Armed Assault Anticheats!!!

[Kam2000]

http://ofponline.altervista.org/armed_assault_pb_plz.jpg

[gonk]

Hmm.... Anti cheat systems just seem to add over heads to the code and only last for a while until some hacker works out how to get around it.

I still like this system where you vote for an Admin and he has the right to kick anyone for abuse, cheating or just for the fun of it.   http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif   I still find OFP the best game in being hackerless, more or less.  Just long as they don't use a "steam" style of connection..... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif  How would punk buster go with all these mods that don't enhance your ability to kill someone... they just make the game look better e.g.  Add-ons like better sky, explosions, sound ect.

[c930]

I'd like to see a kind of wildcards for checkfiles. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

So you could search e.g. for *.exe or *.dll and so on.

[ale2999]

lol kam that is some funny pic... I dont know what to do about cheaters... maybe add support for spectator mode so that matches can be reviewed and stuff. who knows

[=Matt=]

a demo recording tool would be another great tool to get cheaters, and a very important support to the community (to replay leagues match and so), like in quake, ut, or starcraft...

[[IEF] Mp]

we hope http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif

[Marshal]

As the owner of one of the leagues for OFP (TNT League), we find that cheating is the biggest issue today with the game. Granted, hackers will always find a way to make some little program to take advantage of a game because they lack the skill required to play without the aid of their little cheat files, but, there should be some type of cheat detector program which can route out most of the well known speed cheats and ammo cheats. For certain, I would think that there is a way for the ID changer to be stopped in its tracks. Most games on the market nowadays will not let you join a multiplayer game unless you have a valid ID code, so I cannot see why OFP cannot adopt a similar method to prevent players coming on to cheat and basically get away with it because they are hiding behind a fake ID number.

Also I think that an IP identifier is an absolute must for ArA and OFP2. Players maybe able to hide behind a false ID number but they would have to go a long way to change their IP address, unless they want to go through a proxy server of course which will make their game laggier anyway.

I agree that a spectator script does help with detecting and detering cheaters. My own league has adopted spectator scripts this season in our maps and we have caught quite a few players who would probably have not been caught otherwise. Also the ability to record matches would be nice (like in VBS1). This would give league admins the ability to discuss and share information regarding certain matches.

I have set up an alliance between the major OFP leagues (TNT, WGL, ECL and CCL) which gets together to discuss and sort out cheating issues in our leagues. This sends out a strong message to the cheating OFP community that we will not tolerate cheaters in our leagues any longer and that we are prepared to issue league-wide bans to persons who think that they can prosper by cheating. Our committee is called 'The OFP Alliance'.

So I hope BIS can appreciate what the community wants the most. An anti-cheat program so that we can have good games without worrying who is using what.

Marshal Law
TNT League Owner
http://www.tntleague.com

[RN Malboeuf]

Actually i would like to see MP designed so the client only loads addons that the server tells it to or only what the map wants, this will solve allot of problems, and that the server give the client the choice of dloads for missing addons via several FTPs or threw the server it's self

and the server must beable to utilize 10 mbit min

a server bench tool that can tell you your MAX AI and it's best performance, just any thing more advanced then the OFPPREFERENCES


I could go on for ever

[Dwarden]

as co-director of one of biggest anticheat communities (AASA http://www.aaserveradmins.com ) in America's Army i second this request for implementation of PunkBuster in AA/OFP2 ...

especially in todays massive MP world and scale of cheat communities , it's not anymore like when OFP/OFPR was released where it took cheats months to appear at public scene ... when cheat is today released to public cheating scene, it will have hundreds - thousands users next day ...

PB does have some major advantages :

- can update (to certain limit) independently at game engine updates
- supports mods easily (admin responsibility to manage configs http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
- can catch cheats working on "Direct3D hooks etc" which will be hard to keep eye on for game developers
- gives admin various options to "tighten" anticheat rules
- is very effective as tool against public cheating (of course there will be always some private cheat working)
- contains multiple level of bans (admins, game global, all PB protected games global (for these who messing with PB functionality))
- improves greatly admins control over server

yes there are some disadvantages (like need of certain Windows user rights or incompatibility with some special security software solutions) but there is one major plus ... PB is OPTIONAL , admin can disable it on server and player too ... so there will be always some servers w/o this ...

and nothing prevent BIS to include as additional own basic "anticheat" system within engine ...

but no matter what will be used, key is correctly developed server code and keep as much as possible to be "controlled" by server and send minimum of informations to client (only what is really needed) ...

P.s. IP identifiers are waste (dynamic ranges, IP spoofing) ... You need use unique IDs, based on game serial numbers keys or/and hardware generated etc ...

[Chipper]

Punkbuster will ruin the game. I have never had a problem with cheaters in ofp.

[sicilian]

Its not very hard to build up community coded solution but all we need is a open server interface which we can connect to.

In OFP1 we cannot because the code of the server is near like the client. But if this barrier could be broken, BI could release a server admin SDK which enables us to improve and integrate our own anti cheat measures directly in the server.

i.e.
- generating ingame messages from external programm

- use of admin commands from external programm

- do specific checkfile checks from external programm

WE NEED A COMMUNICATION INTERFACE WITH THE SERVER!

A server side only protocol would prevent that this is also used for cheats (except of the admin http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif  ).

I WANT AN OPEN EXPANSION COMMUNICATION PROTOCOL TO THE SERVER!

http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

[Marshal]

Punkbuster will ruin the game. I have never had a problem with cheaters in ofp.
If you havent experienced cheating then I would think that either you havent played OFP very long or do not play many multiplayer games?

My own league has been active since May 2003 and in that time I would guess that we have had to ban at least 10 players and one clan. That may not sound very many people, but you have to consider that these players are playing in a league situation. I have seen many players coming on with unknown names who cheat on public servers - that is the problem with the ID changer, it allows some well known names in the community go around and use cheats without detection. We have had problems where banned players have even come back into our league under an alias and a new ID number - being a league admin is a very hard job, especially when OFP in its present state is very easy to hack.

I would also consider that ArA and OFP2 has some way of checking the folders in the OFP directory. Players have started using folders to hide thier cheat files.

Some games check file structures as you join the game. A similar method employed by OFP would be great as it would report straight away if a player is using cheat files. As has been mentioned earlier, a filechecker that could be setup to allow certain addons (such as editorupdate102, objects and maybe BAS addons) would be very helpful for server admins and league admins such as myself because we could set down the rules as to what addons are allowed in our leagues and suggest server settings to the clans in our leagues.

The big problem for the leagues who support OFP right now is that cheaters once caught can be very bitter. A fine example is my own league which at present is offline until June 1st due to a hacker taking down the site. The same happened to ECL and also the GGX website. If BIS can implement some type of file checker then we will find that these cheaters wont even bother to load up their files because they will be found out straight away. It will also keep the community a lot friendlier and united, just how OFP used to be in the early days.

Unfortunately, OFP in its present state has become somewhat of a bitter community because of cheaters and players who like to think that they 'own' other players.

Personally, I turn on my OFP to have fun and should not have to worry who is using what to gain an advantage. I believe that cheating has turned the most people away from this game. I would like to think that the vast majority in this forum would sympathise with my beliefs that cutting down on cheating is the way to get the OFP community back to what it was a year or so ago.

Marshal Law
TNT League Owner
http://www.tntleague.com

[RN Malboeuf]

Unfortunately, OFP in its present state has become somewhat of a bitter community because of cheaters and players who like to think that they 'own' other players.
this is true, serveral things start this, inept players or cheaters thinking advanced players wont notice something odd or OFP Urban legons, players think this is the way OFP works when it works in another


in the old days we would pick up a gun of a fallen enemy after he just fired and see he still has max ammo

it took us almost 3 years to have adiquite file checks that still fail on undetectable addons


we need something!!!!!!

[sicilian]

To fullfill the checks which are implemented in nowadays OFP an integration of an sha or even md5 check of the main executable is a must be!!!

All the ingame cheating possibilities which were developed since OFP came out were broken except this main thing of editing the executable to load what ever you want. All checks BI introduced with their patches could not beat this thing!

This time you are in development and it is not a support request. So please don't forget to integrate a exe check (optional: to be also executed manually per admin command)

An official statement of planned measures is helpfull not to discuss until our fingers are broken and you could easily synchronize your plans with the communities experiences...

[Dwarden]

PB supports most of all requested features above ...
people saying PB will ruin game got no idea about PB and cheating ...


just give yourself question "if PB sux so much ...  why it's used in 14 game titles and covering 6 different game engines ... ? "

[MattXR]

PunkBuster has to be one of the crappest Anticheat systems ever.. but it does stop the cheaters..

i would not recomend it in AA it would totaly ruin the game.. in games with PB im always getting kicked for stupid reasons when im not cheating.. i always keep upto date with PB as well.. its stupid..

[Dwarden]

PunkBuster has to be one of the crappest Anticheat systems ever.. but it does stop the cheaters..

i would not recomend it in AA it would totaly ruin the game.. in games with PB im always getting kicked for stupid reasons when im not cheating.. i always keep upto date with PB as well.. its stupid..
stop blaming Admin decisions to be problem of PB ... and if someone is bad admin then You will be kicked in non PB game also ...

please "specify" your crappest anticheat ever , like "show me something better" http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[Antichrist]

I don't want PB in AA or OFP2. It is probably the best anti-cheat program out there, but it pisses me off that every time I try to play America's Army (which i do about once a week or so) I have to spend several minutes downloading PB updates. And since PB updates within a game are so freaking slow I always end up quitting the game, running pbweb and then loading the game again.

Say no to PB! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[Dwarden]

I don't want PB in AA or OFP2. It is probably the best anti-cheat program out there, but it pisses me off that every time I try to play America's Army (which i do about once a week or so) I have to spend several minutes downloading PB updates. And since PB updates within a game are so freaking slow I always end up quitting the game, running pbweb and then loading the game again.

Say no to PB!  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif
ok so because there is slow updating for some minutes to download new version or PB before u can play ...
u decided to choose cheat infested game ...

and just question did You wrote to EBI to improve that speeds ? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif)

[Antichrist]

I don't want PB in AA or OFP2. It is probably the best anti-cheat program out there, but it pisses me off that every time I try to play America's Army (which i do about once a week or so) I have to spend several minutes downloading PB updates. And since PB updates within a game are so freaking slow I always end up quitting the game, running pbweb and then loading the game again.

Say no to PB! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif
ok so because there is slow updating for some minutes to download new version or PB before u can play ...
u decided to choose cheat infested game ...

and just question did You wrote to EBI to improve that speeds ? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif)
Well I haven't really seen cheat-infested game yet except for CS:S. So I don't see your point! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[sicilian]

Even if PB is to be integrated it is the admins choice to enable or disable it! So you will always find servers without PB. Therefore your discussions are senseless for me.

(Personally I would prefer to let us as much possibilities as you can (without PB ) to make our own solutions and to bring it down to the fact and needed points)

[SFWanabe]

http://ofponline.altervista.org/armed_assault_pb_plz.jpg
Why dont you ask for lag while your at it. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/mad_o.gif

[Marshal]

Any solution must be better than OFP in its present state. A simple file checker that can be edited to allow addons for leagues would be fine.

I think the main problem with the release of OFP1 was that there really wasnt a lot of information (make that no information) packed with the game when it was released (and versions thereafter) which showed server admins how to program or set up their servers to play OFP.

Luckily, OFP has one of the best Mod communities and it is thanks to them that we still play OFP today, otherwise I would very much doubt that so many people would have stayed with OFP.

Please listen to what were saying BIS whilst the game is in development. You know as well as I do what a certain cheat community is working on, and I have discussed this with Marek Spanel in the past.

Dont let the cheat community spoil your future games. Include at least something on par with Punkbuster so that the server admins have the choice to run it on their servers if they wish.

Marshal Law
TNT League Owner
http://www.tntleague.com

[Dwarden]

Quote[/b] ]Well I haven't really seen cheat-infested game yet except for CS:S. So I don't see your point! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

You serious? i suggest You visit AC sites for todays played FPS and then start speaking "there is no cheat infested game except CS/CSS) ...

that's like saying there are criminals only in 1 country ...


Quote[/b] ]Why dont you ask for lag while your at it.
Since when PB brings lag?
as admin and player i not noticed such thing for years ...

sure there is certain performance hit, but that will be using ANY anticheat solution (file hash check needs for example some CPU cyles and disk reads http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[FCOPZ-Illuminator]

i agree, i thing Punkbuster is not a good solution. Maybe exists an modified and better Checkfile possibility..... (?)

[Baz]

gee this all sound great and all, but i hate the idea of having punkbuster.... Oh and i think having a file checker is a very bad idea..... I load about gigs of addons, I don't need anymore lag when trying to connect to a server and play. Just my $0.02.

[Daniel]

Oooh how i hate cheaters. I was playing a TDM and emptied two mags into a guy with the steyr, without lag, and he got clean away with our flag, blood spurting as he ran. He did this a few times, we told the admin, and he was in the same clan! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/mad_o.gif
I'd really like an anti-cheat system that kicks the cheaters with as few cons as possible - like disableing graphic enhancing addons etc.  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[Harnu]

One thing about the vote admin system that was puttering through my head was to be able to vote multiple admins, say three, and admins can only kick with 2 their total 3 votes? And maybe some kind of "democratic" system as far as votes go. Hell, it would probably be overly complex and confusing, but IMO it would be worth it.

[aviel]

hello m8,

Punkbuster scans for modded files/open/running dll's, if he found one modded file or a extra DLL it just kicks out (go take a look at the world famous game americas army http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif ).
that meens there will be no availability for addons.

Punkbuster doesnt helps in any possible/thinkable way, it just works like placebo pills for the community so they will shut up about cheaters http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

anyways the admin who play this game, make nice file checkers so they are able to see whats on, on the other site.

Have a nice day http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[MattXR]

hello m8,

Punkbuster scans for modded files/open/running dll's, if he found one modded file or a extra DLL it just kicks out (go take a look at the world famous game americas army  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif ).
that meens there will be no availability for addons.

Punkbuster doesnt helps in any possible/thinkable way, it just works like placebo pills for the community so they will shut up about cheaters  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

anyways the admin who play this game, make nice file checkers so they are able to see whats on, on the other site.

Have a nice day http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
i agree, if you have any modified files it will kick you, so no ecp, sound packs or anything lol.. it would be hell

[Major Fubar]

Speaking for myself, I hope that any anti-cheat measures in AA are purely optional - I generally play only with a trusted group of friends via LAN or online, and I don't want any anti-cheat measures slowing down or otherwise interfering with our games. If it is something than can be simply switched off when you feel there is no need for it, all well and good.

[Andy Mc]

Unless the 1 hit / 1 kill approach of the game(s) turns the cheats away and they favor something like Battlefield.......anti-cheat will have to be added.....


Nothing wrong with Punkbuster -- works effectively when used correctly.

Futhermore when "enhanced" by using the tools and md5 checks at www.punksbusted.com or www.aaserveradmins.com -- pretty much all public hacks can be stopped.

56k'ers can have problems, but really broadband is as cheap as Ł10 a month now -- some of you probably used to pay more than that for dial-up.....

[DBR_ONIX]

Still some people cannot get broadband, which was the case with me untill a year ago..
Personaly, I'm not bothered about what anti-cheat stuff is with ArA, as I only play with my squad, or people in the squad. As long as I can disable the anti-cheat thing while hosting, I'm happy.
I really don't think many people will cheat in OFP, it's not a mainstream game, like CS:S or AA:O. The only thing I can think of is more detailed report on what part of the file is modified (Sent to an admin log on the server, maybe). I like the way FADE does things, not shouting "DONT COPY THE GAME" then closing it's self, instead slowly making the game grind to a halt http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

As for the Anti-Cheat SDK, that could have a good effect, or the complete oposite, it could (and probobaly would) make making cheats easier. Then the admins would have to make improved anti-cheat, then cheaters would make better cheats etc etc... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif

- Ben

[caveman]

i think people that say dont add punkbuster to AA have something to hide.
i do think that AA needs something to stop cheats as this is probably they main reason i have left ofp as its ok having filechecks but when people get by those and still cheat u think to urself why have i wasted the pasted 30min - whatever playing that map....

[Freshman]

Has one of you ever seen a cheater in OFP?
I think OFP is a game where anybody who knows scripting can cheat but nobody does.
The panic of cheaters is worse than the cheaters themselves.

[Daniel]

Has one of you ever seen a cheater in OFP?
I think OFP is a game where anybody who knows scripting can cheat but nobody does.
The panic of cheaters is worse than the cheaters themselves.
I've only seen cheaters on DM CS style games. But I don't play them anymore http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

[Indy]

Has one of you ever seen a cheater in OFP?
I think OFP is a game where anybody who knows scripting can cheat but nobody does.
The panic of cheaters is worse than the cheaters themselves.
there are more cheaters in ofp than you may think, many of them use speed hacks or wirefreame, if you play a league you will se a lot of them, and that's why something like punkbuster is needed

[NKVD]

there are many cheats in ofp..if you haven't seen them - you haven't played OFP online last and this year or if you play on some private coop server that noone gives a stuff about....

[Master_Shake_]

anti-cheat system is needed in ALL online game today

there are tons of cheats and cheat sites giving them out to any lamer that wants them

as soon as a game is released there are cheats within days

ofp in it's current state has some really nasty cheats


all the people on here that have said that anti-cheat will ruin the game, I don't see any cheaters, etc, are probably the people on the servers using the cheats and ruining it for the rest of us

oh and punkbuster sucks?

lol

it sure does for all the cheaters that get a hardware ban on it, guess they better forget about playing ANY pb game on that computer

[Daniel]

I'd like an Anti-Cheat system such as Punk Buster, as long as it doesn't interfere with genuine modifications such as Y2K3 and FFUR. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

Hopefully OFP2 on the other hand will be so good it won't even need modding. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

[Dwarden]

hello m8,

Punkbuster scans for modded files/open/running dll's, if he found one modded file or a extra DLL it just kicks out (go take a look at the world famous game americas army  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif ).
that meens there will be no availability for addons.

Punkbuster doesnt helps in any possible/thinkable way, it just works like placebo pills for the community so they will shut up about cheaters  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

anyways the admin who play this game, make nice file checkers so they are able to see whats on, on the other site.

Have a nice day http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
You are wrong ... it can be setup that way addon works ...

if You not noticed America's Army is one of these "static" games NOT allowing and NOT made to support addons of any way ... so running it in pure mode is easy ...

btw PB is in BattleField 1942 too and see You can run mods ...

open You eyes ... it works http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[ANTH]

I'd like to see a kind of wildcards for checkfiles. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

So you could search e.g. for *.exe or *.dll and so on.
Yep could work for files in the actual folder but outside of it theres nothing it can do but its a great idea and wish you could do it in ofp, Punk busters myself I think would be great also you need strong cheat defence in any game these days.

[BigRed]

I agree with the check file instead of punkbuster because of all the addons and mod.

Scary as it maybe but I agree with Mal if the server would only allow the players to use the addons that are for that specific map.  Any other files would be disabled or if a player was forcing a file to be used it would autokick them.

It would also be sweet if you could set the default graphic by the server that way you could turn the graphics up but you could only goes as low as the server will allow.  Because though its not a cheat, turing your graphic down to get 2D bushes and trees has ruined the MP world as well as cheating.

[sicilian]

As for the Anti-Cheat SDK, that could have a good effect, or the complete oposite, it could (and probobaly would) make making cheats easier. Then the admins would have to make improved anti-cheat, then cheaters would make better cheats etc etc... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif
If you meant this (http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=60;t=46587) then you simply did not think about what I wrote there.

It is a SERVER SDK which will only be available to the local system on the server. So the server admin is the only one who has control over that! Therefore it is not important if any cheater is developing something for that because he will never get it on the server machine... This SDK is meant server side!!! So the ingame connectors are only available there. In future the community could develop the client side system and than easily connect to the server via the SDK after uploading or sending the data over a self chosen way to the server machine.

There is no chance for cheaters to use the SDK for cheats...

[Blackden]

Yeah give us something for avoid cheaters, if not dont loose your time, because in less of 1 month the same guys who fucked OFP will do the same with ArA.

Many of us will not buy the game if you do nothing, you can be sure of that. I will be the 1st.

[Placebo]

Let's have another go at keeping this thread ontopic without it turning into accusations about people....

[Crazy_lenny]

As squadleader of the BEF clan I would like to share our 4 years of eperience in the ofp community.
We are already playing the game from version 1.0. I can truly say that cheating has destroyed the community. We are Currently only able to play with other people that we really know on closed servers.... this is not really what it was or what it was meant to be...Extra anti-cheat features have to be added or BIS has to provide the community with longer support and more updates.

In fact it is truly sad how cheaters took over the community and how things are going right now on the public servers.

The compatiblity with previous addons is great but it makes me also quite worried about how easy it will be to port current cheat technologies to the new version because it is in fact more or less the same game.

One more thing!(OFFTOPIC) Gamedevelopers almost always make the error to release only a windows server. As a result there arn't many servers/good servers and the community dies. PLEASE RELEASE A LINUX SERVER WITH THE RELEASE OF AMRED ASSAULT!

I really do hope that they will think about these things
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/xmas_o.gif

[Marshal]

Well by the looks of it, BIS needs to act fast against the cheaters, because apparently a certain OFP cheat community has just released an ID changer that can specifically use any persons ID number!!!!!!!!

This is the worse news for true OFP fans, especially those who participate in a league like my own (TNT League) because now we will not be able to tell the difference between players purely by seeing their IDs on a screenshot. Any malicious person can now go onto servers and use their cheat files whilst using a legitimate players ID number.

This is a very sad affair which should have been nipped in the bud by BIS way back around 2 years ago when these cheats started surfacing. The situation has got so bad that I dont even play OFP any more  because Im fed up of the bickering and cheating that goes with this game.

Its a real shame because I played OFP hardcore for 4 years solid. I hope BIS are listening to its community about what we want as they may find that more people will go the same route as I have.

Im now seriously thinking of putting my league on hold until AA is released because of this latest ID changer - because it will make an admins life very hard to judge a situation if you cannot even prove who a person is by their ID number - how else are we supposed to identify players now?

Marshal Law
TNT League Owner
http://www.tntleague.com (temporary site at http://www.tntleague.tk) (http://deltastriketeam.proboards20.com/index.cgi?))

[Dwarden]

PunkBuster can help get rid of these "ID" problems...


because PB GUID is generated from CDkey ... so if You ban that GUID his accounts "linked" to that CD key are out of order for Your server ...

same goes for PB global GUID bans ...

and best is HardwareUID bans are based over this so he is globally banned + his machine is banned ...

and all this fear about "PB" limiting "moddability" of game are nonsense ... it can be easily configured to work ...

best combination for cheat free enviroment :

- any important operation must be calculated OR/AND re-checked at server (preventing speedhacking, animation skipping, unlimited ammos, position cheats etc)

- correctly programmed client (preventing easy bytehacking and memory editing)

- some inbuild anticheat solution from developers (like file checksums , remote game variables control/checking etc)

- support for external but tied to engine anticheat (like PunkBuster), this will prevent D3D hooks and any advanced low level crap ...

- SDK support for 3rd party anticheat solution (ideally written in way to be able cooperate with PB (ie game module for client and server which is "COVERED" by PB against modification)

this way ... it will be close to perfect

[sicilian]

I vote for dynamic code encryption!

- Don't share unencrypted data with the server!

- Use different encryption methods on the client to prevent fast memory read outs.

But the easiest of all:

Make the executable unrenameable (what a crazy word  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif ) and make it possible to check the executable for us!

I totally agree with Dwarden! This way we have many possibilities to engage cheaters. PB or any other solution can be used from the release until support is slower than cheats are spreading. If PB/other solution isn't up to date or we experience cheats which are breaking the PB/other solution engine we could make our own ones. Updates then could easily be made because the makers are in the community themselves. Therefore fastest support is available...

Watch also the Common Anticheat Enhancements For All BI Games (http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=60;t=46587) thread...

[eJay]

Just make some new patches for game and cheaters will be eliminated http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

It wil be like: Armed Assault ver. 99.76908

Patch ver. 100.89765 on the way http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[Waterman]

Yup, if nothing is done about this ID changer then im afraid OFP is gonna have a dead MP community. Just yesterday two members (including myself) from our clan were impersonated and perhaps 3/4 members of another clan impersonated too. So I really hope BIS impliment Punkbuster into Armed Assault, and preferrably somthing to stop the cheats taking others ID's now. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif

[Kam2000]

Yup, if nothing is done about this ID changer then im afraid OFP is gonna have a dead MP community.
It's allready dead since 2003. Just scan server with ASE and see in-game servers.

[Waterman]

Yup, if nothing is done about this ID changer then im afraid OFP is gonna have a dead MP community.
It's allready dead since 2003. Just scan server with ASE and see in-game servers.
When I say dead, I mean only cheaters will be still playing and everyone else will have moved onto a new game. ATM there are still many ligit clans like DST, DK, USI, GGX, RN, KaoS etc... and it spoils the fun for our clans and the leagues we play in.

[Evil_Storm]

Armed Assault will bring lots of new players and it will make everything better anti cheat or not. Most players are decent and lots of fresh meat will prevent certain clans from thinking they can "own" the community. It will introduce alot of excellent players, for some old OFPers they will flame everyone for cheating while others just will accept talent when they see it. New players IMO is all it needs, cheats will always exist like in any other game. Can't wait for AA.

[Moving Target]

PB is good for some games, but when you are editing the files (ECP etc.) then it goes out the window. Best thing that i have to say is keep the admin and kick! It is blatently obvious when someone is cheating on everygame, because they will have a huge score. The ID changer that recently came out, how long is it since the game was released? 4 years? I doubt that anyone at BIS would have thought the game would have lasted that long.

[Waterman]

The only reason the mp community has kept going is the new patches which means they cheaters have to spend more time making new ones. This isn't the first id changer for ofp Moving Target, i hope you realise. With the option to turn off punkbuster then there's no reason why is should not be implimented.

[Kam2000]

You all thinking cheaters all that guys that respawning tank or ship or destroy the map or move the building?

No guys!!!

OfP it's allready dead, 95% of clans and players left ofp not ONLY for that kind of cheaters but because no one CW it's sure that it's clear CW.

I prefer the cheater that spawn tanks or something sh** that clanmembers cheaters that play with colored uniform, wireframe, speedhack and be happy because they play well at others eyes or because they won the CW with cheat...

OfP it's unplayable from 2 years

Armed Assault must have a good anticheats like PB or something that guarantees or at least diminishes the cheaters or i really think the game after 2 weeks will be full of cheaters like now in OfP and all will be the same. Clans and players left or don't buy the game.


---&#62; Sorry for my english, i hope that guys undestand what i mean <---

[Moving Target]

Eh? Ive played on servers for 2 years now, and cheaters that have used cheats have mostly been caught. How can you not be suspicious of someone who has a score well above everyone elses?

One way however would be to give the option to bind your username for MP to your ID on a BIS server, that way if someone tried to change their ID it would be recognised as false by server and player would be kicked.

[Kam2000]

Only because a player have got much kills this not mean that he&#39;s a cheater and you can&#39;t kick or ban this player.
There are also a players with good skill that don&#39;t using cheats.

We need a good anticheat&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Dwarden]

PB is good for some games, but when you are editing the files (ECP etc.) then it goes out the window.  Best thing that i have to say is keep the admin and kick&#33;  It is blatently obvious when someone is cheating on everygame, because they will have a huge score.  The ID changer that recently came out, how long is it since the game was released?  4 years?  I doubt that anyone at BIS would have thought the game would have lasted that long.
i already wrote in this thread multiple times that PB does "support" game modifications, just take look at games PunkBuster is implemented within (www.punkbuster.com www.evenbalance.com)

as example of "well moddable games" BF1942, BFV, BF2, Quake3, RTCW, ET etc ...

if any improvement needed in code EBI programmers can always adjust the code ...

[Marshal]

The worst part about cheating in OFP is that even if you ban a person for cheating they can simply change their ID and come back. So, unless your aware of who the person is, there is no way of permenantly banning a person from your server or league. A good example would be a player who was banned from my league last year for using a cheat where he could see through bushes whilst he was playing in the OFP World Cup which my league runs. Luckily we had a spectator watching the match who caught the guy out.

However, just recently I found out that this player had crept back into the league with a new ID and name. I cannot think of any other game which lets players mess around with the game code so much. If you havent got a legitimate copy of lets say Doom 3 or Halflife 2 then you cant play the game. Really this ID changer is like a keygen which cant be detected by the game.

Many games are cracked on release and keygen programs are issued so that players can play these pirated games in multiplayer mode, but the software companies soon release a patch which denies any pirate copies from playing in online games. The same should be put into action for AA. I have seen games such as Quake which checks your files when you enter a server - if your files dont match or it finds something that shouldnt be there then you cant play online - why cant BIS adopt this idea?

The other thing that I dont particularly appreciate is that BIS do not seem to be very active in discussing these matters with its community. Many game forums are set up for players thoughts and views and the admins or game developers use the forum to announce updates and ideas and in some cases the admins answer questions on a daily basis - BIS seem to be very quiet about thier plans or about discussing issues such as cheating and they always have been, even when OFP was newly released.

Why?

Marshal Law
TNT League

[Kam2000]

Maybe they really are not interested and they only want get posts in their forum...
In fact OfP was not supported like all others game although all posts of bugs or cheats in BIS forum.  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/band.gif

[[TNF]Evil_Storm]

Sitting talking down to ID changer huh marshal? <link removed> Who is the real cheater? Blast from the past[/URL]

[Sanctuary]

I hope punkbuster will not be integrated in Armed Assault , for a lot of very valid reasons (http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/64869) .

If BIS decide to integrate such "program" into Armed Assault, all i hope is that such punkbuster install will stay optional , and that you can select to not install it (even if you will not be able to play on punkbuster servers).

Like ID Software did for Quake 3 by example, punkbuster was only optional in Quake3 and the user was not forced in having this &#39;thing&#39; on his hardrive.

I really don&#39;t need to lose Armed Assault performance only because of some idiots abusing the MP while i am focusing in SP and mission making environment.

BIS made anticheats, like the one BIS implemented in OFP would be better than this awfull punkbuster.

[Moving Target]

*sighs* it looks like PB is the only thing out there that can catch 15 year old script kiddies, but there must be something that doesnt can every file on your hard drive and forces you to shut down certain firewalls. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif

[Kam2000]

Doesn&#39;t metter if PB or other anticheat but ---&#62; W-E M-U-S-T H-A-V-E A G-O-O-D A-N-T-I-C-H-E-A-T-S.

[Placebo]

[TNF]Evil_Storm I removed your link, airing dirty laundry from another forum is not acceptable here, read the rules please.

[Heatseeker]

PB can do alright, it was doing fine in americas army 2.3, 2.4 switched to UT2.5 engine so they havent catched up yet but PB has done good before. I think bis already have alot of work in their hands, no need for more.
The problem would be with 56k modem players, all the updating and screenshots would prevent them from playing i guess. Another problem is the game open endness, the same thing that makes it so good does ruin mp but imagine OFP without sky mods or Sanct&#39;s/DMA animation mod http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/sad_o.gif .
I think everything will remain like it is now with OFP http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif .

[Kam2000]

I think everything will remain like it is now with OFP http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif .
You think wrong because the truth is that -90% cheaters in OfP and anyway in official league match no need addons or mods just clear OfP.

-90% cheaters mean +100% OfP popularity,players,clan....

http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif


It&#39;s not hard to undestand http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/banghead.gif

[Dwarden]

I hope punkbuster will not be integrated in Armed Assault , for a lot of very valid reasons (http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/64869) .

If BIS decide to integrate such "program" into Armed Assault, all i hope is that such punkbuster install will stay optional , and that you can select to not install it (even if you will not be able to play on punkbuster servers).

Like ID Software did for Quake 3 by example, punkbuster was only optional in Quake3 and the user was not forced in having this &#39;thing&#39; on his hardrive.

I really don&#39;t need to lose Armed Assault performance only because of some idiots abusing the MP while i am focusing in SP and mission making environment.

BIS made anticheats,  like the one BIS implemented in OFP would be better than this awful punkbuster.
I will be bit sharp now at You ...

You are clear example of person who "don&#39;t have idea what PB is and how it work and HOW is INTEGRATED into games" ...

why?

1) PunkBuster is ALWAYS optional "MODULE" in EVERY game in which was implemented

yes , You read correctly "OPTIONAL" ...
Client user CAN "DECIDE" to enable PB and play at PB "enabled" servers ...
or NOT ENABLE PunkBuster and play only at non-PB servers &#33;


2) You use some "forum" where it clearly shows most of problems with PB as "user error" ... most of people with ALL these problems don&#39;t read manual of PB, don&#39;t read FAQs and of course fails to configure whats needed if needed.

3) sure noone said PB is "perfect", it does have bugs and problems, but i can tell You, i KNOW developers from EvenBalance Inc. and they NEVER ignore real issues with theirs software and constantly working on improving it
+ as admin i can say that PB grows to be MOST effective tool for administrating servers against "bad player elements".

4) PunkBuster IS NOT ACTIVE in SINGLE PLAYER MODE &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

5) BIS anticheat in OFP was total basic and it&#39;s miles aways from being able to keep cheaters away ... plus it cover again only internal engine cheats ...

6) performance

network lags? I&#39;m sorry but PB was developed with 56k modem in mind so anyone with "qualite" modem and ABOVE connectivity is "fine" and anyone over 256kbit don&#39;t notice existence of PB at all (wrong configurations client or server side aren&#39;t subject to count)

cpu lags? sorry but any "hash" checking or engine variables (no matter what) will result into some CPU cycles, memory and IO (data media as HDD) being utilized ... so you either want play in "unsafe" environment or decide to play in relative safe and sacrify some % of performance ....

7) "awful punkbuster ?"  excuse me sir....
let&#39;s look at Anticheat market ... what You see?

PunkBuster - <u>implemented was in 15 games,
 including 5 of TOP10 multiplayer ones,
 spanning over 7 game engines (Quake 3 engine, Unreal Engine 2 and 2.5, Doom 3 engine, Cry Engine, Joint Operations engine plus Battlefield 1 and 2 engines )</u>
and supporting for now 3 platforms (Windows, Linux and Mac)
ability to fight both engine based based cheats and external DC/DOD, Open GL cheats
constantly updated (usually monthly cycles if needed daily) with both detections and features
ability to "take" remote screen shot of "what player sees" on his game screen (yes it&#39;s limited in functionality but still very successful feature)
and dozens other additional features for admins ...

...from view of admin it&#39;s best working all in one solution available ...

so what&#39;s more out at market... official ones:

VAC - first generation anticheat from Valve, low update frequency, totally abandoned, not updated for year(s), able fight only engine based cheats, broken and beaten by thousands cheats, total failure in eyes of admin

VAC2 - second generation anticheat from Valve, bit mystery from known informations it will be just improved VAC for Source engine unable match PB functionality

USECURE - UT2004 sports Epic&#39;s internal anticheat named usecure, able fight only engine based cheats, above low update frequency, broken and beaten by dozens - hundreds cheats, good try but still failure in eyes of admin

Hradba - anticheat used in game VietCong was developed by United Admins (authors of 3rd party anticheat solutions for Counter Strike), again it cover mainly engine based cheats (for advanced external cheats it failed in that area), from start it was easy to break, but later it was improved but when it reach optimal quality for it&#39;s type, updates were dropped... not good from admins view

WACHE - anticheat used in game Soldner was developed by WiNGS (authors of Soldner) is interesting approach and probably one of best "engine cheat checking" anticheats to date, problem is that is quite vulnerable to external cheats and does have sometimes serious impact on performance and some minor bugs.
Even WINGS and many of community says that WACHE is better than PB, it&#39;s FALSE sense of security as they don&#39;t realize that only combination of internal engine anticheat "WACHE" and external anticheat "PUNKBUSTER" is correct way and key to SUCCESS&#33; ,
so theirs refusal to implement PB as option result into opened door for cheaters ruin that game with external based cheats (texture cheats like wallhacks, brighthacks, NV visions, radar overlays, aim helpers etc)....again not good from admins perspective

3rd party ones:

United Admins (unitedadmins.com)
community of admins, coders and players

development of Cheating Death for CS (this is client - server solution,
able cover both external and internal (engine) based cheats, probably only complex "solution" able compete with PB)
helping with HLguard (server side engine based anticheat only)

and also they developed above mentioned Hradba anticheat

Unreal Admins (unrealadmins.org)
community of admins, coders and players

various engine based anticheats developed there for Unreal games (UT, UT2003, UT2004 etc)
namely AntiTCC, Safegame, UTpure, QValidate and others ...
noone of them is able catch external cheats ...


well there are some other tries and "like" anticheat solutions but they never reached any useful or major scale use ...

as You can see above any anticheat solution made directly by game developers (to date) lacks of frequent updates to detect "In The Wild" cheats ...

and now ... please some real arguments "against" what i just wrote above ...

thanks  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/banghead.gif  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/pistols.gif

---

ADDED:

There are various ways and most optimal are these two:

1) Combination of anticheat (base) from developers + external anticheat in quality level AT LEAST as PunKBuster now

2)  Combination of anticheat (base) from developers + external anticheat in quality level AT LEAST as PunKBuster now
+ developers release AntiCheat SDK (ACSDK) for both client and server
where anticheat like PunkBuster stays here as wall against external cheats and will be adjusted to support additional "custom" security modules (which were coded with ACSDK) giving admin rights to choose best ones and use what he needs (and PB like AC will be technically protecting these modules against unwanted modifications (of course server settings need be adjusted for this)

edit: some typo fixes ...

[Sanctuary]

Quote[/b] ]1) PunkBuster is ALWAYS optional "MODULE" in EVERY game in which was implemented
yes , You read correctly "OPTIONAL" ...
Client user CAN "DECIDE" to enable PB and play at PB "enabled" servers ...
or NOT ENABLE PunkBuster and play only at non-PB servers &#33;
Maybe, but if you install punkbuster, it will be line of codes read by the program, , whatever you put it ON or OFF.
Solution : optional at the install , like for Quake 3, not optional only ingame.


Quote[/b] ] 3) sure noone said PB is "perfect", it does have bugs and problems

Quote[/b] ]2) You use some "forum" where it clearly shows most of problems with PB as "user error" ... most of people with ALL these problems don&#39;t read manual of PB, don&#39;t read FAQs and of course fails to configure whats needed if needed.

Funny how you can contradict yourself, reported errors are only users fault, while you accepted the fact it does have bugs and problems.
But sure, broadbandreport is a bunch of uneducated individuals that know nothing on nothing ....


Quote[/b] ]PunkBuster - implemented was in 15 games,
including 5 of TOP10 multiplayer ones,
spanning over 7 game engines (Quake 3 engine, Unreal Engine 2 and 2.5, Doom 3 engine, CryEngine, Joint Operations engine plus BattleField 1 and 2 engines )
and supporting for now 3 platforms (Windows, Linux and Mac)
ability to fight both engine based based cheats and external DX/D3D, OpenGL cheats
constantly updated (usually monthly cycles if needed daily) with both detections and features
ability to "take" remote screenshot of "what player sees" on his game screen (yes it&#39;s limited in functionality but still very successful feature)
and dozens other additional features for admins ...
Because a program is widely used, it does not make it the best solution, sorry to kick into your bubble.


Quote[/b] ]6) performance

network lags? I&#39;m sorry but PB was developed with 56k modem in mind so anyone with "qualite" modem and ABOVE connectivity is "fine" and anyone over 256kbit don&#39;t notice existence of PB at all (wrong configurations client or server side aren&#39;t subject to count)

cpu lags? sorry but any "hash" checking or engine variables (no matter what) will result into some CPU cycles, memory and IO (data media as HDD) being utilized ... so you either want play in "unsafe" environment or decide to play in relative safe and sacrify some % of performance ....
Interesting how your claims can be opposite to what several users have experimented.
But those users are certainly not PB developers/friends like you defined yourself, maybe that&#39;s why they are wrong.
And maybe they read too many ignorant populated forum too.


Quote[/b] ]
and now ... please some real arguments "against" what i just wrote above ...
If you want some serious discussions, maybe drop the attitude and get an user view and not your PB/EvenBalance developer/friend bias you are displaying there.
Else i am afraid you will argue only with yourself.

[Dwarden]

Quote[/b] ]Sanctuary,June 25 2005,17:59]
i have question,
what games which are using PunkBuster you own
and what&#39;s amount of servers with PB You admin or own ?

for me answer is "dozen and dozens" ...


Quote[/b] ]
Maybe, but if you install punkbuster, it will be line of codes read by the program, , whatever you put it ON or OFF.
Solution : optional at the install , like for Quake 3, not optional only ingame.


1) if it&#39;s not used , it&#39;s disabled, and that mean completely, end of story ...  
optionable on install then equate disabled ...



Quote[/b] ]
Funny how you can contradict yourself, reported errors are only users fault, while you accepted the fact it does have bugs and problems.
But sure, broadbandreport is a bunch of uneducated individuals that know nothing on nothing ....


2) no complex software made by human is perfect ... so bugs can exist and errors can happen,
in that case it&#39;s about technical support, manuals, FAQ,
speed of updates and ability to made it better as soon as possible thru update. Btw. sure i will take all broadbandreport users as "skilled" profis http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif ...


Quote[/b] ]
Because a program is widely used, it does not make it the best solution, sorry to kick into your bubble.


3) noone forced these companies/developers to adopt PB and i never said it&#39;s ideal solution, it&#39;s best available to this date ...
and there are many upcoming titles to announce use of PB ...
at least it gives space to start think about "WHY" was PB selected ...


Quote[/b] ]
Interesting how your claims can be opposite to what several users have experimented.
But those users are certainly not PB developers/friends like you defined yourself, maybe that&#39;s why they are wrong.
And maybe they read too many ignorant populated forum too.


well, are You completely sure these users have "completely OK" connectivity, unfaulty modems or no hardware / software collisions or issues ? are you able to put Your hand into fire and say "that&#39;s PB fault"

Yes i said i know EBI developers but i NOT said above they my friends
and i&#39;m also NOT considering myself to be PB/theirs fanboy,
in fact i&#39;m very critical to some parts of PB as there is always place to improvements.

But from my endpoint (as customer, software user and administrator and codirector of America&#39;s Army anticheat community)
are any communications with EvenBalance Inc. related to problems, bug fixes and features implementation
on very high quality level, including both professional approach and friendly talks (human 2 human).


Quote[/b] ]
If you want some serious discussions, maybe drop the attitude and get an user view and not your PB/EvenBalance developer/friend bias you are displaying there.
Else i am afraid you will argue only with yourself.


What attitude you mean ?
I&#39;m software users, game player also, i&#39;m game tester, i&#39;m admin of game servers and i help to run AC community.

i work with servers and clients using games with PB nearly daily so i only expressing my experiences ...

All i said here is my opinion about things, i don&#39;t want BIS to repeat mistakes of dozens others developers in past.
I don&#39;t want Armed Assault to become unplayable for multiplayer because cheats infest game and kill interest of people to stay.

[Kam2000]

I don&#39;t want Armed Assault to become unplayable for multiplayer because cheats infest game and kill interest of people to stay.
Right and for that we need A G-O-O-D A-N-T-I-C-H-E-A-T &#33;&#33;&#33;

http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/yay.gif

[Heatseeker]

...And PB is the best there is even if not perfect http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif . But it must be costy to the publishers, plus once comercial games (unlike AA) stop selling or sales drop support also drops for obvious reasons http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif , while the developers may still continue to support their fan base and users (Bohemia ofcourse) its unlikely that the publisher will continue to support it and there it goes evenbalance updates stop coming...
So in the long run were will always be screwed, unless drastic measures including legal action are taken.

[DBR_ONIX]

One thing... How much does it cost to use PunkBuster in a commercial game? (Like say Mr Blah creates a MP game, and uses PB, how much does PB cost). And how much would it cost to pay howevermany people to code a anti-cheat system?
I have no idea, but I can guess buying punkbuster will be a hell of a lot cheaper than coding your own, and it means you can spend time patching your game, rather than the anti-cheat stuff..
Maybe that is part of the reasons PB is used..?

As for the ID Changer, you could do what Valve did, and force you to register the code to a user account, and encrypt the files and decrypt them only when you login and enter the keycode.. Which then means you can trade the game in, or take it to friends house to play, and to install it to an internet-less gaming PC your screwed..
[/HL2 rant] http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif

@<hidden> said that you can&#39;t download games such as Doom 3 and Half Life 2, not true. Search on any P2P software and you get lots of results for cracked [game name here].. The tighter you lock a game down, the bigger the incentive is to crack it. But "subtle" things like OFP&#39;s FADE, IMHO, are more effictive, as people dont jump the the challenge of cracking something you see very little of. Where as with Valves complete-lock-down, people will instantly get annoyed at this, and try and find a way around, and most of the time, someone succeds..

Most anti-piracy/anti-cheat things are crackable, but BI are in the lucky position of not developing a "huge" game like HL2 or Doom3 (Super-Hyped* is maybe a better word http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif).

And "little" things like instead of having to make a trainer program to get invicibilty in Flashpoint, you can put a line of code in the mission..

One last thing, OFP is not like CSS, it&#39;s not about rankings, any game with a global ranking is asking to be screwed around with to get higher scores so that person can say "Hey look, I&#39;m 1020302231 points above someotherguy"

Sorry if this post/bits of it doesn&#39;t make sense, I repeat my self or you disagree with any of it. It&#39;s a combination of what I personalbly think, and me screwing up because it&#39;s just before 00: 00 http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif
- Ben

[Moving Target]

Implementing PB in ArmA would just ruin the game, all the cheat communities know how it works, and ways to get around it, so it would be better if BIS made their own anti cheat. After all, they wrote the software so they should know how to keep it safe. That way, the cheaters would have to spend a lot of time finding ways around.

[Dwarden]

...And PB is the best there is even if not perfect http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif . But it must be costy to the publishers, plus once comercial games (unlike AA) stop selling or sales drop support also drops for obvious reasons  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif , while the developers may still continue to support their fan base and users (Bohemia ofcourse) its unlikely that the publisher will continue to support it and there it goes evenbalance updates stop coming...
So in the long run were will always be screwed, unless drastic measures including legal action are taken.

Hmm , i suggest You take look at pages of two oldest PB covered games  and what You see as last update date? ...

Quake 3
03.May.2005

Enemy Territory
15.June.2005

etc ...

and related to cost ... everything what eats programmers time, bandwidth will cost something ...

but You should take in mind EBI supports one free game (ET) and from multiple intervies they given and discussion it seems they got no problem to offer PB for another free project ...

but of course if "developers" willing to implement it ... (everything is up to developers and/or publisher) and that&#39;s where is usually fails ... not on EBI or UnitedAdmins or else ...

[Baphomet]

I don&#39;t support any counter cheat measure that causes lag. Period. Or at least one that can&#39;t be disabled so that people who don&#39;t have to worry about cheaters (me). Can play with less lag than those who have to.

[Moving Target]

PunkBuster can help get rid of these "ID" problems...


because PB GUID is generated from CDkey ... so if You ban that GUID his accounts "linked" to that CD key are out of order for Your server ...

same goes for PB global GUID bans ...

and best is HardwareUID bans are based over this so he is globally banned + his machine is banned ...

and all this fear about "PB" limiting "moddability" of game are nonsense ... it can be easily configured to work ...

best combination for cheat free enviroment :

- any important operation must be calculated OR/AND re-checked at server (preventing speedhacking, animation skipping, unlimited ammos, position cheats etc)

- correctly programmed client (preventing easy bytehacking and memory editing)

- some inbuild anticheat solution from developers (like file checksums , remote game variables control/checking etc)

- support for external but tied to engine anticheat (like PunkBuster), this will prevent D3D hooks and any advanced low level crap ...

- SDK support for 3rd party anticheat solution (ideally written in way to be able cooperate with PB (ie game module for client and server which is "COVERED" by PB against modification)

this way ... it will be close to perfect
I would just like to add that in Americas army (version 2.4) the hackers and cheaters are running amok. It is hard to find one game without someone with super nades or aim bot, and what does Punkbuster do? Nothing. You cant even kick them as they just take over admin, or some of them dont even have a PB GUID http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif

[Dwarden]

PunkBuster can help get rid of these "ID" problems...


because PB GUID is generated from CDkey ... so if You ban that GUID his accounts "linked" to that CD key are out of order for Your server ...

same goes for PB global GUID bans ...

and best is HardwareUID bans are based over this so he is globally banned + his machine is banned ...

and all this fear about "PB" limiting "moddability" of game are nonsense ... it can be easily configured to work ...

best combination for cheat free enviroment :

- any important operation must be calculated OR/AND re-checked at server (preventing speedhacking, animation skipping, unlimited ammos, position cheats etc)

- correctly programmed client (preventing easy bytehacking and memory editing)

- some inbuild anticheat solution from developers (like file checksums , remote game variables control/checking etc)

- support for external but tied to engine anticheat (like PunkBuster), this will prevent D3D hooks and any advanced low level crap ...

- SDK support for 3rd party anticheat solution (ideally written in way to be able cooperate with PB (ie game module for client and server which is "COVERED" by PB against modification)

this way ... it will be close to perfect
I would just like to add that in Americas army (version 2.4)  the hackers and cheaters are running amok.  It is hard to find one game without someone with super nades or aim bot, and what does Punkbuster do?   Nothing.  You cant even kick them as they just take over admin, or some of them dont even have a PB GUID  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rofl.gif
Maybe You should ask AA developers why they left holes in engine code allowing cheaters do whatever they want ...

because primary PB was NOT hired to "fix" engine code bugs and exploits &#33;

yes PB does cover some but it&#39;s not as easy as You think as PB is not "fully" integrated into Unreal Engine as it should be ...

again that&#39;s problem more for AA game developers than EBI developers of PB ...

of course YOU can kick them , what about if You use instead of UNREAL ENGINE based "votekick" PunkBuster&#39;s based pb_kick ...

also w/o PB in AA that game will be TOTALLY unplayable ...
at least now we can use checks on client variables using PB ....

IF some don&#39;t have PB GUID then that&#39;s problem of LAME AA Auth system not PB&#39;s fault and You can setup PB server config to kick such person (delay etc) ...

from what You wrote i assume You are not AA server admin at all ...

[Dwarden]

I don&#39;t support any counter cheat measure that causes lag. Period. Or at least one that can&#39;t be disabled so that people who don&#39;t have to worry about cheaters (me). Can play with less lag than those who have to.
any today&#39;s AC system is "optionable" ... so i don&#39;t think this is reason to fear ... so You can always play on LAN or with trusted friends w/o it enabled ...

[Moving Target]

PB is anti cheat. If anti cheats cant stop cheats then whats the point paying for it, if the game has holes in ore not?

[sicilian]

PB is anti cheat.  If anti cheats cant stop cheats then whats the point paying for it, if the game has holes in ore not?
Because without anti cheats the cheaters can do ALWAYS what ever they want but with anti cheats they can only do their work as long as there are no updates for the anti cheat measurements out. Thats the point&#33;

Leaving them without any riposte they will ruin a game in the shortest time.

[Kam2000]

PB is anti cheat.  If anti cheats cant stop cheats then whats the point paying for it, if the game has holes in ore not?
Because without anti cheats the cheaters can do ALWAYS what ever they want but with anti cheats they can only do their work as long as there are no updates for the anti cheat measurements out. Thats the point&#33;

Leaving them without any riposte they will ruin a game in the shortest time.
And also because they can be caught http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/yay.gif

[SgtH3nry3]

Punkbuster will ruin the game. I have never had a problem with cheaters in ofp.
You probably not but I had alot of cheaters, since 2002 or something those trainers went around big time.

Quite annoying when people are shooting RPG&#39;s as some sort of MLRS thing...

Or of course rocket spammage from city to city...

[luemmel]

Its nice to see that many players have good ideas to improve the game concerning anti cheat possibilities. but it would be fantastic if we can have some official informations to this big issue.

at the moment, ofp is not playable due to the fact of many cheats for every one, provided by the website --- cheat source link removed ---

So, from my point of view, these guys have modified the origin game and i would be happy to see if someone bring them to justice.

And if i heard that ArA will support the orign game in anyway, i am very afraight that wie will have these problems some days after release of this best game ever.

[RalphWiggum]

please do not post link to cheats, or mention them.

[Crazy_lenny]

please do not post link to cheats, or mention them.
This makes me kind of angry  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif

You guys are behaving as if this is a small problem while the community has COMPLETLY been DESTROYED.
U will not find a cheat free server anymore&#33; All servers are infested with cheaters. Than we have the second fact that BIS only releases patches for the windows server(while linux servers are in the vast majority).
The only thing were ofp is still good for at this point is to make some addons or cheats and to test them, nothing more nothing less. league or squad play has become COMPLETLY IMPOSSIBLE

No we can&#39;t mention or say anything about it as if this will stop people from finding these very easely accessible cheats

Why don&#39;t you guys take legal action? those communites have registrated domain names. we know their webhost, we even have isp dailup names from several of those developers.

don&#39;t tell me that it is impossible for you when we can find this info very easely...... it is just that BIS doesn&#39;t care...

I am really sorry for this what offending post but it makes me REALLY unhappy/angry. BIS if you want to keep the largest part of communtiy they have to act now. Else they will loose a lot of people(and in the end, the only argument that apparently counts for them, you will sell much less games and make much less money)

[[TS]Varg]

We need a good anticheats for AA&#33;

Please&#33; http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/notworthy.gif

[Cycloon]

If we don&#39;t get a good Anticheat on AA, this game will be DOA.

For OFP it is ...... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/goodnight.gif

[luemmel]

sometimes i ask myself if bis has ever been played ofp online in the last 2 years. otherwise i cant understand that bis do not react in anyway concerning this huge problem.

for instance, ea / valve banned all servers / player accounts which have used modified server or game files. why can these companies use those possibilities and not BIS?

please, please BIS, do something against these cheating folks.
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/band.gif

[FCOPZ-Illuminator]

He Luemmel alter Kollege...

Take a look at this: New OFP Windows Dedi (http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=32;t=47454), posted yesterday.

Did you see that ? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

BIS is very busy at the moment, so i can understand this...

[Dwarden]

o.O ...


Quote[/b] ]1.96b - Improved: MP: Implemented more anti-cheat and anti-hacking measures.


sadly ... no "implemented PunkBuster as optionable anticheat solution " ...

that will so awsome ...

[dachrinne]

punkbuster would be great, and its downloaded in a few seconds

[Korax]

Punkbuster http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/icon_rolleyes.gif
Too much of a hassle and not even 100% effective.

I play Ofp MP every day always cheat free, because I play on a server that consists of 90% regulars, the (rare) cheater that comes in can easily be found and kicked. (Also, the server having a gigabyte of addons seems to keep cheaters out)


Quote[/b] ]for instance, ea / valve banned all servers / player accounts which have used modified server or game files. why can these companies use those possibilities and not BIS?
They cant do that because the game is so easily moddable, and there are so many different versions of game files that its hard not to get a modified config message when playing on a server with addons.

[luemmel]

He Luemmel alter Kollege...

Take a look at this: New OFP Windows Dedi (http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=32;t=47454), posted yesterday.

Did you see that ?  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

BIS is very busy at the moment, so i can understand this...
thx for info, it seems that some improvements were implemented. what i have found out so far is,

- no valid id&#39;s are blocked
- merged files are blocked

but i would prefer to log all the conection infos from the server into a file with the additional info of the connected ip. with this information we have the possibility to block special ips or ranges with the help of an ip blocker for live time :-)

but nevertheless, i see that we are on the right way, OFP rocks and i am waiting for ArA&#33;  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge2.gif

[FCOPZ-Illuminator]

Punkbuster not even 100% effective....

*hmpf* Punkbuster is a nice option, and works.

it&#39;s very effective ( if you can configure *g*)

Look ( screens taken with PB on our server ):

http://www.fcopz.net/fun/c4_2.png

other PB Screen1 (http://www.fcopz.net/fun/c4_1.png)

other PB Screen2 (http://www.fcopz.net/fun/c4_3.png)

The mainproblem, it&#39;s not so easy to configure ( the first time *g* ), but then you will "catch" the most cheater....

[Placebo]

Please don&#39;t hotlink images over 100kb http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[Kam2000]

I&#39;m also really happy ( and disgusted ) that BIS don&#39;t move it ass in this 2 years that all ofp players and clans said ---&#62; IT&#39;S UNPLAYABLE&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
Now all players and clans left OfP.



I don&#39;t know what we can do...
If we open a topic maybe BIS is happy because it have a new topic and discussion, so many posts and registered users...
But the problem is still not resolved after 2-3 years...

Maybe BIS don&#39;t care what we post but it care that we post.



ArA after 2 days will be like OfP NOW&#33;&#33;&#33;
if BIS don&#39;t undestand, OfP like now we mean UNPLAYABLE&#33;&#33;&#33;

follow this steps:

1) Open ASE
2) Check Servers with players ( if you find only one it&#39;s a miracle )
3) Join a game and play


IT&#39;S UNPLAYABLE&#33;&#33;&#33; U-N-P-L-A-Y-A-B-L-E from 2 years&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; 2 YEARS&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; 2 Y-E-A-R-S

It mean for 2 years you don&#39;t resolved the problem, you don&#39;t care what we all posted and asked, just 1 think&#33;&#33;&#33;


ok let&#39;s see...
like always...
sometimes realease some patch ---&#62; fixed some features



OfP community ask only 1 good anticheat ---&#62; FIX CHEATS&#33;&#33;&#33; FIX OFP&#33;&#33;&#33; FIX ALL&#33;&#33;&#33; FIX what you want but i want play ofp like 3-4 years ago.

uffff grrr  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif

[.kju [PvPscene]]

well Kam i think it didnt choose the right words http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/whistle.gif

though its really a shame in my opinion that with this official forum the illusion is created that its almost only about Mods and Addons.
yet after all this ofp is really about missions and multiplayer ... otherwise only very few people would have played this game.

MEC was a start - i do strongly hope that we can see more support from BIS here in the future.

as people arlready stated, ArmA has the chance to be sucessful - yet if the cheat problem isnt addressed from the start and on going combated, ArmA will be dead much faster than ofp in terms of mp at least ...

[Kam2000]

as people arlready stated, ArmA has the chance to be sucessful - yet if the cheat problem isnt addressed from the start and on going combated, ArmA will be dead much faster than ofp in terms of mp at least ...
i think ArA will dead in 1 week maximum.

If i undestand well all addons and mod will be easy to convert from OfP to ArA, so i think also the cheats&#33;&#33;&#33;

Only 1 week and after will be like now...
And BIS will release some patch ---&#62; fixed the soldier shoes and some features

Cheaters still remaining

We report in BIS forum

BIS will continue release some patch ---&#62; fixed soldier smile and features

All will left ArA and will go to play others game

ArA dead

BIS will annunce OfP 3 for 2030

...
...
...


grrr http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif



Sorry for my english http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/notworthy.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/banghead.gif

[.kju [PvPscene]]

well i do understand your anger about the tkc guys and limited things BIS does / can do http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/confused_o.gif

[Dwarden]

i dont think Armed Assault will die so fast ...

OFP not died fast (hell still some people plays it both SP and MP)

OFPR not died yet (lot of people still plays it SP and MP)

so how come You think it will die in days or weeks ?

even if it&#39;s just "perfectionized" update to to OFPR ... i will go and buy it ... because sorry but JO and BF2 shown to me that OFP:CWC and OFP:R were totally unique games ...

but to keep "LOT" of players , clans and leagues INTERESTED into Armed Assault ...

BIS must add anticheat of high quality ...

if BIS don&#39;t want concentrate on making own (they can instead concentrate on game itself) ...

they should discuss with EvenBalance Inc. and implement PunkBuster ...

everyone will gain ...

another option is that BIS release own anticheat but because they will be not able "match" with cheat coders it will burn sooner or later...

of course IMHO best way is combine internal, external and custom AC ...

- BIS will include own sort of anticheat as basic/default

- BIS release "AntiCheat SDK" (modders and admins can code own additions to security)

- BIS include PunkBuster (where PunkBuster will cooperate with both BIS&#39;s anticheat and SDK made anticheats , working as protective layer (ie preventing moddifications to these etc))

and so on ...

because ... for success in MultiPlayer market .... fun is everything and game looses fun if there are cheaters ...

[Crazy_lenny]

*looking into it*

[ninjatek]

I mainly played OFP via LAN parties, and via that type of connection it was ok, Internet MP was a nightmare. Increadibly difficult to get into a game, and game usually lagged so bad couldn&#39;t hit anything. But I&#39;ve also noticed some BF2 games also lag just as bad. JO lagged too with like 150 players but wasn&#39;t as unplayble as the others. I&#39;m sure BIS has done some refinement to their network code for AA...You have, right, BIS?

I hope they add Assault and Advance type missions like JO, and not Conquest like in BF2. Where you have to take bases that are closes to each other to advance instead of being able to just ninja around to the back of enemy lines and back ninja a base, that is annoying in BF2, but where it would be worste in AA because the maps will be so much larger.

[benreeper]

You havn&#39;t played many user missions or mods have you?
--Ben