RDRAM or SDRAM?....wich one is...

[jedisalf]

Im going to buy a new system in order to play OPF ( my PIII 450, is too slow) and Im wonering about the memory.
I really dont know much about hardware so my question is wich memory is better RDRAM or SDRAM?
I know that RDRAM is newest and fastest that the SDRAM, but if you have two PIV systems one with 1GHz SDRAM and the other with 512 RDAM..wich one is really the fastest?
cause if I get the same or better performance with SDRAM (at that amount of RAM) I prefer to buy the SDRAM instead of the RDARM cuase is a lot more cheap...

[tlx]

RDRAM (800 MHz) is faster than SDRAM (133 MHz) that's true. Intel will switch to DDR next year, but for now chipsets like i845 are a bottleneck to the Pentium 4. Also Rambus' (inventor of RDRAM) future is unclear. If you want the best performance *now* you have to get a i850 system. You should also be aware that Intel changed sockets from 423 to 478 pins. The next generation CPU's above 2.0 GHz will be in 478 Layout so this has to be considered if you want to remain _upgradable_.

You might also think about buying an Athlon XP system where i'd recommend a VIA KT266A chipset. They utilize DDR-Ram (266 MHz) and can compete with Pentium 4 or even top it.

[RN Malboeuf]

SDR:
PC100 = 100 mhz P2-3/ Athlon
PC133 = 133 mhz P3 / Atholon

DDR: runs on Many Athlons and P3s
PC1600 = 200 mhz
PC2100 = 266 mhz
PC2400 = 300 mhz

RDR: runs on P4
PC800 = 800 mhz

there are three ways to go, all of them are Athlon (I'm using ASUS MB)

Cheap: you'll find these dirt cheap and were the Top Boards a year ago, they are still extreamly fast and may cost 1/2 to 2/3rds the price of the A7V266 series
Asus A7V133 series
1-1.4 ghz
256 megs PC133 (133 mhz)

Mid Ranged: you'll find these are about $100-$250 (US) and are the Top Boards, they are extreamly fast and you wont notice much difference over the A7V133 series
Asus A7V266 series
1-1.4 ghz
256 PC2100 (266 mhz)

Pricey: you'll find these are about $250-$450 (US) and are the Top Boards, they are extreamly fast and you will notice much difference over the A7V133 series since they go up to 1.9 ghz
Asus A7N266 series
1-1.9 ghz
256 megs PC2100 (266 mhz)


If I were you just take the A7V133 series

Wow - a real ASUS guy, eh Mal?

Let me just throw this in: You can also get the "cheaper" motherboards, like ECS, MSI, Shuttle, etc. The thing to look for is the chipset. If you get, say the VIA KT266A chipset - which is the fastest right now, you could spend maybe $70-80 for the MB instead of $150-$200 AND still be able to go to the faster AMD chips.

I suggest that you get a lower priced motherboard that can support DDR ram. DON'T det the 133 series motherboards, go for a 266.

And don't get caught up in the pricey motherboards. The lower-priced ones (sub $100) are just as good.

And Mal, just to let you know, the AMD XP 1900 doesn't run at 1.9, it runs at 1.6 Ghz

obi

[tlx]

Malboeuf, KT133 and KT266(A) Boards can be clocked to higher speeds and support the Athlon XP too. The NVidia chipset has an integrated GeForce2 controller which _is outperformed_ by most *up-todate* graphiccards and makes the board quite expensive. The nForce chipset may be a bit ahead sometimes, but mainly of it's memory interface which can take advantage of parallel channels when using two SDRAMs.

You did not even reply to the question about P4 systems but stated incomplete JEDEC memory specifications which will be of no use to _a person with a non-technical background_ as Jedisalf states.

[MrLaggy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from RN Malboeuf on 6:46 pm on Dec. 3, 2001
SDR:
PC100 = 100 mhz P2-3/ Athlon
PC133 = 133 mhz P3 / Atholon

DDR: runs on Many Athlons and  P3s
PC1600 = 200 mhz
PC2100 = 266 mhz
PC2400 = 300 mhz

RDR: runs on P4
PC800 = 800 mhz
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Let's put that in more useful terms:

SDR:
PC100 = 800MB/second
PC133 = 1064MB/second

DDR: runs on Many Athlons and P3s
PC1600 = 1600MB/second
PC2100 = 2100MB/second
PC2400 = 2400MB/second

RDR: runs on P4
PC600 = 1200MB/second
PC700 = 1400MB/second
PC800 = 1600MB/second

As you can see, having RDRAM run at 800MHz doesn't help beat SDRAM when it's only a quarter of the width. You need a dual-channel RDRAM system to beat the fastest DDR-SDRAM, and even then you have a higher latency which is more important for most applications than bandwidth.

[RN Malboeuf]

I have yet to build any of the XPs, we tend to wait for a while to see how they do

it was my Understanding that the P4 1.9 is equal to a Athlon 1.6 ghz

As far as i know AMD has said the'll stay with the current Athlon CPU speed posting/benchmarking (this means staying witht he 266 FSB as well)

I was on the AMD and ASUS site just now and have never seen this

can you show me where you saw this?


there are other board yes, but why pass up 5-6 PCI Slots http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

if you want realy cheap get the Asus A7V-E133, compared to the A7V133 it has 1 less Gig of Ram (2 total) and the older Chip set which can be patched with the ViA 4in1s, I sell them for $125 CND ($90 US) it's just as cheap and just as good as the A7V133 wich sells $180 CND ($140 US)

[Hindhunter]

Why waste your money? Heck, you can get a lot of performance for your dough these days even if the price on memory has gone up. I bought a AMD 1,2 Ghz T-Bird DDR with 512Mb RAM DDR and a GeForce 2 GTS/PRO with 64Mb DDR for a reasonable price and I can run any game available at max resoultion and detail without any problems at all. Operation Flashpoint runs very smoothly at 1280x1024x32bit with all sliders all the way up through T&L. Thus, you don´t need to buy the latest stuff or stick with Intel to get a powerful machine.

The AMD 1200Mhz Thunderbird DDR is redicilously cheap now and so is the DDR memory although it recently went up a few bucks. Never buy the newest stuff is my philosophy. : )

[tlx]

The question was about P4 systems *either* equipped with _SDRAM_ or _RDRAM_. Your list lacks module timings.

(Edited by tlx at 7:30 pm on Dec. 3, 2001)

[tlx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Never buy the newest stuff is my philosophy. : )
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Fry: "I must've really been acting like a jerk." Bender: "Yeah, but everybody's a jerk. You, me, this jerk. That's my philosophy."

[Hindhunter]

The question was about buying a new computer and I contributed with what I thought was a sensible, ehm, contribution? =)

[Maldita Vecindad]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Hindhunter on 7:27 pm on Dec. 3, 2001

The AMD 1200Mhz Thunderbird DDR is redicilously cheap now and so is the DDR memory although it recently went up a few bucks. Never buy the newest stuff is my philosophy. : )
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Totally agree... AMD all the way...
way faster and way cheaper (at least 50bucks less).
Just remember to buy a good fan cause these procesors run really hot.....


(Edited by keKoJoNes at 8:04 pm on Dec. 3, 2001)

Just to add another POV here. ASUS' boards are overpriced and under performed. I've had an ECS ($50 board) running much faster/stable than any ASUS machine I've setup.

And yes, the P4/1.9 performs like the XP 1900, hence the marketing ploy. But the freq. of the processor is still 1.60Ghz.

[tlx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Hindhunter on 7:48 pm on Dec. 3, 2001
The question was about buying a new computer and I contributed with what I thought was a sensible, ehm, contribution? =)
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I was posting this as a reply to Mal's post, you were faster typing so your post slipped in http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[RN Malboeuf]

>>>>The question was about P4 systems *either* equipped with _SDRAM_ or _RDRAM_.

Is it now? he's buying a System and who here will actually say that he Will with out a Doubt actually Buy a P4

>>>>>>Your list lacks module timings.

I doubt the guy will understand it if he does not know what is faster in the 1st place, think about it, never cunfuse your costumers, even the ones the are not your costumers

I covered
>>>>Im going to buy a new system in order to play OPF ( my PIII 450, is too slow) and Im wonering about the memory.
I really dont know much about hardware so my question is wich memory is better RDRAM or SDRAM?

I see no need to even bother with P4s till they drop in price, no need to pay for a brand name like that, even more so when they are just slower


>>>>ASUS' boards are overpriced and under performed

yes and no, it depends on what you want, these MB are 100% upgradeable (the ones Listed), 5-6 PCI Slots ect. some of the cheaper boards are not worth it in the long run when you can't fit in a xtra PCI Card or you have up to 768 megs of Ram, this makes these boards cheaper in the long run


>>>>>>>And yes, the P4/1.9 performs like the XP 1900, hence the marketing ploy.  But the freq. of the processor is still 1.60Ghz.

I like to see were you saw the 1900XP runs at 1.6 ghz

>>>>>>>I've had an ECS ($50 board) running much faster/stable than any ASUS machine I've setup

And I've set up countless Asus/Pentium based Systems, there is just no way a you can get must faster then a 266 FSB board regardless of Brand name
I think you need to learn how to configer BIOS on the Asus's  wee bit better


(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 2:38 pm on Dec. 3, 2001)

[jedisalf]

--------------------
Totally agree... AMD all the way...
way faster and way cheaper (at least 50bucks less).
Just remember to buy a good fan cause these procesors run really hot.....
--------------------
when Im not playing I work a lot with aplications such as AutoCad or 3dStudio, I mean, my computer (PIII) sometimes stays on for 24 hours......if the AMD systems gets hot, even with a good fan, could stay on for such a long time?....what fan is good then?

Dude, you gotta be kidding me.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from RN Malboeuf on 8:31 pm on Dec. 3, 2001
I like to see were you saw the 1900XP runs at 1.6 ghz
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
http://www.amd.com/us-en....l#10228 (http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_756_3734^3876,00.html#10228)

Here's the info in case you don't want to look:

AMD Athlon XP processor 1900+ operates at a frequency of 1.60GHz.
AMD Athlon XP processor 1800+ operates at a frequency of 1.533GHz.
AMD Athlon XP processor 1700+ operates at a frequency of 1.47GHz.
AMD Athlon XP processor 1600+ operates at a frequency of 1.40GHz.
AMD Athlon XP processor 1500+ operates at a frequency of 1.33GHz.

As for the other things - sure it's subjective whether or not something runs faster or not (mb-wise), but you had said:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Pricey: you'll find these are about $250-$450 (US) and are the Top Boards, they are extreamly fast and you will notice much difference over the A7V133 series since they go up to 1.9 ghz
Asus A7N266 series
1-1.9 ghz
256 megs PC2100 (266 mhz)
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

So, explain to ME what the difference is between the A7N266 series and the A7V266?  You said the pricey ones go extremely fast.

All the latest "cheap" MB I've seen have 5-6 PCI slots and can support up to 3GB DDR RAM. But anyway, who would use all of the PCI slots anyway?

obi

(Edited by OBiJuan at 10:04 pm on Dec. 3, 2001)

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from jedisalf on 9:44 pm on Dec. 3, 2001

when Im not playing I work a lot with aplications such as AutoCad or 3dStudio, I mean, my computer (PIII) sometimes stays on for 24 hours......if the AMD systems gets hot, even with a good fan, could stay on for such a long time?....what fan is good then?
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

The answer is it depends.  What else will you have in the case?  What is the ambient temperature?

As a general guide, you should have at least one case intake fan and one out case fan.  In a regular setup, the retail hsf is good enough.  The best thing you can do for you PC, though is to lower the ambient temperature of the room.

Here's something to keep in mind:

1.  The room temp and the mb (system) temp should not be more than 7C difference.
2.  The mb temp and the cpu temp should not be more than 25C difference.

If 1 is false then you need better case cooling.  If 2 is false then you need a better HSF.

obi

[Crille]

Hi...
I would like to add one little thing about RDR.
RDR are not always faster then SDR. SDR are quite alot faster If you are working with many small files at the same time but if you are using one large file then RDR are many times faster ..
In case anyone did'nt know.

Lesson 1 in "Things that arent worth knowing" :-)

[RN Malboeuf]

I asked for it, I was looking all over the AMD site and never saw that thanks

As for the A7V266 I am told it's max is 1.4 ghz
are you telling me I can Slap in a XP? up to what?

Like i said this is the 1st I've heard of it, I know just about every thing on the A7V series and would just love it if I could slap a XP in to them, I have allot of them here to get rid of

Even our Dealer does not think an XP can run in the A7V266, and their pretty big with Three Dealler locations


The A7V266-E supports the XP, but not the A7V266 as far as I know

(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 5:10 pm on Dec. 3, 2001)

[WisdoM]

Price never means you get good performance. I mean #### I went with an EPoX 8KHA+ KT266A for $99.00, one of the best, stable Mobo's there is, especially for Overclocking http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I suggest you just try it with the A7V266. AMD lists the A7V266 as recommended for XP 1500-1800, but not for the 1900. DOn't see why it shouldn't, probably with a BIOS update, it'll work...but try it anyway.

As long as you have BIOS 1002c, it should be OK for up to XP1800.

[RN Malboeuf]

No they list the A7V266-E
<a href="http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_182_869_1039^4046&#0124;109_3,00.html

I" target="_blank">http://www.amd.com/us-en....tml

I</a> don't think the the A7V266 is compatiable

[Lucidity]

Hey, any of you Asus experts out there know if I can put an Athlon XP 1900 on my A7M266? Or if I can put pc2400 ram on it? I'd really appreciate it if anyone could help me.

[tlx]

According to Asus Germany, you can use an Athlon XP:

http://www.asuscom.de/de/support/techmain/FAQ/mobo_cpu/faq085_CPU_Upgrade_II.htm

[MrLaggy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from OBiJuan on 10:00 pm on Dec. 3, 2001
All the latest "cheap" MB I've seen have 5-6 PCI slots and can support up to 3GB DDR RAM.  But anyway, who would use all of the PCI slots anyway?
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Analogue video capture card, Firewire card with hardware DV codec, SCSI card, sound card, network card, IDE RAID card... oops, now we're out of slots!

[RN Malboeuf]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Lucidity on 12:09 am on Dec. 4, 2001
Hey, any of you Asus experts out there know if I can put an Athlon XP 1900 on my A7M266? Or if I can put pc2400 ram on it? I'd really appreciate it if anyone could help me.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I have PC 2400 in my A7V266, thier pretty much the same boards, except you have allot more intergraded stuff like Vid/Nic/Audeo (may not have all three but will have the NIC)

only run the 2400 (300 mhz) Ram if you over clock your MB to 300+Mhz (mine at 314 mhz)

this way the memory is a little more stable, I Had some good PC2100 but the CPU kept freezing past 10% O/C

[RN Malboeuf]

Look what I Found, the English Version of that German page, just by mistake

I went over to
<a href="http://www.k7v.com

and" target="_blank">http://www.k7v.com

and</a> found

http://www.a7vtroubleshooting.com
wich inturn had this
<a href="http://www.a7vtroubleshooting.com/info/cpu/index.htm

" target="_blank">http://www.a7vtroubleshooting.com/info/cpu/index.htm

</a>
So it does look like our A7V/M266's can run XPs http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

SWEET

AMD does say the A7V266 can run XP 1500-1800. Try this link:

http://www.amd.com/us-en....00.html (http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_182_869_1039%5e4046%7c105_1,00.html)

I already said that it doesn't work with 1900, but you still clicked on the 1900 link, didn't you?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from MrLaggy on 4:33 pm on Dec. 4, 2001
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from OBiJuan on 10:00 pm on Dec. 3, 2001
All the latest "cheap" MB I've seen have 5-6 PCI slots and can support up to 3GB DDR RAM.  But anyway, who would use all of the PCI slots anyway?
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Analogue video capture card, Firewire card with hardware DV codec, SCSI card, sound card, network card, IDE RAID card... oops, now we're out of slots!

[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

How about a realistic example? Who would really have SCSI and IDE RAID cards in the same box?

I guess my argument is that for the average user, 5 PCI slots is plenty. If you absolutely need more, then get a specialized mb. I've personally never used more than 4 PCI slots - network, scsi, sound, video. Oh well.

In any case, most mbs nowadays are 5-6 PCI slots.

[MrLaggy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from OBiJuan on 9:09 pm on Dec. 4, 2001
How about a realistic example?  Who would really have SCSI and IDE RAID cards in the same box?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

If you edit a lot of video it's not unusual to have SCSI for CD drives, IDE RAID for video drives with the onboard IDE controller for the system drive(s) and maybe an LS-120 or similar big floppy. I was going to drop an IDE RAID card into my PC but ran out of slots with the Firewire, SCSI, sound and analog video capture cards already in there... fortunately modern IDE drives are just about fast enough until HD video becomes more common.

[Lucidity]

Thanks Mal, where did you get your pc2400?

[5thElement]

I can recommend my new M/B - ECS P4S5A (SiS chipset). It takes both SD and DDR RAM (although not at the same time). Installed it with a P4 1.7 - up and running in minutes with self config and latest drivers.  I've run some quick benchmarks and with DDR it isn't far behind RAMBUS timings. Runs the "beautiful game" (OFP) beautifully. The board is 428 pin so takes faster P4s when required.

[RN Malboeuf]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Lucidity on 10:45 pm on Dec. 4, 2001
Thanks Mal, where did you get your pc2400?
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
From me since i sell them http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
it took allot of begging from my dealers to find them actually, they odered it special for me

not sure who would stock them on hand since not many MBs really run at 300 mhz with out over clocking them

the same goes for my costumers, I will sell them if I can, but if I know that thay have O/C thier MB (when I sold them the MB) they Void the Warrenty heh

never tell your dealer this
I do still cover warenty for freinds that do this, but I've only seen 1 blown MB in the last year that i sold

now depending on where you live just a do a search for "PC2400" and see if you can find a dealer that will mail it to ya

try
http://www.pricewatch.com/
as well

(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 3:10 pm on Dec. 5, 2001)