Vbs newsrelease

[RalphWiggum]

http://www.virtualbattlefieldsystems.com/press.html

Quote[/b] ]U.S. Marine Corps Installs VBS1™ Worldwide


Orlando, FL. April 1, 2003 – Coalescent Technologies Corporation announced that the Virtual Battlefield System (VBS1™) has been installed at all the United States Marine Corps’ simulation labs, in the continental United States and overseas. Under an exclusive contract with Bohemia Interactive Studio (BIS), the original developer of Operation Flashpoint with license to the BIS Flashpoint engine, Coalescent Technologies was co-developer and is the worldwide distributor of VBS1™. Hosted at each U.S. Marine Corps simulation lab, VBS1™ allows individual Marines to participate in simulated small unit tactical operations. This recent implementation was a cooperative effort between the United States Navy, PMS-430, U.S. Marine Corps Training and Education Command (TECOM) and Coalescent Technologies. The U.S. Marine Corps laboratories are located at: Quantico, VA; Camp Lejeune, NC; Camp Pendleton, CA; Twenty-nine Palms, CA; Kanehoe Bay, HI; and Okinawa, Japan. In addition to its use in the simulation labs, VBS1™ has been incorporated into the Program of Instruction (POI) for the Squad Leader’s course at the Marine Corps School of Infantry (SOI) East and West.

VBS1™ is a fully interactive, three-dimensional training application with photo-realistic terrain, user-definable mission scenarios, specialized response tools and tactics, and variable environmental conditions that enhance the team training experience. After-action review support assists the instructional manager in assessing the team’s performance and in highlighting areas of improvement. VBS1™ may be used to teach doctrine, tactics, techniques, critical decision-making skills, and procedures of squad and platoon offensive, defensive, and patrolling operations. VBS1™ is not intended for entertainment purposes and is currently available only to federal, state, and local government agencies for military, law enforcement, and homeland first responder training.

Coalescent Technologies Corporation is a professional engineering and integration firm that delivers innovative engineering products and services to the Department of Defense, federal agencies, first responders, and commercial clients. Established in 1995, Coalescent is privately owned and operated with headquarters in Orlando, Florida.

Bohemia Interactive Studio is a renowned independent game development studio based in Prague, Czech Republic. Bohemia’s primary focus is on the development of state-of-the-art computer entertainment software and research of advanced real-time 3D graphics, artificial intelligence, and physical simulation technologies for real-time interactive environments. Bohemia Interactive Studio is the original developer of the award winning Codemasters® gaming software, Operation Flashpoint™.

[bn880]

Why don't you use the already existing VBS thread. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

Actually, I remember they installed it over a month ago, but I don't remember where I read that. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rock.gif

Moving

[RalphWiggum]

Why don't you use the already existing VBS thread.  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
i already searched under VBS on this section http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif dare question my authority? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/mad_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

hopefully this thread can stay on topic unlike the old one that ended up in locking due to excessive spamming


Quote[/b] ]Actually, I remember they installed it over a month ago, but I don't remember where I read that. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rock.gif

Moving
hmm...maybe it was the same press release that i just posted here? I realized that the release was dated April 1st.

[Heatseeker]

Recomended system requirements for VBS1 are not so high:
-1.7 P4 (or better)
-512 ram
-gf4 64 megs.
what i always wondered about it(VBS1), is if its possible to simulate close quarters combat situations inside buildings like hostage rescue situations and room clearing tactics, i mean we all know the OPF engine is very limited in that area.
Thanx for the link, interesting reading there http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif .

[e.t.]

Quote[/b] ]The U.S. Marine Corps laboratories are located at: Quantico, VA; Camp Lejeune, NC; Camp Pendleton, CA; Twenty-nine Palms, CA; Kanehoe Bay, HI; and Okinawa, Japan.

WOOHOO!!! I'll be in 29 Palms around the end of this year for MOS schooling. Can't wait to see it and try it out myself!

[RalphWiggum]

have fun, and don't drool on keyboards. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

AFAIK, the settings were considered to be quite high when OFP CWC came out. from a few screenies I saw, I assume that the town placement is not that heavy, so it's playable.
http://www.virtualbattlefieldsystems.com/screenshots/Maps/vbs1_1018s.jpg

but then again, the buildings are habitable so who knows?

[Heatseeker]

Quote[/b] ]The U.S. Marine Corps laboratories are located at: Quantico, VA; Camp Lejeune, NC; Camp Pendleton, CA; Twenty-nine Palms, CA; Kanehoe Bay, HI; and Okinawa, Japan.

WOOHOO!!! I'll be in 29 Palms around the end of this year for MOS schooling.  Can't wait to see it and try it out myself!
How bout sharing some info with us then, i dont think VBS1 is considered top secret/classified stuff, would be nice to hear about its interface, features and cool stuff http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif .

edit: perhaps VBS1 doesnt render Huge detailed islands, maybe they just recreate small real world locations for training purposes, i assume this because on Ralphs picture there really isnt much stuff around the town http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif .

[edc]

Yeah, maybe slip a few of the installation disks in your pocket... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

[NZXSHADOWS]

VBS+Truth=UBS Unrealistic Battlefield Sim.
I dont see how using something to Simulator war tactics or what ever when your sitting on your ass.I mean theres so much that VBS can not do that Real people Can do.Maybe VBS would be good for a Vehicle sim but thats about it.

[WhoCares]

A simulator is a complement to the real-life stuff, not a replacement. Furthermore, with a replay option, you can make a far more detailed mission debriefing. And it is easy to run the same mission again, to implement the results of the debriefing. Not to mention the fun factor - I can more imagine a squad to play a round on the simulator then to get the squad to play in the woods in their spare time...

[NZXSHADOWS]

bla,What ever

[e.t.]

Quote[/b] ]I dont see how using something to Simulator war tactics or what ever when your sitting on your ass.

Well i believe that VBS1 is used for mental and decision making training in simulated battlefield environments. The Corps has many other real-life training techniques.

[[IEF] Mp]

VBS1 Hardware Requirements

Recommended System

Windows 95, 98, ME, 2000, or XP
DirectX 8
1.7 GHz Pentium 4 (or better)
512 MB RAM
NVidia GeForce 4 video card with 64 MB Ram
16-Bit Direct Sound Compliant Sound Card
24x CD-ROM Drive
700 MB Hard Drive space

Minimum System

Windows 95, 98, ME, 2000, or XP
DirectX 8
1.0 GHz Pentium III
256 MB RAM
NVidia GeForce 2 video card with 32 MB RAM
16-Bit Direct Sound Compliant Sound Card
8x CD-ROM Drive
700 MB Hard Drive space

[Postduifje]

It sure looks like they're having fun http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

http://www.virtualbattlefieldsystems.com/images/home02.jpg

[NZXSHADOWS]

Hell,We all can look like where having fun.I have 5 Rigs set up Just for Flashpoint.And thats becuase I dont have any more room for any more.

[[IEF] Mp]

http://www.virtualbattlefieldsystems.com/images/home06.jpg

Weapon Cache lol

[philcommando]

never did cared about vbs cos i've got ofp1, good enough for me.

Reply to NXshadows:-

In real life military training for operations, there is something called the rehearsal. It's a mock up of an area of operation, for eg, terrain, buildings, etc to simulate as close as possible to the real mission as possible. This is to help the soldiers memorise their individual roles in a forthcomming mission and is rehearsed till they can do it with eyes closed. The proffesional army doesnt just pick up a rifle and start a war.

However, there is no way on earth that one can duplicate an entire town or area of operation exactly on another location unless you're from hollywood.

With the advent of 3d simulators, it is now possible to recreate, for eg, the city of basra, iraq exactly and have the soldiers memorise each and every corner of the streets, the rv points, the infil and exfil points, location of targets, intel info on enemy dispositions,etc, things that are required for the mission. When shit hits the fan in the real thing, these troops will know better their area of ops and make the necessary decisions to advance or retreat or whatever their S.O.P is.

Of course, there are still field trainning to perform, PT, ranges for other skills to upkeep. OFP is definately the best thing that came along for real mission planners.

[RalphWiggum]

Along the line of what philcommando said, i guess one advantage is that in OFP/VBS, you can always make new scenarios, while in real life training, you are limited in that aspect.

[SpeedyDonkey]

Maybe it's just me but the guy to the left (in civilian clothing) sure looks like colin powell ?  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

http://www.virtualbattlefieldsystems.com/images/home02.jpg

[ale2999]

lol who is rolling in the doe?

[NZXSHADOWS]

Its just you.Powel is bigger than that guy.

[waffendennis]

Lol wy dont we support those guys with some real addons?

Look here:
http://www.virtualbattlefieldsystems.com/images/home02.jpg

maybe we can make a deal with them we give them our real M16's and other realistic anddons and they give us some VBS1 addons fair enough for me right http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[edc]

I'm sure the weapons in their are better than ours.

[waffendennis]

Quote[/b] ]Posted on June 23 2003,10:34
I'm sure the weapons in their are better than ours.

Well if i am not wrong: Suchey Marines haves a better looking m16 right? and a better weapon Optic right?

[philcommando]

Just something for you folks to chew on regarding addons.

VBS's addons are just a few standard types for demo purposes and will not surpass those that were created by the community. The actual required customized addons are created by the agencies who buy VBS themselves within their departments.

Probably hidden among the protected harddrives of worlddwide defense departments/ministries are high quality addons of military equipment and buildings, both local and enemy types for their trainning and war-gaming.

[The Frenchman]

I'm sure the weapons in their are better than ours.
Maybe but not the optics. Look at the one computer. BIS black sights instead of suchey's M16 sights.

[RalphWiggum]

It is my personal guess that some of addons for VBS became available for us as form of 1.30 patch(XMS, Steyr, Laser guider, hummer)

[waffendennis]

Well Ralph i think that to and maybe bis is going to release more? ( if you look at the Flashpoint1985.com site and then the addons you see only the WW1 plane so maybe bis gives us more http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif )

[[TU]$33ker]

a lot of the stuff displayed at the IL homepage looks like the stuff displayed at the VBS1 homepage. maybe we'll get some of the cool VBS1 stuff in IL when it comes out after the release of OFP2? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[bn880]

Maybe it's just me but the guy to the left (in civilian clothing) sure looks like colin powell ? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

http://www.virtualbattlefieldsystems.com/images/home02.jpg
Yeah, this must be the place where the mobile Bio/Chem lab evidence came from, is that the satellite image of buildings and cars we saw on TV? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[Heatseeker]

I think they can choose what they want in VBS1, they just order some copies and say:
"oh..., and we could use some marine soldiers, vehicals, opfor dudes and we will mail you the prints for the buildings we want k?".
And VBS1 ppl say:
"Sure dude, but it will cost you extra, ill send you your "stuff" in 6 months ok?"
And the military dude replies:
"eh, money is no prob m8, did you know how much tax money we spend in Americas Army..."
And we get free addons from the great talented OPF comunity, i wonder if some cheap countrys use "unoficial" addons in their VBS1 instalation http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif .

[Koolkid101]

Really? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rock.gif

[NZXSHADOWS]

Cheap countries probly use regular flashpoint for there Battle sim.And on the side note has any of you seen the VBS1 Demonstration video.

[bn880]

And we get free addons from the great talented OPF comunity,
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif Surely you are not suggesting that the dedication OFP addon makers have for their hobby is in turn used to train some part of the military without due credit given. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif Wonder how much some addon makers would like it to know their addons were used to train a part of the military which was or is involved in armed conflicts. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

Hmmm http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rock.gif

[Heatseeker]

 Surely you are not suggesting that the dedication OFP addon makers have for their hobby is in turn used to train some part of the military without due credit given.   http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif  Wonder how much some addon makers would like it to know their addons were used to train a part of the military which was or is involved in armed conflicts.  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif  

Hmmm  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rock.gif
...terrorist evil man returns to secret terrorist base!"
terrorist leader: "Have jo got it?"
terrorist evil man: yes, i have purchased thie GOTY!"
Other terrorists: OOhhhh...
terrorist evil man: ..."and it comes with resistance too!"
terrorist leader: "lets dowload some addons and find out how the western pigs are planning to rule our world!"
all the terrorists: MuHahahhaha!

My reply actually is... ofcourse not http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif , but many addons are really high quality and some even try to replicate the real thing in handling, performance, etc. I think we have our own version of VBS1 after all http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif .

[SpeedyDonkey]

Seriously, imo he still really looks like powell!

http://w1.182.telia.com/~u18218217/Screens/powell.jpg

[Kegetys]

Wonder how much some addon makers would like it to know their addons were used to train a part of the military which was or is involved in armed conflicts.
We'll know that they do when we'll see drills (http://koti.mbnet.fi/kegetys/flashpoint/screenshots/drill2.jpg) used in some conflict. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[[TU]$33ker]

Wonder how much some addon makers would like it to know their addons were used to train a part of the military which was or is involved in armed conflicts.
We'll know that they do when we'll see drills (http://koti.mbnet.fi/kegetys/flashpoint/screenshots/drill2.jpg) used in some conflict.  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif
offtopic:
have you noticed that some of the new civilians and the police in Res are wearing jungle boots?? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

[bn880]

Wonder how much some addon makers would like it to know their addons were used to train a part of the military which was or is involved in armed conflicts.
We'll know that they do when we'll see drills (http://koti.mbnet.fi/kegetys/flashpoint/screenshots/drill2.jpg) used in some conflict. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[vitoal125]

I think they can choose what they want in VBS1, they just order some copies and say:
"oh..., and we could use some marine soldiers, vehicals, opfor dudes and we will mail you the prints for the buildings we want k?".
And VBS1 ppl say:
"Sure dude, but it will cost you extra, ill send you your "stuff" in 6 months ok?"
And the military dude replies:
"eh, money is no prob m8, did you know how much tax money we spend in Americas Army..."
And we get free addons from the great talented OPF comunity, i wonder if some cheap countrys use "unoficial" addons in their VBS1 instalation http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif .

Quote[/b] ]some marine soldiers how dare thee (draws sword in a three count movement) This NCO sword may have once been the sword of a civil war army officer, but now it has no association with soldiers! (starts to whistle the Marine's hymn as the blade falls upon his neck for the mistake of calling marines soldiers) the two terms hardly belong in the same sentance. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[Jinef]

If the marines lived on ships and trained exclusively for comabat in marine enviroments then ok, but they are used as a fast deploying expeditionary force which is highly capable in lots of enviroments and uses a large arrange of assets in a combined force approach. They are defined as soldiers.

I would call the Royal Marines soldiers as well. So would they.

[Totmacher]

http://www.virtualbattlefieldsystems.com/screenshots06.html

[RalphWiggum]

http://www.virtualbattlefieldsystems.com/screenshots/terroristattack/vbs1_6006s.jpg

nice fire scripts but VBS also suffers from OFP radio overflow feature http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[[TU]$33ker]

Hey do you see the buildings behind the plane? Compare them with this (http://ofp.gamezone.cz/index.php?showthis=2198).
Coalescent tech seems to have some damn good addons, but they also seem to use some from the OFP community! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[bn880]

I'm sure if they make a big profit they will be up front and share with the community. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif or not

[ale2999]

I dont think the buildings window colors look similar...., go to the site and look at the rest of the buildings and you'll see they look quite different. Man Coalescent is doing an outstanding job in the addon making! I wonder if bis is involved at all in the addon making. Do you guys think that bis will have to update vbs once ofp2 comes out?

[Evishion]

Posted for Gummi cause his posting permission was removed: "Speaking about user made addons in VBS1, Kegetys rpg7 is used in it, all versions... so, they can use all addons they want to?"

[Evishion]

Quote[/b] ]Do you guys think that bis will have to update vbs once ofp2 comes out?


well as I know its nOT for the public....that piss me off

[NZXSHADOWS]

dont think I wouldnt pay for a copy or copies of VBS1.Ive tried but with no reply.Hell with em if they dont want to make any money.I always thought that was why people went into buisness.But I guess they are just picky with there customers.Thats ok with me.I have no problem with that.

[Evishion]

Honestly I dont even know why peoples talk about it and etc...when its FUCKING DAMN NOT FOR PUBLIC...that PISS me OFFFFF alot..... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif
I mean...why post pics and new of it if noone is ever gonna get it.... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rock.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rock.gif Honestly I dont care a SHIT in it


sry for some words I used http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif
Just telling what I mean

[RalphWiggum]

to clarify a thing :

VBS is NOT available for the private sector.
-VBS was funded by USMC, meaning gov't of USA funded Coaslescence and BIS, and thus can impose restrictions on its availability. Even at VBS website, the eligibility for purchase only allows a gov't to purchase it, not individual groups that is not recognized as a gov't. So no matter how much we try, we won't get it. period.

[Evishion]

that is what i sayd......ITS NOT FOR PUBLIC...but still pp's talk about it and much etc.....dont understand why

[VXR]

that is what i sayd......ITS NOT FOR PUBLIC...but still pp's talk about it and much etc.....dont understand why
why should people not talk about it, offcourse people talk about something that looks very interesting and good.

[edc]

Quote[/b] ]VBS is NOT available for the private sector.
-VBS was funded by USMC, meaning gov't of USA funded Coaslescence and BIS, and thus can impose restrictions on its availability. Even at VBS website, the eligibility for purchase only allows a gov't to purchase it, not individual groups that is not recognized as a gov't. So no matter how much we try, we won't get it. period.

Well, we could revolt and or succeed and create our own country... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

But if we did that, we probably wouldn't have that good of relations with the US govt. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/sad_o.gif

[Nathanz]

http://www.virtualbattlefieldsystems.com/screenshots/terroristattack/vbs1_6003s.jpg

Airport Counter-Terrorist Training Scenario (http://www.virtualbattlefieldsystems.com/screenshots06.html)

[NZXSHADOWS]

VBS has some good shots there for Terroist attacks.I love it when civilians lay on the ground when stuff happens.Very realistic.Now I see why this is a good Sim tool.VBS=OFP2 dont be fooled.

[drewb99]

http://www.virtualbattlefieldsystems.com/screenshots/terroristattack/vbs1_6007s.jpg

I want that catering truck in the background http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[Nathanz]

http://www.virtualbattlefieldsystems.com/screenshots/terroristattack/vbs1_6007s.jpg

I want that catering truck in the background http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
Looks a bit wrecked http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[Scorpio]

Nice effects and scenes, but IMO the textures arn't that good... seeing these things up close.

[Koolkid101]

Still beats regular OPF without addons.

[Airwolf]

This is an addon though, rather an expansion i guess you could say for VBS.

[Heatseeker]

It doesnt look that great, i see it has a training tool, designed for a very diferent use rather than a regular game, i dont think they need state of the art grafix or textures for simulation training stuff. OPF2 will be 100 times better then that for us http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif .

[edc]

But I'm sure that the actualy gameplay(if you would call it that) in VBS1 is a lot more realistic than OFP2'll be.

[ale2999]

It doesnt look that great, i see it has a training tool, designed for a very diferent use rather than a regular game, i dont think they need state of the art grafix or textures for simulation training stuff. OPF2 will be 100 times better then that for us http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif .
I think is just plain wishful thinking http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[Heatseeker]

One think i always wondered bout VBS is the a.i. behaviour, i mean the way they behave in OPF seems very far from simulating r.l. stuff, running around zig zaggin, tanks that have sniper acuracy and kill you from the distance with one MG shot, the way the officer goes prone and then starts sending their subordinates to certain death one by one, running and seeing throu buildings, big list http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif ... it would be impossible to simulate a hostage situation that involves cqb with OPF, perhaps they have improved a.i. for VBS1 big time and will use it in OPF2 http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif , why cant a marine that likes OPF share some little info with us http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/sad_o.gif .

[NZXSHADOWS]

I would think the AI should run and take cover when seeing the enemy not just hit the ground a start shooting.Or maybe start shooting while running for cover.

[bn880]

I totally don't understand the fascination with VBS over OFP 1.91. What you guys need is to have someone from BIA to tell you the difference for us would not be that much. Someone should end the mysery. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

It reminds me of the stories told about America when I was back in Eastern Europe, which turned out to be 99% crap. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif Some things never change.

[NZXSHADOWS]

Well 1 thing that makes a difference is that I dont have it,

[302_Dragon]

Well I've used VBS1...actually I was using it today and to tell you the truth there is no difference at all. The interface is a little different but the gameplay and HUD setup is the exact same thing. The mission editor is the same as well, with a few small differences. I am currently trying to figure out if the addons can be transfered over to OFP....that would be sweet as hell.

[RalphWiggum]

I am currently trying to figure out if the addons can be transfered over to OFP....that would be sweet as hell.
misuse of federal property http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/mad_o.gif

[NZXSHADOWS]

Sweet as hell is right.

[302_Dragon]

It's not mis use of federal property...already looked into it. The government only owns the licence not the game. The VBS1 system is nothing more then OFP packaged in a different box.

[Hellfish6]

The license prevents members of the USMC from distributing VBS1. This means you're restricted from distributing it in whole or in part. Even if you extract a building or weapon model from VBS1 (or any of it's addons) and import it into OFP (or even attempt to import it - even if it's the exact same building or weapon model in OFP) you are in material breach of the license. I believe that this is grounds for an Article 15 minimum, though the actual legalities of it may be a bit different. Make no mistake, if any part of VBS1 is distributed, BIS and Coalescent will find out about it and the violator will be at the mercy of his chain of command.

I heartily suggest that you keep VBS1 to yourself and let the rest of us seethe with jealousy. "Always Faithful" also applies to software licenses.  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

Edited because Hooked on Phonics didn't work for me. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif

[NZXSHADOWS]

Well,Looks like it will all be a big secert.That way nobody gets mixed emotions.

[302_Dragon]

It's not a big secret...anyone can but the system. it's like taking a model from one game to incorperate into OFP...it's been done before. VBS1 is by no means confidential information...if it was then BIS and Coalescent couldn't advertise it on the internet "For Sale".

The only thing I want to do is see if the 3D models of the vehicles can be converted to OFP...not steal VBS1 and burn illegal copies..THAT would be illegal.

I am in no way even close to article 15. More studying of the UCMJ should be done before acusing me of anything.

[NZXSHADOWS]

Well if you think about it BIS would have change the format on the addons just abit if they were really worried about the addons being used in OFP.

This doesnt make any sense.

[Hellfish6]

It's not a matter of mixed emotions. Its a matter of legality. It is illegal for anyone except the US Marines or members of another authorized agency to have VBS1 in whole or in part.

Talking openly of importing files on the forum of the company that made that very license that you would be violating is not a smart thing to do and further discussion of it could result in consequences for those involved. Consider this a warning.

[RalphWiggum]

if it was then BIS and Coalescent couldn't advertise it on the internet "For Sale".
and did you read requirements for the sale?

http://www.virtualbattlefieldsystems.com/purchasing01.html

Quote[/b] ]Eligibility

The VBS1™ products are only sold to federal, state, and local government agencies for military, law enforcement, homeland defense, and first responder training. To help reduce administrative costs, we request that only qualified organizations contact us for purchases or additional information.



Quote[/b] ]Well,Looks like it will all be a big secert.That way nobody gets mixed emotions.
AXE made some VBS inspired stuffs. those are ok since they have no basis on VBS. however converting models from VBS, as explaind above my Hellfish6, violates license agreement.

[NZXSHADOWS]

i will take your advice.

[Hellfish6]

It's not a big secret...anyone can but the system. it's like taking a model from one game to incorperate into OFP...it's been done before. VBS1 is by no means confidential information...if it was then BIS and Coalescent couldn't advertise it on the internet "For Sale".

The only thing I want to do is see if the 3D models of the vehicles can be converted to OFP...not steal VBS1 and burn illegal copies..THAT would be illegal.

I am in no way even close to article 15. More studying of the UCMJ should be done before acusing me of anything.
Obviously I'm not getting through here. Not just anybody can buy VBS1. Believe me, I tried before I became a mod. You can only obtain VBS1 through a purchase order from the approved agency. So while it may be on sale on the net, it's not for sale to Joe Browser.

And maybe I wasn't clear when I said that distribution of VBS1 in whole or in part is a breach of license. Models are part of VBS1 and are thus subject to said license. It is just as illegal as burning copies of the entire program.

It is also tantamount to theft, even if it is not-for-profit. Intellectual property rights are held by BIS and CT and if they find you out, they can press charges. Last I heard, theft was still a punishable offense under UCMJ.

[302_Dragon]

ok First off you saying I'm going to do it, when all I asked is could it be done...see thats where all this came to be a problem...I asked one question and everyone jumped on the "lets hang him" ban wagon.

Now I am mainly asking this for a few reasons...one...If the VBS addons are convertable to OFP to see if it COULD be done

And secondly: If I can convert addons from VBS1 to OFP then I can convert OFP to VBS1...see where I'm going with this now http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

Oh and if you want to se a VBS1 addon in action just look at the OFP addons...they're the same thing. Actually Addons built by Hawk, DKM, Colonel Klink and other gifted Modders are 10 times better then the VBS addons.

[RalphWiggum]

to do so - see whether convertability stands or not - you'd have to actually do it to confirm it. and that's where you were heading to.

theoretically, i think it won't be hard, since 3d models are same and config is only difference. my personal opinion is that some of .130 patch units and OFPR addons were actually from VBS, but was used in OFPR.

[Hellfish6]

ok First off you saying I'm going to do it, when all I asked is could it be done...see thats where all this came to be a problem...I asked one question and everyone jumped on the "lets hang him" ban wagon.

Now I am mainly asking this for a few reasons...one...If the VBS addons are convertable to OFP to see if it COULD be done

And secondly: If I can convert addons from VBS1 to OFP then I can convert OFP to VBS1...see where I'm going with this now   http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

Oh and if you want to se a VBS1 addon in action just look at the OFP addons...they're the same thing. Actually Addons built by Hawk, DKM, Colonel Klink and other gifted Modders are 10 times better then the VBS addons.
Well you gave us the impression that you were going to try, hence our rather immediate reaction to it.

Out of curiosity, how is the Harrier in VBS1? Does it operate like Col. Klink's? And is there anything that we haven't seen in VBS1 that is really cool?

[Heatseeker]

So vbs1 is just OPF with diferent units? I wonder if the same old bugs are there too http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif ? Clipping probs, poor building interaction, etc? And A.i. behaviour, its problably the same too eh? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif .

[Harnu]

If per say, I ask my local Police department to buy a copy.  And once they figure out they don't have a clue how to use it, and I buy it from them.  Is that legal? Or can no civilian get it at all?

[Hellfish6]

Are you a mamber of that police force? No? Then you have the answer.

[Harnu]

Aww but I'm joining the Marines in two years, and the probably go into police work after that.

I want VBS now! WAAA!!! lol http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[302_Dragon]

Quote[/b] ]Out of curiosity, how is the Harrier in VBS1? Does it operate like Col. Klink's? And is there anything that we haven't seen in VBS1 that is really cool?

Well to be honest that is the main reason why I wanted to know if the addons could be converted....the VBS1 Harrier has two versions..hover and fixed flight. They don't have the VTOL ability...niether does the MV-22

[philcommando]

Instead of 'hanging' 302 dragon, i believe we as a community should thank and welcome him here as he can clear up the mystery of vbs for many of us who have clearly high expectations of it, being that dragon is a user of that programme and would offer much objective feedback of both ofp and vbs.

As to the convertability issue, no point in raising hue and cry. Anything and everything a man make can be 'unmade' if u get what i mean. Furthermore, govt agencies have the resources and manpower to convert or subvert it for their use and what makes one so sure they have not done it yet?

One main reason vbs is not for the average joe browser is that there are critical addons that would be dangerous if it falls on the wrong hands. In the anti-terrorist vbs pic, there is a pic of a passenger aircraft. I dont wanna say much but imagine if a bank robber team creates a 3d bank addon and place troops/police/guards there and rehearse on it. You can imagine the consequences. And sadly, if one is determine, one doesnt need ofp or vbs for rehearsals, the comp world is filled with 3d games. 3d games are like a hammer, just a tool. Its not the hammer that kills but the welder of the hammer. Fortunately for govt agencies, they now have vbs to counter the smart crook/animals.

[302_Dragon]

Thank you for sticking up for me philcommando. I just want to let you know that there isn't anything you can do with VBS1 that can't be done with OFP. The systems are the same, identical, in how they run how the program was written and so on. The only major differences is you need a USB key card to play the game...and it's just a game.

The USMC only uses it to improve battle field leadership, mainly because the realism level for battle isn't that good. Try getting a computer iliterate grunt on there and he may know how to take charge of a battle field but if he can't turn the damn computer on what good is he for the training evolution...see what I'm saying.

There are company's out there trying to develop a Virtual reality system to go with the VBS1 system...if this works then any grunt can get into the game without having to learn what button does what. Right now they are testing VR Goggles and a VR M16A2 (With needed buttons for game on gun grip) So far, from what I've heard, the testing is going well on these two items.

[bn880]

Yeah exactly, what I have been thinking about for a while (and part of the reason for asking for multiple controller support) is to create custom simulator controls for every vehicle that can be controlled in OFP.

So for a tank, you could possibly use a mock up of a real tank cabin (+ VR goggles or 3 monitors) with several controls wired through several USB chips, and connected bia a USB connection or two. I don't know, maybe I can work on something like this after graduation... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif Same with a chopper control, bike etc.

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus]

They updated the site, You can see the counter terrorist screen shots now.

[bn880]

LOL

oh wait, I'm not suppost to laugh. I mean, OK, looks like something is happening allright. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[waffendennis]

Just one thing: Marines with CTU ? wy that since when are Marines CTU's ?

[joltan]

The 'game' is also sold to law enforcement agencies (read: the police). There's different modules for different needs. As it also says 'first responders' I actually wonder if the local fire department (or any medic) wouldn't be free to buy a copy...

[bn880]

They would be, but the proper representative from the organization has to contact Coalescent or whoever is selling. They will not sell VBS to one individual team member, it has to be a proper training project AFAIK. For example we could probably acquire VBS through our Colleges Police training department, but we can't really afford something like this. It would be a good training tool if developed with proper addons and a trainer who knows his way around VBS/OFP command language. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

EDIT: But to be honest 1.92 is good enough for that...

[waffendennis]

ok thnxs for the info

[earl]

The counter-terrorist aspect of VBS is probably to draw interest from any and all potential LE/military clients, but the USMC has formed a CTU of sorts:

United States Marines Antiterrorism Force

http://popularmechanics.mondosearch.com/cgi-bin....rd=4th+ (http://popularmechanics.mondosearch.com/cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=4&EXTRA_ARG=&CFGNAME=MssFind%2Ecfg&host_id=42&page_id=13111040&query=USMC+4th&hiword=4th+)

[waffendennis]

The counter-terrorist aspect of VBS is probably to draw interest from any and all potential LE/military clients, but the USMC has formed a CTU of sorts:

United States Marines Antiterrorism Force

http://popularmechanics.mondosearch.com/cgi-bin....rd=4th+ (http://popularmechanics.mondosearch.com/cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=4&EXTRA_ARG=&CFGNAME=MssFind%2Ecfg&host_id=42&page_id=13111040&query=USMC+4th&hiword=4th+)
Hey thnxs for the info Earl http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
and speaking about CTU:
Check this pic (http://popularmechanics.com/science/military/2003/1/antiterrorism_forces/images/lg_car-lg.jpg)

Man that looks awesome

[theavonlady]

and speaking about CTU:
Check this pic (http://popularmechanics.com/science/military/2003/1/antiterrorism_forces/images/lg_car-lg.jpg)

Man that looks awesome
Looks lik warping to me. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[Acecombat]

Ok heres a very controversial question ... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

HAVE the RUSSIAN Army purchased VBS1 and if not and if they ever will what would be their opinion on it when the open the mission editor to see themselves on the OFPOR side http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[Dwarden]

Soon u will see US (side1) guys figting over CHINA (side3) againt Russian (side 2) throught VBS-2 http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif lol

[NZXSHADOWS]

I dont know if the russian army would be interested in something like VBS1.It wouldnt fit there profile.

[NZXSHADOWS]

Found us some VBS1 material.
VBS1 Video (http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/techdiv/ITK/VBS1/VBS1Draft.htm)

VBS1 Pictures (http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/techdiv/vbs-1_pics.htm)

Enjoy. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[theavonlady]

Found us some VBS1 material.
VBS1 Video (http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/techdiv/ITK/VBS1/VBS1Draft.htm)

VBS1 Pictures (http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/techdiv/vbs-1_pics.htm)

Enjoy. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/sad_o.gif I get a gateway timeout error for the links. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/sad_o.gif

[Canukausiuka]

Works for me...

good find NX http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
too bad I have to wait till class ends to look at them all

[NZXSHADOWS]

Yeah,It must be there server.Because its slow as it can get.Ive tried to get some of the videos and they wasnt there.But its worth checking out if you can get there.

[Canukausiuka]

I got the 1st to videos to load, but none of the others. And it did take an ungodly amount of time to load. The videos are cool, but its almost exactly like OFP:R.

[toadlife]

With a trained and dedicated staff to create scenarios and the appropriate addons, OFP could be used just as easily as a trainer. It's all about the money. VBS costs big bucks and has nominal improvments over OFP, therefore it must be better value than OFP for training purposes.

Paying $10 for a military trainer (OFP:GOTY) just wouln't be right for the country (the U.S.) that spends $10,000 for items like toliet seats.

[Supafly12]

spending $10.000 on a toilet seat and it still is crap http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif VBS was only created for training purposes, how ever I dont see how a game can make a soldier, pilot, tank crewmember etc etc... any better.

[bn880]

spending $10.000 on a toilet seat and it still is crap http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif VBS was only created for training purposes, how ever I dont see how a game can make a soldier, pilot, tank crewmember etc etc... any better.
It can, a lot better too. It can teach teamwork but especially command. Obviously OFP/VBS will not teach you the physical aspects like marksmanship, but if you are an officer or higher up it can be a great simulation. It can have many uses inbetween CQB and tactical combat.

If you are thinking of capture the flag or deathmatch type of gaming you are right, it deosn't add anything other than reflexes (which can be deadly to both sides ;) ).

EDIT: I guess CQB can also be taught, that is if the buildings have proper collision lods which don't make you walk through walls or have otherwise problematic experiences... I see a problem with having no peek around corner, or climb into window etc. but not sure if VBS has that solved.

[WhoCares]

We had this discussion already (maybe even in this thread); another advantage of VBS1 is the possibility of in-depth debriefings for all participants by a detailed record of the mission.

[bn880]

yes exaclty, command decisions are later reviewed and discussed. I am not sure how much VBS adds to the debriefings, but even a simple seagull mode control is good. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

[Acecombat]

Maybe the US amry has pawned off Kegetys spectating script http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif *sue 'em i say*

BTW are OFP addons compatible with VBS?

IF so is it legal for VBS owners to enjoy OFP addons since 'we' made them not BIS and they havent got OFP in the first place to get the right by default to play with them?

[NZXSHADOWS]

Maybe the US amry has pawned off Kegetys spectating script  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif  *sue 'em i say*

BTW are OFP addons compatible with VBS?

IF so is it legal for VBS owners to enjoy OFP addons since 'we' made them not BIS and they havent got OFP in the first place to get the right by default to play with them?
Maybe you didnt know but some of the units or addons as you may call them probly came from VBS1.So I wouldnt be acting like you would be pissed if they were using OFP addons.This is starting to sound like one of those © bullshit post,So I will just let this one hang out to dry.

[Acecombat]

Just a curious enquiry dude ... no copyright bull from me i'll vouch for that http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

I hate those arguments.

[bn880]

You two are opening a can of worms, just a warning. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif Best just look at your questions/concerns and look up copyright laws etc. Or we need a new topic, which is for laying down and avoiding.

[NZXSHADOWS]

What do you mean by warning?

[bn880]

What do you think?


http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif I mean exactly what's in that sentence "You two are opening a can of worms, just a warning."

[NZXSHADOWS]

Forget about all this,Lets Talk VBS1.Anybody have anything to share on VBS1.

[NZXSHADOWS]

Is it just me or did they update the Screenshot gallery

http://www.virtualbattlefieldsystems.com/screenshots/Avatars/vbs1_2023s.jpg

[theavonlady]

It's just you. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[NZXSHADOWS]

Oh,I figured it was.but I didnt know for sure.

[m21man]

I think I'll stop thinking about VBS and wait for OFP2. It'll be much better http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif .

[NZXSHADOWS]

I think I'll stop thinking about VBS and wait for OFP2. It'll be much better http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif .
you do that.Some of us are just interested inVBS1,Im dont care how good it is,im just interested in it.

[m21man]

Quote[/b] ]Some of us are just interested inVBS1,Im dont care how good it is,im just interested in it.
Because it's "Forbidden Fruit"?

[Pathy]

Quote[/b] ]Eligibility

The VBS1™ products are only sold to federal, state, and local government agencies for military, law enforcement, homeland defense, and first responder training. To help reduce administrative costs, we request that only qualified organizations contact us for purchases or additional information.



Ok so, surely we have an OFP player who works for a suitable local government agency...say, a US cop.......hell, we'll all club for the legal fee's...

[bn880]

It does not matter, VBS has licences assigned to individual machines, so even if someone got a copy, it would only be usable on that machine. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[Pathy]

-Censored-

[bn880]

Hehe, well, clever my butt, cracking a web site is nothing compared to getting around hardware keys. Err, shouldn't be discussing hacking of VBS ya know... mods will get upset.

[Pathy]

What do you mean http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[bn880]

I mean the moderators will start handing out the little color bars under our avatars. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif And that's not a good thing.

[Pathy]

Right, if we WERE to suggest such a thing....i dont see any such suggestion, do you ;)

[Placebo]

In such instances as you hinted on I think you'll find it would result in permanent bans with no warning, I would suggest you drop the topic immediately.

[Pathy]

Rgr that, we were just agreeing that it would be wrong....

Anyway, from what i see of VBS screenies, it basically just looks like another mod for OFP....probably borrowed aload of stuff from mods (scripts, or ideas at least, ect)....id be happier with OFP 2 in my hands than VBS...especially if OFP2 is more realistic (which is what makes soldier sims popular).

[m21man]

Quote[/b] ]Anyway, from what i see of VBS screenies, it basically just looks like another mod for OFP....probably borrowed aload of stuff from mods (scripts, or ideas at least, ect)....
Probably the next thing they'll release is an addon to VBS that adds a fictional African island to practice jungle combat techniques on http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif .

[Pathy]

At least it wont be a colombian map....:D

[BraTTy]

If we knew more about VBS its possible that people may make addons suitable for VBS also (civil,swat etc..)

This post is also to rid that awful mp sux topic

[TheMarshal=TOB=]

Quote[/b] ]If we knew more about VBS its possible that people may make addons suitable for VBS also (civil,swat etc..)

This post is also to rid that awful mp sux topic

Would never happen...it's a violation of the contract..no altering the game what so ever. I do know one thing...the Marine Corps is so fed up with VBS that they are using OFP instead, but due to contracts they have to keep buying the damn thing. VBS is so limited in what it can do and what can be added. You can't just take OFP addons and throw them in there, because the config and coding is slightly different. Thats why they started using OFP instead. An almost unlimited addon base, more realistic graphics, loads of tutorials on how to create realistic missions,  ect. I think VBS has met it's match with OFP. The child has surpassed the parent.

It's like having a video game but the game company won't tell you how to mod it so you can add more stuff to it...it eventually fades out and dies...take the Online game WWII. It was the same thing as OFP, release two years earlier, but you had to pay to play and you couldn't add mods or newer vehicles...the game just faded away.

[RalphWiggum]

gives me an idea. maybe USMC should order OFP2 in advance and if CM fails to deliever them on same release date as EU, USMC will show what happens. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

of course, i think it's about time we refresh our minds that VBS, despite heavily based on BIS's engine, seems to be dealt through Coalescence(?)

[Placebo]

This post is also to rid that awful mp sux topic
I got rid of it manually, it was bugging me as well http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[m21man]

Quote[/b] ]Would never happen...it's a violation of the contract..no altering the game what so ever. I do know one thing...the Marine Corps is so fed up with VBS that they are using OFP instead, but due to contracts they have to keep buying the damn thing. VBS is so limited in what it can do and what can be added. You can't just take OFP addons and throw them in there, because the config and coding is slightly different. Thats why they started using OFP instead. An almost unlimited addon base, more realistic graphics, loads of tutorials on how to create realistic missions,  ect. I think VBS has met it's match with OFP. The child has surpassed the parent.
So, the Marines use OFP? I wonder if they use Earl and Suchey's Marines http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif .

[bn880]

Told you not to freak out about VBS... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[waffendennis]

Quote[/b] ]Would never happen...it's a violation of the contract..no altering the game what so ever. I do know one thing...the Marine Corps is so fed up with VBS that they are using OFP instead, but due to contracts they have to keep buying the damn thing. VBS is so limited in what it can do and what can be added. You can't just take OFP addons and throw them in there, because the config and coding is slightly different. Thats why they started using OFP instead. An almost unlimited addon base, more realistic graphics, loads of tutorials on how to create realistic missions,  ect. I think VBS has met it's match with OFP. The child has surpassed the parent.
So, the Marines use OFP? I wonder if they use Earl and Suchey's Marines http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif .
No They use their own Marines...
With the default BIS weapons.

[blackdog~]

gives me an idea. maybe USMC should order OFP2 in advance and if CM fails to deliever them on same release date as EU, USMC will show what happens. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

of course, i think it's about time we refresh our minds that VBS, despite heavily based on BIS's engine, seems to be dealt through Coalescence(?)
Hopefully forum spammers and moderators alike can get advance copies ;p


Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Would never happen...it's a violation of the contract..no altering the game what so ever. I do know one thing...the Marine Corps is so fed up with VBS that they are using OFP instead, but due to contracts they have to keep buying the damn thing. VBS is so limited in what it can do and what can be added. You can't just take OFP addons and throw them in there, because the config and coding is slightly different. Thats why they started using OFP instead. An almost unlimited addon base, more realistic graphics, loads of tutorials on how to create realistic missions, ect. I think VBS has met it's match with OFP. The child has surpassed the parent.
So, the Marines use OFP? I wonder if they use Earl and Suchey's Marines http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif .
No They use their own Marines...
With the default BIS weapons.

And since you are in the USMC, I guess you woukd know this.

*sarcasm*

[theavonlady]

Hopefully forum spammers and moderators alike can get advance copies ;p
YES! I'M IN! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

[Heatseeker]

Interesting, theres o2 and visitor, many tuts. about mission design, many user made units, some of wich are very realistic and varied (theres even artillery http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif ). Do the marines really need VBS? Their the ones with access to all types of map intel and vehical/equipment data, is coalescent something like the marine own private addon/mission studio http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rock.gif .
Im guessing they couldnt use OPF without some special agreement/contract with codemasters and BIS so this is where coalescent comes in.

Quote[/b] ]No They use their own Marines...
With the default BIS weapons.
I have no idea of how VBS1 is used but im guessing weapons and looks aint really important, maybe its used more like to simulate troop deployment on diferent types of cenarios, comunication and coordination of diferent teams and aproaching and securing specific objectives/locations. More of a strategic tool rather than a FPS i mean http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif .

[e.t.]

Im a Marine, and a friend of mine was on temporary duty where they use VBS for training and stuff. He couldnt tell me much about what they did in there cause you have to have a certain security clearance for that type of info.

Although, he did show me a video that was he making by request of the 3rdLAR, to show how the simulated combat worked. He used OFP and not VBS to make this video. Was a short vid. of USMC LAV's, AAV's, and infantry units (all custom addons from the OFP community) atacking various enemies inside the city of Petrovice i think it was.

He didnt say that he preferred OFP over VBS, but i thought it was kinda funny OFP is what he used.

[ale2999]

Im a Marine, and a friend of mine was on temporary duty where they use VBS for training and stuff.  He couldnt tell me much about what they did in there cause you have to have a certain security clearance for that type of info.

Although, he did show me a video that was he making by request of the 3rdLAR, to show how the simulated combat worked.  He used OFP and not VBS to make this video.  Was a short vid. of USMC LAV's, AAV's, and infantry units (all custom addons from the OFP community) atacking various enemies inside the city of Petrovice i think it was.

He didnt say that he preferred OFP over VBS, but i thought it was kinda funny OFP is what he used.
or maybe he showed u ofp cuz u didnt have clearance to see vbs or perhaps he is not to take vbs to play at home as its not really a game.... so at home he practices on ofp. how does that sound for an explanation? lol. looking at this thread i just want to laugh, hard. Most of you are just speculating about what you dont even know for certain.

[bn880]

lol. looking at this thread i just want to laugh, hard. Most of you are just speculating about what you dont even know for certain.
Yeah, and if you practice hard you can get really good at it. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[m21man]

Quote[/b] ]or maybe he showed u ofp cuz u didnt have clearance to see vbs or perhaps he is not to take vbs to play at home as its not really a game
Why would you need clearance to see a mod for a game that is publically available?!? The military can be very screwy at times http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rock.gif ...

[bn880]

Hmm I think you are slipping up a bit there m21man, maybe it's past your bedtime. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[m21man]

I thought you needed clearance for purchasing it. You're telling me it's "secret"?

[m21man]

Quote[/b] ]Hmm I think you are slipping up a bit there m21man, maybe it's past your bedtime.
Har har har. What's the point of making a game secret if it's components are available on the market?

[bn880]

VBS is not sold and available to the public, I think that has been made clear here. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rock.gif

[m21man]

We've got the MARPATs and the CoC Command Engine. That's at least as good as VBS http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif .

[bn880]

Well I'm not saying we don't have better stuff http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif who knows

[RalphWiggum]

VBS is sold to LEOs and military only, and I doubt if post-installation related matters are free from certain levels of secrecy.

[TheMarshal=TOB=]

Im a Marine, and a friend of mine was on temporary duty where they use VBS for training and stuff.  He couldnt tell me much about what they did in there cause you have to have a certain security clearance for that type of info.

Although, he did show me a video that was he making by request of the 3rdLAR, to show how the simulated combat worked.  He used OFP and not VBS to make this video.  Was a short vid. of USMC LAV's, AAV's, and infantry units (all custom addons from the OFP community) atacking various enemies inside the city of Petrovice i think it was.

He didnt say that he preferred OFP over VBS, but i thought it was kinda funny OFP is what he used.
Sorry bro but your friend was bullshittin you man...there is no security clearance needed to enter the VBS station or to use it. It's just like using the ISMIT system...any Marine who walks in there can use it.

[TheMarshal=TOB=]

Let me clear a few things up...things I've said before but I guess no one read it.

First off I do have access to VBS here on my base and I have used it on many of occassions. I am going to put an end to some rumors and speculations here for you all.

1) VBS is not classified nor does it need a secret clearance to play it. I have brought civilians in there with no problems what so ever.

2) Graphics and game play are no better then the original OFP game, not Resistance. There are rumors that VBS has such better graphics and game play, they are all wrong. In fact OFP, with it's outstanding community of addon makers, has a much better span of variaty and versatility than VBS. OFP has unlimited resources do to addon makers.

3) Islands. They are the same quality as the first islands that came with OFP. The only difference is they are of USMC military bases. (this is the only part of the game that could be considered Classified, but since their research was done on these bases five years before this game was released it makes it useless for any tactical value for our enemies or terrorist's)

4) The only purpose of that VBS fills is to give some sort of small unit leadership skill training and review. This helps NCO's and Junior Commissioned Officers with the consept of leading a small squad of Marines into a combat situation.

5) There is no Addon/Mission making section of the Marine Corps that builds missions or addons for VBS. As a matter of fact I get asked to help make missions for VBS training because I am pretty decent at making missions for OFP and it's the same thing as building a simple OFP mission. The mission editor is almost a carbon copy of OFP's

6) Yes the Marine Corps is using OFP in some of it's VBS Stations, here at my base is one of them and one area on the main land USA. Is it illegal for them to do this? No. There is nothing in the contrat stateing that the USMC cannot use alternate venues to train our Marines. We will use what ever we think is best to train our Marines. BIS and Coalescencehave no control over that, they are not the ones who have to deal with a Marines family if they are killed from faulty training methods.

If you guys have any real questions about VBS just ask...I'll tell ya anything you know. Hell I'm going there this week to take some screenshots of it for some reference material for some addon makers so I'll post them here too  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

And before I get slammed by over reactive Moderators...I can legally do that.

[waffendennis]

gives me an idea. maybe USMC should order OFP2 in advance and if CM fails to deliever them on same release date as EU, USMC will show what happens. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

of course, i think it's about time we refresh our minds that VBS, despite heavily based on BIS's engine, seems to be dealt through Coalescence(?)
Hopefully forum spammers and moderators alike can get advance copies ;p


Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Would never happen...it's a violation of the contract..no altering the game what so ever. I do know one thing...the Marine Corps is so fed up with VBS that they are using OFP instead, but due to contracts they have to keep buying the damn thing. VBS is so limited in what it can do and what can be added. You can't just take OFP addons and throw them in there, because the config and coding is slightly different. Thats why they started using OFP instead. An almost unlimited addon base, more realistic graphics, loads of tutorials on how to create realistic missions,  ect. I think VBS has met it's match with OFP. The child has surpassed the parent.
So, the Marines use OFP? I wonder if they use Earl and Suchey's Marines http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif .
No They use their own Marines...
With the default BIS weapons.

And since you are in the USMC, I guess you woukd know this.

*sarcasm*
I am not in the USMC but....I know Mike ( TheMarshal=TOB= )

And I saw ingame pic's from the marines...
Hell yet I even have the marines ingame...
( Downloaded from a website )

[m21man]

Quote[/b] ]1) VBS is not classified nor does it need a secret clearance to play it. I have brought civilians in there with no problems what so ever.
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif


Quote[/b] ]3) Islands. They are the same quality as the first islands that came with OFP. The only difference is they are of USMC military bases. (this is the only part of the game that could be considered Classified, but since their research was done on these bases five years before this game was released it makes it useless for any tactical value for our enemies or terrorist's)
The same quality? So they're pretty good?

[bn880]

So anyway, the reason the guy was not recording VBS at his home is probably a hardware license key issue. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[TheMarshal=TOB=]

So anyway, the reason the guy was not recording VBS at his home is probably a hardware license key issue.  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif
The only way to use VBS is with a USB Key that the CD came with. It won't work with Burned copies either (I tried already http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif ) . Each computer that has the game on it must have that key in a USB port. Without it the game will not work.

[bn880]

Heh, yeah and I don't think it's very nice to jack a USB key from the lab. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[RalphWiggum]

It won't work with Burned copies either (I tried already  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif ) .
bad jarhead! Baaaaaaaddd jarhead! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[ale2999]

It won't work with Burned copies either (I tried already  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif ) .
bad jarhead! Baaaaaaaddd jarhead! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif
lol bad! bad!
So do NCO have to practice their leadership skills a couple of hours a week with vbs or how does it work? if it is just for drop in usage what is the point lol?

[TheMarshal=TOB=]

It's for use when ever there is time....mostly grunts use it. There is no set usage for it.

[edc]

Is CQB any better simulated than in OFP?

[TheMarshal=TOB=]

Yes and no...it's the same as OFP...CQB is all on the players, so if the teams work well with each other then yes it is a great CQB session, but if they do not use team work and just try to play it like a first person shooter then no it isn't better.

I've seen sessions where it looks like a well oiled machine and not one person is killed on the allied team, but I've also seen sessions where the Marines are not taking the training seriously and myself (Yes sometimes I play opposission for the VBS station on my free time) and the other opposision players mop the floor with the allied team. TEAMWORK is what OFP & VBS1 were built for...if a team doesn't utilize teamwork they will lose.

Think back to the MP games you play and why you won. 9 times out of 10 it's because the team you were on worked very well together, dispite their skill level. You can have even teams with one team that has highly skilled players and one team with moderatly skilled members. If the team with highly skilled players doesn't work together and communicate then they will lose, if the other team is utilizing teamwork and communication.

[Blake]

I was wondering about config, does VBS use default OFP bullet damage, recoils and weapon sway effects? Are there more realistic smoke effects like smoke blocking AI vision like in FDF Mod for example.

What kind of sessions do you play in VBS, coop or do you play that you have some kind of adversalial where enemy players control at least part of the AIs to allow more surprising responses against human team?

All this would be very interesting to hear...

[TheMarshal=TOB=]

I was wondering about config, does VBS use default OFP bullet damage, recoils and weapon sway effects? Are there more realistic smoke effects like smoke blocking AI vision like in FDF Mod for example.

What kind of sessions do you play in VBS, coop or do you play that you have some kind of adversalial where enemy players control at least part of the AIs to allow more surprising responses against human team?

All this would be very interesting to hear...
All of the effects are the same as OFP...as far as the configs, they are the same as well except they are designed for VBS and are encrypted.

We play a variaty of missions...a lot of attack and defend and search and destroy, since these are major roles of Marines Ground Troops. We also do air insertions and stealth recon missions as well. As far as I know the VBS station on my base is one of the only ones that gets this indepth with our mission planning though...it's probibly because I we have more of a mission designing knowledge then the rest of the VBS staff around the Marine Corps. Most stations stick to the original missions that the VBS came with.

[Dinger]

For those of you who are still trying to figure out VBS1, here's how you can understand it:

Think of how much time it takes to make an addon, or a script. Now, imagine you're in a "for hire" role being paid by coalescent to do VBS1 stuff.  There's only so much you can do, and at some point, all the access to BIS you want isn't gonna write your code, model your models, or explain this completely arcane scripting language.   THe sad truth is that some of the freaks and addicts who do this crap for fun probably have a better handle on how it works than any of the professionals. In all fairness, the professionals might be capable of putting out a balanced product on schedule, whereas most freaks tend to go overboard in some "fun" areas and short-change the "hard work" section (The classic weakness of amateurs), and will produce stuff way too complicated and messed up to be released on time.


Anyway, what this means is: don't expect anything revolutionary from VBS1.  Even if the marines shelled out say a million bucks, that sum wouldn't pay for the same sort of OFP mods you can download.  But those VBS mods one would hope, would work, have all their LODs, and do exactly what you'd expect (and nothing more).

As for what happens in the labs, think of how you use Microsoft Word.  Most of the time, you're only using 5% of its potential, especially if you're not particularly interested in the program in itself.

And yeah, teamwork kicks butt.
(edited a cupola typos)

[Blake]

Good points about the 'fertile freakyness' of the OFP addonmaking community http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

But I was just wondering if it would be wise for Coalescent to make somekind of 'Realism and Visuals enhancement package blah blah' which could have taken some ideas from the addon makers like winter theatre of operations, improved rain effects, sky, more realistic weapon specs and sell it to Marines. Of course by making those enchancements by themselves...

But won't probably happen 'since it's there and it works'.

[TheMarshal=TOB=]

You pretty much hit it right in the money sack there Dinger. What it realy boils down to is the US Government goes for the LOWEST bidder...yes there were other systems that got chopped...and they were lightyears ahead of VBS...I'm talking VR goggles, gloves, body suites...the whole nine yards, but VBS was picked due to is versatility, price, and the ability to jump in and play without extensive training on the game itself. Within 10 minutes a Marine can be told how the basics of VBS works and get into training at a basic level. The USMC wasn't looking for BAS or DKM caliber graphics and effects either, but looked for what would work to get their mission completed for our training...but VBS fell just a tad short...hense the use of OFP in some VBS stations instead of VBS.  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif


Quote[/b] ]But I was just wondering if it would be wise for Coalescent to make somekind of 'Realism and Visuals enhancement package blah blah' which could have taken some ideas from the addon makers like winter theatre of operations, improved rain effects, sky, more realistic weapon specs and sell it to Marines. Of course by making those enchancements by themselves...

But won't probably happen 'since it's there and it works'.


Well This is the main reason why some VBS stations use OFP instead, because of the addons. The more realistic it looks and feels the more the Marines get into the training.

[Spy17]

What about artillery in VBS1?
And the mission review option?

[BraTTy]

Thanks for the insight on VBS , I assumed that it was same thing as OFP just using classes of addons for target audience
ie:

Police,Swat,Civilian,Crimminal units when sold to law enforcement

Marines and nowadays prolly mid eastern units when sold to USMC

I assumed they were using those nice civilian units from Martin and such and would desire addons for example :
747 airliner,news chopper,swat vans,armored cars,civilian locations and such

Suppose its something they may want to consider for VBS2

Would be automatic sale for agencies involved with the war on terror if they could train for airport and location security

[jacobaby]

great post dinger!!

so v true

Most of the military units I speak with use standard OFP anyways.

TJ

[noundo]

If anyone is still interested, I found a USMC site that has AVI video from VBS.  

Training and Education Command (http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/techdiv/ITK/VBS1/VBS1Draft.htm)

(edited for typo)

[NZXSHADOWS]

BI STUDIO (http://www.bistudio.com/inside/people.html) Look for the developer of VBS1.And you might figure something out.

[noundo]

BI STUDIO (http://www.bistudio.com/inside/people.html) Look for the developer of VBS1.And you might figure something out.
Huh? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rock.gif

[Cozza]

So. Its the Australia branch making it. (Batdog steel Dads ute to drive to Port Stevenson.) Also. When has Zwander been working for BIS http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rock.gif

[theavonlady]

When has Zwander been working for BIS  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rock.gif
Woohoo!

C'mon, Zwadar! Give us Desert Nogova with dispersed outhouses! http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[Canukausiuka]

Hey, looks like some of our modders and mission makers may have a job waiting for them with VBS!

"New Employment Opportunity Gamer/Coder" (http://www.virtualbattlefieldsystems.com/new.html)


Quote[/b] ]Gamer/Coder
Job Qualifications:
Candidate must have in depth knowledge of PC Gaming and gaming system development. Intimate knowledge of Bohemia Interactive Studio (BIS) game engine command language set and scripting language. Extensive knowledge in using the Mission Editor, as well as with class and objects. Able to create complex mission scenarios and obtain required behavior effects to meet project requirements. Military background preferred, but not required.

Duties/Responsibilities:
Write, modify and test scripting language to support the Virtual Battlefield (VBS1) module development.

If you are interested any of the available employment opportunities at Coalescent Technologies Corporation, send e-mail to: mccoyj@<hidden> You may also fax your resume at (407) 649-2112 or mail it to the address below.

Sounds like fun http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[bn880]

I&#39;m kind of surprized about this since AFAIK they don&#39;t have that much business currently with most trying to switch to OFP from VBS1. And if they keep focusing on CQB then there she goes...

In depth Gaming System Development, maybe they want to hire Suma. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[joltan]

I&#39;m kind of surprized about this since AFAIK they don&#39;t have that much business currently with most trying to switch to OFP from VBS1. And if they keep focusing on CQB then there she goes...
Well, if they want to make any money they need to improve their product. So hiring some skilled hands seems like a logical thing to do.

[bn880]

I was thinking, but what will stop the marines or others from hiring these hands directly, cutting out Coalescent, getting better results and saving a buck. I see really one one "major" benefit to VBS1 over OFP195 so... but anyway, I think being more versatile on behalf of Coalescent is very much needed, good idea. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[BraTTy]

They hiring in the US? Says Florida..sounds great ,but they must be looking for the Bas team, who fit&#39;s the "Extensive Mission" part.I&#39;m more likely to script a mission.

[bn880]

Nope, they are looking for this not BAS
Quote[/b] ]Write, modify and test scripting language to support the Virtual Battlefield (VBS1) module development.
BAS does addons...

EDIT: I think you see the contrast between the two general statements

[SpeedyDonkey]

"Write, modify and test scripting language to support the Virtual Battlefield (VBS1) module development."

Sounds like something for bn880?

http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[Hellfish6]

As Coalescent is a defense contractor, you probably have to be an American citizen and able to get a security clearance. That rules out most of you potheads. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

[bn880]

Who you calling a pothead? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/crazy_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif It&#39;s ok, we&#39;ll send Dinger in.


EDIT: And I don&#39;t think this rules out non US or Aussie citizens BTW. If they had that requirement it would be stated. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[bn880]

"Write, modify and test scripting language to support the Virtual Battlefield (VBS1) module development."

Sounds like something for bn880?

http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
It&#39;s like a job made out of my precise hobby&#33; tempting. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif But man, moving to Australia or the States. Why can&#39;t this be in Sweden. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[Placebo]

But man, moving to Australia or the States.  Why can&#39;t this be in Sweden.  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif
Bis have watched one too many episodes of "When Elk attack"? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[bn880]

No I am sure they know full well of the ambitious crusade Sweden is going to start next year, headed by Denoir, the famous Scandinavian war hero. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[Baphomet]

All this talk and seeing VBS stuff. What with those mysterious (supposedly VBS 2) screenies at ofp.info. Just makes me sad I&#39;ll never play it.

And that&#39;s just sad in of itself. Being sad about a computer game. But oh what a computer game it would be.

[bn880]

I think you need to read over the last few pages in this thread, you are not missing anything from an enjoyment perspective, I think a few people here can guarantee this to you.

[Powerslide]

Ya what are you missing exactly? From what I hear VBS is no better then OFPR. Furthermore the addons are better for OFPR. Essentially it&#39;s the same game anyway.

[NZXSHADOWS]

I would have to say that it is still something worth checking out.

[bn880]

On what basis?

[NZXSHADOWS]

On what basis?
I dunno,this looks pretty nice,

http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/12652/USMC-0048.jpg

[bn880]

Looks like OFPR to me. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[NZXSHADOWS]

Off course it is,Why would it not be.Is VBS1 supose to look any different?I just like the looks of that Tactica v2.0 beta program.

[bn880]

Yep, me too. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif I wonder if somehting like this is coming to OFP2 http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[NZXSHADOWS]

I would hope so.That programs seems pretty indepth in planning a mission.

[Babalon]

That does look real cool for mission making. Someone write him and beg him for an OFP version.

[Lt_Damage]

My question is why did they screenshot some of the mission editor, then stick the top of the Tactica menu on top ?? You can even see part of the mouse cursor that was cut off.. confusing..

Maybe it&#39;s just showing the simularities between the two..

[bn880]

Looks to me like, they show how they can import real terrain into OFP (err VBS) and work not only from a theoretical large scale battle but also go down deep into OFP (3D) and resolve these battles. Like a major military chess game, you can go all the way up to small country size battles in small chunks. If you have the will power to run through and generate such a campaign etc.

It&#39;s possible...
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/rock.gif

[Matthijs]

Hm, creating a mission outside OFP itself is no problem. The mission is nothing more than a bunch of textfiles and some soundfiles. I&#39;m convinced that CoC could create something like this, provided some generous soul would donate us enough spare time for our hobby.

(Hey bn880, such an external editor would be a nice solution to the automatic placement of markers with units, and probably add lots of other possibilities....)



On a sidenote, did anyone ever check out the games that are used alongside VBS1?
http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/techdiv/ITK/ITKHome/ITKHome.htm

- TACOPS4, an off-the-shelf commercial strategic simulation, based on the US Army&#39;s "TACOPS CAV". A bit limited in possibilities of customisation, but still quite nice.

- Close Combat Marines, modified version of Microsoft&#39;s Close Combat series. (Does anyone know of a Close Combat mod that provides similar functionality?)

You can even download a study guide. This guide might also be interesting for the more serious OFP and/or CoC players:
http://www.2ndbn5thmar.com/ccm/ccmtoc.htm

[walker]

Hi all

Err? Mathhijs an external editor for logistics is allready something I am working on.

Kind regards Walker

[Hellfish6]

I&#39;ve been playing TacOps for nearly ten years now, from even before I was in the Army. The game itself is very good at replicating modern warfare at the battalion/brigade level, but the engine is showing itself to be quite outdated (there are, for example, still only two ground elevation levels). The best thing about it, though, is that it can have up to, I think, 20 different people playing at one time. Ten can be Bluefor, five can be red, three can be observers and the other two can be umpires. Each player is given a certain number of units, and they fight blind with those units - i.e. you can&#39;t see what the company next to you is doing unless you see his units or he tells you what&#39;s happening.

It&#39;s really a great feature, and I hope that CoC does something similar with the next revision of their command engine and multiplayer capability. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[bn880]

Sorry, we&#39;re too busy saving the world. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif We&#39;d do all this stuff you guys suggest, but, everything has to fit in "spare time". http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/sad_o.gif

[Matthijs]

Hi all

Err? Mathhijs an external editor for logistics is allready something I am working on.

Kind regards Walker
I meant an external editor for every apect of mission editing, from "player" unit to outro scene. It would make the OFP editor almost totally redundant and give the best opportunity for extra functionality. (And would cost an enormous amount of time... which I personally don&#39;t have.)

[NZXSHADOWS]

Ever heard of the demo mission editor "Cedit" or something like that?

[Matthijs]

Ever heard of the demo mission editor "Cedit" or something like that?
http://www.alkitech.com/flashpoint.html

Is this what you mean? Didn&#39;t know this thingy existed. Looks impressive&#33;

Opens up some possibilities for Linux servers running Apache with PHP together with the OFP dedicated server.