two operation flashpoint 2s?

[ebns72]

According to the article at ofp.info (http://www.ofp.info), CM will publish a game called "Operation flashpoint 2" SEPARATE from the current BIS sequal. Though this is entirely unofficial, this angers me quite a bit...so basically it seems they have dumped BIS and are trying to profit off the name. I hope this isn't true http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/sad_o.gif This is going to cause a lot of problems and community division if it is true, and who knows what the game will turn out to be. If OFP2 is developed by a different studio, what changes will this sequel bring? Will it just be a prettier ofp or will it truly complete with BIS's title for the changes we have been looking for?

Zzzz over at This thread (http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52283&page=5&pp=10) says

"Operation Flashpoint fans are hardcore military fans....they are the people that love realism, decent core gameplay and an involving storyline....we know that. Now to make a BF42 clone for the Flashpoint community which has built up over the lat 5 years would be the most inappropriate thing a company could do, plus insulting to top it off. Flashpoint 2 will be a Flashpoint game for Flashpoint fans, period.

We want to bring the game on to the next generation of realism and immersiveness. We have alot of feedback from the community about what they want to see in the game and this has been incorporated in our Design and Development process and we will deliver on the promise."

IMO, I think what hardcore flashpoint fans want is a sequel from BIS. But who knows, the "other" flashpoint2 could be a damn nice game as well. We will have to see how it goes.

[ExtracTioN]

Competition is good http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[low light]

Too much cometition can be bad also...if games are rushed through because one publisher is ready to release and another isn't, then the quality of the game suffers. I hope that this won't be the case. Besides I feel the BIS has a head start on their Games develeopment. Their intimate relationship with the community is likely to pay of. Whereas CM is likely to hive of information and attempt a copy...not all copies are as good as the original.

We shall just have to wait and see. I'm sure there will be a battle created somewhere with regard to the loyalty of the community.

I wish both teams well, (though I would prefer a BIS product...due to loyalty http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif )

[ebns72]

Well, I know competition is good...but when its 2 developers both trying to make the same game, it gets confusing.

[low light]

I am just wondering what exactly are CM going to do with their game that will out do the BIS version! It's going to have to be somewhat revolutionary to really make people purchase their game. It's going to be very interesting to watch what happens.

[Antichrist]

I don't believe that Codemasters have balls to do something like that. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[low light]

@<hidden>: From the look of the Press Release, it seems to me that CM have already put their balls on the table&#33;  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

I just hope something good comes out of all this. BIS have the Intellectual Property rights on the games, but CM have the sequel rights to the Name...it would make sense to co-operate and get a win-win situation, but I guess we don&#39;t know all the details and therefore can only sit here and speculate as to what will/might happen, driving ourselves crazy over a period of 1.5 to 2 years while these games are developed. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif

It could all be a big market ploy from both sides, but then it would be some what misleading and confusing, creating apathy for the product, so I guess that would rule that theory out.

[gonk]

I don&#39;t believe that Codemasters have balls to do something like that.  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
Thats it antagonise them...lol. Let the battle begin. Looks like a game of CTG.... Capture the Game.

[CAPAIRMAN]

I&#39;m goin with the BIS version. Noone else can do flashpoint. Nuff said.

[raedor]

yes, let&#39;s see what there comes. i think the BIS game will be way better, but you never know... so this competition is good, the possibility to get a really great game is higher http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[Blink Dog]

Codemasters owns the trademark "Operation Flashpoint" so they can make an ofp 2 if they wish.

The name of the game is not important though as I will prob purchase all of BIS&#39;s games and I will prob buy alot of Codemasters titles, Colin McRae 04+05 are my fav Xbox titles right now.

Competition is a good thing, it keeps developers on their toes and creates cool new ideas. As an example I also purchased Soldner Secret wars, it&#39;s really buggy but it has some nice features like destructable buildings and an even larger "map" than Flashpoint. Without competition we would have a sort of gaming communism where things are slow to improve.

[DBR_ONIX]

Staight link to OFP.info news item (http://ofp.gamezone.cz/index.php?showthis=8416)
I had to read this twice when I saw it.. Codemasters are giving the name OFP2 to some other publisher. Really, no.. Give it to BI, if nothing else..

Well this is where our money driven world has lead Codemasters, it seems http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif...
- Ben
Edit : The biggest problem IMO is that people going to out buy what they think (Game-content wise, not name) is Armed Assault, turns out to be a FPS Action Me-Versus-The-World game, and comes to the conculsion "Yuk, glad I didn&#39;t waste my money on OFP1". If Codemasters are using OFP2, what will the game after Armed Assault (The amazing graphics one) be called? Armed Assault 2?

[USSRsniper]

hmm where was Codemaster when there wasnt any official screenshots.. but when there was they poped up http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[ExtracTioN]

I said competition is good but offcourse I am only going to buy the one that is made by BIS cause:
-OFP1 is made by BIS.
-BIS is allways listening to us they know what we want.
-BIS is so good that they release patches to make their game bug free.
-If you PM one of the developers or mail them you allways get a reply.
Simply they rock http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

Why is CM now saying they will look for a developer to make OFP2 simple they have told on their site + some interviews that they will be the publisher of OFP2 and if they now tell they have broked up with BIS and that OFP2 wont be released under CM they get a bad name so they simply look for another developer or allready have one that makes a OFP2 game with another engine and now the new developer of CM and BIS will try to make their own game better and that is only good for us http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[Stealth3]

http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif This will confuse a lot of people. Especially the ones not around the community or following the game. If codemaster&#39;s "OFP2" will be shitty, the reputation of BIS&#39;s "OFP2" will also go down. Remember that the average Joe doesn&#39;t follow the OFP news.

The competition will come down to motivation, money, and technology. No two games will every be alike, so there will be some differences and one of the two companies will get a lot of money from the game, and one will lose a lot, unless the quality is super good for both

[macguba]

We published this news at ofpec last Friday. (http://www.ofpec.com/intel/index.php?a=show&newsID=1048&catID=5)   This is just confirmation of what we already thought.  

OFPEC article and brief comparison of the two OFP2s. (http://www.ofpec.com/intel/index.php?a=show&newsID=1055&catID=5)

[ExtracTioN]

And to support the developers please dont buy a copy of a game not only BIS titles but for every game if most people gets coppies of games than the developers slowly die.
Just my 2 cents http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[InqWiper]

If CM tries to make OFP2 they are really pathetic. The CM version would obviously not be as good as the BIS version. BIS makes a very nice realistic game and CM tries to do it too but the result will not be as good. Who will buy the CM version? Everyone who wants a good OFP2 will buy the BIS version because the community is loyal to BIS and the BIS version will be better. The CS kids wont buy OFP2 from CM because there is not enough running around and shooting. If you want to sell a game dont try to develop a lesser version of another game.

Im really tired but I hope its possible to understand about what I tried to say.

I dont think BIS needs competition to drive them. I belive they are driven by the urge to create a very nice sequal and again make a game that far surpasses any previous games. I think BIS should just ignore CM and release theire game in theire own time because they have nothing to fear if they just do what they always do http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

And dont go public with too much since CM will probably try to copy as much as they can http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[cervomix]

Quote[/b] ]We published this news at ofpec last Friday. This is just confirmation of what we already thought.

OFP.info posted it last friday too Macguba,
look here (http://ofp.gamezone.cz/index.php?showthis=8352&newlang=eng). http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[Acecombat]

To hell with that , who are Codemasters to steal the damn OFP franchise just because they have the name trademarked.

Who are they to know what we want ? Their role is nothing more then donkey work as far as i am concerend , they distribute not make or dictate to studios(devs) what needs making thats just BS.

Where did the community give them feedback over what they want? People post and give feedback at BIS forums not Codemasters forums :roll:

Screw codemaster go ahead damnit make a new game and i wont buy it. And i know plenty wouldnt. The only reason we bought OFP was because BIS made it was their vision/work not anyone elses.

And for those saying all this is good in the name of competition must be high on something .... a developer with a known dis regard for not doing things for money and doing it for the passion dont need no competition from some unknown company whom some distributor with no clue us gonna hire http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/blues.gif

[ebns72]

wait a second....cm doesn&#39;t have rights to the poseidon engine, do they? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[ExtracTioN]

If CM tries to make OFP2 they are really pathetic. The CM version would obviously not be as good as the BIS version. BIS makes a very nice realistic game and CM tries to do it too but the result will not be as good. Who will buy the CM version? Everyone who wants a good OFP2 will buy the BIS version because the community is loyal to BIS and the BIS version will be better. The CS kids wont buy OFP2 from CM because there is not enough running around and shooting. If you want to sell a game dont try to develop a lesser version of another game.

Im really tired but I hope its possible to understand about what I tried to say.

I dont think BIS needs competition to drive them. I belive they are driven by the urge to create a very nice sequal and again make a game that far surpasses any previous games. I think BIS should just ignore CM and release theire game in theire own time because they have nothing to fear if they just do what they always do http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

And dont go public with too much since CM will probably try to copy as much as they can  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif
I am going to buy both Armed Assault and Armed Assault 2 developed by BIS for 1000%
And going to watch what the new developer of CM will come if it looks nice and if there will be a demo of it I am going to play it and if I like it I buy that one too (why not if it is going to be a nice game)
Maybe you never know the new developer of CM comes with a better game than BIS but I doubt it cause BIS works now 3 to 4 years on OFP2 and developer of CM maybe not even started or use one of their engines or maybe they cooperate with BIS to use BIS new engine for their own OFP2.
Also you never know maybe over a few days, weeks or months BIS and CM will come together again you never know what tommorow happens http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[Stealth3]

Quote[/b] ]BIS&#39;s "OFP2" CM&#39;s OFP2
Format: DVD CD
Release: 2006 Q4 2006 Q2

Sad, but Codemasters want to release their "OFP2" 6 months BEFORE BIS&#39;s OFP2. This means that BIS will lose a lot of people since others dont read the news and will think that the OFP2 will be codemaster&#39;s OFP2. I doubt they will make anything good in that time, but it will be good enough to screw things up for BIS http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif

[Acro]

If the Codemasters&#39; game uses StarForce I am not buying it.
Codemaster is playing dirty here anyway. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/mad_o.gif

[da12thMonkey]

wait a second....cm doesn&#39;t have rights to the poseidon engine, do they? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
That&#39;s what I was thinking. Anyone waiting for &#39;OFP2&#39; is going to have to wait a while if the developers have to code an entire new engine and spend time debugging it. I don&#39;t know of many similar, quality engines they can just pick off the shelf and use.

Add in the fact that BIS are now extremely adept with working with this engine; having created several products based on it in various guises: I think they&#39;re probably going to produce the better of the two products, though I don&#39;t want to completely write off what CM will release before I even see it.

I suppose releasing Armed Assault before &#39;Game2&#39; will bring the publics attention to what BIS are doing, so they know there&#39;s a difference between OFP2 and Game2 when they come out.

[BigRed]

Maybe BIS could just use a different name all together like Operation Realism, Operation Desert Storm, ect.......

I think they would make a mistake to call it the same as another game. Just my 50 cents.

[Acecombat]

Quote[/b] ]Sad, but Codemasters want to release their "OFP2" 6 months BEFORE BIS&#39;s OFP2.

Ample time to make a game which can take on the BEST tactical military shooter out there and beat it , i assume*



*Forgive the sarcasm

[MATRA]

Theres no way CM could a new OFP2 from 0 in one year&#33;

They cant use the BIS engine code, so they have to get a studio that makes a full new game in 1 year http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rock.gif DUH&#33;&#33; not even some of badest games on the market takes only one year to be complete (ok this could be one of them).

A good game from CM would take at least 2 to 3 years to complete.

I think its time for Game 2 to have a name, because if CM realy starts to make a FP2 there will be much confusion with the 2 titles, and thats not healty

[Holy Smoke]

May you live interesting times... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

I&#39;ve always thought Codemasters never got a clear view of Operation Flashpoint: what it was and who was the target audience. Still wonder what they were trying to achieve with those missions that, although funny, had nothing to do with the spirit of OFP in Red Hammer. If the outcome of all this mess is Codemasters eventually publishng *something else* under the name of OFP2 there will be no doubt they failed too understand the concept of OFP CWC and its future potential.

The community, we, might buy it ("fake" OPF 2) if it has any use at all. Why not, we&#39;re into games and appreciate quality. Supposing the product meets our minimum standards, there&#39;ll be no need to boycot a developer trying to make a living.

It is not that Codemasters seems is leaving BIS, just the other way &#39;round i&#39;m afraid. Bohemia, our appreciated guys, had something very big in mind that, back in 2001, could only take the form of Cold War Crisis and soon after of VBS. Their actions, their support and their continuous development throughout all these years confirm that fact. Do you guys remember that poll Codemasters sent a while ago asking astonishing questions suggesting OPF 2 should make concessions in order to increase playability???

Nuts&#33;

Like BIS went trough all the pains they sure have had along this years to finally end developing something that was against their original concept of their Project. Enough is enough and BIS leaves Codemasters out of the picture. Honestly, those guys at Codemasters are blind if they can&#39;t see the strong ties BIS has stablished and holds with us the community from day 0
We ain&#39;t buying a name, we are buying BIS&#39; stuff. If BIS&#39; baby sold that well without being known and with that little support provided by the publisher, now they&#39;re gonna fly high. Such is life... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif


Regards

[PraetorianV]

I thought the poseidon engine was designed by BIS and USED in OFP which Codemasters has the right to the name OFP.

Anyhow I think there will be only one game coming out. These are my reasons.

1. If Codemasters were making OFP2 how come they took their name of the operationflashpoint2.com website. It should be there and BIS shouldn&#39;t because they don&#39;t have the right to the name anymore.

2. The announcement to split was made after work on OFP2 started. I don&#39;t know the details but usually the such a separation would take place AFTER they have completed any ongoing projects.

For example look at Disney and Pixar. Pixar split from Disney right before "The Incredibles" was released. It takes around 4 to 5 years to create a Disney movie, and if you look Disney and Pixar&#39;s names are both on the upcoming film "Cars" created by Pixar and published by Disney. Why? The split does not include ongoing projects already signed between the two companies. All new Pixar films created after the split are not going to be published, promoted and distributed by Disney.

3. BIS would lose money and almost a full game if they split right away. Since they were working on OFP2 which Codemasters was to publish, promote and distribute all the work on the game would belong to Codemasters since all work was under or for OFP2 which Codemasters owns.

My best guess is that OFP2 will be made by BIS and published by Codemasters and Armed Assault will be made by BIS and published either by themselves or another company. That&#39;s how I see it.

[Holy Smoke]

Maybe BIS could just use a different name all together like Operation Realism, Operation Desert Storm, ect.......

I think they would make a mistake to call it the same as another game. Just my 50 cents.
Hmmm...

OFP (Operation F*** -that- Publisher)

[SCFan42]

I think BIS should just throw out the middle-man completely and have Game 2 a downloadable buy, similar to Half-Life 2, just with better ideas from BIS for anti-piracy and such. As for ads and stuff, a good game doesn&#39;t need ads. IE I never saw an ad for HL2, and in my opinion it&#39;s a good run n gun game. And if BIS wants ads, they could probably use the VBS1 money and the money from Game 2 preorders and such to have a Superbowl ad&#33;

[Gux]

The state of the game industry today is totally fucked. Let&#39;s pray that in the future digital distrubution becomes the norm so that the money actually goes to the creative people and not the franchise brandname crazy publishers.

Personal(and pretty cynical) prediction based on usual practice in the game industry: Codemasters will release a hyped budget(they&#39;re not going to spend years in dev on this) title to milk the franchise for all it&#39;s worth. Doesn&#39;t matter if the reviews stink; the game will sell based on it&#39;s name.  

Really, no one&#39;s "evil" here, it&#39;s just the way business are conducted today. I hope BIS sets up or joins a digital distribution system for their upcoming titles. This is the future for "niche" titles.

[Stealth3]

That wont work. Ofp doesnt have the fanbase of HL2, and it might lead to complications like it did with HL2. Plus, people want the CD.

[4 IN 1]

hum since BIS have blow many ppl mind off their brain with AA and "game 2", CM finally started to shoot back, luck we will be able to sit at the front to see this "BIS vs. Codie" war, the most possible Codie would do to fight Poseidon II is with "Unreal 3", but since BIS is already a mile ahead of Codie(and BIS is not Boeing) so my money will be on BIS

damn&#33; things is started to get fun here

[Antichrist]

I really wish BIS or Codemasters came out and said what was going on and stopped hiding behind dry press releases. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[Gux]

That wont work.  Ofp doesnt have the fanbase of HL2, and it might lead to complications like it did with HL2.  Plus, people want the CD.
I disagree, it will work. Yes, regular consumers want the cd nowadays and that&#39;s what most publishers do. But the profits from that aren&#39;t that great. If you buy directly from the developer they get a whole lot more of the cake.

When Steam was announced I thought "no way in hell am I buying a digital copy of Half Life 2". I&#39;ve had the dvd in my drive maybe three or four times since I bought it on launch. I don&#39;t care about my disc or case. The only thing that&#39;s valuable to me is the cd key.  

Now of course buying a disc is much more practical for most people without broadband. That&#39;s why you have to do regular distrubution as well as digital. They would make a lot more money on the latter.

[VerySolidSnake]

I really wish BIS or Codemasters came out and said what was going on and stopped hiding behind dry press releases. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
Wait so let me get this straight.... we don&#39;t even know if this whole ordeal is 100% true?

[RalphWiggum]

I would not mind getting ArAs through internet, and same with OFP2. last time when OFPR was about to be released, a good number of local vendors had to deal with a hardcore fan(who shall remain anonymous http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif ) who kept asking if they had one in stock and would let him get one before release date.

however, this should not come at price of ignoring the tangible copy base. If it weren&#39;t for me seeing the actual OFP:CWC box in a local game store, I would not be here today.

[Cozza]

gentlemen and lady&#39;s

We have entered the Flashpoint War. (*Plays Empire theme from Star Wars*)

[KEVBAZ]

same sorta thing happend with the championship manager games, Si games split from erm the publisher cant remeber there name right now, and both companys have a "championship manager 05" out now one called football manager 05 one called champ man 05, its done no harm and football manager has done beter.

[9mm]

gentlemen and lady&#39;s

We have entered the Flashpoint War. (*Plays Empire theme from Star Wars*)
So BI press releases were just new hopes. But then Codemasters struck back, but hopefuly we&#39;ll have a return of the flashpoint.

[redface]

please don&#39;t start flaming the codemasters forums because of this. we don&#39;t want any legal action taken against BIS to stop their usage of the name "operation flashpoint 1" on websites etc. If this ends up in court, a relatively small studio like BIS can easily get ruined.

[gabgab]

What&#39;s going on now? Does CM have rights only to the name or to the new Poseidon engine, too?

Is it possible to get a clear statement from BIS and CM about this whole issue?

[LepparD]

I will buy the game thats the best, regardless if its codies or BIS. Frankly, I think BIS was really great developers a few years back, really was interested in what the fans said. The past 1˝ years, they have been quiet, and all that we ever heard of anything was from codemasters. Why is BIS still so quiet? It annoys me, and makes me feal that i ow nothing to them.

Best of luck to both companies.. 1˝ year ago, I was hoping to get an ofp2.... now we get Allied Assault and 2 ofp2s... 3 sequeals&#33;&#33; YAY&#33;&#33;

[Heatseeker]

You guys are not being realistic, CM could still come up with a good game even if not made by BIS, thats not the point.. The real issue is when they release their game the consumer will think they are buying a sequel of the same game from the same developer, BIS made Flashpoint from the ground, BIS "were" Flashpoint, CM only made a amateur, bs campaign called Red Hammer.
Wich means CM will still be making money out of BIS previous work, BIS name, concept, etc, while Bohemia will have to start all over and introduce another unknown title out there http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/sad_o.gif . This is not good, there arent many decent publishers around and the name Operation Flashpoint is a well known, reputable one, its not easy to introduce a new game in the market with guaranteed success has the competition has increased alot.
BIS needs a huge publisher capable of supporting their current work, advertising their name, technology and previous developments http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif , military simulation background and future ground breaking projects.
CM will only need to "grab" enemy in sight, splat Operation Flashpoint 2 on the cover and they have a best seller in their hands while Armed Assault and xbox version will be somewhat risky game releases.

[Warrior X™]

To all concerned, this is my opinion and i stand alone in this opinion. All consequences for my own opinion will fall on me if there will be any consequences. I am not flaming i am not insulting i am giving my own opinion. With that out of the way here comes my opinion:

I don&#39;t give a *peep* what CM does&#33; I am supporting BIS for their effort all these years with OFP1 and also their effort in providing and supporting the OFP community. As it&#39;s not only the community who kept OFP alive in these years, it&#39;s also BIS for giving us updates and lets not forget feedback of all sorts through these forums and other OFP related sites.

I would like to say a bunch of cursing words right now but will not due to fear of a raised warning level. But it clearly states what my answer is for this one&#33;&#33;&#33; http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/mad_o.gif

p.s. prepares for a raised warning level now.

[gandalf the white]

Personaly I am quite proud of my OFP discs, also, don&#39;t forget that, because the game is highly moddable, it&#39;l require more reinstalls.

I wonder who is going to develop Codies&#39;s OFP2... really http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

[Acecombat]

Ok everyone put your bets i say CM&#39;s title will be a UNREAL3 engine based shooter like AmericasArmy http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

[leaskovski]

What is this post all about eh?http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rock.gif

I can&#39;t see what the problem is here guys. Codemaster own the name Operation Flashpoint therefore BIS are not releasing a game called Operation Flashpoint 2. Easy as that. BIS are not helping maters by leaving this board as the Operation Flashpoint 2 board. That is probably what is confusing people.

Once again...

There will only be 1 game called Operation Flashpoint 2 and it will be released by Codemasters. Full stop&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

BIS have a completely seperate game that is based on the original but IS NOT called Operation Flashpoint 2.

What is so hard to understand??? Codies have got a trademark and are going to try and make as much money out of it. Its buisness people, get over it.

[MontyVCB]

u ppl need to grow up, who cares about a goddamn name http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rock.gif i don&#39;t buy a game becuase of its name. BIS are make a sequal to ofp and i will get it i could&#39;nt care less if it wern&#39;t called ofp2......

[-HUNTER-]

According to the article at ofp.info (http://www.ofp.info)so basically it seems they have dumped BIS and are trying to profit off the name. complete with BIS&#39;s title for the changes we have been looking for?

We have alot of feedback from the community about what they want to see in the game and this has been incorporated in our Design and Development process and we will deliver on the promise.


They are lying allready, THEY didnt get S..t from the "community" BIS got all the feedback they just took it&#33;

http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/mad_o.gif

Battlefield Flashpoint  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/mad_o.gif  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/mad_o.gif  URRRGHHHH&#33;

[InqWiper]

Maybe some of us should buy CMs game just to join the servers and tell everyone about the real OFP2 (maybe a few wont know) http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[FireLord]

In my opinion both games should do well, I just hope that the release dates are a good distance apart to give both games an equal chance. However, i do agree with Ace from the CM forums:


Quote[/b] ]OFP was BIS&#39;s game their vision their work , i trust them to come up with a better sequel as they know how it works. So far i havent seen a single game out there that matches it so how do you suppose we can trust a distributor who are essentially in it here for the money rather then making someone they have envisioned (like a creator) to produce such a game for a niche market?

[Placebo]

para-trooper share your opinion by all means, however please refrain from flaming and posting in an aggressive manner http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[Antichrist]

para-trooper share your opinion by all means, however please refrain from flaming and posting in an aggressive manner http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
Any comment on the topic? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[Gadger]

The same happened in the case of Sports Interactive and Eidos. Eidos had the rights to the name championship manager, SI split from Eidos and could no longer use the name for future products. SI released FM2005 earlier this year, Eidos was claiming to release a new champ manager, with a new development team 6 months before the release of SI&#39;s FM2005. 1 year of PZ magazine&#39;s running a campaign of hate against the publishers Edios, which convientley let the public know what was happening in regards to the publisher/developer situation and a 1 year delay in Edios&#39; product saw FM2005 released to critical acclaim whilst Champ Manager getting slated at every turn.

The release of AA later this year is becoming much clearer now, this release will not only drag current OFP fans over to a whole new product but also set its own fan base. Now when CM&#39;s OFP2 is eventually released only the naive will buy it (as, really, unless a whole lot of work has already been put into the game, we are not going to see it in 2006) as the released of AA2? will most likely superseed it.

The only thing that has me worried, for the future and success of BIS, is the possibility of IS&#39; Enemy in Sight (http://www.dragon-knights.info/forum/showthread.php?t=151) being used by CM as an OFP2. I don&#39;t think I need to comment on the rivalry between IS & BIS anyway (I&#39;m sure its friendly http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif). Anyhow, as your average gamer this could be perfect, 4 years waiting for another game like OFP and in the space of 24 months there is the chance that 4 turn up in the same time period. Those 4 being: - BIS&#39; AA & AA2, IS&#39; Enemy in Sight and CM&#39;s OFP2.

[Cozza]

The possibilty of CM coming up with a game by Q2 2006 make&#39;s me laugh my head off. Shows the effort they are putting in http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[Apollo]

if this is all true ,that is Codemasters owning up the tiletle Ofp2 and using it for an own product ,then i am quite mad on them for that.

Yes from a legal point of view CM has the rights and then some urge to give them credit and see what their Ofp 2 looks like,but for a designer and consumer point of view this a horrible situation.

This debacle ,especially when CM releases a Ofp2 before BIs does ,will affect BIS in sales for their upcomming sequel ,undoubtedly.Yes BIs has a staunch community ,but one has to take the community in it&#39;s right value.The forum of a site like Ofp.cz has 5000 members ,i figure BIS forum&#39;s itself have a few 10.000&#39;s + a few 10.000&#39;s lurking as guest.A topic like "OFP2 and "armed assault" - what&#39;s up?" had 40.000 views of wich many looked at the topic multiple times.Ofp sold AFAIK about 1.5million copies.The spread of information from BIs site will reach a few 100.000&#39;s of people ,but never the full 1.5Mil.
I would purely guess about 40 to 50% of the Ofp fans won&#39;t know about this debacle when a CM releases an Ofp2 ,and will rely more gaming magazine&#39;s and on the spot analyses to figure out that CM Ofp2 is not BIS it&#39;s sequel.Atleast informing the game magaine&#39;s thuraly about this debacle so that they mention it could be important.

Atleast in the marketing sector it&#39;s AFAIK a common perception that changing the brand name of something very succesfull is probably going to hurt it&#39;s sales.

Another thing is that noone of us really wants CM to produce a Ofp2 ,sure they might do a better than half assed job ,but still ,who wants to see a star wars film not directed by george Lucas or a civilization copy not touched by Sid meier? I do not want any other Dev team than Bis one&#39;s.

Yet i think that a Bis sequal to OFP that amazes anyone who reviews it will sell majorly whatever really ,BIS made their first succes withought much name or promotion neither.

In the end though ,if this story of CM owning "Operation flashpoint" and wanting to release an own sequal is true then all i can feel is that this is extrememly stupid unwise ,IMO Both BIS and CM can only be hurt by this ,but CM is bound to be hurt more ,while coorperation or for ex. allowing BIS to buy up the operation flashpoint name could be atleast profitable for both.
Obviously ,a game released by BIs with the nmae Operation flashpoint 2 that stun&#39;s everyone on seeing or testing it will ultimatly sell a excessive number of copies.

[Stealth3]

What if CM publishes Enemy in Sight with the name of OFP2. That is the only way they can get a game out by Q2 2006.
Lets not forget that BIS is a more fragile company than CM. While CM, might suffer more, it has the potential to recover, but for BIS to recover, it will be a hard strugle.
Who knows, Codies probably own the OFP engine too.

[Gadger]

What if CM publishes Enemy in Sight with the name of OFP2.  That is the only way they can get a game out by Q2 2006.  
Yep, ironically EiS is slated for a relase between Q4 2005 and Q2 2006. I made the same point a few posts up. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[Apollo]

http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif  This will confuse a lot of people.  Especially the ones not around the community or following the game.  If codemaster&#39;s "OFP2" will be shitty, the reputation of BIS&#39;s "OFP2" will also go down.  Remember that the average Joe doesn&#39;t follow the OFP news.  

The competition will come down to motivation, money, and technology.  No two games will every be alike, so there will be some differences and one of the two companies will get a lot of money from the game, and one will lose a lot, unless the quality is super good for both
Well OFP1 sold that many copies purely on it&#39;s quality ,it hadn&#39;t have a famous name then ,it was made by an unknown studio and promotion was minimal almost.

We bought Ofp1 becaus it was so original and true to our desire&#39;s of an FPS game ,if BIS make&#39;s it&#39;s future game as attracting in it&#39;s time as Ofp1 was then it will sell over the million copies easily.

If people will see astonishing ingame footage of a BIS sequel wth equally astonishing game feature&#39;s then name won&#39;t matter much to someone who even maybe never played ofp1.
But the new BIS game needs at least a bit of promotion ,if it can get a very good review from game review site&#39;s and magazine&#39;s then it will probably sell a lot regardless of other factor&#39;s.

There are also quite some fans of Ofp1 on the game magazine&#39;s staff&#39;s ,they might know the BIS-Cm story and probably would prefer BIS over CM to.If much of the gaming media is on BIS side then OFP1 true sequal will have much less problems ,however while some game reviewers prefer to praise the truly good games ,others probably wouln&#39;t mind to take some cash from a publisher to put a certain game more in the attention ,some game review site&#39;s are even blatantly the promotion guys of some publisher(s).

[Apollo]

What if CM publishes Enemy in Sight with the name of OFP2.  That is the only way they can get a game out by Q2 2006.  
Yep, ironically EiS is slated for a relase between Q4 2005 and Q2 2006. I made the same point a few posts up.  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
You think EiS could be CM&#39;s Ofp2?

Some info on EIS and it&#39;s Dev&#39;s:


Quote[/b] ]Atari has announced Enemy in Sight, an all-new PC shooter that will take place on huge battlefields of some 100 square kilometers in size during a fictitious, near-future war that will span all of Europe. The game is in development at none other than Illusion Softworks, the Czech studio responsible for such games as Vietcong, the Hidden & Dangerous series, and Mafia. Enemy in Sight will feature a goal-oriented single-player campaign--which takes place in deformable environments that can be traversed with drivable vehicles--along with team-based multiplayer modes

Hmm ,the makers of hidden and dangerous and mafia series ,not exactly a tottaly small frie in the gaming developing industry i&#39;d say ,and while some of the feature&#39;s are similar to Ofp&#39;s other&#39;s arn&#39;t (like deformable terrain) ,i figure especially since EiS is already announced under the destinct name of Enemy in Sight that therefore it won&#39;t change ,and was never ment to be an Ofp2 in name ,but it&#39;s screenshots look very similar to Ofp ,and it could be that the EiS developers have gotten some mterial of the BIS engine from CM?

[Acecombat]

Can someone confirm if Posieden is copyrighted and solely belongs to BIS? I mean VBS1 users or anyoneknow about this? I&#39;d hate it if CM has Posieden for themselves too http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif

[PainDealer]

when I first read about this I had only one thing to say: greedy bastards.

so nothing is safe on this planet?

[[ASO] Farandir]

how would vbs1 users know about that? the VBS1 engine is kind of the OFP engine. but VBS1 is developed by BIA, which is Bohemia Interactive Australia, so basically BIS, too. And they must have very close contact when you compare the contents of the OFP sequels and VBS1.

back to topic:
as said somewhere else, I can&#39;t imagine CM making something else than a copy of what OFP1 was and BIS&#39; OFP2 will be. How else could they try to live up to the statement that this game they&#39;re doing is going to be one for the flashpoint fans?

I think they have to say and show us something official before they make anymore proud statements in some forums. BIS has done that and the community obviously likes it. So if there is a competition, BIS has made at least the first points http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[Gadger]

What if CM publishes Enemy in Sight with the name of OFP2.  That is the only way they can get a game out by Q2 2006.  
Yep, ironically EiS is slated for a relase between Q4 2005 and Q2 2006. I made the same point a few posts up.  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
You think EiS could be CM&#39;s Ofp2?

Some info on EIS and it&#39;s Dev&#39;s:


Quote[/b] ]Atari has announced Enemy in Sight, an all-new PC shooter that will take place on huge battlefields of some 100 square kilometers in size during a fictitious, near-future war that will span all of Europe. The game is in development at none other than Illusion Softworks, the Czech studio responsible for such games as Vietcong, the Hidden & Dangerous series, and Mafia. Enemy in Sight will feature a goal-oriented single-player campaign--which takes place in deformable environments that can be traversed with drivable vehicles--along with team-based multiplayer modes

Hmm ,the makers of hidden and dangerous and mafia series ,not exactly a tottaly small frie in the gaming developing industry i&#39;d say ,and while some of the feature&#39;s are similar to Ofp&#39;s other&#39;s arn&#39;t (like deformable terrain) ,i figure especially since EiS is already announced under the destinct name of Enemy in Sight that therefore it won&#39;t change ,and was never ment to be an Ofp2 in name ,but it&#39;s screenshots look very similar to Ofp ,and it could be that the EiS developers have gotten some mterial of the BIS engine from CM?
That&#39;s my point Apollo, where as IS are perhaps one of the top developers in the PC Industry (H&D, Mafia, etc) Atari certaintly are not huge developers, I&#39;d atleast think of CM as bigger developers. Well, I guess time will tell.

[Cpt. Ionio]

I&#39;m praying that before CM release their bastard OFP2, that EA will take the over and cancel all of CM games that were in development. It won&#39;t be the first time that has happened with EA. I don&#39;t think that anyone who is a OFP fan will buy the CM version, we&#39;ll all buy the BIS one. Didn&#39;t CM make the "Red Hammer" campaign, and to be honest that was a fairly weak campaign compared to the "Resistance" and "Cold War Crisis".

[Garcia]

Competition is good  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
"Competition"...

there will only be one game for me, and it will be made by BIS http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[bn880]

One thing is for sure, BIS has some balls if this is all true, and it appears they also have some good plans. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif


So a toast to BIS from Mr Bn. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif


(My opinion on the Codemasters thing; I doubt anything substantial will come of it, they can _possibly_ get an army of workers, but they&#39;ll botch it all up anyway... this is about a work of art, and an idea not to be messed with. I assume it to compete only with OFP1.5 AA, not OFP2. ) http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[PainDealer]

Competition is good http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
"Competition"...

there will only be one game for me, and it will be made by BIS http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
I hear ya.

BIS are working their asses off and have already provided us with top class gaming experiences so I&#39;ll stick to what ever they have for me when ever it&#39;s ready.

[WargamingNor]

Have any of you been following this thread (http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?p=696844#post696844) over at the CM forums?

Zzzz posted this earlier today;


Quote[/b] ]Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
What credits?
CM didnt do any programming for OFP1 they were distributors only not developers , they might have had a hand in a few things but that doesnt account for 50% of all the work in that title. It took Spanel brothers years to make that up and you give half of it away to CM for just distribution and telling them to dumb down the game for the average gamer or should i say immature CS&#39;que style gamer.



Following on from these posts:

We did actually do a lot more with the game development then you give us credit for. The in game credits highlight this, we had a design team of around 8 - 10 guys working with BIS plus a whole host of QA team throughout the Development working with BIS. Add to that the marketing (and I mean selling through to retail, the public, etc) and we did do quite a bit.

Programming wise, the core engine is all BIS and was a revolution at the time....no other game matched it. Core gameplay was BIS with a little help from the Codies team. Storyline and characters, Codies again did alot of this with Marek and Viktor.

i worked on this game throughout it&#39;s time in QA, seeing the end of CWC, worked throughout Red Hammer and was even core to the Resistancee expansion once it came through our doors.

We have alot of the original team here that put the game ideas into Flashpoint and we are passionate about the game. We will endeavour to make the best game we can...that&#39;s all we can offer....whether you believe we can is another matter and there is very little I can do (at the moment at least) to persuade you otherwise. As the last poster said, only time will tell. Hopefully we won&#39;t disappoint
___
Interesting Quote of my day:

"Faults and defects every work of man must have"
- Dr Samual Johnson
------------

Miker_CLO
Community Liaison Officer
Action/Strategy Games
Codemasters

e-mail: ccc@<hidden>
For any technical problems and assistance email
custservices@<hidden>

I&#39;m really not sure what to make of anything at the moment... I&#39;m basically just waiting for CM or BIS to give us the story straight - should be interesting if we get the whole truth.

[Apollo]

Be it as it may that CM did some work at OFP to ,nevertheless the nature of their work doesnt grant them that much slack as concerning campaigns ,well ,we all can make campaigns.The Spanel brothers engineered the engine and the core wich was essentially the most selling part of this game.

This does remind me with what happened to Sid Meier&#39;s team a bit after civilization 2.Then there was a whole debacle with the publisher about the name to ,it posponed version 3 of the game and in the meantime psuedo clones came out like Civilization : call to power.
Not that these clone&#39;s were entirely bad ,there were some good elements in it to ,but consumer support was bad and probably sales to.Civiliation III however ,the new version created by Sid Meier (a saint in the strategy gaming world ) sold millions of copies in virtually no time ,becoming one of the most big gaming franchise in the industry.

But then ,long lasting fans of the Civ game&#39;s knew who was the creater of this jewel ,and like i most of these people in the 90&#39;s would have bought anything with the label on it "Sid Meier presents..." ,because anything with that label had to be just a fantastic game (thing&#39;s like pirates or Gettysburg) .About any gaming magazine out their mentioned in their reviews that civilization : call to power was not a Sid meier product when it was released ,and the large majority of the civ comunity knew what that ment.

What i mean is in the end people prefer to buy quality and most of the time&#39;s they know quality when they see it.When BIS released their OFP1 demo it paved the way for hughe sales ,because the demo was so obviously fantastic.If BIS creates an equaly innovative game in 2006 then it&#39;s demo will convince large numbers to buy it anyhow ,and this debacle will have been irrelevant.
The best way for BIS to solve this problem is simply to release a game that is as equally impressive or better as Ofp1 was at the time of its release ,and that is not nessecarily bad for the community ,though i trust BIS to be on the good way anyhow.Atleast ,the debacle about the 2 versions might inspire BIS to overload us with screens and game media.  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[wildo]

my sight is plainly set on BIS&#39;s game and not CM, CM have stooped to low this time, way to low, Red Hammer was exceptionally poor compared to Resistance, i wish the best of luck to the Spanle brothers and eveyr other employee of BIS / BIA http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif (except placebo and his damn 100Kb rule&#33; http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/mad_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif joke joke.....i believei n you to paul ;) .....)

Wildo

[Gadger]

Just another case of a struggling publisher trying to take a shit on a glorious developer.

[Stealth3]

How do you guys know that BIS didn&#39;t dumb codies, and the other way around? We want to know who dumped who.
We want to truth, but BIS thinks we cant handle the truth.

[Balschoiw]

Quote[/b] ]We want to know who dumped who.
We want to truth, but BIS thinks we cant handle the truth.
I guess we have no right to demand anything from BIS. Buying a game doesn´t take you into the CO chair...
Whatever the things are, there will be some OFP 2 from BIS . That´s what counts for me. I don´t care for all that things that are BIS and CM matter only. It´s their business, not ours. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[BravoBill]

I just want to know how Enemy in Sight figures into this. Atari is publisher. Atari is a major publisher. Just get out some of the big names they publisher here
http://www.atari.com/us/platform/pc?showall=1

That&#39;s just for PC. I seriously doubt Coddies is going to buy the game.

As for CM making a OFP2 without BIS. I just have to point to Coddies own marketing to show why I won&#39;t buy it. They don&#39;t support games. They simply make a new game every year and that&#39;s your Patch. If you&#39;ve played CM Rally you&#39;ll see exactly what I mean. We could make a patch and fix the game problems but we&#39;ll just make you pay for it. BIS has shown they support their product. This is something CM can&#39;t say. I&#39;m sticking with BIS myself unless CM drastically changes it&#39;s tactics

[Gadger]

I just want to know how Enemy in Sight figures into this. Atari is publisher. Atari is a major publisher. Just get out some of the big names they publisher here
http://www.atari.com/us/platform/pc?showall=1
On the conterary, for every successful title there is 10 duds.

[Fork122]

there will only be one game for me, and it will be made by BIS http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
That&#39;s exactly how I feel.

If someone would have told two weeks ago I&#39;d make a post that I wasn&#39;t going to buy OFP2 I&#39;d laugh at them, but now I feel like I&#39;ll never buy the Codemasters OFP2, I&#39;ll buy the BIS version, no matter what it&#39;s named http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[Antichrist]

That&#39;s my point Apollo, where as IS are perhaps one of the top developers in the PC Industry (H&D, Mafia, etc) Atari certaintly are not huge developers, I&#39;d atleast think of CM as bigger developers. Well, I guess time will tell.
I don&#39;t believe that&#39;s the case. AFAIK Atari Inc. (Infogrames Entertainment SA) is much bigger publisher than CM at the moment. But as CM they&#39;re struggling and can go under quite soon.No way in hell would they give title like EiS to CM that close to the release date, especially considering that EiS might be their last chance to make some profit.

[Dallas]

I&#39;m goin with the BIS version. Noone else can do flashpoint. Nuff said.
Appareantly everyone can do Flashpoint, I just don&#39;t think everyone can do BIS. It&#39;s just like the movies, where producers are starting to become almost equally important as the directors or cast. &#39;From the producers of the 1 point 5 million copies sold OFP1, comes the highly anticipated secual: "OFP2: The rape of BIS" ....&#39;

Operation Flashpoint&#39;s succes is a result of the openness of the gameplay, editor, addons and a dialouge between developers and community that has almost extended the games durability to immortality. Sure I&#39;ll give CM some credit for being a part of the distribution, but I&#39;d rather give my money to the creative minds, than the bankers.

I&#39;m going to buy AA, because it&#39;s a sequal to my beloved OFP and I&#39;d like to reward BIS for giving me a gift that keeps on giving. It&#39;s no shame admitting I also play other games, so I&#39;m going to rationalize the money and time on military-sim kind of games. There can be do doubt in anybodies right mind that the BIS game, will be the one to prioritize and most importantly the ones that last. If you got any serious doubts, just compair BIS&#39; forums vs. CM&#39;s.

I just don&#39;t hope AA will be just another twelve step program.

[BravoBill]

I just want to know how Enemy in Sight figures into this. Atari is publisher. Atari is a major publisher. Just get out some of the big names they publisher here
http://www.atari.com/us/platform/pc?showall=1
On the conterary, for every successful title there is 10 duds.
Yeah but that&#39;s true about almost every publisher. Even UBI which I buy a lot of games off of has some absolute failures http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif Fact is I doubt Atari will let go of Enemy In Sights. Espeically if they publisher a lot of crap. This could be there one shot to make something good this year so you bet they will hold onto it http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[Tophe]

As a hardcore OFP-fan I will not support Codema&#036;ters release if they make one with the name Flashpoint, using another developer.

I will probably stop buying Codema&#036;ters games all together&#33;
And I call you brothers and sisters to do the same&#33;
"WE SHALL OVERCOOOOME&#33;&#33;&#33; LALALALAA&#33;&#33;"

[Morbid Angel]

So CM plans to release their OFP 2 six months before BIS comes out with their sequel.
Plenty of time BEFORE and afterwards for BIS guys to actually hit the press and the internet to tell people what&#39;s going on ... so by the time CM releases their game, everyone who hasn&#39;t been sleeping under a rock should know about the situation http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
Then again over here in german pc mags I see interviews been done with devs of lower profile games than OFP was ... yet all that BIS have done is stay low profile for years. Guys, that needs to change.
In the world today, ppl need to be hyped up. That helps with sales and nothing else.
I realize the Flashpoint community is still quite big, but on the other hand, with proper marketing etc, it could be bigger even now 4 years into retail.
I mean ... the May editions of our pc mags are out, and NO print mag has ANYTHING about BIS, OFP2, Game 2, or even Armed Assault. You gotta be kidding me&#33;

About the two Flashpoints ... well... I am 100 % on buying the BIS game ... but also 100 % to check out CM&#39;s.

[Cozza]

maybe BIS knew CM was going to be takin over by Ubi and pulled out.

Also, did BIA publish VBS1 on there own http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rock.gif

[simulacra]

Maybe CM strikes a deal with atari and illusion softworks to publish enemy in sight? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[ANTH]

Two ofp2s is not good at all it causes a split depending on which game is better i know which one that will be http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif. Its gonna make it very confusing wish the two companys could just pull together and make one good one. Insted of all this confusion nvm **** happens.

[Ti0n3r]

As a hardcore OFP-fan I will not support Codema&#036;ters release if they make one with the name Flashpoint, using another developer.

I will probably stop buying Codema&#036;ters games all together&#33;
And I call you brothers and sisters to do the same&#33;
"WE SHALL OVERCOOOOME&#33;&#33;&#33; LALALALAA&#33;&#33;"
Im with you.

[bravo 6]

As a hardcore OFP-fan I will not support Codema&#036;ters release if they make one with the name Flashpoint, using another developer.

I will probably stop buying Codema&#036;ters games all together&#33;
And I call you brothers and sisters to do the same&#33;
"WE SHALL OVERCOOOOME&#33;&#33;&#33; LALALALAA&#33;&#33;"
Im with you.

make that 3 http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/mad_o.gif
Im with BIS&#33; http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[EiZei]

Man, is my fanboy allergy flaring up. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif

More competition the better, if Codemasters is going to make a non-BIS operation flashpoint, let them. Probably wont be good but we are not forced to get it either.