33
@<hidden> told you what i thought about that already, but if you want me to make it really clear...yes, i beleive you should have complete control over the attached team. That is maybe unless, if the attached team leader is same rank as you(he wouldn't be higher than you, otherwise he'd take command), then, i reckon you should only be allowed to command the team.
benreeper
Jun 12 2005, 16:30
As this game is an update to OFP, I believe squad control will be similiar to what we have now. I would not expect anything different until OFP2.
What I would like now is more scripting options so that I can do more with what I have. For instance: being able to script the team color members assignment before the map loads and assigning that team to a hotkey. Also, allow the highest ranking team member control over that team.
--Ben
Quote[/b] ]F1 thru F-12 and the numeric keys beneath, limited squad sizes to only twelve members. Not to mention the seperate action menu.
don't forget a section is only 8-10 members big. An officer or NCO who is on the battlefield fighting would not have command over eveyone else in the AO.
Maybe:
f1-f12 = selects section unit
CTRL f1-f12 selects section
ALT f1-f12 selects platoon
SHIFT f1-f12 selects blah blah blah....
When you switch from a larger level (Company/battalion, whatever), The selection stays until you select another on that level, this way when you select down to the section level, you can just use the f1 -12 keys if you have many individual units to command. But if you select a higher level of command, the level officer attempts to follow your orders with it's AI.
Also, How about acting like a squad leader, have a key to allow selection of units by pointing at them?
I.E.: Ctrl + click on some units, click on enemy/location/vehicle and away they go... Like in real life?
Maybe:
f1-f12 = selects section unit
CTRL f1-f12 selects section
ALT f1-f12 selects platoon
SHIFT f1-f12 selects blah blah blah....
When you switch from a larger level (Company/battalion, whatever), The selection stays until you select another on that level, this way when you select down to the section level, you can just use the f1 -12 keys if you have many individual units to command. But if you select a higher level of command, the level officer attempts to follow your orders with it's AI.
Also, How about acting like a squad leader, have a key to allow selection of units by pointing at them?
I.E.: Ctrl + click on some units, click on enemy/location/vehicle and away they go... Like in real life?
I wouldn't really want to press Alt+F4 http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif
Crassus
Jun 14 2005, 12:16
@<hidden>, Scrub: Actually, what I meant by hardcoded was scripting done by the mission editor and the game's user interface (UI). Your hardcoded U.S. Army rifle squad, when placed in-game, would automatically bring up in-game, a streamlined UI for squad control. (Say, you press and hold and key to bring up the squad interface, which displays two icons/buttons for each of your fire teams...Release the key, the UI disappears.)
This lends itself better to control of higher command, platoon, company, etc.
A Battle Management System (BMS) will help to control severals squad. It´s another MAP with buttons to call artillary, air support, transport etc. BMS will help to play strategic games like CTI. Maybe ArAs became a RST like Fleet Commander if we have good ship´s.
G-LOC
Although OFP's method of controlling members of the player's squad has stood the test of time, I admit I was intimidated by it. What's more, the squad control system, using both F1 thru F-12 and the numeric keys beneath, limited squad sizes to only twelve members. Not to mention the seperate action menu.
Scripting has worked around these limits, and we've seen products like the Chain of Command interface and General Barron's real-life combat patrol come out of the community. But I'm just wondering what BIS will have come out of the box.
So will ArAs move away from OFP squad control and perform like games like Full Spectrum Warrior and Brothers in Arms: with their contact sensitive point-and-click interface? Or perhaps Ghost Recon 2 & 3, with their map-like interface? Or will ArAs retain a revamped version of OFP interface?
Personally, I'm a fan of FSW's and Brothers in Arms (semi-) intelligent AI squad members who react to contacts in a realistic manner, and are able to be quickly moved about with the click of a mouse.
Any comments?
i hope they never incorporate anything with ghost recon 2 or 3 in this game
they totally wrecked ghost recon with ghost recon 2. its lost its sim feel.
ghost recon stay with ghost recon and as for FSW its a different game. Your squad members in that game are pretty dumb. wont shoot unles u tell them even though their lives depended on it. in the end the gameplay became pretty boring.
Why not something simple but still similar to OFP's original system, F1-12 selects the group you want to command, and F1-12 again selects the units within that group. Pressing just F3 once will command the entire group 3 to move or do something, but pressing F3 > F4 F5 F6 will command 4, 5, and 6 in that group. That allows you to command up to 144 units with only one extra menu and button to press. (I think commanding more units than that in the heat of battle would be useless, larger sections should use a larger map-based command system)
I dont think there will be more than 1 group of 12 soliders for the player to control. Just as in OFP.
After all, this is not OFP2. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
Oh http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/banghead.gif For some reason I thought this was an OFP2 suggestions thread (with all the talk of completely changing the squad control system, which would only be possible for ofp2 anyway)
Consider this an ofp2 suggestion then!
ollyboy
Jun 26 2005, 00:45
i want bayonets make the game more violent and thats what i like, like cutting head of people, when headshot u see brain n stuff... like soldier of fortrune 2 http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/inlove.gif
ryankaplan
Jun 26 2005, 12:45
lol, cutting people's heads of with bayonets... I'm sure alot of the things you want will be implemented in ofp2 ollyboy. I really doubt that's going to happen in AA, Although neither is our squad control ideas http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif
ps. could a forum mod move this topic to OFP2 forum? maybe that way it would make more sense...
One thing I really want to see is a supress command. Like; "3, put supressive fire at De22". If a human can do it in a coop mission, then the AI should be able to do the same in singleplayer, right? I think this would be quite easy to implent and it wouldnt change the game balance or structure very much. Could be something like this; just hold alt+ctrl and press where you want the squad/unit to fire.
And yes, I know its been mentioned before.
Quote[/b] ]Ti0n3r Posted on June 27 2005,16:58
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One thing I really want to see is a supress command. Like; "3, put supressive fire at De22". If a human can do it in a coop mission, then the AI should be able to do the same in singleplayer, right? I think this would be quite easy to implent and it wouldnt change the game balance or structure very much. Could be something like this; just hold alt+ctrl and press where you want the squad/unit to fire.
And yes, I know its been mentioned before.
For AI to give the command, it could be a question of the ratio of enemy to good guys, if they are engaged, and the unit's current position. If they don't see you on a bare hillside, you wouldn't want to make yourself known. Same can be said for causing an AI tank to go into difilade using LOS to an area and detecting the roll of the terrain.
stegman
Jul 15 2005, 16:34
I've just played a demo of Brothers in Arms. That had a pretty good squad control funtion, controlled only with the right button (and shift to switch to the second fire team).
Very simple but very efective, still felt like your in command and didn't detract from the game while i was looking around my keyboard for the right units.
...(f2,f4,f8...{!get blown up by T80!}...ever happen to any one else?)...
Come on, the BiA command system wasnt very good and is certainly something that most of us dont want to see in Armed Assault. The current command system is close to perfect. It just need some tweaking.
I've just played a demo of Brothers in Arms. That had a pretty good squad control funtion, controlled only with the right button (and shift to switch to the second fire team).
Very simple but very efective, still felt like your in command and didn't detract from the game while i was looking around my keyboard for the right units.
...(f2,f4,f8...{!get blown up by T80!}...ever happen to any one else?)...
Yeah , it happened a lot...the reason why I never play as commander, it's too slow for me with all those submenus.
I want a sensitive point-and-click interface like BIA & FSW, it's very effective and I don't see the reason why it can't be used with unscripted AI. (if they know how to use cover and suppression)
They can still keep the menus for micro-management, but there should be a faster way to select a predefined team.
Why don't they use the old fashion rts style?
Use F1 - F12 to select the guys, or select them with the mouse in command view, press CTRL + 1-10 to define a team, then press 1 to select team1, 2 to select team 2 and so on...
Also, the action menu...
Ok, I 'm used to it now, but why can't we have a simple keystroke to drop our weapon, put our weapon on back, etc...
That action menu should be as clean as possible imo.
I'd like to see... er make that hear, the radio voices changed. Perhaps each unit could shout "Roger!", while within earshot instead of every player having a radio, which I guess is a litte unrealistic at times? I don't know.
Also, I get tired of hearing "Seven!!! Go to!!! Bush!!! 4 o'clock!!!!" what I mean is that my orders are screamed at the soldiers, even though we're just getting in a truck. Perhaps the intensity of the voices could increase with danger? Perhaps just two levels instead of one.
That would be nice.
Thank you and good bye.
it'd be nice if we could set up our formations as tight (for close combat) and loose (for ranged combat) to better benefit the squad in whatever situation they should be in
also...i had an idea for a fully functional chain of command system, but it would take a lot of work from the devs, basicly the ranks range from private to general, and each rank can only directly command the rank under him who do the same till we get to the squads who actually do the fighting, so basicly the Major tells the 4 guys below him he wants that town secure, they in turn tell tell the squad leaders to attack the town in a sort of vee formation, and the 4 squad leaders tell the fire time leaders...well....you get the idea, anyways in the mission editor we could set up objective triggers with priority levels, so the ai general would focus sending more men to that particular objective, and similar to the coin dynamic campaign we could attach units to squads as "support units" who would come to the aid of the squad when commanded and reinforcement units who would be brought in by choppers and boats to the main base when heavy losses occur, and the amount of reinforcements you get depends on how the campaign is going, anyways the what i imagine, is one gigantic, epic battle for this island taking place in real time, with the player able to do whatever he pleases, but also, smaller, special ops style missions could be made and supporting units could be called in without the need of any scripting whatsoever, anyways, just an idea
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