Black Hawk Down

[Virusx86]

Who's gunna see it? I know i will... guns + explosions + spec ops = movie that'll make me want to play OP FP when i get home http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

I figure i can't be alone... well, maybe i am, but it's not TOO likely http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Assault (CAN)]

Lets hope that the movie makers do justice to the novel and to the soldiers and not "hollywoodize" it too much.

Tyler

[Wobble]

From the 'reviews' ive seen it stays pretty much true to form to the orignal incident.. I.E. not a happy ending.. nothing like that..

I dont see how it could be a bad movie.. but I also said that when I first heard of perl harbor... and enima at the gates... shit, its gonna suck http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Assault (CAN)]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">enima at the gates...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
LOL, bend over Tanya http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

P.S. sorry about the 2 other posts, my mistake. I finally got the quote stuff to work&#33;

[vitoal125]

anything that jerry bruckheimer is involved with (except The Rock) really hasn&#39;t been worth seeing for me.

[Frizbee]

The Rock was the last Jerry Bruckheimer movie that I really loved straight away..

it was also (coincidence maybe?) the last Movie Don Simpson helped make before he died.

[foxer]

Black hawk down is really a grreat movie,no women,just action.Also lots of Gore,like when the rpg got fired at the truck a us soldier got throw outta the 5-ton truck and half of his torso was missing.

[Ex-RoNiN]

are they gonna show the rpg that got stuck in alphabet&#39;s chest? poor sod http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[foxer]

Yes they do,They show how all the guys died i believe.Even the delta force snipers that rope down and got killed.

[foxer]

WAit half his torso wasn&#39;t missing,from his torso down was gone.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @<hidden> Jan. 15 2002,02:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">WAit half his torso wasn&#39;t missing,from his torso down was gone.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
So his torso was complete? That&#39;s good... http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

I can&#39;t wait for this movie to open this friday.

[caz]

the book was VERY good

i remember the part about the small heli&#39;s flying down the streets blasting away with their mini-guns and just thinking to myself &#39;fuking hell&#33;&#33;&#39;

[Fenna]

Hey that film comes out in the UK on my birthday http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Assault (CAN)]

I hope they put in the scene where the guys in the chopper shoot up the cow with the mini-gun&#33; http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Tyler

[Anonymous]

I wanna see that donkey that keeps walking between storms of bullets and somehow survives.

[Hasha]

What happened to the soldiers in the end? All got killed or escaped in the chopper or the Humvee?

[Assault (CAN)]

18 soldiers died, plus a helluva lot more Somalis or "skinnys" as the U.S. soldiers called them.

The rest got out in an Armoured column. 1 other guy was captured but returned.

Personally, I like the slur "Starvin&#39; Marvin."

[Assault (CAN)]

LOL, I also recall from the book that the pilot of the (OH5)? referred to his MP-5 as his "skinny-popper"

I heard recently that U.S. intelligence believes that Osama has escaped to one of his freindly countries, possibly Somalia. Looks like U.S. soldiers might be going back there. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

Tyler

Im gonna go see aswell as that we were soldiers.

[Ex-RoNiN]

Yeah, but this time it will be the full military force. The somali&#39;s are gonna get butchered. All this for maybe 50 al-qaida associates.

Somalia is overrated as a target.

It is hardly a country even&#33;

[ran]

just a question :
did you see in the last minute of the film the wheeled armored vehicle of the column ? it&#39;s a VAB

[Fenna]

That&#39;s great ran.

[ran]

IT&#39;S A FRENCH VEHICLE

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Fenna]

Oh yes, aren&#39;t the french so great.

[Placebo]

The French I&#39;ve met have all been damn fine people, having spent time in both London and Paris I would much prefer to spend time in Paris http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Wobble]

LOL, when my buggy got his 7mag we nick named it "The Turban Poker"

[Fenix83]

what film are you all talking about

je comprend plus rien, lŕ... http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

http://www.onzin.nl/3654/pictures/6thsense.jpg

Whats the Topic called




Ps im only f00lin around.

[DaisyCutter]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"skinnys" as the U.S. soldiers called them.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Yup, we called Operation Restore Hope: Operation Skinny Kid. Was in Mogadishu from Jan to May &#39;93. Man, that place sucked.

[Hawkeye]

I just saw the Film, I gotta say it is one of the best movie&#39;s I&#39;ve ever seen. It really moved me. What is the title of the book you guy&#39;s were refering too?

[AmbushBug]

The book is called Blackhawk Down as well.

[Hilandor]

yeah look forward to seeing it looks fantastic

did watch behind enemy lines last night with the same anticipation as BHD and was sorely dissapointed =[[

[Virusx86]

The movie is called Black Hawk Down, i&#39;ve just started calling it that rather than Blackhawk Down... I just saw it, i have to say it&#39;s pretty damn good, it&#39;s odd, but as recently as a month ago it was listed as being PG-13, but after seeing it, there&#39;s no way in hell it could have been rated that.... wonder what that was about....

[NVA Killer]

it was rated R. the movie was amazing. sad, very sad but amazing none the less. Eric Bana was good in it too.

Its Black Hawk Down, the helicopter is a Black Hawk, no idea why people keep making it 1 word when its really 2. Blackhawk is an indian tribe http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Mister Frag]

By the way, there are high-res satellite pictures of the areas involved available HERE (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/somalia/imagery.htm).

[sgtvor]

Yeah, the movie is VERY good. For the most part it didn&#39;t seem like any of the more recent Bruckheimer movies at all. From what I can recall, there&#39;s only one instance in the movie that I&#39;m quite sure they embellished on a bit, anyones who&#39;s read the book will notice it. Otherwise, it held pretty well to what was written.

For those of you who&#39;ve read the book, you&#39;ll probably get a lot more out of it than the general movie going audience. Actually, I found it kinda funny that there were a LOT of groups of teenage girls in the theater. The Josh Hartnett angle I suppose....anyways, I&#39;m sure they appreciated the battlefield surgury scene http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif The ones I saw leaving the theater didn&#39;t look so pleased.

All in all, excellent movie. Easily one of the best I&#39;ve seen in quite awhile.

SgtVor

[christophercles]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @<hidden> Jan. 18 2002,01:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">IT&#39;S A FRENCH VEHICLE

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif  http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif  http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif  http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The armoured column that went in wasnt american, they got it from another country, i cant remember who, the pakistani&#39;s or something.

[NVA Killer]

actually, it was a mix, UN Pakistani and US Army10th Moutain Division.

yeah i noticed some kids dressed all "thug", kind of funny to see them, they didn&#39;t strike me as the kind to appreciate that kind of movie. heh, over all, my favorite movie. might go see it tonight again.

[Fenna]

I&#39;m going to see it tonight.

[ran]

yes , but i didn&#39;t know that RVI has sold some VAB to the pakistan

[NVA Killer]

RVI, VAB?

[Nuku]

I just saw the movie myself. It&#39;s very good, and very graphic. Most critics put it best when they describe the gore level as "the Omaha Beach scene of "Saving Private Ryan" stretched over 2.5 hours".

I think anyone who likes OFP and like games will find this movie very interesting. It&#39;s been canned by most other groups looking for something else: e.g. an anti-war statement; character development; drama; etc.

Black Hawk down pretty much tells (and shows in graphic detail) what happened, when, where, and how it went. It&#39;s more like a documentary (similar to "Tora Tora Tora" or "Gettysburg") than a general entertainment flick (like "Saving Private Ryan" or "All Quiet on the Western Front"). There is no sappy political or moral statement made; no character development; no plot twists. And for this reason alone, it&#39;s been canned by many critics (who were apparently looking for something else -- I guess they never read the book).

Overall the movie just shows the events from a third/first person perspective. Anyone who tries to make anything more out of the movie is a fool.

[Wobble]

lots of critics get pissy if a movie doesent "EDUCATE" people..

bullshit&#33; I go to college to learn, I go to the movies to see shit im interested in.

[Fenna]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @<hidden> Jan. 19 2002,20:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">yes , but i didn&#39;t know that RVI has sold some VAB to the pakistan[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
ran stfu about french stuff. did u see the black hawks ? they were american. did u see the humvees ? they were american.
did u see some of the land rovers ? they were british. did u see some of those little cool helicopters ? they were american.

[ran]

yes , but in the end of the film , the in the armored column there was 6 wheeled VAB&#39;s , certainly pakistanis ones

[NVA Killer]

yeah, the APC&#39;s. i know germany has something like those.

[christophercles]

The armoured division in the end in the end didnt have any american equipment in it. After reading the book, i found that the tanks at the forward were pakistani, and the apc&#39;s were malaysian.

[ran]

AH
I WAS RIGHT

[ChickenHawk]

That actual title of the film is BlackHawk Down. BlackHawk is the name of the type of helicopter that was shot down. Blackhawk is an Indian tribe as most of the helicopter names are based on Indian tribes.

UH-1 Huey=Iroquois
AH64D=Apache
OH46 or somethin=Kiowa
RAH66=Comanche

[762WorldOrder]

"lots of critics get pissy if a movie doesent "EDUCATE" people.."

No, critics are just idiots that have pathetic little lives in which they think their opinion about moving pictures on a screen are worth something.

And believe me, anyone who&#39;s watched the likes of Blackhawk Down and Saving Private Ryan has gotten an education, indeed. I know I did.

[Fenna]

All american helicopters are named after tribes, such as the spear chuckers.

[ChickenHawk]

ran stfu about french stuff. did u see the black hawks ? they were american. did u see the humvees ? they were american.
did u see some of the land rovers ? they were british. did u see some of those little cool helicopters ? they were american.



Chill dood I admire rans patriotism.

[Fenna]

Says you with a Pic of Nelson as an avatar&#33;

[ChickenHawk]

You dont like patriotism?

[Longinius]

Patriotism can be OK. It can also be very dangerous. And it can also be borderline comical.

[Fenna]

ChickenHawk i was actually joking. you said something about what i posted (i.e. anti-french). so, i said says you with a pic of NELSON WHO FOUGHT AGAINST THE FRENCH as an avatar.

[Oligo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
From Jeff Koinange
CNN

MOGADISHU, Somalia (CNN) -- Somalis watching a bootleg video of "Black Hawk Down" on Monday cheered as helicopters crashed and U.S. servicemen were killed in the new movie.

Just days after the film&#39;s widespread release in the United States, hundreds of Somalis crowded into an outdoor playground Monday to watch one of the first bootleg copies to reach Somalia.

The film, which was No. 1 at the U.S. box office over the weekend, depicts the ill-fated 1993 Battle of Mogadishu in which 18 American soldiers were killed.

The United States was in Somalia to try to capture powerful Somali warlord Mohammed Aidid from his stronghold in the war-torn capital and take him to a ship anchored off the nearby coast. But by the end of the 16-hour battle in which commandos tried to seize several of Aidid&#39;s top lieutenants, 18 elite Army Rangers and hundreds of Somalis lay dead in the streets of Mogadishu.

At the screening, Somalis paid the equivalent of 10 U.S. cents to watch the movie, less than a mile from where a real Black Hawk helicopter went down.

Audience members seemed to take delight in scenes of U.S. defeat. Each time an American chopper went down in the film, the audience cheered. Every time an American serviceman was killed, the audience cheered some more.

Ahmed Abdullah said he witnessed the actual battle and saw the movie as more fiction than fact.

"It&#39;s not fair what the U.S. is trying to do," he said. "What I saw that day was different from what I see in the film today. It&#39;s not accurate."

Others said the movie brings back disturbing memories of a day they&#39;ll never forget.

"I felt very sad watching the film," one woman said.

Some in the audience said they were proud of the way Somalis were portrayed in the film. They said they believe they were defending their country and their pride against what they considered U.S. military aggression.

U.S. officials have said they are concerned that members of al Qaeda, the terrorist network led by Osama bin Laden, could try to regroup in Somalia so the country may be a possible next target in the war on terrorism.

But some audience members had a warning for the United States.

"As you can see, Somalis are brave fighters," one man said. "If the Americans come back to fight us, we shall defeat them again."

Said another, "Let them try again. They&#39;ll be making more films about us when we defeat them like we did that day."

[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I guess there are two sides to every coin... http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[ChickenHawk]

oic, ran should get a pic of Napolean lol..

[christophercles]

Those somalian fools. So they were cheering when the blackhawks went down? i wonder what they did when they saw the 1100+ somalian militia men being killed. If the america was to go back to somalia, this time they wouldnt land troops. I think the little birds showed a good example of what a rotary gun can do too a pack of somalian rioters, except this time it will be coming from an ac-130.

[Hasha]

Or a nice Tomahawk cruise missile with the writing: Here you mother- F-cuker somali rioters, Your ticket to Hell has Arrived.

I am gonna watch this movie next week, exams, sign.........

I think the Somalis are sick&#33; How can they cheer and be happy at the sight of a human being killed?

[ran]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ChickenHawk @<hidden> Jan. 23 2002,15:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">oic, ran should get a pic of Napolean lol..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
ok http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[ChickenHawk]

LOL http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Any yanks here? We could have George Washington too..

[ran]

any german here we could have Adol.... no i was going to say a stupidity
Mozart is not a politic or a warchief ....... rommel .... nah too modern .......

[Fenna]

Americans should have Elvis.

[Red Oct]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Those somalian fools. So they were cheering when the blackhawks went down? i wonder what they did when they saw the 1100+ somalian militia men being killed. If the america was to go back to somalia, this time they wouldnt land troops. I think the little birds showed a good example of what a rotary gun can do too a pack of somalian rioters, except this time it will be coming from an ac-130.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
damn strait, if we go back we are gona give&#39;em some pepper
from the vicious AC-130 spectures and catching 2 1/2 ton bombs in what few teeth they have from our B-52s

[Frizbee]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ChickenHawk @<hidden> Jan. 22 2002,14:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You dont like patriotism?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious...

-according to Oscar Wilde.

[Oligo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hasharajima @<hidden> Jan. 23 2002,16:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Or a nice Tomahawk cruise missile with the writing: Here you mother- F-cuker somali rioters, Your ticket to Hell has Arrived.

I am gonna watch this movie next week, exams, sign.........

I think the Somalis are sick&#33; How can they cheer and be happy at the sight of a human being killed?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Man, when I read this post I laughed my ass off. In the first sentences, the dupe verbally describes how U.S. should shoot Tomahawks at the civilians of another country (and thus kill them). Then in the next sentence he wonders how awful it is that somebody can cheer at the sight of a human being killed.
http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Come on man, tell me you were joking. I mean, are you for real?

[Fenix83]

I did not know that it was a forum of fascistic nationalist and other vermin... http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

what do think you think, you American, that we think, us other foreigners, when you speak like that about the somalis.

[christophercles]

Hey the somalis shot down american helicopters that were trying to detain a criminal, they deserve what they get.

[Dr Bibber]

OMFG, how can people be influenced by just some other dumbass hollywood movie?

This has to be the most pathetic thing i have ever seen on the net, even more pathetic then l337 talk

"Hey the somalis shot down american helicopters that were trying to detain a criminal, they deserve what they get. "

So?...the US is responsible for killing more then a ˝ million Iraqi childeren.

People like you need to be removed from the gene pool.

[Dr Bibber]

"I think the Somalis are sick&#33; How can they cheer and be happy at the sight of a human being killed?"

I think the Americans are sick&#33; How can they cheer and be happy at a sight of dropping a nuke on Japan and kill thousands of people and trying to destroy their infrastructure?

[ran]

et paf
(i&#39;m sure that fenix will know what i want to say)

[madmike]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"I think the Somalis are sick&#33; How can they cheer and be happy at the sight of a human being killed?"

I think the Americans are sick&#33; How can they cheer and be happy at a sight of dropping a nuke on Japan and kill thousands of people and trying to destroy their infrastructure?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


Problem is humans like to kill each other its just the way we are.
I dont agree with it in most cases though.
If you think how the taliban think for example, they dont like the world and people to be driven by money which is why they targeted the WTC.

They do have point but Osama Bin Laden is a millionaire and had shares and stuff before he became wanted so I dont think that is right.

[Wobble]

So?...the US is responsible for killing more then a ˝ million Iraqi childeren.

opinion courtesy of Saddam propagenda and no real commin sense..

think the Americans are sick&#33; How can they cheer and be happy at a sight of dropping a nuke on Japan and kill thousands of people and trying to destroy their infrastructure?

well.. lets see

1: Japan STARTED the war by launching a attack without declaring war.. which is wrong..

2: ya ever hear what the COMMIN treatment for POWs of teh Japanese? beheadings (for fun) and using them for bayonet practice was the norm, not the exception..

dropping the Nukes saved more people than they killed.. seeing as how the entire contanent of Japan was brainwashed by the emporor to kill themselves before surrender..

[Dr Bibber]

You are right about that, i was being a little bit sarcastic.

But being influenced by some other "hollywoodized" stupid movie is just plain sad

[Wobble]

I know what ya mean.. Enima at the gates.. Perl Harbor AWFUL&#33; I hear Blackhawk down is more of a documentary than it is a movie... no love story.. no lesson to be learned.. just a really good and graphic reinactment of what happened..

I hope to see it this week.

[Oligo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @<hidden> Jan. 24 2002,22:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1: Japan STARTED the war by launching a attack without declaring war.. which is wrong..

2: ya ever hear what the COMMIN treatment for POWs of teh Japanese? beheadings (for fun) and using them for bayonet practice was the norm, not the exception..

dropping the Nukes saved more people than they killed.. seeing as how the entire contanent of Japan was brainwashed by the emporor to kill themselves before surrender..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

WTF?&#33; Are you actually trying to explain that dropping the nukes was the right thing to do? Man, you&#39;re talking about the most horrible atrocity that has ever happened on Earth&#33; Nukes are way too horrible weapons ever to be used. First you blow the crap out of thousands of people and injure countless others. Then you poison the land with radiation, effectively killing people for years and years. You are actually killing and maiming unborn children. Your atrocity will have an effect for generations and generations...

Wobble, even you cannot be such a blind yank that you try to justify that. Just admit that this one thing U.S. did was wrong.

[The Ferret]

And it got even worse...that radiation awoke Godzeera&#33;
Not to mention Gamera...and it stunted the growth of those two little women who ride around on Mothra&#33;

How many times must Godzeera trample Tokyo before those poor bastard Japs will have paid for bombing Pearl Harbor?

The Japs said they were solly, and I for one accept their apology&#33;

Let&#39;s get that big lizard back to Monster Island were he belongs.

[Placebo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @<hidden> Jan. 25 2002,10:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Man, you&#39;re talking about the most horrible atrocity that has ever happened on Earth&#33;[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Personally I consider the Holocaust the most horrible atrocity that has ever happened, but I guess we&#39;re all entitled to our opinions.

[Pete]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @<hidden> Jan. 26 2002,01:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Man, you&#39;re talking about the most horrible atrocity that has ever happened on Earth&#33;[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Personally I consider the Holocaust the most horrible atrocity that has ever happened, but I guess we&#39;re all entitled to our opinions.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
agreed....but stalin did a lot more bad things during/after the war.

the nazis holocaust is very horrible, specially when they killed to exterminate a whole "group" of people totally


the red khmeres (sp?) were bad, and they were stopped only when the vietnamese got in and kicked them after the vietnam war, other wise they too would have gone more "kills" than hitler.


those 3 are the top 3 i quess.


the 2 nukes were horrible, but at the time "somewhat" justified, wrong targets tho...but back then it was the normal thing to do when you kill civilians.


im in no way defending the decision to nuke tho, only saying that of many bads they werent the worst.

[Daishi]

I am not an American, so whatever I said should not be taken as american-biased.

The World War is a massive tragedy of humanity. In a war, there is no such thing as right. Everything is wrong. You fight to kill the enemy.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki are just sacrifices for peace. If the A-bombs were not used, if America and her Allies were to continue with Operation Olympic and invade Japan, I doubt Japan would exist as it does today.

Japanese were known to be suicidal, civilians and military personel alike. Just look at the Battles for Okinawa and Iwo Jima. Casualties were incredibly high for both sides, and the civilians would rather die than surrender to the "imperialist" Allies.

Using those battles as a good predictor of what will happen if the Allies were to invade Japan, the casualties of World War 2 can easily double and Japan would be nothing but scorch earth.

As for whether it is right or wrong to use the A-bomb, I have no answers. We do have benefit of the hindsight, President Harry Truman doesn&#39;t. Luckily, it turned out to be a good decision and the world had peace (after the surrender of Japan). To judge the act, just look at the result: Japan is the 2nd largest economy of the world (for now). It is one of the most modern society, and its global standing is similarly high. If an invasion took place, rather than the A-bombs, would Japan be where it is today?

[Placebo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Daishi @<hidden> Jan. 26 2002,08:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The World War is a massive tragedy of humanity. In a war, there is no such thing as right. Everything is wrong. You fight to kill the enemy.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I agree completely, 50-70M dead depending on who/what you read, there can be no joy taken from that, no victory....

WWII was a defeat for mankind, a great loss of humanity that needn&#39;t have happened, Hitler and the Nazis would never have gotten into power if we hadn&#39;t beaten Germany into the depths of despair with the Versailles treaty.

Just my tuppence http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Well if hitler did not come to power, stalin would have marched on europe.

[Placebo]

What do you base that statement on? Personally I was always of the impression he had enough work on his hands beating his own people into submission, that and having anyone/everyone executed that his paranoid mind told him was up to no good.........

[Blink Dog]

Just saw BHD today. I was pleasently impressed. I thought going into it that it would be like Pearl Harbour with happy american ending, but I was wrong. I especially liked the mini guns.

[Oligo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Daishi @<hidden> Jan. 26 2002,09:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hiroshima and Nagasaki are just sacrifices for peace. If the A-bombs were not used, if America and her Allies were to continue with Operation Olympic and invade Japan, I doubt Japan would exist as it does today.

Japanese were known to be suicidal, civilians and military personel alike. Just look at the Battles for Okinawa and Iwo Jima. Casualties were incredibly high for both sides, and the civilians would rather die than surrender to the "imperialist" Allies.

Using those battles as a good predictor of what will happen if the Allies were to invade Japan, the casualties of World War 2 can easily double and Japan would be nothing but scorch earth.

As for whether it is right or wrong to use the A-bomb, I have no answers. We do have benefit of the hindsight, President Harry Truman doesn&#39;t. Luckily, it turned out to be a good decision and the world had peace (after the surrender of Japan). To judge the act, just look at the result: Japan is the 2nd largest economy of the world (for now). It is one of the most modern society, and its global standing is similarly high. If an invasion took place, rather than the A-bombs, would Japan be where it is today?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah, it also seems that the Sep. 11. thingy has only produced good results, since Bush finally got his head out of his a*** and maybe will start to think a little more globally. If this crap didn&#39;t go down, you can be sure that he would have just carried on giving the rest of the world the finger. I&#39;m still sure, though, that anybody who bought it under the towers doesn&#39;t see things quite like that. Or their family.

I&#39;m just trying to say that the A-bomb is very much unlike any other weapon we have. It is quite old already, but we haven&#39;t managed to come up with anything quite as horrible for a long time. Now that it has been used in anger, the genie is out of the bottle and it&#39;s just a little easier to use it in the future. You know, just so that you can do some good, save some lives.

The holocaust was bad, but it consisted of many atrocities coming in succession. The a-bombs were the worst single acts of inhumanity in the history of our species.

Alot of countries are using the excuse of "We&#39;re Fighting them because the&#39;re terrorists" but they never said this before, such as india and pakistan.

[Frizbee]

I&#39;m not American, but in my opinion The United States dropping the nuclear weapons on Japan, although horrible, was necessary to prevent the deaths of millions of allied servicemen and women, and countless more civilians at the hands of the Japanese.

I have no doubt that the war would have lasted many more bloody years, with an even higher death toll had the Japanese not been bombed.

It also served as a warning to everyone just how terrible such weapons were, perhaps preventing a much more disasterous use of them during the cold war..

just think what would have happened had Russia or the US thought "Well I can always launch these...."

[Wobble]

WTF?&#33; Are you actually trying to explain that dropping the nukes was the right thing to do?

Yes, seeing as how if not then its likley Japan would not have surrendered, and the emp ("god") had instructed the people of the Empire to die fighting or commit suicide before allowing capture or defeat.. and from what was seen in the island hopping up to that point it was obvious they would do exactly that..  evern man woman and child in the Japanese empire was ordered by their GOD to either die fighting or kill themselves.. and they would have done it... needless to say the number of dead would be well in excess of how many people the 2 nukes would EVER kill.

Man, you&#39;re talking about the most horrible atrocity that has ever happened on Earth&#33;

whats horrible is the fact that given the situation, it was the best thing to do (for both sides).. thats what is horrible.

Wobble, even you cannot be such a blind yank that you try to justify that. Just admit that this one thing U.S. did was wrong

its an uncontestable fact that the dropping of the Atomic bombs saved more people.. allied and Japanese than continueing the war.. so no the US was not wrong in its decision to use them.

sucks to be proven wrong by a "blind yank" doesent it http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

The a-bombs were the worst single acts of inhumanity in the history of our species.
in hind sight it was the best thing that could have happened to Japan given the circumstances... it offered the lest possable loss of life..  and compared to the Japanese atrocities on its POWs, the holocaust, the Stalin purges.. as far as being "inhumain" it doesent even come close..  it was done for military reasons.. with the goal of winning the war.. the Japanese atrocities were done... well pretty much for fun.. the holocause was a sadistic attempt to rid an entire race from the earth, and the stalin purges were ruthless foundless murders carried out under the sadistic and practically insane whimes of a paranoid madman dictator.



lets also not forget that the target cities (Hirshima and Nagasaki) were targeted because they were massive production centers, NOT because of population..

the US could have just as easily dropped the bombs on more densly populated cities.. INCLUDING TOKYO, abd vaporized the emporer...

and as a final though: more civilians were killed in the Drezden(sp) firestorm when the RAF firebombed it than died in either Hiroshima or Nagasaki..

and all sides bombed civilian targets in WW2.. so dont dare try to make the US some sort of villian for doing it.. hipocritic ass.

[Oligo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @<hidden> Jan. 28 2002,09:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes, seeing as how if not then its likley Japan would not have surrendered, and the emp ("god") had instructed the people of the Empire to die fighting or commit suicide before allowing capture or defeat.. and from what was seen in the island hopping up to that point it was obvious they would do exactly that.. evern man woman and child in the Japanese empire was ordered by their GOD to either die fighting or kill themselves.. and they would have done it... needless to say the number of dead would be well in excess of how many people the 2 nukes would EVER kill.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I think you have all proven the point about them dying rather than surrendering. But why did you need them to surrender? Why not make peace? You already got the islands back. Just make peace and let them tackle their shit on their four islands, surrounded by hostile nations. They would have fallen in no-time and kicked their "god" out.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">its an uncontestable fact that the dropping of the Atomic bombs saved more people.. allied and Japanese than continueing the war.. so no the US was not wrong in its decision to use them.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I wonder how many people would have been saved by just containing the morons on their island. No man, the reason you used the a-bombs was that you wanted the war over as soon as possible so that your boyz could go home to eat some apple pie. Well worth wasting some civvies.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">sucks to be proven wrong by a "blind yank" doesent it
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

The reason I called you a "blind yank" (and I apologize for that) is because I doubt that you can come up with even one thing the U.S. has done wrong. So can you publicly point out even one such thing of your country? To show good faith, I&#39;ll reciprocate: Finland (my country) should have stood more firmly and not given even those few jews to the nazis. It&#39;s a shame our country did such a bad thing.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">in hind sight it was the best thing that could have happened to Japan given the circumstances... it offered the lest possable loss of life.. and compared to the Japanese atrocities on its POWs, the holocaust, the Stalin purges.. as far as being "inhumain" it doesent even come close.. it was done for military reasons.. with the goal of winning the war.. the Japanese atrocities were done... well pretty much for fun.. the holocause was a sadistic attempt to rid an entire race from the earth, and the stalin purges were ruthless foundless murders carried out under the sadistic and practically insane whimes of a paranoid madman dictator.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

You&#39;re right in pointing out how evil those people were. We all agree on that. But dropping nukes on people (civvies or soldiers) is still wrong. It is an atrocity and no good intentions can justify it. I bet Hitler thought that he was doing good with his shit.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and as a final though: more civilians were killed in the Drezden(sp) firestorm when the RAF firebombed it than died in either Hiroshima or Nagasaki..

and all sides bombed civilian targets in WW2.. so dont dare try to make the US some sort of villian for doing it.. hipocritic ass.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

The firebombing of Dresden was an atrocity as well. So was bombing London and Stalingrad and Helsinki and whatever. Everybody who did it IS on some level a villain (includes my country). The point is to remember what you did and try to avoid it in the future. I&#39;m not trying to be a hipocrite, but your country is also bad (although not the worst).

[Fenix83]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @<hidden> Jan. 24 2002,22:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So?...the US is responsible for killing more then a ˝ million Iraqi childeren.

opinion courtesy of Saddam propagenda and no real commin sense..

think the Americans are sick&#33; How can they cheer and be happy at a sight of dropping a nuke on Japan and kill thousands of people and trying to destroy their infrastructure?

well.. lets see

1: Japan STARTED the war by launching a attack without declaring war.. which is wrong..

2: ya ever hear what the COMMIN treatment for POWs of teh Japanese? beheadings (for fun) and using them for bayonet practice was the norm, not the exception..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
In June 1997, after 7 years of criminal sanctions, the United Nations, the UNICEF, the WHO (the World Health Organization) and of WFP (World Food Program) estimated at 1,2 million the number of deaths, because of the shortage of food and drugs, including 750.000 children of less than 5 years old.

The first secretary Madeleine Albreight said, when she knew that :

the price is worth paying

If I knew that my government had caused that, I would not be proud to be an american...

for your culture concerning Japan: You do not know who realy directed Japan. You think simply that there were the nice ones (allies) and the malicious ones (Bloody japs). To tell the truth, the emperor did not direct any more Japan, they were his militarist ministers who decided to enter in war for mainly economic reasons.
Question: If the Japanese people were suicidal why did they abdicate after two bombs nuclear power?
The answer: simply because American had needs to test their bomb on a real city&#33;

Et paf &#33;
Je detestes je plus en plus les ricains
(i&#39;m sure that ran will know what i want to say)
http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[christophercles]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Dr Bibber @<hidden> Jan. 25 2002,02:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OMFG, how can people be influenced by just some other dumbass hollywood movie?

This has to be the most pathetic thing i have ever seen on the net, even more pathetic then l337 talk

"Hey the somalis shot down american helicopters that were trying to detain a criminal, they deserve what they get. "

So?...the US is responsible for killing more then a ˝ million Iraqi childeren.

People like you need to be removed from the gene pool.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
U fool&#33;&#33;&#33; so i deserve to be removed from the gene pool, because i think that people shouldnt shoot at others while they are detaining a criminal? ok, next time a guy is raping you in the ass, it should be allowable that the cops are allowed to be detained from coming to your rescue?

It isnt a "dumbass hollywood movie" im being influenced by, its the facts of the real life event.
Who brought up iraq?? anyway, if suddam hadnt leaked information that they were hiding scuds in hospitals and in schoolyards, those children wouldnt have had to die.

[Fenix83]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (christophercles @<hidden> Jan. 28 2002,13:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OMFG, how can people be influenced by just some other dumbass hollywood movie?

This has to be the most pathetic thing i have ever seen on the net, even more pathetic then l337 talk

"Hey the somalis shot down american helicopters that were trying to detain a criminal, they deserve what they get. "

So?...the US is responsible for killing more then a ˝ million Iraqi childeren.

People like you need to be removed from the gene pool.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
U fool&#33;&#33;&#33; so i deserve to be removed from the gene pool, because i think that people shouldnt shoot at others while they are detaining a criminal? ok, next time a guy is raping you in the ass, it should be allowable that the cops are allowed to be detained from coming to your rescue?

It isnt a "dumbass hollywood movie" im being influenced by, its the facts of the real life event.
Who brought up iraq?? anyway, if suddam hadnt leaked information that they were hiding scuds in hospitals and in schoolyards, those children wouldnt have had to die.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
What children ?

[Fenix83]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OMFG, how can people be influenced by just some other dumbass hollywood movie?

This has to be the most pathetic thing i have ever seen on the net, even more pathetic then l337 talk

"Hey the somalis shot down american helicopters that were trying to detain a criminal, they deserve what they get. "

So?...the US is responsible for killing more then a ˝ million Iraqi childeren.

People like you need to be removed from the gene pool.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
U fool&#33;&#33;&#33; so i deserve to be removed from the gene pool, because i think that people shouldnt shoot at others while they are detaining a criminal? ok, next time a guy is raping you in the ass, it should be allowable that the cops are allowed to be detained from coming to your rescue?

It isnt a "dumbass hollywood movie" im being influenced by, its the facts of the real life event.
Who brought up iraq?? anyway, if suddam hadnt leaked information that they were hiding scuds in hospitals and in schoolyards, those children wouldnt have had to die.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
LMAO I can see the scene :

A young boy speaking with another young boy in an iraqi hospital :

Oh Geeeez i found a scud under my bed &#33;&#33;&#33;

Did you know that in scoolyards of iraq they were playing Scudball ? To mark a TD they had to touch an american barrack.  http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif  http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[christophercles]

Hey, thats what happend. He ordered the scuds to be hidden in playgrounds, hospital car parks, and civilian bomb shelters, so the U.S would get bad press when it destroyed his weapons.