Modding tools like Oxygen for OPF2

[IceFire]

I remember an old controversial debate regarding the release of the "Oxygen" tools which can be used to make OPF mods in the first place.

Those of us who were opposed to it warned of every dick tom and harry making their own mods and therfore being a high number of low quality mods everywhere where everyone is doing their own thing.

The supporters of Oxygen argued that it would be like Darwins theory of survival where all the bad mods would be swept away while the good ones will last.

Well I think we have been proved right about the dangers of releasing modding tools to players.

Now there are so many mods out there most of us cannot even keep track of it. It is so overwhelming for me that I have only yet downloaded the Operation Frenchpoint mod. I just don't know what else to try. There is TOO much out there and that is why we have this chaos.

I think for OPF2 only the developers should be able to make additions to the game in the form of patches.

All official, and all fully compatible.

[ozanzac]

How many crap mods have you seen with a full release?

What is this chaos you are referring too? Whilst yes, it can be chaotic to keep up with the user made content that is being released, would you prefer absolutly no content at all, or minimal at best? The fact that content is still being released, shows that the OFP community is still very active.

Sure, BIS did release a few addons, but behind those addons were from people who recieved dividends from those releases, and support would eventually be forced to wind down, so then resources could be focused on other, more important projects.

After that point, if there were no avenue for user content and expansion, & nothing on the horizon from BIS, I would have walked away from the game before resistance even hit the shelves.

I beleive you are highly misinformed. Mods tend to be created by groups, rather than individuals. I've yet to see a mod which has been created solely by one person, and managed to get released.

While I don't doubt you that there is crap out there, sorting the good from the bad is the users problem, and all content is downloaded at the users peril. If you can't accept that, simple: get a console, or don't download addons.

Therefore, to answer your question: I would much rather prefer OFP II to be open to the community for modding, as there's a very slim chance that such a diverse range of addons that we have now could be attained via a developer only approach...unless of course, BIS decides to employ all the gifted content makers out there to create one hell of an addon making machine...but then again, that would all be just a pipe dream.

[Colonel_Klink]

I have to agree with ozanzac on this. As one of the original people who first received Oxyge, I dont recall myself ever thinking that anything bad would come from the release to everybody who wanted it. In fact the opposite. In my opinion, believe it or not, the release of Oxygen was intrumental in keeping OFP alive .

Before Oxygen the community had the pioneer attempts of new content makers using existing OFP models and the famous setpos scripting commands. This was great and kept interest in the game. Then come the conversion of OFP models into obj files and the moving of vertexes to get the very first Huey. But the community wanted more.

Pre Oxygen release saw people designing new content in what ever 3D program they had in anticipation for the official tools.

Since then I have seen many people with absolutely no modelling or texturing experience take Oxygen and over time create some stunning content. While some content has been a bit dubious (my first attempts included) I still applaud anybody who takes the time and effort to create these addons no matter how realistic or how well made they are.
Often these people have had to take harsh criticsm for their attempts and many have gone on to other games.

There have been many additional things done with OFP that I am sure even the game creators have been amazed by. While there have been a lot of OFP supporters come and go there still remains a fairly hardcore base that will keep adding to the game for years to come.

By not releasing modding tools with OFP2 would be a backward step and I am sure the developers know this. Three years on and OFP1 is still strong, 3 years from the release of OFP2 I believe the community will still be strong; only if the community has the ability to add to it.

[Heatseeker]

Well Icefire, i dont understand your concerns seeing has you gave up on gaming and OPF http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rock.gif .
I dont think theres too much out there, we are actualy missing some basic new units and especialy missions and campaigns that take advantage of the nice addons.
Keeping track of the addons is a small price to pay, its actualy great to know that addon makers keep updating their units.
I hope it wont take long for modding tools to arrive after OPF2 http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif .

[uiox]

3DS max 6 = 1089 € per licence
Oxygen = 0 € per licence http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

OFrP exemple
Mirage 2000 with O2
Jaguar with 3ds
Puma with O2
Fennec with 3ds

I doesn't see big difference, so I can say O2 is a good program.

More visitor now.

I only hope for OFP2 new tools (or solve some actual problems) cause it will be lucky to have this.
All work of addons maker is free, I know, but it's not a reason for order BIS a release of tools.

[Nephilim]

well i think theyll stick to oxygen
as they have created vbs1 models with oxygen

besides oxygen is in my opinion the best "pure" modeling program around

even maya sucks when it comes to modeling
i can model in oxygen 3times faster then in maya
anyone who has maya knows why ;)

any most people simply dont know all functions of oxygen

i´d only wish it had such an easy animation tool like maya has, cuz aniamting with maya is easy as pie....

hope BIA will release an updated oxygen or so...

btw is there an .rtm plugin for maya 5.0?
anyone know?

[hardrock]

Oxygen is great, but one thing I'm really missing is an extrude-function. it's very annoying when you create points, copy them a few times and have to do all the faces in between by hand.

[Munk]

How many crap mods have you seen with a full release?
*cough*TcM*cough* http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[Nephilim]

@<hidden> hardrock
have u tried the split function?
well i dont know if it works on single points but hell....

maybe there wil be a oxy 2 or sth when ofp 2 is relesed

[Silent N Deadly]

What chaos are you refering to? There is no chaos. Oxygen was the best thing that happened to OPF. Most of the addons are good. Some are just amazing. What confusion? Go to ofp.info and pick the addons. You can tell which are good. If you have 56k then there is confusion because you don&#39;t know what to download. On cable just try everything. What you don&#39;t like delete. What you like keep. Simple as that.

[m21man]

Quote[/b] ]Well I think we have been proved right about the dangers of releasing modding tools to players.
What are you talking about? How is having a large basket of quality addons a problem http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rock.gif ?


Quote[/b] ]There is TOO much out there and that is why we have this chaos.
"Too much"? So because you&#39;re easily confused, all the rest of us should be stuck with less for the same price?

Edit - And if BIS released frequent patches with new units, then they&#39;d inevitably start charging for their work. Something of the FDF Mod&#39;s quality and size could be quite reasonably sold at a price of &#036;30.

Edit2 - I have ~6GB of good user-made mods and addons. At &#036;30 per GB (Seems like a good price for that much data) I have &#036;180 of addons and mods. Because these were free addons, I paid a total of &#036;90 for OFP (OFP: Gold Edition + Resistance). If BIS had made all of the addons that are currently keeping me hooked to OFP, I&#39;d have spent &#036;270 on OFP. I like saving money, but if you want to pay for officially-approved patches then switch to VBS.

[oyman]

without oxygen no addons. without addons no operation flashpoint

I think releasing o2 was a good idea, we wouldnt still be here playing this game godly porportions http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

[krise madsen]

Speaking from personal experience, I have seen what lack of mod support can do to a game.

I recently did some advisory work for a Joint Operations (JO) mod. That mod died when NovaLogic refused to support it, and JO is well on the way do dying with it. The mod team has moved on to HL2 now.

When OFP2 eventually appears, there will be a large and thriving community ready to play, make mods, and play some more, while JO will be little more than a distant memory.

I am totally convinced BIS will not make the mistake of shutting out the modders, and I sincerely hope they will (if possible) offer even greater access.

[void_false]

Yeah&#33; Release modding tools with the game&#33;
Then we get in one moment 1 million M16, 1 million AK74 and 1 billion M4 (dunno why everybody loves it).

[krise madsen]

Yeah&#33; Release modding tools with the game&#33;
Then we get in one moment 1 million M16, 1 million AK74 and 1 billion M4 (dunno why everybody loves it).
The choise is not between pure vanilla OFP2 and a bewildering array of mods. If you like the original, just ignore the mods. But ignoring the modders will be a fatal mistake (that I&#39;m sure BIS won&#39;t make).

[Nephilim]

RAGAHAAHA
look wot ive stumbeld over
i c this first time so dont shout at me...

http://rmailbox.freehosting.cz/oxygen/oxygen.htm

WHY DIDNT BIS IMPLEMENT THOSE FUNCTION IN PUBLIC OXY???

KEYFRAME ANIMATION&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
MEASURE SETTINGS&#33;&#33;&#33;
EXTRUDE&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
INTERNAL VIEWER(???)&#33;&#33;&#33;

RAGGGGHHH&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

BIS PLZZ&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; GIVES AN UPDATE ON OXY&#33;&#33;&#33;

[kavoven]

That&#39;s why it&#39;s called Oxygen LIGHT :P
(And why it doesn&#39;t cost anything)

[drow]

without oxygen no addons. without addons no operation flashpoint

I think releasing o2 was a good idea, we wouldnt still be here playing this game in godly porportions http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif
i aggree 100%

[cervomix]

Maybe IceFire was just joking and trolling... How many addonmakers started with simple and basic models of an under average quality and were working out of a mod team...?Now they are creating truly amazing things because they trained and learned thanks to O2 public release...

However I think an addon can really "live" only if it is included in a mod, like FDF did for MTLB, SZU23-2, for example.

[Llauma]

Maybe IceFire was just joking and trolling... How many addonmakers started with simple and basic models of an under average quality and were working out of a mod team...?Now they are creating truly amazing things because they trained and learned thanks to O2 public release...

However I think an addon can really "live" only if it is included in a mod, like FDF did for MTLB, SZU23-2, for example.
I think he is serious.. If I remember correctly IceFire had not tried a single addon until six months ago.

Without the modding tools this community would not have survived this long. Sure, you can argue whether single addons adds anything to the game but they do keep the interest up on the forums and therefor the community will live etc. Addons and mods prolongs the life span of a game by the double, if not more.

I hope that the time creating addons for OFP has showed alot of people how to create models, textures, scripts and configs for games so when OFP2 comes many will hopefully join together and create some great mods.

If a server requires hundreds of crappy addons no one will join it. I am sure most servers will require addons a few months after the release of OFP2 but they will be required because they add something to the game worth the time it will take to download and install the addon. I am also sure that BIS will improve how addons are being downloaded and installed so it will be alot more automated than now.

[hardrock]

I am sure most servers will require addons a few months after the release of OFP2
Who will have time to make addons the first months after OFP2 is released? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
I think we&#39;ll all be pretty busy playing the original

[KEVBAZ]

the only tool i dont agree with is odolexplorer 2.0, make people steal more, not so long ago we had a "mod team" claim our harrier as their, all they had done was delte the drop tanks and add a antenna.

[Nephilim]

i agree with kevbaz to a certain extend about hte stealing
there fore ive written a nice locking .bin
which even cant be opened by pboX or simialar

[BraTTy]

I agree with Col Klink and Ozanac...hard to say that without O2 if I would not be around.I would rather make something than play the game actually,altho I haven&#39;t produced much.
I was upset at the original limited beta release as I had no prior modelling experience.

The amount of mods,revisions and such can be confusing but is more of a joy to me.Bis has worked on the problem and may have a plan,but even if they haven&#39;t had the time,I am sure we (the community) can come up with something.

[BraTTy]

LOL I want to add that without O2&#39;s release I surely wouldn&#39;t be here.You may have never even heard from me.
Just that when O2 was released I joined the forums with a working account.The account before that I just visited these forums on ocassion and could post in General or something but I hardly never posted and the account never got activated.I used Jolt forums since before OFP&#39;s release and I never use them now
So with O2&#39;s release I joined these forums and ran my chops alot,without O2...I hardly ever came here

[Metal Heart]

Large number of mods wouldn&#39;t be a problem if there was an integrated downloader, like in Wolfenstein Enemy Territory. And like in ET, the server should not upload addons to clients, only the location where to get them, that way the server doesn&#39;t need huge bandwidth to keep things smooth if players without addons join a game in progress.

Downloading & installation should be automatic (like press ok to dl nnnn kB of addons + list of addons needed) and there should be a common naming system for addons, version data and check sums to eliminate conflicts between differents addons and versions and stuff like that. And of course, you wouldn&#39;t have to restart game after getting new addons . I&#39;d like all this you know http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[Odin [AEF-Kampa]]

Thats why OFP-Watch is there ;)

btw. I would give my live ... hmm, no, i wont ... but i would sell my wife and daughter to get O2 Full :P

[VXR]

The main reason why O˛ full wasnt released, was because it had to be transalated. That takes alot of time they don&#39;t have. OFP2 is already gone be released later so they do not have much time. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
I believe this was the main reason for not releasing it, read it somewhere a time ago.

[hardrock]

The main reason why O˛ full wasnt released, was because it had to be transalated. That takes alot of time they don&#39;t have. OFP2 is already gone be released later so they do not have much time. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
I believe this was the main reason for not releasing it, read it somewhere a time ago.
I don&#39;t think so. If you look at the stringtables of O2, it&#39;s all there, in English. I once started translating O2 from English to German, but that would have made many problems because of language differences between the only and English tutorials and the users who would have used the translated version. And when I was doing this, I stumbled across a few very interesting entries, so I think it&#39;s all in there but a few things are just deactivated.

[VXR]

The main reason why O˛ full wasnt released, was because it had to be transalated. That takes alot of time they don&#39;t have. OFP2 is already gone be released later so they do not have much time.  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
I believe this was the main reason for not releasing it, read it somewhere a time ago.
I don&#39;t think so. If you look at the stringtables of O2, it&#39;s all there, in English. I once started translating O2 from English to German, but that would have made many problems because of language differences between the only and English tutorials and the users who would have used the translated version. And when I was doing this, I stumbled across a few very interesting entries, so I think it&#39;s all in there but a few things are just deactivated.
Well I don&#39;t think its deactivated. If it was, we already would have O˛ Full released by someone from the community.

[hardrock]

Well I don&#39;t think its deactivated. If it was, we already would have O˛ Full released by someone from the community.
Well maybe it isn&#39;t included in the code then, but at least translating wouldn&#39;t be the problem. Or maybe just no-one tried? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif Would be illegal in any case . . .

[Nephilim]

id had no probs translation czech stuff
since polsih is quite similar http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

but once u got into it u do stuf automatically

besides
oxygen full has only few options more that oxy light has not

like
extrude, keyframe animation, internalviewer (??) or deforming

shoudlnt be too much to figure that out http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

[Agua]

Wow ... well, I guess that goes to show there&#39;s someone who will complain about anything.

The longevity of this game is 100% the result of the creation of interesting addons. I definitely wouldn&#39;t still be playing it if it weren&#39;t for the huge # of available addons.