View Full Version : To BIS... Radeon users would like...
TRUFORM support for player models... maybe trees and bushes too?
Many games are already supporting Truform via a patch and ATI says it's fairly easy to add Truform to a title.
(Edited by Desloc at 12:41 pm on Dec. 5, 2001)
OFP does not need truform. It looks perfect anway.
And if ATI SAY it is easy it doesnt mean it IS.
It might for example conflict with the LOD type technology in OFP, I dont know.
I dont have a Radeon, so I dont care.
-EDIT-
Trees and bushes? They are mostly just flat polys with transparent texture on, truform wouldnt help much there
(Edited by Dawdler at 12:50 pm on Dec. 5, 2001)
OFP player models would look incredible Truformed... period.
But you don't have a ATI card, so why should you care, right? If you owned a Radeon, or if you'd seen screens of Truform in action you may be singing a different tune.
(Edited by Desloc at 1:00 pm on Dec. 5, 2001)
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Many games are already supporting Truform via a patch and ATI says it's fairly easy to add Truform to a title.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I will check how difficuult it is to enable it. If it is VERY EASY, we might consider adding it.
Note: As far as I know, Truform is only supported by new Radeon 8500, not by normal Radeon cards.
Espectro
Dec 5 2001, 10:28
Could u plz add w-buffer too then (for us gf-2 mx userser) http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif?
I thought the answer to the question " Radeon users would like......
and the answer is....
A GF3 like they shoulda got in the first place!...(good luck with radeon drivers,the crappiest driver support known to mankind)
Radeon D3D drivers seem to work fine; it's the OpenGL drivers that crash many games I've tried to run on them (e.g. the Return to Wolfenstein demo crashes immediately on starting a game).
Gorgi Knootewoot
Dec 5 2001, 14:57
well whoopeef**kin'doo
My computer crashed a lot of times since i bought a new motherboard so i could enjoy my thunderbird 1,4 gH processor. I had 384 MB memory. I couldn't play any game in D3D or it would crash in a minute. I had to play all my games in openGL. Then i read in a forum that the new motherboard didn't support old memory. I had to ditch a 64 MB PC100, and a 64 MB PC133. I understand why i had to get rid of the PC100, but also a PC133??. But now it works and i have 256 MB. I am happy and no more crashes. I have GForce 2 GTS and will buy soon GForce 3. Radeon suckiesuckie it does as a friend of mine has it and i wipe my ass with his videocard. GF3 is much better and OFP should only support GF3 functions and make the game look really crappy for Radeon users. Like something as this
if user = Radeon user
then resolution = 160 * 100
color = CGA, monochrome
eat = sjit
print "Radeon user, u must die"
@echo off
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Gorgi Knootewoot on 5:57 pm on Dec. 5, 2001
well whoopeef**kin'doo
My computer crashed a lot of times since i bought a new motherboard so i could enjoy my thunderbird 1,4 gH processor. I had 384 MB memory. I couldn't play any game in D3D or it would crash in a minute. I had to play all my games in openGL. Then i read in a forum that the new motherboard didn't support old memory. I had to ditch a 64 MB PC100, and a 64 MB PC133. I understand why i had to get rid of the PC100, but also a PC133??. But now it works and i have 256 MB. I am happy and no more crashes. I have GForce 2 GTS and will buy soon GForce 3. Radeon suckiesuckie it does as a friend of mine has it and i wipe my ass with his videocard. GF3 is much better and OFP should only support GF3 functions and make the game look really crappy for Radeon users. Like something as this
if user = Radeon user
then resolution = 160 * 100
color = CGA, monochrome
eat = sjit
print "Radeon user, u must die"
@echo off
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Why don't you say what you REALLY feel? http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I don't think anyone denies that the GF3 is a better card than the original Radeons, as it should be given it's about twice the price! However, the Radeon-8500 is comparable to a GF3 and the original Radeons with up-to-date drivers are nowhere near as bad as many people make out... except in OpenGL, where even a game as simple as Tuxracer crashes their driver (OpenGL Half-Life, on the other hand, seems to run fine).
RN Malboeuf
Dec 5 2001, 17:42
I've had ATI Radeons for nearly two years, it was was when the 1st SDR version came out that ppl had problems
I've sold hundreds of the newer ones, not one of my users had any problems, I've sold about 2 Geforces
ATI Crap drivers are a thing of the past, and now a days GeF and ATI are neck in neck with Driver problems, this Board here even shows that there are just as many problems with both cards
there is not 1 GeF2 that can beat a Radeon 32meg DDR (same genteration) if you think it can try again, there is not one Gef2 that can run full res and detail at 1600x1200x32 bit color and not have frame lag, this Radeon has none! I have one
the Radeon 8500 is faster then the GeF3 (same Generation)
Speed = ATI
Cost = ATI
Driver Suport = GeF/ATI
winner ATI
(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 2:44 pm on Dec. 5, 2001)
Dogzero1
Dec 5 2001, 19:51
Georgie Knootewoot............very,very junior member.! http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
The speed hit is minimum as there are different amounts of Truform that can be applied... like a LOD slider. ***All Radeon cards can support Truform in software via drivers. The 8500 does it in hardware.
It's funny how so many Nvidia users get their knickers in a knot over ATI's tech. ***
(Edited by Desloc at 11:12 pm on Dec. 5, 2001)
Homer Simpson
Dec 5 2001, 21:47
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Desloc on 11:07 pm on Dec. 5, 2001
It's funny how so many Nvidia users get their knickers in a knot over ATI's tech. ***
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If I'd spent nearly twice the price for a slower card I'd be pissed too! http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
After seeing the difference TruForm gives I'd love to see it applied to OFP characters http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
The 8500 is a great card. I didn't buy it because of the awful driver support in the past. You can sell me a super-fast card for cheap, but if the driver sucks, the card might as well be a paperweight.
Nvidia has a wonderful reputation for drivers. Not only do they fix problems as they come up, their driver releases get BETTER with every version. If ATI changes their attitude about the drivers, I would switch.
It does seem like they are pulling wool over customer's eyes with their "anti-aliasing" (smoothvision) though. Check this out and decide for yourself:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1562
obi
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from RN Malboeuf on 1:42 pm on Dec. 5, 2001
I've had ATI Radeons for nearly two years, it was was when the 1st SDR version came out that ppl had problems
I've sold hundreds of the newer ones, not one of my users had any problems, I've sold about 2 Geforces
ATI Crap drivers are a thing of the past, and now a days GeF and ATI are neck in neck with Driver problems, this Board here even shows that there are just as many problems with both cards
there is not 1 GeF2 that can beat a Radeon 32meg DDR (same genteration) if you think it can try again, there is not one Gef2 that can run full res and detail at 1600x1200x32 bit color and not have frame lag, this Radeon has none! I have one
the Radeon 8500 is faster then the GeF3 (same Generation)
Speed = ATI
Cost = ATI
Driver Suport = GeF/ATI
winner ATI
(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 2:44 pm on Dec. 5, 2001)
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I beg to differ, my Elsa GF2 Ultra will rip a new asshol for a 32meg Radeon.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from WisdoM on 1:20 am on Dec. 6, 2001
I beg to differ, my Elsa GF2 Ultra will rip a new asshol for a 32meg Radeon.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I don't think that's fair though. You'd need to compare to a Radeon 64MB DDR card. If you do that, then the Radeon actually betters the gf2 ultra in most tests. The best you can say is that they are neck and neck.
If you overclock the gf2 ultra, then no doubt it will beat it.
Mister Frag
Dec 5 2001, 22:45
Guys, it doesn't really matter what video card you have, it is going to be a second-string player in a few months anyway. No exceptions.
So don't bother getting into a mine-is-bigger-than-yours contest, someone else is going to come along soon and put you in your place.
Hasharajima
Dec 5 2001, 22:46
ATi in short SUCK, if you enable their so called highly advanced SMOOTHVISION to 4X you are forced to play at a crappy resolution of 1280X something( i forgot) and if you dun follow it, the game crash so bad that you have to reboot. Go to www.sharkyextreme.com to read their review. So what Truform? In a fast actioned game I am not going to sit there and look at the NEW ROUNDED graphics and BTW, alot of game got messed up by truform. Image having bloated TANKS, wohahaha!
The Geforce 3 Ti 200 is the BEST CARD now, it is cheap and OC it you get a free Ti500 performance. All Ti200 card can easily OC to 240Mhz core with the stock cooling. Stay away from ATi, their driver still suck.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Mister Frag on 1:45 am on Dec. 6, 2001
Guys, it doesn't really matter what video card you have, it is going to be a second-string player in a few months anyway. No exceptions.
So don't bother getting into a mine-is-bigger-than-yours contest, someone else is going to come along soon and put you in your place.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hey Mr. Frag - you sould like a much older person... http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Seriously, though, most people DONT change their video cards every year, so you'd want to get one that will be sustainable. For example, I pity the folks who shelled out good money for the Voodoo5s. They would definitely have been better off going with nvidia at that time. It's the same situation with ATI. They are good cards, but will the company support it? Maybe, maybe not. That's what this discussion is about.
RN Malboeuf
Dec 5 2001, 23:30
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Wissdom
I beg to differ, my Elsa GF2 Ultra will rip a new asshol for a 32meg Radeon.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
whats the highest Res you can run OFP with out Frame lag?
this Card can handle 1600x1200 32 bit full OFP res at 48 FPS
I know for a fact that no GeF2 can even run that http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Gef3 can but none of the Gef2
at 1024x768x32 I'm at 100 FPS
(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 8:31 pm on Dec. 5, 2001)
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from OBiJuan on 12:57 am on Dec. 6, 2001
Nvidia has a wonderful reputation for drivers. ***Not only do they fix problems as they come up, their driver releases get BETTER with every version.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That must be why the TNT card I used to have got more buggy with every new driver I installed 8-(.
Mister Frag
Dec 6 2001, 00:15
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from OBiJuan on 8:53 am on Dec. 6, 2001
<Snip>
Seriously, though, most people DONT change their video cards every year, so you'd want to get one that will be sustainable. ***For example, I pity the folks who shelled out good money for the Voodoo5s. ***They would definitely have been better off going with nvidia at that time. ***It's the same situation with ATI. ***They are good cards, but will the company support it? ***Maybe, maybe not. ***That's what this discussion is about.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I agree, I would not get a video card that has no future. Anyone who has an AGP slot in their system and gets a GeForce2 MX-series card isn't getting the whole picture, for example.
But at the same time, getting your panties in a bunch arguing over new features in the newest Brand X video card that aren't even supported yet by 99% of the games out there seems pretty pointless...
I don't care which cards are faster, which drivers are better or whatever you guys are talking about. Seems everyone wants to argue for no good reason.
Ill just cast my vote for a truform patch for OFP. That would be great. It would jsut be one example of BIS showing that it is commited to adding new features and enhancements for the community, and make me continue to recommend my friends to buy the game (so we can play together!)
If there isn't truform in upcoming games like CMR3 and OFP2 though, I would be sad.
RedRogue
Dec 6 2001, 02:46
Sure enable it if possible,
Just NO NEW BUGS!
---- How come that sounds familiar
I didn't mean to upset all those NVidia user without Truform. It's a great tech, and it's easy for delevopers to implement. Smoother models result in more realism... period.
Maybe reading this will help Nvidia users ease their pain... http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
http://www.theinquirer.net/05120104.htm
Ijustwannaknow
Dec 6 2001, 03:44
actually Nvidia had a more advanced type of trueform called "HOS" High Order of surface on geforce 3 series graphics cards. It was disabled because games using Atis trueform would make the GEFORCE 3 HOS LAG causing unacceptable fps loss.
With nvidias hos It's also a two edged sword. Developers need to remodel the character – which means hard work, time and money. Characters would be easier to render and would have less polygons since the Nvidia implementation uses a feature called adaptive tessellation.
Truform, which are really N patches, just need a few lines of code and a few hours of work, to make a game look better, so my friends from Croteam, the developers of Serious Sam, tell me.
(Edited by Ijustwannaknow at 6:45 am on Dec. 6, 2001)
Gorgi Knootewoot
Dec 6 2001, 06:02
Yeah, a friend of mine has a Radeon 8500, and a other has the GForce 3 titanium thing and it is much faster.
-EVEN IN 1600*1200*32-
So im convinced that the GF3 is better that the Radeon. And I'm going to buy it next week................................
Gorgi "Super Junior Member" Knootewoot
Mister Frag
Dec 6 2001, 07:00
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Carl on 4:40 pm on Dec. 6, 2001
err wahts Trueform?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Try this article on Anandtech:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1476&p=1
Gorgi Knootewoot
Dec 6 2001, 07:05
i dunno
By the way,
RETURN TO CASTLE WOLFENSTEIN is too short. I finished the game on HARD in a 6.5 hours. The game is great but now all i can do is play online. But i rather play OFP online so now it sits there on a shelf and i will probably never look at it again.
BEST SINGLE PLAYER GAME --> Deus Ex
BEST MULTI PLAYER GAME --> OFP
Gorgi
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from RN Malboeuf on 8:42 pm on Dec. 5, 2001
the Radeon 8500 is faster then the GeF3 (same Generation)
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The GF3 was released like 6 months before the radeon8500, get your facts straight.
That says nothing about which generation of chip they're in. Both are DX8 chips (though the Radeon is a little more sophisticated than the GF3) just as both the GF2 and original Radeon were DX7 chips.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Ijustwannaknow on 6:44 am on Dec. 6, 2001
With nvidias hos It's also a two edged sword. Developers need to remodel the character – which means hard work, time and money. Characters would be easier to render and would have less polygons since the Nvidia implementation uses a feature called adaptive tessellation.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
And they'd need other, more detailed, models to run on non-GF3 boards or people would be continually complaining about the low-res models. Why would developers choose to produce an extra set of models which only work with one manufacturer's graphics cards? ATI clearly made the right choice here, even if their solution may be technically inferior; doesn't matter if you have the best hardware in the world if it takes a lot more effort for developers to program for it.
RN Malboeuf
Dec 6 2001, 14:30
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from ALDEGA
The GF3 was released like 6 months before the radeon8500, get your facts straight.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Facts? they are the Same Generation of Card, look up the word Generation in the dictionary plz, and he's corect in saying that these cards are based on the same DirectX which means even more that they are the same generation card, theres your FACTS lol
(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 11:34 am on Dec. 6, 2001)
lol , Ok , If radeon 8500 is such a great card why do they need to use pictures of chicks to sell them to gullible young men ?? Ever seen an Nvidia advert with some chick?? ***whats up with that?? How is she gonna help my gaming experience........... In time to come we will see which one comes thru on the driver support and my money is on Nvidia............tried ,true and tested. *** nuff said
DX does NOT define the generation....
I might as well start about OpenGL and Glide (for 3dfx chips) for that matter
And if you really want to base it on DX...
GF3-> DX8
R8500->DX8.1 (which has some ATI specific functions)
anyway, they were released 6 months away from each other, which is A LOT in the IT sector. If they were released within a month, then yes, you might compare them directly, but not when they're released 6 months away from each other, period.
The introduction of GPU/T&L is what could be considered a new generation IMO.
RN Malboeuf
Dec 6 2001, 17:03
No Sorry the GF3 does use new 8.1 Features making it fall into that generation
DirectX 8.1 was designed with these two next generation cards in mind dont forget, I can't use allot of new features in DirectX 8.1 with my Radeon 32 meg DDR, as is the case with all the GeF2 and other Radeons
>>>>>If radeon 8500 is such a great card why do they need to use pictures of chicks
and this is bad how? http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif nothing wrong with snazzing up the image, every one does it now and then even GeF, I've seen more GeF Magizine Adds then ATI in the last two years, ATI is just catching up.
besides I bet less then 10% of online gamers are females (seems like 1% though, we have what 2 women here?), face it women have lives and the mall.
We have Games and our Vehicles
So when ATI brought a cute chickie to their ad campaigne I did't complain http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
JustinCase
Dec 6 2001, 19:35
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Cpt Gamer FtK on 7:09 pm on Dec. 6, 2001
lol , Ok , If radeon 8500 is such a great card why do they need to use pictures of chicks to sell them to gullible young men ?? Ever seen an Nvidia advert with some chick?? ***[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Maybe because nVidia doesn't make/sell graphics cards?
Anywy...it doesn't matter, this whole discussion can keep on continuing. The fact is: competition is good for us consumers. So as far as I'm concerned, I hope none of us is ever completely right about nvidia or ati being better than one or the other. If so competition would die and it would take ages to get newer drivers or cards.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Cpt Gamer FtK on 7:09 pm on Dec. 6, 2001
lol , Ok , If radeon 8500 is such a great card why do they need to use pictures of chicks to sell them to gullible young men ?? Ever seen an Nvidia advert with some chick?? ***whats up with that?? [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
ATI is a Canadian company... you obviously haven't seen our beatuiful ladies up here in Canada? http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from RN Malboeuf on 7:30 pm on Dec. 5, 2001
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Wissdom
I beg to differ, my Elsa GF2 Ultra will rip a new asshol for a 32meg Radeon.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
whats the highest Res you can run OFP with out Frame lag?
this Card can handle 1600x1200 32 bit full OFP res at 48 FPS
I know for a fact that no GeF2 can even run that http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Gef3 can but none of the Gef2
at 1024x768x32 I'm at 100 FPS
(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 8:31 pm on Dec. 5, 2001)
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
well if I could get fraps to work I'd tell yah, I dont have a monitor that supports 1600X1200 yet, I had to send back some parts and my new rig is npot done http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif But the GF2 Ultra is still one of teh best cards out there barrnone, it still amazes me though how people are bickering over videocards, neither card is better really, if you want to save money oyu should go with Radeon, but for the extra cash you pay the Ti500 is proven to be faster, you cant dispute that.
And all of you ATi fanboys shoudl read this http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.hardocp.com/reviews/vidcards/ati/8500/quack/
Old news... been fixed with newest drivers. It doesn't represent their hardware in any way or form.
GF Ti500 - great card, very fast, if not the fastest card on the market. It's based on one year old tech and is only DX8 compatible. Most expensive card you can buy.
Radeon 8500- great card, very fast. New tech based on DX 8.1. Drivers are fair(XP) to good(98) and will only get better. This card has only been out for a month and is cheaper than the competition's flagship product.
Each card has pluses and minuses, arguing which is better is sort of fultile.
So GF2/3 users should relax, you have a very good card. And don't worry, if OFP adds Truform, we'll post the screenies for ya http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Desloc on 5:24 pm on Dec. 6, 2001
Old news... been fixed with newest drivers. It doesn't represent their hardware in any way or form.
GF Ti500 - great card, very fast, if not the fastest card on the market. It's based on one year old tech and is only DX8 compatible. Most expensive card you can buy.
Radeon 8500- great card, very fast. New tech based on DX 8.1. Drivers are fair(XP) to good(98) and will only get better. This card has only been out for a month and is cheaper than the competition's flagship product.
Each card has pluses and minuses, arguing which is better is sort of fultile.
So GF2/3 users should relax, you have a very good card. And don't worry, if OFP adds Truform, we'll post the screenies for ya http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
you're incorrect that GF3 Ti500 doesnt support DX8.1 http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and yes arguing which is better is certainly futile, its a matter fo opiion, apples and oranges people apples and oranges.
Sorry, I was refering to DX 8.1 pixel shaders...
http://www.nvnews.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=002164
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1504&p=3
Yes, the GF3 Ti500 is DX8.1 compliant.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from WisdoM on 12:28 am on Dec. 7, 2001
you're incorrect that GF3 Ti500 doesnt support DX8.1 http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The GF3 does not have support the DX8.1 pixel shaders that the Radeon 8500 supports, and that's by far the greatest change between the two DX versions. Even the Voodoo-2 "supports" DX8.1, in that it can run DX8.1 games provided they have fallbacks to handle such a brain-dead chip, but it's certainly not a DX8.1 chip because it can't run any pixel shaders or vertex shaders, let alone the DX8.1 pixel shaders.
That said, I stand by what I said earlier, that there's so little difference between DX8.1 and DX8 (when compared to the difference between DX8 and DX7, or DX7 and DX6), that the GF3 and Radeon 8500 can be considered to be from the same generation of chips.
Ijustwannaknow
Dec 7 2001, 02:41
What chick?
I bought the ati 8500 because its bad ass.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Desloc on 5:24 pm on Dec. 6, 2001
Old news... been fixed with newest drivers. It doesn't represent their hardware in any way or form.
GF Ti500 - great card, very fast, if not the fastest card on the market. It's based on one year old tech and is only DX8 compatible. Most expensive card you can buy.
Radeon 8500- great card, very fast. New tech based on DX 8.1. Drivers are fair(XP) to good(98) and will only get better. This card has only been out for a month and is cheaper than the competition's flagship product.
Each card has pluses and minuses, arguing which is better is sort of fultile.
So GF2/3 users should relax, you have a very good card. And don't worry, if OFP adds Truform, we'll post the screenies for ya http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I've seen screenies from Cheater-Strike, and IMHO, it looks like s**t http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Hasharajima
Dec 7 2001, 03:18
Agree, it looks s**t with the guns all bloated and the filters in the Radeon is all messed up, hard to explain in words but you must see it for yourself in the review here: <a href="http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2001q4/vidcards/index.x?pg=1
and" target="_blank">http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2001q4/vidcards/index.x?pg=1
and</a> the TOTALLY MESSED UP SMOOTHVISION:
www.sharkyextreme.com Radeon Review.
In summary, the Ti200 is the best and Radeon 8500 is another messed up silicon chip from ATidiots.
Many Radeon users would argue otherwise, and that's ATI's first implementation of SmoothVision.
As for CS... that's Valves fault for adding Truform to it's weapon models, not ATI's. The hostage and scientist models in CS look absolutely awesome with Truform. Developers decide what models get Truform and what models do not.
If you never saw a gun using Truform, which is an incorrect use of the technology, you'd also be impressed.
I'm contimplating buying one, I have an itch to run my own benchies http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Either card you buy is a good choice. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
OFFascist
Dec 8 2001, 16:53
OFP looks pretty d*amn good now, I can only imagine how much better it would look if it had Truform support.
Angry Radish
Dec 22 2001, 21:39
The only reason I took out my 64m GForce3 DDR, was to put in an ATI All-in-wonder 8500dv.
While I liked the graphics on the GF3 better, I wanted the DV capture ability, and the TV tuner, rf remote, etc.. so there was a tradeoff involved...
With the new drivers, I haven't seen too many diffs in speed now in OFP at 1280 res.
Just my 2c...
Whats the problem with yer Radeons in OpenGL?
I haven't had a single problem in OpenGL using ATI Radeon 64mb.
128x Anisotrophy looks beautiful.
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