Joining during a battle

[Gunny]

I want to have an ability to join the game during a battle like any good MP games (Quake, HL...). Its a core of the MP. Players want to have a choice - connect and disconnect to servers at any time. The game will become more dynamic and more players will spend free time on servers cause they will be able to connect to any free server at any time and start the game immediately.

Give us Freedom!

[nQr]

Gotta agree withthis one, we need more on line players, and this is the way to go!

[quiet]

Agreed!

It can be made server or vote optional but as you it's the way to go.

[morbid]

BIS have already stated that it is unlikely that they will do this http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[Gunny]

Thats why ive started this thread - where are no game features which are more necessary than the joining during a battle.

[Showstopper]

Right, that's a MUST HAVE for any MP game. Sort of a standart - you have mp, you must have this feature. First on the list.

[Col Rambo SBS]

Agreed on this point.
What happenes if you put up a server with infinate respawn and a time limit of 60 min, then people are stuck for ages waiting for it to restart.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE , BIS, you must reconsidder this point. it what made the Deltaforce games such a success, and dommed others.

[B Dumphuck]

Yes, we definitely need a way to build MP Server communities. I've had a server up nearly a month and barely anyone plays on it except our regular folks. People want to join a game in progress, not wait 45 minutes.

How about a server setting to allow it if the server admin desires? Or, at minimum, allow the server op to set up "respawn ability" in any map, and let the map run all day if he wants. People can pop in and out at any time.

Without MP enhancements, the game will die. Nothing worse than waiting 20 minutes for a game, and bothering people playing for information on how long the wait is, and then having the server admin take the server down on you.

[quiet]

That's very true, especially if you something goes wrong a person needs to be able to reconnect.

Also, a suicide feature (even if admin only level) would be nice if there are problems of getting stuck.

But mid-game join is a necessity if you want this game to become more popular or keep an audience.

[quiet]

One thing you could do is have it so if someone wants to join mid-game it turns into a vote.

Then if teams are unbalanced that person joins that particular team - then another dialogue comes up where the leader of that team decides that person's role.

Or to keep the game fair, if it's a non-coop (though I think coop should respawn) you have it so that person who joins mid game is not close to his other comrades - at least that way it appears the person is being deployed from a far off location.

Good or bad idea?

(Edited by quiet at 11:05 pm on Oct. 14, 2001)

[v4nd4l]

i love counter strike, i realize that this game is NOT counterstrike at all, but i love the tactical idea of this game, i agree on the "mid game join" idea.. i hate having to look up game IPs, then see if i can join, then see if anyone is even IN THERE! its such a hassle.. ( i wish my gamespy would work)

[quiet]

Yes, this sure would be nice. Or if it can't be done, at least report to server front end programs the time left in a game so people aren't stuck in the in-game lobby.

But in-game joining is the only true answer. Just consider it reinforcements, which is pretty realistic for wartime simulations.

[quiet]

I apologize for pushing this really hard, but I believe it's a necessity for the game to survive.

I've been asking a lot online MP friends if joining mid-game can make or break a game and they basically said if it wasn't for joining mid-game they wouldn't be playing most of their games.

I think the dev team here should seriously look into option (joining mid-game) to sustain and encourage (sell more of the game to) a larger base of MP OFP players.

Thank you.

[Loafer]

By enabling a feature such as this it would allow map-makers to have large scale wars using the whole of the island and respawning/resupplying. The qualities of a sector control type game with each side battling for ownership of towns and key facilities/high ground etc would be awesome. These maps could be played over several hours. Currently you have to play limited time to allow others to join the fun.

I know the netcode isn't up to large numbers of players yet, but the implications of introducing this feature would really give it an edge in the marketplace.

Jus' dreamin... http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[quiet]

I say add the feature and just implement a warning about lag... work on the netcode from that point on.

[quiet]

Suma,

Do you see this thread?

I believe this simple feature - and expanding more players would make this game what 'world war 2 online' only could hope.

Thanks!

[Suma]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Do you see this thread?

I believe this simple feature - and expanding more players would make this game what 'world war 2 online' only could hope[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yes, I do see it.

As I already explained several times before, implementing "Join in progress" would be very difficult for us, as the code is not prepared for it. Basically the difficulty lies in this:

When player joins game that is already running, complete state of the world (all vehicles, all dammages to static objects, all soldier, flying bullets, playing sounds) has to be transmitted to him. Something similiar is done when game is starting, but on the game start you know many things cannot be happenig yet (nothing is destroyed, no sounds are playing). The ammount of information that needs to be sent for a new player would be terrible and there would be a lot of new message types we would have to introduce.

From the resons above, I can say that almost certainly there will be no patch for OFP that will enable "Join in progress".

[quiet]

Thank you for the honest response.

If that's the case, I suggest one piece of information be transmitted in two different places:

Time remaining - for mission - in the in-game lobby.

Time remaining transmitted to the master server to show as a ruleset on front ends such as ASE, Gamespy, etc. how long the game has left.

Is that possible?

Thank you. =)

[Col Rambo SBS]

If thats the case, my Flashpoint will be likely to be binned.
Join in progress is, as you said, likely to be very hard to do, this does not mean impossible.
For this reason, I play other games online lots more than I play Flashpoint, even though Flashpoint is superior in every other way. i will be Sticking to the DeltaForce series for now, as I can jump in for a quick battle when I have 10 min to spare, and this time is not lost sitting waiting in hope that the server will be reset for me to get in.
You ask people for feed back, well this is it. For serious Online players, this is a "Must Have " feature.
Why create a Super human being, and forget to give him 2 eyes !
You need to look at this seriously, otherwise it will have a knock on effect of sales of Flashpoint, as many people are purchasing it for the Potential multiplayer fun, which is completely lost by having to wait for a server to restart.
We are a patient bunch when we know something is on the way, but we need assurances from you that you will try.
The Extra missions, Vehicles and Weapons can all be added later, the MP aspect needs addressed first and foremost.
Dont get me wrong, I do like the game, but i prefer playing online than offline.
Thank you for listening if you have done.

[quiet]

Rambo is correct.

Despite how great the game is - and it's an amazing game, people will most likely end up playing other games due to the fact they can't simply join mid-mission.

Most of us have time constraints, and being able to join up in a game while it's playing adds to the fact it's for entertainment, not an essential part of our lives.

Too bad, this game has great potential. =(

(Edited by quiet at 4:28 pm on Oct. 15, 2001)

[Bronco]

"From the resons above, I can say that almost certainly there will be no patch for OFP that will enable "Join in progress".

Well that blows. Hope you guys are working on a new game which will include joining the game in progress. Because the life span of this game has been cut in half by leaving that feature out.

[Gunny]

Absolutly true,Rambo. For now people play the game offline but the real potential of the OF is great MP battles and without such patch it will be just another game not serious tactical shooter...

[Suma]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Time remaining - for mission - in the in-game lobby.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This is possible only in some mission types (CTF, Deadmatch) and even in those only when Server decides game should be terminated after certain period of time (other possibilities include play to certain score). Even in this game everything is handled internaly by mission scripts and game engine has no direct access to the infromation.

For many mission types (Coop) mission termination is determined by achieving some objectives - in this case it is almost impossible to make even an estimation of time left.

[WheelchairWho]

yea joining in progress just wouldn't work for co-op missions, or doesn't make sense.

For deathmatch or CTF, fine. we had someone join during a game on a CTF map, not sure how he did it. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Bronco]

How about a smaller Island (death match Island) designed for join in progress games. This could be a small area so less data needs to be transmited to each player as they enter,with or without vehicles. A place where we could jump in and shoot each other. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif And for a more serious game take the time to setup the game as we do now. The join in progress maps could be included in a patch so everyone has the same map.

[Dawdler]

Good idea. Limit the play to a smaller island (like the one in the SE on Everon(or the other island, cant remember)).
Then when people want to join let them load all things thats in the preset mission, pause the game for a while (like the lag where you can run but you dont see anything else move), and let the joining player catch up with events. How long would such loading time take? I mean even a gap of 30 secs to a minute I can handle.

Just give us the darn joining ability, one way or the other. You will place this game among the Gods of MP, it might even knock down CS. Without this feature it will crash to the ground just as sure as helis do in MP.

Scrap Red Hammer, scrap all betas, scrap new vehicles, take month, just give us the joining ability.

And if you Dev guys dont do this, at least give us the SDK or this game wont live long on my harddrive.

[GiB SunSeeker]

It would be nice though.....
sorry Suma, just trying to help, but how does a game like Red Faction manage to do it.
GeoMod technology deforms the map and scenery, and still, a player can connect mid-game

[Capitaine Haddock]

Thanks for taking time to replay, Suma.

I love flaspoint down to the last tiny detail, but I missed this feature in Flashpoint from day 1. It’s something you expect as being part of the basic core in the multiplayer code.

I understand you are concerned with the connection time, but in quite old games like Quake 2 there was the option to download a whole map from the server if you didn’t have it. I presume the information about the current state of the mission in flashpoint is quite big, but it can’t be much bigger than the download required for a whole quake map (we are talking about 3D models with texture coordinates here, even actual textures sometimes, not just object positions and states...).

But it should be possible, because you can talk to the guys playing aclosed game, so it means you are sending information in and out of the game.

I understand you can’t tell how long it’s going to take to load, but can’t you just have a Loading message with a warnig saying that it could take a long time? Even if it takes 2 minutes to download the gamestate (that’s like ˝ Mb with a slow modem), it’ll be better than waiting half an hour for the end of the mission...

I understand that you just want to get this game out of the way and work on your next project, but I feel sorry for flashpoint. It’s such a good game...

I understand all this. I really do, but this is the last little help the game needs to become a true classic in the history of computer games. Not more vehicles, not more weapons not more maps. Just this.

Dan “Haddock”

[Col Rambo SBS]

Well said that man.
Nothing is impossible, just maby a bit improbable. This does not mean it cant be done, it usually means we wont do it.
If this is the road its going to take, than in my opinion, the support from BIS for developing this game has lasted a whole 2 months before failing.
Listen, Guys at BIS, we are trying to save your game ! please listen to us. Its better to try and ( Hopefully not ) fail, than not to try at all.

[v4nd4l]

i HONESTLY do not believe that ANYTHING will be able to knock down CS in a LONG A$$ TIMe! ive been playing cs since6.5 and i still cant get enough, expecially now that i found a server cluster that has a lot of cool ppeople on it and i ping good to, i will watch the regulars in the cluster, and learn off them, well, i used to do that, i dont anymore though, i have my skill level that will increase day by day as i play.. i hate bein called a cheater though, i think that if there is anything that will kill cs, its because of the newbs taht play and call everyone cheaters, i know several ppl who have quit the game cuz of that accusations.. thx for the time guys,

--long live CS.. (i love OFP as well though dont get me wrong... and, join in progress is a must for the next patch)

[subx]

The way I see it the next big thing in MP gaming will be first person, allow people to play different roles, allow them to cooporate in those different roles, let them fight against other people, provide various additional equipment such as vehicles, have large and persistant combat zones, and allow people to join the game when they want (it's not difficult, you start them in a safe base external the game and then transport them into the game in a realistic reinforcements way).

OFP is achingly close, but my high hopes for the game are fading fast. An occasional game to play with a couple of friends, but not the next best thing.

[Vincent Vega]

First let me say one thing: Operation Flashpoint is the game I always wanted to play since I started playing computergames on a C-64. Thank you for making it, BI!

Singleplayer is pretty good, but the real potential of this game is multiplayer!
Joining ability for multiplayer games in progress is a MUST HAVE for an onlinemultiplayergame! who needs new vehicle-, weaponsaddons etc. if nobody plays the game online? I think we don't need them for one or two "lousy" singleplayer missions to play around with... The ability to join a multiplayergame whenever you want is really ESSENTIAL. So you say its difficult to implement cause there is a lot of information to be send?
Why not try to handle it like this: Players connect to game in progress. The server shows the connected player short info about the mission and/or welcome message from the server and which "roles" are available to play (eg. as in RTCW). The player picks one side & role to play. During this process the information about the actual game state is being sent to the player. How long might connecting take? 30 seconds? Ok, it depends on the players (and the servers) available bandwith how long it takes to get the actual game state from the server, but who cares if it would take eg. 2 minutes? better than wating for 30 minutes or even more to get in a game!!!
Just look at the number of servers running for OFP... acutally I see 125 (v1.26) in All-Seeing Eye, only !3! of them got more then 10 players:( Thats really a shame for a game like OFP! Even for Return to Castle Wolfentstein MPDemo there are running 511 servers at the moment, and many of them are full! not to mention CounterStrike... but #### OFP has much more potential than those "primitive" games!
Just think of the most popular multiplayergame at the moment, CounterStrike: if you couldn't join a running game who would play this anymore???

CONCLUSION: please make join in progress as soon as possible available in OFP, its much more important than anything else!
Otherwise OFP is going to be forgotten soon:(

sincerely,
Vincent Vega

[OperationFPoint]

I think that this MP should be more like ROGUE SPEAR. You can join at anytime and play at anytime

[Cle Hicks]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">in quite old games like Quake 2 there was the option to download a whole map from the server if you didn’t have it. I presume the information about the current state of the mission in flashpoint is quite big, but it can’t be much bigger than the download required for a whole quake map[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>It seems to me u r forgetting a little detail: the state of an in-progress game is *not* static like a map. Look: ppl are playing when u r downloading those data, and are *changing* them.
Virtually, u could even get stuck in an infinite d/l because what u get from server is changing continuosly and u need to re-download it all the time... (not likely to happen, but u got the point huh?)
I just think average d/l time would be the same u spend now waiting for already-started games to finish. Only difference: programmers spent a lot of time implementing a feature that cannot keep what it promises: "let u play on the fly".

C'mon guys: look at those huge, beautiful, detailed maps OFP lets u play in. They're what elevates OFP over other FPS (that's the good) and at the same time they prevent u from joining a game in progress (and that's the bad). Everithing comes at a cost.
Personally, I don't think OFP is goin to "die" because of this feature lacking. Simply, OFP forces u to schedule ur games instead of just joining in in ur "spare time"...

Try to see the situation this way: OFP is more tactical than other games even in deciding when to play and whith whom...
I love this game, and if u love it too, there'll be no "10 mins wait" that stops u from playin it.

By the way, infos transmitted by servers to clients like GameSpy or All-Seeing Eye should definitely be improved - plz Suma, u sure can do this: add those info
- name of map currently playing (possibly with option to see its briefing and the map itself, even if not animated)
- timeleft (in maps with fixed duration)
- time from start (in all maps which arent time-based)
- number of objectives reached/number of total objectives (just to have an idea of what's goin' on)

I think this could be easily made available in a forthcoming patch, am I right? http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[UberPhreek]

Anyone ever heard of "Feature Creep" ? The game is massive. It is already by far the most in-depth, detailed, realistic, beautiful, shooter/simulation on the market. I  run a dedicated server, and I know for a fact, that if I had kewl d3wds coming and going at their leisure, it would be incredible destructive to my gameplay, not to mention others. If you want the "join in progress" try talking Suma and his team into giving you the source code. I'm sure you'll get just as far as you will by demanding "Join in progress" ;) Or you could just write your own game, i mean, it's not impossible... right ?

[SargentCannoot]

im not a talker so ill keep this short

i love opf ive been following it for 3.5 years now almost so that proves that i really love it

and i must agree with everybody the join in progress is needed for opf to survive

else it will die soon not for me but for all the rest:/
Proud member of the OPF Veterans
btw say hello to petr if ure reading

[quiet]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Bronco on 8:50 pm on Oct. 15, 2001
How about a smaller Island (death match Island) designed for join in progress games. This could be a small area so less data needs to be transmited to each player as they enter,with or without vehicles. A place where we could jump in and shoot each other. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif And for a more serious game take the time to setup the game as we do now. The join in progress maps could be included in a patch so everyone has the same map.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Awesome idea. I like it!

[quiet]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from GiB SunSeeker on 9:54 pm on Oct. 15, 2001
It would be nice though.....
sorry Suma, just trying to help, but how does a game like Red Faction manage to do it.
GeoMod technology deforms the map and scenery, and still, a player can connect mid-game
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Good question... Hrm.. I hope he responds to this.

[quiet]

Question -

Are you guys locked into an agreement with Microsoft to only use directplay and no other form of server/client connections?

Do the dedicated servers merely allow an in-game lobby yet still utilize directplay?

Thanks.

(Edited by quiet at 4:28 am on Oct. 16, 2001)

[Mr Pedersen]

In the future there will be more games that have just what players want, join and leave a game when ever you want to.

So what do you think will hapen with the game then?
do you think the average player will chose your game if he has a simelary game with join and leave when you want possibilety?
A difficult job to fix the code, yes maby so.
But how long will the game last without it?

[ufo_hk]

Cle Hicks / Suma and others make some really good points which I believe others just don't want to come to grips with. Otherwise this issue won't keep appearing (I not saying don't discuss it !!)

OFP is not a FPS such as HL:CS / Quake etc - it's a totally different experience and therefore suits different people in different ways.

To say that because one feature is missing the game is likely to die, over looks the fact that there are many other features / functionality provided that will ensure it's survival. The mission editor is a great example, with this you've got two great oppurtunties that go well beyond being able to simply join an existing game. You can either spend hours playing a wider variety games simply because the editor exists, or you can spend hours building missions, or do both.

Also comparing the game features with others such as Red Faction / Delta force Land Warrior is not correct, Red faction and Delta force certainly have much less status information to relay between players. Therefore we are comparing apples with oranges etc.

Although it might be a possible that a compromise could be considered, ie join a game feature is available in CTF / DM type games (with out vehicles??) - if game type could be identified.

[quiet]

Than what about Tribes 2?

It has all the above and mid-game join.

[Antichrist]

Tribes 2 got what?
Respawning vehicles that leave no trace when they're destroyed?
Or absolutely static and indestructible terrain, trees and buildings?
Or limited areas with borders?
U see my point i hope. There is no need to compare OFP to Tribes 2. They're just different.

As for "Join in Progress"
I think that BIS can easily implement this feature, but the main problem is that whole game engine relies heavily on scripts. Global scripts don't work even after u loaded a game in single player. Would I like to play MP game which won't finish for you because some script was activated even before u joined, or won't record your score for the same reason, or every time u shoot a gun the bullet will fly back and kill you? I doubt that!!!
To make "Joining in progress they need to rework only net-code but whole game engine, which will probably take them another 4 years. We'll better wait for the next game

[QIce]

is any progressive game exist without "joining during a battle"? NO! absolutely. too bad news about Operation Flashpoint in this question...

[quiet]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Antichrist on 7:36 am on Oct. 16, 2001
Tribes 2 got what?
Respawning vehicles that leave no trace when they're destroyed?
Or absolutely static and indestructible terrain, trees and buildings?
Or limited areas with borders?
U see my point i hope. There is no need to compare OFP to Tribes 2. They're just different.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I see your point.

Hrm.. I wonder if they could implement a save game feature for multiplayer.

My main concern was if my clan had battles, what if someone drops?

Let's say you were fighting it out and lost a clan-mate or two. Host could save game.. restart game back where everything left off and have people join.

Would this fix the most important problem - if people drop out yet they can't rejoin?

Suma,

Would this be possible? This is the main reason I would want mid-game joins - if clan mates came in.

Personally I would not want someone from the outside jumping into a game randomly and disrupting strategies.

But ... If you could save a multiplayer game and restart with all the same players, that might be a decent work-around.

Thanks!

(Edited by quiet at 11:15 am on Oct. 16, 2001)

[Capitaine Haddock]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">By Cle Hicks: It seems to me u r forgetting a little detail: the state of an in-progress game is *not* static like a map. Look: ppl are playing when u r downloading those data, and are *changing* them.
Virtually, u could even get stuck in an infinite d/l[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I see your point about the game state changing all the time, but the game sends ALL that information in real-time when you are actually playing...

If it works in-game it should even be faster in a download screen.

Oh. Another game that has this feature is Warbirds. There are far more players than in OFP, lots of planes, damaged units, damaged land objects... and you can join mid-game.

Dan "Haddock"

[subx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from ufo hk on 5:41 am on Oct. 16, 2001
To say that because one feature is missing the game is likely to die, over looks the fact that there are many other features / functionality provided that will ensure it's survival....
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I think what you're overlooking is what the majority of people want out of a game: easy, "out of the box" usage that they can play for an hour or two when it's convenient for them. The features you talk about are welcome, but will not appeal to the majority.

I can think of several games over the passed few years that had entertaining multiplayer games, but because their ease of use was poor they didn't take off.

[UberPhreek]

One last thing I wanted to mention. I hosted a game last night for some friends of mine. We like to play long, drawn out missions. The entire time people kept joining, leaving, joining and leaving. Most with names like }{ooter}{unter etc. I have no interest in playing with these people ! I was so glad that they couldn't join ! I know I can assign a password etc, but why should I have to ? I think that with all the quick n dirty fragathon shooters out there, Operation Flashpoint answers the call for the elite. The ones who really want to 'get into the battle' vs running around killing everything that moves yelling w00t ! ... But that's just me.

[Gunny]

2quiet: I dont think saving MP game will be good cause its only for Clanwars not for much more single fans around the world (btw u cant keep yo clan together all the time and play only this team).

[Showstopper]

Despite all the talk, I still think, that waiting for 5 minutes for gamestate to update is WAY much better than waiting for 40 minutes for server to restart. Right ?

[Striiker]

The amount of respect and admiration players have for OFP is obvious. I love the game and was truly looking forward to Multiplayer. Yes, I have great fun playing multiplayer missions, when I can actually find an open game... :-/ I use All-seeing Eye and spend far too much time popping in and out of servers to see if I can join. I'm not just out for shoot 'em ups etc.
I'm one of the average users out there who has limited time available to play. I work, have a wife and kids and real life responsibilities. I'd LOVE to be able to spend the majority of my hour or two of allocated game time crawling through the dirt with a bunch of other guys but too often, my liesure time gets spent drifting arond or waiting for a server to restart a mission.
Having the ability to join a mission in progress would allow the potential of this game to be fully experienced! Ever wonder why there aren't many servers with sector control missions running, or why servers have such low numbers?
1) Players don't want to wait around for enough people to show up to play these missions properly. So, often a server will start up when the player count hits 4. If enough patient players show up and are willing to WAIT a bit, the server admin can end the mission and perhaps switch to CTF or some other mission type.
2) Players who were playing sometimes have to go due to RL issues or they get dropped. So, the server with a team of 4 or 5 people attacing some objectives suddenly drops to 4, then 3 etc. This problem is often experienced in CTF games where you start with 8 players total but through player departures, the population drops to 4 players total.
Nobody stays when the game is in progress and no new players can join a game in progress to fill vacant spots.
Perhaps there will be an internet optimized version of OFP (remember Quakeworld?) where people can join missions in progress (start as a soldier at a base and arrive as re-enforcements). I don't have any hopes left that the current game will be modified to allow such a feature as Join in progress.. Hopefuly they can re-invest the money made off this version to build a new version with such a feature released as OFP2??
I'm probably going to spend my OFP time doing solo missions with the odd multiplayer experience (time permitting) and will shift to other products which don't force me to wait to play on an underpopulated server.. (Playing with 20+ people in a game is just too much fun compared to playing with 2 other people)

[Col Rambo SBS]

This thread is certainly bringing out the players deapest concerns, and for tha majority of posts here, it is the fact that they want, no, the NEED the Join in Progress feature.
Hope BIS are paying attention, and not abandoned the thread after the 10th post.
There is no pint in a large host, such as BarrysWorld shoving up dedicated servers when people cant join when they have time to do so.

[ltme]

all this probably makes the sdk a good idea.... then people could make a mod for everyone's taste.....

Suma - are you planning on releasing an SDK? If so, do you think "join in progress" is something that could be implemented in a mod?

[lobo69]

Your stupid OFP Developer, your game is going to die now because of your ignorance... it has no chance surviving against games like DoD and CS becasue they have such a great setup. OPF was great when i first played it... but now its just a waste of time.. i shouldn't have bough it becasue i just wasted 59.99. If you just had a better sence of what gamers need this would never have been an issue.. so i regret to inform you that your game "was" good... but thats about as far as it got.. to the "was" stage

[Bronco]

I think the game just got better with the loss of lobo69. This is a great game with or without the ability to join MP games in progress. Of course if it did have that option it would make it a lot easier to get into a game. Looks like we will have to wait for the sequel to come out unless BIS comes up with a compromise solution.

[MajHavoc]

Greetings,

Good points for having "join in progress". However, Rogue Spear/Rainbow6 etc. don't seem to have been bothered much by NOT having JIP (2000+ players on "The Zone" at any given time), but they don't have a standalone server either, so that might be the reason. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[morbid]

I think OFP is a great game, and I would still think so even if it had no multiplayer.
I don't mind having to wait to join a game, but I think that it definately does need a join in progress option because it seems that many players want to play NOW (just look at how many people play drop in games like CS, quake, tribes2 ect) , not 30 or 40 minutes after finding a server.
With join in progress the game would appeal to even more people (those who don't want to wait), and of course more people buying the game = more money for the publisher/developer.

[nocabiwik]

yep i agree lets be able to join in game

[iso4butyl]

why would anyone create an MP game without this ability? i just spent 20 mins waiting to play a game...why would this happen? because there are so few servers out there you have to wait just to get in a game. i want my money back...isn't metal gear solid 2 coming out soon?

[Antichrist]

I really feel sorry for people who gonna ditch this game only because of the "joining in progress" issue. Even without it OFP is the best MP experience i ever had.
2 Gunny č Showstopper
Íŕđîä, çŕ÷ĺě áűëî ďîäíčěŕňü ýňó ňĺěó. Âĺäü ˙ńíî ćĺ Suma íŕďčńŕë, ÷ňî íĺ áóäĺň ýňîé ôč÷č ďîęŕ
Áóäĺě ćäŕňü OFP 2

[Cle Hicks]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Capitaine Haddock on 12:11 pm on Oct. 16, 2001

I see your point about the game state changing all the time, but  the game sends ALL that information in real-time when you are actually playing...If it works in-game it should even be faster in a download screen.
Oh. Another game that has this feature is Warbirds. There are far more players than in OFP, lots of planes, damaged units, damaged land objects... and you can join mid-game.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>Look man, did u take the time to read Suma's reply? When u start a game, there's an init phase u just CAN'T implement after game has started because U can't do many of the necessary assumptions about scripts states. It's not me who's sayin that, it's Suma: do u think u know the code better than he does?
U say "if it works in-game it should even be faster in a download screen" - nope. This is ur opinion: it depends on how the engine has been projected & developed. Obviously, it can't be done with the current OFP engine (and don't ask for a complete rework of the engine: u would just get laughed in ur face...). C'mon: does anybody think BIS just wants to disappoints us not implementing an easy-to-do feature? C'mon guys, be smart! If they say it can't be done, why not trust them? Do u think they are just cruel? Or lazy? C'MON!!! It's in their interest to improve the game (and they're doing it: did u see how many patches, add-ons, tools they've released FOR FREE?): if this feature can't be added, there's no point in just crying and screaming like babies who want some more toys to play whith!
Didn't play that WB game, but I've seen it and personally I'm sure it has'n even a portion of OFP complexity (HUGE *interactive* maps, LOTS of *script-commanded* troops & vehicles, etc.): It's just a FlSim... It's a little bit different, don't u think?


(Edited by Cle Hicks at 4:11 pm on Oct. 17, 2001)

[Bronco]

Last night I tried playing on the dedicated servers using the ASE and wasted a good 30 min waiting at several different servers and finally went back to game spy to get in a game. The same story at every server a few people playing and angry people waiting to get in. Its just a matter of luck if you find a server that is just. about to start. You caint even read the chat text because GAME IN PROGRESS blocks the text. DUH  95% of the servers have one or two players in them. The dedicated servers are useless without JIP option. Looks like we are stuck with Game Spy until some other game developer comes out with a clone OFP with JIP games.

[Dawdler]

Well if we cant have "joining" what about making us a server list?


When you click on "multiplayer" OFP automaticly logs on to a preset server list IP (can change it if you want to make special IP games)

Then on each server there one could have the time, like "10 mins to start" or "10 min ingame, 20 min to restart"

The time thing is made up of something like the server sets the mission loop, then sets a pause time like 5-10mins. After that time is up, it will leave the east/west choose screen, go into soldier type selection and wait for 2 mins or so, unless every one has pressed ok.
Then it just starts the game! After the round is completed it will be repeated.

It would also be good to see "current mission:" and "next mission:"

IT WILL [TO SOME EXTENT] SOLVE THE PROBLEM!!!
And it will not mean any major rewriting in the engine, just the multiplayer part. How about that?

[sgtvor]

I'd have agree in Dawdler....

I'd HIGHLY doubt that BIS would come onto the forums, and make the statement they did if implimenting JIP was feasable.  That kind of statement is a political way of saying it's impossible.  The key is to find a reasonable fix within means.  Dawdlers suggestion is a valid one.

SgtVor

(Edited by sgtvor at 8:26 pm on Oct. 17, 2001)

[Capitaine Haddock]

Cle Hicks...

I know nothing about the code, I know nothing about script states, I know nothing about init phases, I know nothing about the game engine, I know nothing about programming, I know nothing about what BIS is doing now, I know nothing about what they are going to do next, and I know nothing about most things in life...

But I know other games have this feature and OPF should have it.

It may be something impossible to change now, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a big mistake not having it, you like it or not, mate (Unlike me, "u" can read very well, so you won't have any problems understanding this simple concept).

Please, be a bit more positive and help us making this game a little bit better. That's all we are doing here. No hard feelings mate, we are all trying to find a solution... that's all.

Dawler suggestion is quite interesting. Maybe that's all we need.

Dan "Haddock"

[quiet]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Dawdler on 7:14 pm on Oct. 17, 2001
Well if we cant have "joining" what about making us a server list?

When you click on "multiplayer" OFP automaticly logs on to a preset server list IP (can change it if you want to make special IP games)

Then on each server there one could have the time, like "10 mins to start" or "10 min ingame, 20 min to restart"

The time thing is made up of something like the server sets the mission loop, then sets a pause time like 5-10mins. After that time is up, it will leave the east/west choose screen, go into soldier type selection and wait for 2 mins or so, unless every one has pressed ok.
Then it just starts the game! After the round is completed it will be repeated.

It would also be good to see "current mission:" and "next mission:"

IT WILL [TO SOME EXTENT] SOLVE THE PROBLEM!!!
And it will not mean any major rewriting in the engine, just the multiplayer part. How about that?
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

That's a great idea and probably can be done. It would solve what most people are concerned about - joining games that are already in progress. All this server reporting can be done via rulesets to gamespy or any other frontend to inform you of all this information. Simply refresh the server to get the latest info.

When you say the soldier selection screen - so it would have a countdown timer?

I believe that will work.

It'd be nice if there was a voting system for mission types, lengths, etc - see Tribes 2.

Probably all the votes for mission set up could be done before a mission starts.

Majority always wins.

People could just put checkmarks to what they want the times to be like - or the mission map etc - all on a setup screen.

If votes are tied it could just go to a default mode.

Anyhow, your idea probably will work.

I wonder what Suma will say.

He mentioned that some games aren't time based - but that's only if they are unlimited, otherwise 99% there is at least a time limit - despite whether flags are capped beforehand. Even if a game is set to unlimited, I'm sure something can be done where the server can inform waiting clients of the score or a warning that it's set to unlimited.

I think if it's a dedicated server the admin should be given an option to allow or disallow unlimited timed games - that would solve that problem.

If Suma rejects your idea (completely) than I doubt this game has much of a multiplayer future and you will see people playing other games. I hope he realizes we are trying to keep this game popular and worth playing for a long time.

It would further sales for BIS because they could make add on and mission packs - since the multiplayer would be a valuable option to single player.

What do think of his idea Suma?

Thanks!

(Edited by quiet at 9:47 pm on Oct. 17, 2001)

[Bronco]

Found this info @<hidden> <a href="http://www.coldwarflashpoint.com/.

"I" target="_blank">http://www.coldwarflashpoint.com/.

"I</a> notice there is a new update for GSA. The new update will auto download/install when you run GSA. It adds dedicated server listing for OFP. So now if you run a dedicated server you can get it listing on GSA. In theory, you click on the server and hit the join button, instead of going to a chat room the game will launch. You might have to wait for a new game in limbo".

Looks like a step in the right direction.

[quiet]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Bronco on 10:22 pm on Oct. 17, 2001
Found this info @<hidden> <a href="http://www.coldwarflashpoint.com/.

"I" target="_blank">http://www.coldwarflashpoint.com/.

"I</a> notice there is a new update for GSA. The new update will auto download/install when you run GSA. It adds dedicated server listing for OFP. So now if you run a dedicated server you can get it listing on GSA. In theory, you click on the server and hit the join button, instead of going to a chat room the game will launch. You might have to wait for a new game in limbo".

Looks like a step in the right direction.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

This was attempted but BIS needs work with GSA better to get it fixed.

The dedicated server listings are no longer there.

Suma, please help this work with Gamespy Arcade. You can contact me at tribes2quiet@<hidden> and I will get you in touch with our main GSA person.

Thanks!

[762WorldOrder]

Operation Flashpoint is probably the most bittersweet game I've ever played.  

Sweet because it's everything I've ever wanted in a game, bitter because I can only have the great MP experience once in a while when I happen to find a good server and don't get dumped before getting into the game.  

Max Payne was just released in July.  Has anyone even heard a whisper about it recently?  No, because once you're done with the SP game, it's all done.  

The same thing is happening to OFP in a way.  Most of the mainstream gaming audience has already migrated away to other games, turned off by the initial online gameplay issues and lack of join-in-game feature, which is a staple in any FPS game nowadays.  Only the dedicated, hard-core audience have the patience and resolve to stick with the MP aspect.  

Everyone else will just go play CS or DoD, because you don't have to wait 30 minutes to play the game for 30 minutes (or, as is usually the case, even less).    I can't even get into a game of more than 8 players, simply because of the fact that it is nearly impossible to find more than 8 people who all happen to be in the same place at the same time and have the patience necessary to wait it out.  

In games like CS and DoD, there is a snowball effect.  The server may start out slow, but once you get 3, 4, 5 people playing, the number quickly grows to 12 or more.  In OFP, the exact reverse is the norm.  Once people get dropped, there's no way for them to get back in.  I've had several games where I've started with 6 or more players and ended up running around by myself and didn't even know it for several minutes because there isn't even a message to tell you when people have dropped.  

I'll put this simply:  I just don't have the time to sit around waiting for a game to start.   The only time I get to play OFP MP is on weekend evenings, because it's the only time I have the spare time to devote to painstakingly hunting down a MP game that I can actually play.  

And to be honest, it really, really sucks, because I love this game so much.  

People just don't want to play when it's more work than fun to get into a game.

As it is, we now have to settle for imagining those huge battlefields, because they're not going to be a reality.  

*sigh*



(Edited by 762WorldOrder at 12:36 am on Oct. 18, 2001)

[Karmakaze]

I think if you just gave enough info so TASE could tell you if a game was in progress or waiting for players that'd be enough for me.

GSA is impossible to use on dial-up, so I just have to blindinly guess on TASE if a server is started already or not.

For scenarios where you can't show time left, show time played so far. If we see that a game has been running for 50 minutes already we know they can't have tooo much time left.

[quiet]

It could also show the setup limits.

For example if it requires 30 flag caps, then it can say.. score 10/30 - total # of caps or amount of kills, etc.

If the server is set to unlimited, it can also show that to warn a person.

Make them rulesets:

Gametime
TimeRemaining
Max_FlagCaps
FlagCaps

etc.

Dynamically changing rulesets would work with Gamespy3D, GamespyArcade, and ASE - you would merely setup filters based on rule sets.

Yes?


(Edited by quiet at 6:24 am on Oct. 18, 2001)

[Dawdler]

I dont want to have anything to do with gamespew at all, even if it has a dedicated server listing. Gamespew wrecks the whole game even more than the game does.

How much server space would it take to make a special server list just for OFP? How expensive can it be?
Where is Halflifes (CS, DOD, all mods) server list? How much does that cost? Does it cost more than the income for hundreds of thousands of copies of OFP sold (belive me this game could be big, even with millions of copies)?

See my post on page 4, it REALLY needs consideration. PLEASE, its all I ask, a response, something, a NO, or a YES, or a MAYBE, or NEVER IN YOUR LIFETIME. Something.

Btw, thanks for the support on my suggestion guys http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Dawdler]

Btw, maybe we should spam this topic over ALL forum sections, just to make us heard http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif,
Anyone know how to copy an entire thread?
Maybe not...

[Puke]

We'll i'll add my four penneth to keep this particular kettle boiling...

Ok, Suma says there will be too much data to transfer an in progress gamestate to a newly connecting client...

Pukes half baked idea No1 - "The Indestructable Island Idea" - Its a cop out but would it not reduce the amount of data to be transfered  if there was a server side button that rendered everything on an island indestructable except players & vehicles? Yes it would affect gameplay but would also increase the amount of ppl playing (buying?) the game if major hosts like Barrys World were inclined to run servers.....whilst now they are not because of the direct play/ppl whinning for a restart every 30 secs nature of the multiplayer game.

Btw I Love this friggin game its the cheese - i would still play coop with l33t m8's as i do right now, but it would also be nice to jump into ctf/dm frag fests run on REAL servers http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Recon]

Hey fellow gamers....perhaps Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon will be the solution to this...I'm sure they will know better this time around.

All you'll have to do is wait about 20 more days!

Go Ghost Recon!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[COL KNIGHT]

well I hate to bring up another game but this is a real good game lobbyhttp://208.231.90.239/df3lobbyq7.htm

[Recon]

How is the play online?

[Bronco]

Since JIP is not an option would it be possible to have a little more information in the list of servers. Just two things would help out.
1. "Waiting for players."
2. "Game in progress."
If you could see this information at Game Spy or ASE on the listing of servers there would be no more hit and miss about getting in a game. Problem solved, get to work BIS and Game Spy and get this done ASAP !!!!!

[Scorpy]

To all off u.

Create ure uwn server so ull always play http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[natas]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Bronco on 4:29 pm on Oct. 19, 2001
Since JIP is not an option would it be possible to have a little more information in the list of servers. Just two things would help out.
1.  "Waiting for players."  
2.  "Game in progress."
If you could see this information at Game Spy or ASE on the listing of servers there would be no more hit and miss about getting in a game. Problem solved, get to work BIS and Game Spy and get this done ASAP !!!!!
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

ASE already has this.

[Bronco]

Well if ASE has its not working just looked and this information is not there. Ping. flux,PL, players,Map(not working),Game(not working),address. And thats it no waiting for players or game in progress. Can you point out where to find this info ?

[natas]

There's another list under Oldies/OFP.

[Bronco]

Found it. Got to dig deep to see it needs to be moved to front page. Now if BIS and GS would work together and get this info to show up we might have something. THX natas for pointing this out. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[MajHavoc]

Join in Progress:

Last night I downloaded All Seeing Eye to try it out, esp, after reading about it here. Here's how it went.

I found a number of dedicated servers in the 1.27 folder and started to join them all, one at a time starting with the lowest ping. About 38-50 servers in all with pings under 200ms to me, some dedicated some not.

Out of all the servers that I joined, almost all games were in progress and when I asked how long till the game was finished, I usually got a reply like "Dunno", or "No set time", or "we just started". The most surprising answer I got was "How did you find my Server?!", I would explain how I found it, using ASE etc. and the responce over all was "less than welcome", like I said surprising esp. how tight the OFP community is or seems to be. I digress.. At anyrate I opted not to wait and just moved on to the next server.... Out of the 2 hours I spent looking for a game to play, I found 1 server that I could play as soon as I got on, it was deathmatch. I prefer Co-Op or team DM, team CTF so I played for a bit and left. I went back to playing the SP Campaign....

My take on this is that JIP is essential if you want to maintain an active/healthy/growing online community and such. Let's face it, with the way the world is now, we want to play when we want to play =), maybe in Europe the attitude is more laid back. I think most of us come from a Quake, Tribes, Unreal background and loved joining a game almost instantaneously.

Another solution is to give the user something to do while waiting for the game to get to a point where the user can join it. If I remember correctly in Unreal Tournament you can be playing in practice mode while you are downloading one of the huge maps from the server you are going to join. You can see the maps dl progress while playing right on your screen. When the DL is done click on your MP game and your playing. Why not allow the user to play "scirmish mode", ie MP maps that have AI troops or Single Mission/Campaign mode and then just send some message to his screen or send him directly to the MP join screen.

This is just some stuff I've seen, I'm a rookie to the community as I just got the game last sunday. I do know this......... I'm not playing online alot, even though I prefer it. My enthusiasm for the game is becoming somewhat diminished. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

IMHO

Maj

(Edited by MajHavoc at 6:41 pm on Oct. 19, 2001)

[Cle Hicks]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Capitaine Haddock on 8:30 pm on Oct. 17, 2001
Cle Hicks...

I know nothing about the code, I know nothing about script states, I know nothing about init phases, I know nothing about the game engine, I know nothing about programming, I know nothing about what BIS is doing now, I know nothing about what they are going to do next, and I know nothing about most things in life...

But I know other games have this feature and OPF should have it.

It may be something impossible to change now, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a big mistake not having it, you like it or not, mate (Unlike me, "u" can read very well, so you won't have any problems understanding this simple concept).

Please, be a bit more positive and help us making this game a little bit better. That's all we are doing here. No hard  feelings mate, we are all trying to find a solution... that's all.

Dawler suggestion is quite interesting. Maybe that's all we need.

Dan "Haddock"


[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>Plz mate, note that I've *NO* "bad feelings".
And asking for some feature which is *NOT* possible to implement the way the game is will *NOT* make it any better.
So I am bein' positive, whereas those who cry "I want JIP or I won't play OFP anymore" don't help in any way.

It doesn't matter a thing if other games have JIP: those games are *NOT* OFP, they aren't in any way as sophisticated as OFP is.
Think about this: "Hey, I see some games let U pilot star-fighters and destroy enemies with lasers from orbit. I want this feature or I won't play OFP anymore..."
From a logical point of view, the abovementioned stupidity is not far from what u r sayin... Did u catch the point?

Stated that BIS (not me or someone else who understands a little of programming) declared JIP *NOT* feasable, I just wanted ppl to stop complaining and start proposing something alternative - as I did. Do u understand this?

Thx

Peace

(Edited by Cle Hicks at 5:12 am on Oct. 20, 2001)

[Hotdognz]

Well in that case Suma your game will die as a MP game online for the net as it all ready has with me, I just got fed up of waiting for servers to finish there games, so I jumped back in to CS as it was easy and I could join anytime. Shame I really think you didnt think out your MP straterdy too well BIS you have a great game that could have kicked the number one online game into dust with some thought from your team.

For a LAN though OPFP once the netcode is fixed will still be great and Will be played a lot at our LAN sessions.

[COL KNIGHT]

I agree my squad has went back to land warrior for now. The game has a lot of bugs, lag problems and conection issues. For a game of this magnitude you need to have it set up to where people can join in the middle of the game.. It real simple just have a base for each team, with the battle in the middle. When some one enters the game they start at the base. Now from here they can be trucked or flown or heck they can evan run to the front line. just like reinforcement . They should fix the respawn that way to..

[quiet]

I hate to spam the same thing over and over, but it's important...

Mid-game join isn't a big deal anymore:

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=3&topic=534

[mckolley]

Thank thank you. It was like you reading my mind. If ofp guys have replay to this indeed frustration will have the effect that all players will be gone in the moment a simular but more mp friendly game arrives. I speak not about rejoing the slaugher with a keystroke but as "reenforcement" and I am happy to wait 5 minutes becasue this keeps the dm type of players away.
I spend roughly 1 hour trying to play for 1 hoiur actually playing and still have trouble with getting stuck, loosing connection perheps because the server guy calls it a day and i still hope that ther will be a bunch of "official servers" established. Emotionally it has been from wow THE GAME to ...

[Dawdler]

"I spend roughly 1 hour trying to play for 1 hoiur actually playing"

That describes OFP VERY well. I just spent 15 mins waiting for a game, then the game server seemed to crash... Before I waited 10 mins at gamespy trying to find a game where the host was awake, about the same time in the EYE finding a game with more than 0 players.
Then I found a server! But it was automated without a host and we where two people... on a CTF mission...
We really need ingame server listing...
I have restarted OFP 5 times today, for about 30 minutes play. It is an extremely stupid way of handling MP. And my firewall still locks it up so i have to shut it off every time...

[Capitaine Haddock]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">By: -= C.le Hicks =-
Stated that BIS (not me or someone else who understands a little of programming) declared JIP *NOT* feasable, I just wanted ppl to stop complaining and start proposing something alternative - as I did. Do u understand this? Thx Peace [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Yep. I have to agree with you, mate. You're right... As BIS says they won't do it, I'll stop moaning and try to find alternatives... I love this game too much to stop playing it.

What about including something like ASE or Gamespy into the actual game, a bit like in Unreal Tourney?

With an option to filter games by "Waiting for players" only?

That way we could load the game, refresh the server list and choose any of the "open and waiting" servers. All inside the game, to speed up things.

Does this sounds possible?

Dan "Haddock"

[Puke]

You lot wont believe this but...it happened! - kinda

there was six of us playing a 1.27 coop game with NO respawn, one of our squad - "Porta" crashed & so disconnected...we played on and about five mins later Porta reconnected but he didnt start in the lobby no, HE JOINED OUR GAME IN PROGRESS!

ok, he was there from the start but the fact is he did join a game in progress - i have witnesses!

If the bugs in ofp can make this happen why not the rest of it? http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Dawdler]

about alternatives, I posted what I think is an exellent one a while ago, "alternative to joining during battles", but no one reply not even devs...

And Puke it might have something to do with the fact that his character, the soldier was already IN the game when he started...
Did he join like, before there was a man just standing there then suddenly it was player controlled, or what? describe it closer. Or did he came in as a seagull? Or did he just pop up?

[Puke]

Dawdler


"And Puke it might have something to do with the fact that his character, the soldier was already IN the game when he started...
Did he join like, before there was a man just standing there then suddenly it was player controlled, or what? describe it closer. Or did he came in as a seagull? Or did he just pop up?"

- All i know is he was in game at the start as a soldier, crashed + disconnected, a few minutes later he reconnected and there he was at the start of the map as the same soldier + all his gear (i think)

[COL KNIGHT]

Look let me vent a little:) ok OPF is very different from the game im use to. Me and my squad are from the DF series. The one thing I hated with DF was the fact of quick respawn. With that option on there was no way you and your squad could truely work as a squad. So OFP has good marks there. but now I have to B***h about that there should be respawn like in my previous post. we can call it reinforcement. If you get killed you have a time out like mckolley said and then arive back at your base to make your way to the front lines. 2nd issues: They will have to fix the game were you can join the game in mid stream. I have been in many servers where the host was waiting to fill up 10 slot and we set there for 10 to 15 min. waiting until he finally got tired of waiting and just started the game. Now during that time a # of people would jump in and wait a bit than leave and go some where else. So that why I believe they should fix that... 3rd GAMESPY SUCKS... like I said earler we need a game lobby like NOVA got. real easy to find your game http://208.231.90.239/df3lobbyq7.htm and join it all it take is for OFP to make a game browser that will link up like they do in game spy and let everone host there on games. Guys dont take any of this the wrong way im not try to compare the 2 but I am try to take the best out of both games to make on a better game..

[Dawdler]

COL KNIGHT, see my alternative thread, I think thats what you are thinking, and thats what we need.

Puke, if that is true, it proves that the delay that would appear when someone joins ingame is not that bad. We should really need his own thoughts on this...
If he only could tell us EXACTLY how he started the game.
Or we should try to replicate the bug (THE BEST BUG EVER IN GAME HISTORY), if it can be done...
It all comes down to whether its true or not.

[Bmeister]

You could implement a rounds concept similar to CS. When you are killed then you are dead until the round ends i.e. either your team or the enemy is wiped out or objectives are met. This would allow new players to join the next round, and you could return state of all objects back the their original, game beginning status. This would prevent the mass amount of data that needs to be sent to someone joining during play. Now if you allowed a spectator mode, then you would have to send the data to the user. Just an idea.

[KaRRiLLioN]

Joining while a game is in progress is absolutely VITAL to OFP MP. I've run tons of dedicated servers and that's the only thing that keeps me from running one for OFP. See, I and many other dedicated server ops have access to T-1's and up so the bandwidth isn't a problem from the server side. Even if it is a problem with the client, there are things that you don't have to update immediately when a person joins. It needs to be done incrementally.
First they choose a side, and then are placed in the game. After that soldier positions are updated, then vehicles, etc and bullet positions are updated last primarily because they change the most. Just ease the player into the game. This will work. There's no need to immediately update everything on the map because there will be a number of things that they can't immediately see.

OFP does have a much grander size map with more stuff available but BIS must try this or it won't last. I refuse to join games in progress and wait in the waiting room. Rather I start my own games and play them. Unfortunately running a game from my own machine lags it more than neccessary but I can't just set up a dedicated server because when only one person joins they have to wait forever for someone else to join and then the game starts and anyone else joining can't playing immediately until the current game is over.

Anyway I will continue to put up with the aggravatingly long time it takes to set up a game of OFP and pray for your willingness and success at making this game what it truly could be...the king of all games.

Thanks!

[Dawdler]

Whats the point of this?

We have 6 pages, almost a hundred posts, more than 2000 views, which seems to be the greatest number ever achived in the forum, I at least havent seen anything larger.

Yet, the last dev response was at page 2...
Does the devteam has a policy of not posting when the number of posts surpasses 20-30?
This is not all about us nagging on joining in battle, we give suggestions to.

We should continue posting untill it hits more posts than its on the general forum, and more views than posts on the old forum.

In short, we should continue posting untill this thread is all that is allowed due to lack of server space for anything else.

[quiet]

Either that or give up and read this:

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=3&topic=543

[Dawdler]

OFP is uncomparable to MOHAA.

First of all, MOH is during the WW2.
Secondly, have you ever tried to create a Q3 map where there are say 40-50 AI soldiers, 10 tanks, a map which takes 20-30 min to run across, some 20-30 towns, an airstrip, 10 large forrests and trees all over the place, probably something like 1000-2000 in total?

But you are right, if the entire SDK doesnt come out soon, so I can play I44 on OFP, I will definetly abandon OFP for MOHAA. The last will probably be a lot more fun.
And less frustrating to play in MP.

[NaturalBornKiller]

Since there is probably no hope for ofp (its creators did not play mp games themselv I guess) it still gives a taste of things to come.
Anybody knows what is out there or shortly will be to meet this standard?
I play counterstriek, great game with even sometimes working voice communication, great play but now limited.
I play DF landwarrior, also a great game for us but I get bored to play the same maps again and again and no vehicels, the single player game is not worth mentioning
because of poor AI.
Could Wolfenstein mp fill the gap? I heard about WWII online but cannot find it. any suggestions (Perhaps BIS wakes up if player move on...)

[ltme]

just to add my thoughts..... I'm not a programmer, so I have no idea whether or not this is feasible (I don't know about data volumes, peformance impacts, programming effort etc).

Would it be possible for the server to log any relevant outgoing messages in a file? Then as people joined, they get sent this log file in the same way as a mission file.... Their PC processes it (as though they received the messages in the first place).

That should be close enough to allow spectating at least, which to be honest would be good enough for me. I don't mind watching for 10-15 minutes, as I could then tell whether or not it was worth waiting for...... which is the problem at the moment.....

[Capitaine Haddock]

I've tried Wolfenstein (the demo) and it's not bad.

It's incredibly easy to get into a running game, and there's lots of nice details like de ability to select your soldier type as you wait to respawn. Top quality.

The only thing I don't like is the aiming. After the ultra accurate shooting in flashpoint, it's really hard to know in Wolf if you are hitting or not soebody. I found it very frustrating and made me realize how good is Flashpoint doing this (nice acuracy and nice red-cloud-hitting effect).

Funny thing is that just when we managed to have a few regular Flashpoint players to play MP games, Wolfenstein demo was released and we lost all those players for ever... Just because it's so easy to get into a wolfenstein game. Now it's only 2 of us playing Flashpoint. And Wolfenstein is just a demo... scary. A lesson to be learned.

Dan "Haddock"

[Gunny]

And what about this topic?
<a href="http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=3&topic=235

by" target="_blank">http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....35

by</a> Suma about JIP:
"It would take a lot of time to implement it. We also do not see it really important. We understand it is very attractive option, but for real tactical team play (in which we think OFP qualities shine best) it is almost useless."

Well, its possible but Dev Team simply dont want it. But after all these posts, did not we prove that JIP was needed?

[MajHavoc]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Gunny on 4:00 pm on Oct. 21, 2001
And what about this topic?
<a href="http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=3&topic=235

by" target="_blank">http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....35

by</a> Suma about JIP:
"It would take a lot of time to implement it.  We also do not see it really important. We understand it is very attractive option, but for real tactical team play (in which we think OFP qualities shine best) it is almost useless."

Well, its possible but Dev Team simply dont want it. But after all these posts, did not we prove that JIP was needed?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Hmmmm based on the popularity of this thread, as of this writing, here are the stats :

104 replies, viewed 2182 times

It seems to me that maybe they should take another look at it, ie, JIP that is.

Based on sales numbers of units sold, and taken in consideration the number of unique posts here, they may think the numbers are not significant (YET) to make the needed changes based on that ratio. The average person just wants to play, he does'nt post, he does'nt call tech support unless the call is free, if it does'nt work or they have to make an "effort' to play or have to 'wait', he'll just return the game for trade or refund to place of purchase (if there is a policy to trade or return) for the reason his "instant gratification" is not statisfied. Unlike some of us that really want to see this game become the best it can be of this genre. We're the ones that make up the "fan base" and will probabley buy an add-on or OFP 2, not the casual player. The "product returns" data is'nt even considered by any marketing arm of a distributor or production company until 60-90 days AFTER the game hit's the shelf. Unless the return numbers are HUGE. Know this, I am not advocating returning OFP in any way, I'm just saying that it may take time to see any changes. Heck, it may even be OFP2 or an add-on before we see any of our suggestions (if at all), and that seems to be the norm today. For the most part a game is "driven" by marketing (suits and bean counters) not development. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

/0

Maj

**** PS ****

The above post was written BEFORE I saw Suma's post on 10/15/01, Doh! But I figured I'd leave it posted. See bottom of the next reply.


(Edited by MajHavoc at 5:17 pm on Oct. 21, 2001)

[MajHavoc]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Suma on 11:14 am on Oct. 15, 2001
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
From the resons above, I can say that almost certainly there will be no patch for OFP that will enable "Join in progress".
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Suma,

Okay. I understand what you are saying. However, are there any hooks you can put in the wait  screen to allow a player to maybe continue a campaign, play single missions in "stand alone" mode, while the current MP game is being played and completed? Then when the MP game done event is triggered, close the campaign/ single mission game with a save option (if he has'nt saved already) and pull the player to the team selection event?

It seems to me that some info is sent to the client when the MP session is completed to trigger the client to go to the team selection event. Could some code be implimented to intercept that with out a major impact on the OFP "core" code base?

My point is if you cant give us JIP without major impact on the code can you at least give us something to do while we wait? http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

/0

Maj

PS: I seemed to have over looked your post when it was first made, I apologize for that! http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Or I would have posted sooner...

(Edited by MajHavoc at 4:47 pm on Oct. 21, 2001)

[MajHavoc]

Comment:

To the Dev team:

Just wanted to say that I am really enjoying OFP and impressed with your efforts to monitor this Forum and jump in, even when the info is disappointing and not what we want. I respect that! I also respect that you're listening..... thanx!

To the Gamers:

You guys are a great bunch, level headed, and mature (for the most part http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif).

/0 <salute>

Maj

[Dawdler]

Eh... Yeah, they are listening to us...
Thats why they always post here like every day...
Thats why they respond to our suggestions about JIP...
Thats why my alternative suggestion has fallen of the page to page 2 without a response...

Big Brother sees us. And, oh, did I forget to mention? Hes blind.

The last post is on page 2.
Never seen a response to our options on JIP.
My alternative solution recieved praises here, but not by devs.

[ltme]

just downloaded the wolfenstein multiplayer demo: great fun.... can't compare it with op flash (like comparing a cartoon to a film!), but the multiplayer is a blast....

oh well, it's op flash for single player only from now on I think (which it's fantastic at). I'll check back now and again to see if they've improved the mp though....

[KaRRiLLioN]

BIS please follow Valve's example. When HL was released the netcode was piss-poor and you couldn't even use vehicles in the game because they'd jump all over the place. Valve however improved the netcode and has milked HL for a LOT of money. So you see, you aren't wasting time by working only on OFP. With a solid multiplayer component it can be a highly popular game for years to come.
JIP for CTF, DM and team vs. team games really should be available. It's a vital MP component. The gameplay is virtually perfect and even Team Fortress 2 won't be able to hold a candle to this game if you get the JIP much like most of the other games out there.

PLEASE, PLEASE consider this! I love this game too much to see it relegated to the junk heap so soon simply because the MP doesn't allow for JIP.

Thanks!

[Col Rambo SBS]

Ok, Ive gatheres my thought, and those of others, and made a short list of things. Its posted here:-
http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....pic=552 (http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=3&topic=552)

[Morchaoron]

So joining during a battle can't be done, I can live with that.
BUT it would be nice if you were somehow able to see more info about the map thats is currently on, like if there is a time or frag limit (and what the limit is and how many time has passed and frags have been made)
And in co-op missions, how many people are still alive.
This would make things much easier because you would atleast know how much longer you would have to wait before you can join.

And if multiplayer will be less painfull, more people will play it, and then there will be more servers, and if there will be more servers, it will be easier to find a nice server that is about to start a new map http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

(Edited by Morchaoron at 12:45 am on Oct. 22, 2001)

[Col Rambo SBS]

The thing is, it can be done, with the effort from BIS, they have said that, only it would be hard to do and there not willing to give it a go.

[Capitaine Haddock]

Apparently this part of the network code is buried deep in the game code, so rewriting it would mean almost rewriting the game.

It looks like the only way of having proper MP games is to arrange games in advance.
Maybe we could use the forum to announce server IPs and times to start the game.

Or find some mates with flashpoint... I lost most of them when the demo of Wolwenstein was released.

Dan "Haddock"

[Dawdler]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Col Rambo SBS on 1:35 am on Oct. 22, 2001
The thing is, it can be done, with the effort from BIS, they have said that, only it would be hard to do and there not willing to give it a go.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

*Grabs an M16 and goes after the devs*

*looks at the building where their sitting and programming*

AW, #### WHICH IDIOT PUT UP THE SIGN "PROGRAMMING IN PROGRESS" AND LOCKED THE DOOR?!

*Bangs my rifle agianst the door, someone reacts*

"Sorry the door does not support opening while programming is in progress, come back later"

DARN! WHO THE #### CREATED THAT DOOR?

*Look at the map, looks at the compass, looks at the map again*

Lets see... Home is... There, west of La Trinite... Or was it north of Houdan? When I come to think on, where am I?

*Looks at the car passing by, looks at my satchel, looks at the car again*

Oh, well, off to have some fun. Lets see how high that baby can fly, hehehe....

[Dawdler]

Aw, still no response? Well keep on bumpin, sooner or later they will notice...

[FCorp]

If JIP is to deep to fix.
maybe in ofp 2 then?

[Vincent Vega]

ROFL @<hidden> Dawdler http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

nice little joke http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[GrapeMan]

haha, OFP is the greatest game ever, but I guess they are making this game for a certain type of people, as they are not going to go most people's way, they do have some supporters for how the game is current;y doing in multiplayer mode.

well I read this whole thread, and about 2% of the people like the way the multiplayer is. and the other 98% want JIP.(Join in Progress)

I think we should all stop complaining, If you want a good multiplayer game that has JIP, you should wait for another game to come out because OFP isn't made for people like us, it's made for those 2% of the people.

notice this forum only has 5000+ users.

Ghost recon isn't even out yet, it has 300000 users.. BIS likes to do things their way, as quoted in another post for why they don't implement JIP, the answer was theyt don't see the point of doing it because it's a really tactical game, something along that line.

So, stop bothering the developers and go wait for other games, mod etc...OFP is a great game that the majority of the people are gonna stop playing, so be it.

I'll still play it, by myself I guess...if you 98% of the players don't like this, then don't bother buying the next BIS game...maybe check out ghost recon or some other not as big mapped games.

hehe anyways here is the bottom line:

In a bussiness world you don't do things the way you want unless you have manopilized the market like microsift.

IN a bussnessworld YOU DO WHAT THE CUSTOMERS ASK OR THEY GO SOMEWHERE ELSE

yes, to you guys who think people whining losers for asking for JIP, well they are whining losers, and that's what most customers are going to do when things don't go their way, and then they leave...that's the way this sad world works, DEVELOPERS of OFP and the rest of you, i hope u get my point, I speak from a neutral point of view since i don't ask for JIP and i don't plan on playing OFP either since i see so many complaints about it. same will go with all the other prospect buyers.

[GrapeMan]

This game is awesome i decide that i'm gonna start plaing it again, i think the name of this game is called
WAIT AROUND IN GAMESPY

[Recon]

I agree totally with your comments. It's the stance I took after the developer (I find it interesting that the project manager isn't making these statements anyway...if you ever wrote code, the developer doesn't typically make these decisions) shot down the JIP solution.
OFP is good for one thing really - it marks the beginning of a different type of game...and really, BIS is like the pioneers (along with that WWII online game) of large scale war maps.
I still have one major complaint - this issue is a lack of vision, something that should have been in the original design...lack of vision and bad design is always the downfall of a software package.

[Dawdler]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Vincent Vega on 12:50 am on Oct. 23, 2001
ROFL @<hidden> Dawdler http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

nice little joke http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Joke? Whos joking?

[Bronco]

...the counter should also count down from the alotted time rather than count up...that way people would know how long is left in the game rather than how long it has been played thus far. Quote from another thread dam good idea and should be easy to implement.

[Dawdler]

"should" be easy is not the same as "is" easy...

[Striiker]

I have to agree with the observations made by others in that we will NOT be seeing Join In Progress for Operation FlashPoint. The developers have been upfront and honest. They said no, it will not be happening. I am sorry to hear that (as are most of us) since we all know what the potential is. We've all had our fun playing with an average of 4-8 players on some of the maps. Imagine playing with 30 other players! Well, sadly, that will not be attainable any time soon. Perhaps we can encourage them to develop an Internet optimized build of the game that allows what we ask for.
Leave in the attention to detail we all love. Leave in the accurate depiction of tactical combat. Change or remove content that prevents joining in progress. Optimize the network code for internet play. Release a new product and watch the coin roll in.

[ltme]

btw, i hope the developers don't think we're getting at them: it's a great game and they've done a great job.

we wouldn't be so frustrated if we weren't that bothered about playing the game!

[COL KNIGHT]

Well you know by them not wanting to give us what we want then the game will probably loose steam with the die hard gamers. I mean #### when you got ghost recon and Global Operations comming out, you have lots of options...

[quiet]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Dawdler on 2:11 pm on Oct. 21, 2001
OFP is uncomparable to MOHAA.

First of all, MOH is during the WW2.
Secondly, have you ever tried to create a Q3 map where there are say 40-50 AI soldiers, 10 tanks, a map which takes 20-30 min to run across, some 20-30 towns, an airstrip, 10 large forrests and trees all over the place, probably something like 1000-2000 in total?

But you are right, if the entire SDK doesnt come out soon, so I can play I44 on OFP, I will definetly abandon OFP for MOHAA. The last will probably be a lot more fun.
And less frustrating to play in MP.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I understand, but did you see the video?

It's Private Ryan meets an FPS:

http://www.gamespot.com/promos/demoad/index.html?ftp://ftp.zdnet.com/gs/action/mohaa/mohaa_pc_8_wm.zip

I love that video.. most of the game is like that, with of course peaceful moments.. check out the other videos:

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/media/0,11100,457649,00.html

[Mr Pedersen]

Quote: from Ondrej Spanel, Lead Programmer

"It would take a lot of time to implement it.
We also do not see it really important. "

-----

Why work with developing games in the firts palce then?

[Mr Pedersen]

Oops,
in the firts place then?

[Dawdler]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from quiet on 9:22 am on Oct. 24, 2001

I understand, but did you see the video?

It's Private Ryan meets an FPS:

http://www.gamespot.com/promos/demoad/index.html?ftp://ftp.zdnet.com/gs/action/mohaa/mohaa_pc_8_wm.zip

I love that video.. most of the game is like that, with of course peaceful moments.. check out the other videos:

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/media/0,11100,457649,00.html
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Yes I have seen the video. Ive seen all videos and all images and I really look forward to it. In MP it will probably be on of the coolest games ever, us killing each other on the beach...

[Recon]

yeah, looks awesome...don't forget Ghost Recon aslo...just went Gold.

Now, I just need to finish up with OFP sp - is it legal to sell your game to someone? Cause without a good mp, this game is shelf material

[Dawdler]

Well it is your game. If you wish to sell it you should be able to do that, just as long as you dont copy it.
But selling the original must be legal, otherwise all trade in shops are illegal...

[Bronco]

., Medal of Honor will use the Quake III engine, putting players in the realm of World War II. You'll be storming the beaches of Normandy, driving military vehicles, and busting a few Nazi heads in Medal of Honor: Allied Assault Hmmmmm Watch out BIS

[quiet]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Recon on 2:27 pm on Oct. 24, 2001
yeah, looks awesome...don't forget Ghost Recon aslo...just went Gold.

Now, I just need to finish up with OFP sp - is it legal to sell your game to someone?  Cause without a good mp, this game is shelf material

[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I don't think Ghost Recon has mid-game join. ;-) Or does it?

I'm also getting Return To Castle Wolfenstein:

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/previews/0,10869,2817411,00.html

and for a cool video:

http://www.gamespot.com/live/streamer.html?format=asf&speed=100&path=wolfquakecon_pc.asx&title=Return+to+Castle+Wolfenstein+Video+Interview

He's playing in single player but it's still neat to the see the game.

Also, a cool interview with the CEO of ID Software - gives a lot of insight into RTCW:

http://www.gamespot.com/live/streamer.html?format=asf&speed=100&path=hollensheadinterview2.asx&title=Todd+Hollenshead+Video+Interview

Then, of course the official trailer:

http://www.gamespot.com/live/streamer.html?format=asf&speed=100&path=wolfenstein_pc_trailer.asx&title=Return+to+Castle+Wolfenstein+E3+2001+Trailer

I have mine on pre-order. =)

(Edited by quiet at 6:11 am on Oct. 25, 2001)

[quiet]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Bronco on 5:14 pm on Oct. 24, 2001
., Medal of Honor will use the Quake III engine, putting players in the realm of World War II. You'll be storming the beaches of Normandy, driving military vehicles, and busting a few Nazi heads in Medal of Honor: Allied Assault     Hmmmmm   Watch out BIS
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Check this out if you have the bandwidth, they are new videos. =)

http://195.92.178.248/media2/bridge2.mov

Notice in the following where he gets a headshot and shoots a soldier in the leg. =)

http://mohaa.ea.com/movies/intelligence/videos/MOHAA.EA.com_M5L3Fail_hi.mov



(Edited by quiet at 6:45 am on Oct. 25, 2001)


(Edited by quiet at 6:49 am on Oct. 25, 2001)

[Recon]

have you seen the Ghost Recon movies?  Closer to OF imo. These are nice though.

Seems a bit more 'cartoony' than OF - too much like a arcade game when he has a smg, then pulls out a rifle - I hope they don't have that in the game - could you imagine lugging around multiple guns like that in war?

(Edited by Recon at 2:59 pm on Oct. 25, 2001)

[Bronco]

I checked out the movies of Medal of Honor and it looks like quake remade with WW2 skins. I dont think OFP has anything to worry about from Medal of Honor. BIS needs to do a little tweaking of the MP and people will be playing OFP for a long time.

[Morchaoron]

Castle Wolfenstein is nothing more then a nice looking Quake 3 mod, and its gameplay is far different from OFP.

Ever played the quake 3 mod 'Urban Terror'?

Graphics are just as nice as Wolf and its much more fun IMO (--> IMO <---)
www.urbanterror.net

But they really need to improve OFP alot.
I don't want wolf, medal of honor or whatever...
I want OFP http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

(btw: I know wolf is still a 'beta', 'demo', 'test' or whatever)

[quiet]

But look at Wolf's stats:

http://www.gamespy.com/stats/

And that's just a test. Once the full game comes out, woah!

[Recon]

Yeah, we want OFP, but I want to play online with friends, hop on a server and play (yes, like other games: CS, Tribes 2, UT, Q3 - hello).

Ghost Recon might be the answer...

[MajHavoc]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from quiet on 5:28 am on Oct. 27, 2001
But look at Wolf's stats:

http://www.gamespy.com/stats/

And that's just a test. Once the full game comes out, woah!
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Well, at least it's in the top 10!

/0

Maj

[NaturalBornKiller]

Let me try again to adress the problem:

1. Mid game joining: it is open to diskussion and in my opinion not an absolute necessity provided problem 2 is solved.

2. Internet play: this is a world of s**t,
at gamespy
- 1 hour searching 1 hour playing
- with host stopping at his will
- connections lost
- game spy crashing with s**tty spying program
- not enough choice
- dedicated server which are empty

- the eye (THEY WANT US TO PAY FOR IT, wake up),
- player dropping out ,
- high ping

To solve this bis should establish servers like you find with delta force themselve.

I think no one of BIS had any idea what mp means. Let them play one evening with gamspy and we would find an apology here from them to all player who bought the game for the mp option as I did.

What a waste of a good game shame on you.

I believe all the game magazines who where so positive about the game never played online which tells us somthing about the throughess of mgame magazine articles.

[Gunny]

Well, i`ve started this thread and let me finish this one.
1. JIP is unreal on this version of game engine thats why we have to wait for OF2.
2. OF is the best of all cause its very realistic and first real widescale tactical shooter with abilities to drive any vehicles
3. Dev Team do their best to make the game better
4. Real-time web-based server query by LordNam is great and makes process of search and connect a bit easier
5. Thats all, now yo turn http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

(Edited by Gunny at 2:04 pm on Oct. 27, 2001)


(Edited by Gunny at 2:06 pm on Oct. 27, 2001)

[NaturalBornKiller]

And where can I find this famous LordNam?

[Gunny]

his site
<a href="http://www.wkk.dk

his" target="_blank">http://www.wkk.dk

his</a> script (PHP4 required)
<a href="http://www.wkk.dk/download.php?op=viewdownload&cid=2

examples" target="_blank">http://www.wkk.dk/download.php?op=viewdownload&cid=2

examples</a>
http://www.wkk.dk/serverqueries.php


(Edited by Gunny at 8:52 am on Oct. 28, 2001)

[Recon]

Well NaturalBorn - you are a fortunate one - I've never been able to find a server and play yet...

I think advertising that you can play online is a marketing scam - piece of crap game imo. Back to CS, a REAL online game.

[Morchaoron]

hmmm Counterstrike has alot of waiting too
hanging in spectator mode half of the time is not my idea of playing a game, even if your good, those cheaters will get you anyway, even on those PB servers...

BUT being able to play after an hour of searching/waiting is no fun either, and I hope BIS will find a way to reduce the waiting time. (by being able to see more info about a server like max time limit or kills or something like that)

[COL KNIGHT]

LOL #### OFP will die before it even has a real chance to launch http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[mikes2nd]

Don't worry you got Ghost Recon, Hidden & Dangerous 2... The game from 7th. The ww2 game from EA.

THEN STAR WARS BABY! YEAH, massively mutltiplayer fps's that run forever!

Im all over star wars now that it went fps shooter style.

Run vehicles all over planets, not just islands. Then the first expansion comes out and you get Tactical space fighter simulation added on.(tie fighter vs xwing style).

[Morchaoron]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from COL KNIGHT on 5:44 am on Oct. 28, 2001
LOL #### OFP will die before it even has a real chance to launch http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

That entirely depends on how much BIS is willing and able to do about this game.

[COL KNIGHT]

well I think that that has already been established what they are willing to do. I mean that what all of these post are about. #### go back and reread them all...

[JUSTOR]

CS DOES NOT EVEN COME CLOSE TO FLASH POINT. I DELETED COUNTER-STRIKE OFF MY MACHINE. CS is so lame. And Played beta 1 till present untill flash point came out. They have add more weapons in one month than CS has added since it came out. CS is so unrealistic too I hated the quake jumping people running around jumping like bunny rabits, head shots with aim bots and every other cheat that was made. I deleted CS off my box and now I have FLASHPOINT IT WILL NEVER GO BACK. I argee that FLASH POINT needs to have the ability to come in to an open slot of the game. It can even work with a coop too. let say you got 3 people in the game and the rest of your team is AI, well that means the rest of the AI on you team is open slots and they just become one of your team untill there is no room left. But the main thing is if you could join mid game there would be alot more action in the server... on a good T-1 server when people could jooin in it would become all out WAR and I KNOW that is what all us FLASHPOINT FANS WANT!!!! WARRRR!!!!!!!!!

[Johnrx86]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from JUSTOR on 2:57 pm on Nov. 9, 2001
CS DOES NOT EVEN COME CLOSE TO FLASH POINT. I DELETED COUNTER-STRIKE OFF MY MACHINE. CS is so lame. And Played beta 1 till present untill flash point came out. They have add more weapons in one month than CS has added since it came out. CS is so unrealistic too I hated the quake jumping people running around jumping like bunny rabits, head shots with aim bots and every other cheat that was made. I deleted CS off my box and now I have FLASHPOINT IT WILL NEVER GO BACK. I argee that FLASH POINT needs to have the ability to come in to an open slot of the game. It can even work with a coop too. let say you got 3 people in the game and the rest of your team is AI, well that means the rest of the AI on you team is open slots and they just become one of your team untill there is no room left.  But the main thing is if you could join mid game there would be alot more action in the server... on a good T-1 server when people could jooin in it would become all out WAR and I KNOW that is what all us FLASHPOINT FANS WANT!!!! WARRRR!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Cs rules man. I was soooooo dissapointed when i tried to play this game online.

[Bronco]

I thought this thread died.

[Dawdler]

It did. But some newbie revived it. Theres absolutely no point though.

[ControlZ]

 I love Flashpoint, and I want to play it online. But I'm not going to sit around for an unknown # of minutes watching a "Game In Progress" screen.  

 If join in progress isn't possible, can we at least have the server broadcast the time remaining?  Then we could use that info to decide what server to join.

If BIS won't do that, it's almost something somebody could hack to read the value from the running server and make it available via a third-party program. Sort of like Punkbuster for Half-Life.

 Operation Flashpoint is as much a benchmark game as Doom was, but it's so frustrating that the multiplayer sucks.

[whisperFFW06]

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
How do you know the remaining time of a coop mission?
http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[Die Alive]

I won't bother reading all of this thread, becasue it's an non-issue in my books.  I only play Co-Op MP games, so personally I have no need for JIP.  I like to get a few gamers, get a good mission, then we talk about the mission and how we're going to proceede in the mission. Sure sometimes I get disconnected while loading the mission and that's a pain, but I don't want to see gamers just respawn in the middle of our co-op game and then ask what's going on and what's the plan is, I just want that done once at the beginning.

-=Die Alive=-

[whisperFFW06]

We do think the same .

[Toxic Avenger]

I think this sums up OFP
A. It was made thinking that the SP part of it would be more important then the MP.
B. BIS was, ans is wrong, MP is at least 60% of the game now-a-days.
C. OFP has a very limited life, its just too buggy and unwieldy. If your going to make a WAR game, it should support enough people to make it a WAR. BIS's netcode is too weak for such. Poor doomed game, had such potential too.

[Recon]

I agree with Toxic totally...I'm disapointed personally -but ever since I started playing the Ghost Recon demo where I can support 6 people without lag on my DSL....I'll consider my $40 spent for a ok game and put it up by other games (along side just dead games as Sin - ever see anyone play Sin? Then look at Halflife and tell me multiplayer isn't important....either make it for the quick buck (OFP), or with a vision...)

My last post on this whole forum, 1.30 didn't do much for me...tired of the game.

And the guy who said 'i play only coop with friends.." My friends won't buy the game because the mp sucks.

[Die Alive]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Recon on 6:11 pm on Nov. 13, 2001
Then look at Halflife and tell me multiplayer isn't important....either make it for the quick buck (OFP), or with a vision...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I got HL for it's great SP game, not for it's MP.  I never played Half Life MP, I've played the two addons (Op Force and Blue Shift), but never the deathmatch MP.  It never intrested me anyway, cause i hate these "run and gun and jump and strafe and cheaters" FPS anyway.  And by the way, you mention "a quick buck", have you played Blue Shift?  It has "Quick Buck" written all over it.

-=Die Alive=-

[Dawdler]

"I'm disapointed personally -but ever since I started playing the Ghost Recon demo where I can support 6 people without lag on my DSL"

Actually, yesterday I played with 8 other people (some DM at houdan) with no serious lag whatsoever on a DSL host...
I was quite amazed myself. There was little lag, but hardly noticable (some trees fell two times, lag of 1 sec).
1.3 is definetly better than previous version, now the only matter comes to expanding that...
When one can have 25-30 people on a dedicated server with no (no big at least) lag Im happy. It is as someone said, why create a large scale war simulation with MP when all one can do in MP is to play small scale troop combat simulation...

[RAQ]

I say "JIP can be done".

Most arguements for "cannot" is that the deep scripting would prevent it.

Very well, then lets have some map with light scripting and JIP enabled. I'd say light scripting should be sufficient to support CTF, TDM missions.

Some state that JIP can coop dont mix - what kind of battle cant get reinforcements? Most likely deep scripted covert missions. But coop army vs army mission could support JIP.

With or without JIP, i sertainly did enjoy the campaign. And while I wait for JIP in flashpoint I enjoy the JIP in another game called infiltration.