View Full Version : CTF Discussion
Corporal Ice
Nov 19 2001, 09:14
In Capture the flag missions, sometimes I place a Satchell in the Flag´s ground and wait until the enemy comes. When they come I let them see the flag going down. Then, when it touches his hands I activate the Satchell. I always advise it:"Please, do not take our flag, it harms". And I never do it more than two times in the same game.
Yesterday, some people told me: "that is camping!".
I think that´s only a nice joke, and a real tactic, cause I don´t go elsewhere to activate the bomb when I see "Flag captured" (that will be cheating, I think). I wait there till I see it!.
Do you think it is a nice joke, a good tactic or cheating?
Please, I want to know different point of view about this
Thundercok
Nov 19 2001, 09:29
From a non-camping ex-quaker I have no problem with that scenario. I never had a problem with quake 'campers'.
Unless you have a binding agreement with the geekwad clan you are playing, you can do any d*amn thing you want to.
"CAMPING" has been, and always will be, the cry of the anal that just got their head blown off.
Happy trails, I say.
Corporal Ice
Nov 19 2001, 09:37
Thanks Sergeant!.
RN Malboeuf
Nov 19 2001, 11:30
I use it all the time, telling some one they are not allowed to use a weapon basicaly defeats the purpose of the game
1 they can use it as well
2 it's not hard to find the guy with the switch and kill him
3 never just send ONE man to get the flag lol
If you can do it within the rules of the game its ok in my book...people b*tch about respawn camping too...if it is important to you...keep a guard there to ensure that the enemy can not approach the position rather than running into the middle of the map and emptying all your clips. People need to remember that this isnt a Frag Fest. If someone calls you a camper...take that as a compliment...it means you figured out that standing straight up and running around balls out only gets you whacked.
WhoCares
Nov 19 2001, 14:48
The respawn area camping is a bit more critical imho. Just check the new CTF mission, where the US respawn area is covered with bushes and behind a 'hill', but the russian one on an open slope. I played it offline, just got the sniper rifle, went some steps up the hill and could control the russians respawn area...
However, camping at the flag is a different thing, since its the opponents risc to enter a nonsecured area. Like the other official map, were the flag is next to this shed with an ammo crate inside - what would have been the idea of the mission designer??? http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
1st
in a tactical environment there is nothin as rushing or camping or whatever as long the environment is realistic as far as possbile (weapons, health, physics,...)
2nd
i HATE ctf!
CTF is a great game-type for deathmatch-games like quake halflife or other ones.
But for tactical motivated people its like a slap in the face!
Why?
Well, just imagine this scenario as it can happen everywhere:
You know that you can get flag but can make only the "point" if your own flag is still in your base. now a nasty player could do this - he takes your flag, take it to his own and gets the point for it, THEN a teammate does take AGAIN the enemy flag and runs away - AND I MEAN he runs away and just hides! so the enemy team has NO POSSIBLE WAY to make a point!
OFP were made for people who are fed up with deathmatch-alike games.
We do like coop missions, team vs team, lastmanstanding and so on but we do NOT like CTF. CTF causes just stupid deathmatch scenarios because the "soldiers" dont care for their lifes! as long the can respawn within a second....
3rd
remove CTF and add some userful tactical types as:
hamburger hill
last man standing
team vs team (its already i know but there is still a lot room for enhancements)
co-op mission
sincerly
Simon aka [USR]General.Lange O-11 USAR 1BN 5th
RN Malboeuf
Nov 20 2001, 04:28
yea ok then why is CTF the most played?
and even if that guy runs and hides you can actually still track him down
thats tactics baby YA!
(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 9:53 am on Nov. 20, 2001)
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from RN Malboeuf on 7:28 am on Nov. 20, 2001
and even if that guy runs and hides you can actually still track him down
thats tactics baby YA![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
LOL how BABY! HOW!?
imagine a sniper in a helicopter 10km away and then 5 km in a forest or whatever...
HOW YOU WANNA TRACK HIM DOWN?! (in 15minutes?! or 30minutes?!) maybe in recruit-mode (LOL) but not in vet mode BABY!
searching for him the whole island may take hours to complete but on ctf server you only have 15 minutes or 30minutes but not hours. EXPLAIN! we are really excited in learning sumthin new by your awesome "tactical" experience. LOL
before talking bulls**t think first
Simon
(Edited by Lange at 7:43 am on Nov. 20, 2001)
the problem is that they CANT disarm the satchel by shooting it before getting the flag..the only thing they can do is to find and kill you, but since the range for the detonator is several hundred meters you could be anywhere, and if it is a town its even worse....
AND if they do find and kill you they still dont know if it is safe to get the flag since they dont know if it was your satchel in the first place.....
sure you can use all methods in the game but that one gives the player no choise but to commit suicide when trying to get the flag.....its a working tactic, but id advise you not to use it to keep the game active...if both teams do it then a ctf game turns to deathmatch, no1 is willing to kill themselfs for that flag and risk finding another satchel there when they respawn and get back....
Corporal Ice
Nov 20 2001, 09:38
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from RN Malboeuf on 2:30 pm on Nov. 19, 2001
I use it all the time, telling some one they are not allowed to use a weapon basicaly defeats the purpose of the game
1 they can use it as well
2 it's not hard to find the guy with the switch and kill him
3 never just send ONE man to get the flag lol
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I don´t think that "they can use it as well" is a good reason. But I like the third point... lol
Corporal Ice
Nov 20 2001, 09:40
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Suchey on 5:22 pm on Nov. 19, 2001
If you can do it within the rules of the game its ok in my book...people b*tch about respawn camping too...if it is ***important to you...keep a guard there to ensure that the enemy can not approach the position rather than running into the middle of the map and emptying all your clips. People need to remember that this isnt a Frag Fest. ***If someone calls you a camper...take that as a compliment...it means you figured out that standing straight up and running around balls out only gets you whacked.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yes, it seems to be there is a "political acepted" way of fighting CTF. I Don´t like that way. Squads combat is a mixture between discipline and creativity.
Corporal Ice
Nov 20 2001, 09:42
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from WhoCares on 5:48 pm on Nov. 19, 2001
The respawn area camping is a bit more critical imho. Just check the new CTF mission, where the US respawn area is covered with bushes and behind a 'hill', but the russian one on an open slope. I played it offline, just got the sniper rifle, went some steps up the hill and could control the russians respawn area...
However, camping at the flag is a different thing, since its the opponents risc to enter a nonsecured area. Like the other official map, were the flag is next to this shed with an ammo crate inside - what would have been the idea of the mission designer??? http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I don´t like camping at the respawn area. It kills the spirit of fight itself....
But There is a huge difference between camping at the respawn area and defending the flag.
I´m sure that mission designer thought about defending (otherway that ammo crate isn´t usefull).
Corporal Ice
Nov 20 2001, 09:48
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Lange on 7:25 am on Nov. 20, 2001
1st
in a tactical environment there is nothin as rushing or camping or whatever as long the environment is realistic as far as possbile (weapons, health, physics,...)
2nd
i HATE ctf!
CTF is a great game-type for deathmatch-games like quake halflife or other ones.
But for tactical motivated people its like a slap in the face!
Why?
Well, just imagine this scenario as it can happen everywhere:
You know that you can get flag but can make only the "point" if your own flag is still in your base. now a nasty player could do this - he takes your flag, take it to his own and gets the point for it, THEN a teammate does take AGAIN the enemy flag and runs away - AND I MEAN he runs away and just hides! so the enemy team has NO POSSIBLE WAY to make a point!
OFP were made for people who are fed up with deathmatch-alike games.
We do like coop missions, team vs team, lastmanstanding and so on but we do NOT like CTF. CTF causes just stupid deathmatch scenarios because the "soldiers" dont care for their lifes! as long the can respawn within a second....
3rd
remove CTF and add some userful tactical types as:
hamburger hill
last man standing
team vs team (its already i know but there is still a lot room for enhancements)
co-op mission
sincerly
Simon aka [USR]General.Lange O-11 USAR 1BN 5th
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I don´t like CTF too much, but it´s a good game, because in multiplayer games it is really difficult to find a good co-op game. Players hardly admit the orders of the commander (everyone runs and become a sniper), and (even worse) there aren´t good commanders out there. I´m not a good commander, but I had my real training as one (Corporal, not an officer), and I tryed to act as a true commander in a mission 5 against 5. The players who acted at snipers running everywhere in the last mission accepted this ime the command. And we kick the others in a really easy way. Ambushing, envolving, givin coberture fire, supressing. That game was cool!!
Corporal Ice
Nov 20 2001, 09:50
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Pete on 12:11 pm on Nov. 20, 2001
the problem is that they CANT disarm the satchel by shooting it before getting the flag..the only thing they can do is to find and kill you, but since the range for the detonator is several hundred meters you could be anywhere, and if it is a town its even worse....
AND if they do find and kill you they still dont know if it is safe to get the flag since they dont know if it was your satchel in the first place.....
sure you can use all methods in the game but that one gives the player no choise but to commit suicide when trying to get the flag.....its a working tactic, but id advise you not to use it to keep the game active...if both teams do it then a ctf game turns to deathmatch, no1 is willing to kill themselfs for that flag and risk finding another satchel there when they respawn and get back....
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That is a great problem. I have been asking for a deactivate bomb or mine option (enemy ones, i know U can deactivate yours). It is really necesary.
I think that option will change lots of home-made-tactics in OPF.
Corporal Ice
Nov 20 2001, 09:52
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from RN Malboeuf on 7:28 am on Nov. 20, 2001
yea ok then why is CTF the mos played?
and even if that guy runs and hides you can actually still track him down
thats tactics baby YA!
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I think people likes CTF cause it´s a good blend between co-op and individual game types.
WhoCares
Nov 20 2001, 09:53
@Pete: This might be a prob with few players, that's true. But then you can add some AIs and he might blow up one of them (CTF with two players only might be boring anyhow). Satchel is not that worse, since he has to go to the flag himself to place it, what makes him vulnerable. A sniper would be a bigger prob.
With a Team-CTF you must expect, that someone left behind to protect the flag. And in a common CTF it's a tactic to wait for the enemy closing in, kill him and then take the flag by yourself, knowing that it's less dangerous with one less in the area. And if you respawn and nobody has taken the flag - well, now you know, that there is someone around waiting for you...
As I said before, only respawn area camping is bad, since you can't control the way you enter it (except if you avoid to be killed http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
RN Malboeuf
Nov 20 2001, 13:01
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Lange
before talking bulls**t think first
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sorry you have not played OFP enough then yo know how it's done, any player can be track and trianglulated when the Squad players have extensive Map and member location knowlage
with in moments of the flag captuer several members will begin traking, the stolen flag, they know thier location and other members location by communicating
Thus ruling each other out as a target
then that will leave the Flag Man, two - three members will track him and either cut him off or force him to fight so a sniper can get him
I have never lost a Flag's positions
if you know your stuff it's actually quite easy
Don't every say it's impossible because of 1 little fact I wont tell you about, you'll have to learn it for your self
Corporal Ice
Nov 20 2001, 13:54
There are many ways to protect the flag owner... It does require of cooperative tactics and trained coms between atackers. But I think that defenders do need the same to track the flagman.
Morchaoron
Nov 20 2001, 14:38
Respawn camping = bad and spoils all fun
Satcheling flags.... hmmm its by the rules... but i think it should be changed (not being able to satchel the area near the flag in a 50 meter radius or something like that)
I mean come on.... 5 people hiding in bushes waiting to detonate their bombs at their flag is nonsense.
Thats my opinion
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Corporal Ice on 12:52 pm on Nov. 20, 2001
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from RN Malboeuf on 7:28 am on Nov. 20, 2001
yea ok then why is CTF the mos played?
and even if that guy runs and hides you can actually still track him down
thats tactics baby YA!
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I think people likes CTF cause it´s a good blend between co-op and individual game types.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
well, I think (!) that most people do liek CTF because they dont have to use their brain and following strict orders...
ctf is NOT realistic and thats why it should removed from ofp.
When im on the field i CANNOT respawn when i die - so why ctf? ctf were made to make ofp popular to the WRONG people.
to be honest there are enough ctf adoptions out there so keep ofp free from this s**t and enhance REAL battles between teams. remove jumpin objects and so on instead adding stupid types as CTF.
CTF causes DEATHMATCH (history proves!)
or in other words how many soldiers do YOU know which do play CTF and being disciplined creative brave soldiers in the same?! right they dont exist.
kick CTF
Simon
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from RN Malboeuf on 4:01 pm on Nov. 20, 2001
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Lange
before talking bulls**t think first
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sorry you have not played OFP enough then yo know how it's done, any player can be track and trianglulated when the Squad players have extensive Map and member location knowlage
with in moments of the flag captuer several members will begin traking, ***the stolen flag, they know thier location and other members location by communicating
Thus ruling each other out as a target
then that will leave the Flag Man, two - three members will track him and either cut him off or force him to fight so a sniper can get him
I have never lost a Flag's positions
if you know your stuff it's actually quite easy
Don't every say it's impossible because of 1 little fact I wont tell you about, you'll have to learn it for your self
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
NONSENSE!
áll you say is that you can track him down IF YOU KNOW where he is - LOL! kidding?!
AND HOW do you track him down WITHOUT known HIS position?! dont know what games you played before but ofp maps are d*amn large.
For EVERY Defense tyoe you showing me i can give an attack-type which would have success to fraud the game as i described some posts ago.
But the core is always the same.
IF THEY WANT to steal the flag AND to keep it hidden THEY will have success. dont expect recruits gamin, just expect vets playin which know how to dissapear!
im a bit dissapointed that you did not find the clue yourself well here it is: the best way to avoid those fraud is - well, it must not be neccessary that the flag is in your base when makin a point with the enemy flag.
and to the satchel discussion:
you can make a lot of modifications and rules to ctf. but there WILL ALWAYS be one who camps on the respawn point.
the only modification which would make sense would be automatic machineguns who are unbreakable (like TFC) this would at least guarantee save passage to respawned troops. well, just an idea. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Simon
Murda Inc
Nov 20 2001, 16:34
Mal is so selindulged it's funny. I think he's got to vbe the cockiest fag on these forums, and he's not all that good, I know better than him. lol get a life Mal, You treat this game like real life, it cracks me up, like if you were to win the game you'd think that you yourself has won a war. You take things to serious in this game my pathetic little friend, I don't see how you can have any fun playing if all your worried aobut is getting the most kills.
RN Malboeuf
Nov 20 2001, 21:17
ok you guys done yet?
you can track any one in OFP, every advanced player in OFP knows this
so I'll let you newbies get more and more mad at me as I keep killing you to the point you call me a cheater and then if your lucky some one will clue you in as how this done!
seya Flamers
RN is coming to the Radish server this whole week
Murda Inc
Nov 20 2001, 22:41
I'll talk to angry Radish I'm determined to make sure your lame ass doesn't ruin my fun http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif I'm glad to hear you're such an "expert" though and so advanced yet your brain is still stuck in "newbie" mode. When will you realise your 27 and there arwe more importnant things everyone notices you're a loser. so drop the BS.
RN Malboeuf
Nov 21 2001, 02:54
I thought you said would ignore my post?
one other thing do you remember me killing you in your Shika, you we Base raping then, and I killed you 3 other snipers who were basing Raping, tsk tsk
Corporal Ice
Nov 21 2001, 08:49
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Morchaoron on 5:38 pm on Nov. 20, 2001
Respawn camping = bad and spoils all fun
Satcheling flags.... hmmm its by the rules... but i think it should be changed (not being able to satchel the area near the flag in a 50 meter radius or something like that)
I mean come on.... 5 people hiding in bushes waiting to detonate their bombs at their flag is nonsense.
Thats my opinion
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I agree with that (5 people ..........) But there is a huge difference if there is only one man, and (important) that man actiates the bomb when he see the enemy (not when the message "flag taken" appears, cause that can be done from the other side of the map).
I have never made that in the respawn area, only in the vicinity of the flag. Cause other players can´t defend theirselves at the respawn area (can´t avoid the Satchell). But in the flag area it is possible. That is tactics.
Sure U will agree thisÇ: We have info of a convoy going thru a road. We hide and put a satchell. What´s the difference?.
I also ask for the ability of enemies to deactivate my satchells, but BI doesn´t do anything...
Corporal Ice
Nov 21 2001, 08:54
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Lange on 5:57 pm on Nov. 20, 2001
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Corporal Ice on 12:52 pm on Nov. 20, 2001
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from RN Malboeuf on 7:28 am on Nov. 20, 2001
yea ok then why is CTF the mos played?
and even if that guy runs and hides you can actually still track him down
thats tactics baby YA!
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I think people likes CTF cause it´s a good blend between co-op and individual game types.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
well, I think (!) that most people do liek CTF because they dont have to use their brain and following strict orders...
ctf is NOT realistic and thats why it should removed from ofp.
When im on the field i CANNOT respawn when i die - so why ctf? ctf were made to make ofp popular to the WRONG people.
to be honest there are enough ctf adoptions out there so keep ofp free from this s**t and enhance REAL battles between teams. remove jumpin objects and so on instead adding stupid types as CTF.
CTF causes DEATHMATCH (history proves!)
or in other words how many soldiers do YOU know which do play CTF and being disciplined creative brave soldiers in the same?! right they dont exist.
kick CTF
Simon
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yeah, that´s true, but you must admit that they are too few "serious players" for this game (I not mean they are in others), and CTF at least gives newbies (tactic newbies i mean, not OPF newbies) some kind of mission objective. CTF can force them to defend....
newbies, gamers, vets, serous gamers..what ever.
nobody wins if game is played like this.
ctf...tanks sitting at enemy spawn and killing everyone, since nobody spawns with laws its pretty effective...also, satchles by flags will take care of anyone who escapes the tank.
tdm...kill 1 (one) enemy, then run away with your buddies, run for half an hour to a thick forest really far far away..sit there and wait for the time to end, the enemy has nobody to kill and will lose since you had that one kill in the beginning...id like to see anyone track you down if you dont fire your weapons.
king of the hill games...skip the zone, go for respawn, prevent the ones in the zone from getting new people from spawn...of course, put a sniper far outside the zone and let him pick the zoners one by one and send them to respawn-####
most effective and least skill demanding is that tdm tactic, but then again...a satchel by the flag and the trigger person in a forest far away, waiting for "xxx picked up flag" message is not skill either.
for the sake of gameplay and fairplay..i propose that satchels by flags is seen as glitching/cheating..or atleast immoral method of playing....untill we get a possibility of de-activating the satchels.
since a satchels doesnt blow up a other satchel..5 guys CAN go and put one satchel each at the flag, and then take turns on blowing up the enemy as they try getting the flag...these 5 guys doesnt have to be at the flag watching it, they could aswell be at enemy base pondering how to get the enemy flag that is "defended" in a similiar way.
Lange, RN Malboeuf
you both striking me as serious tactical minded gamers yet you argue tsk tsk tsk
Given this a CTF topic the thing that springs from it (at least for some of us) is a need for tactical/squad oriented missions. Luckily, "CONQUEST" team is back in business and although they say it'll take months to deliver there is a strong hope for quite a different types of missions (including such as "Welcome To Everon" betas and "Territory fights"). What is probably missing is common place to gather for players/squads who would like to play such missions against eachother. We're thinking about a project STRATAC (working name for startegy&tactics league/tourney/site/community/whatevercommonplace). In the past there wasn't much support for such idea. I wonder are demand and ppl wiling to do it together now there?
RN Malboeuf
Nov 21 2001, 13:02
at the The Rumble.com we're comming up with AD missions that require large amounts of Tactical operations, you just cant run in and shoot any more
we'll have missions that are so advanced that you can chose where you want to attack from, different locations can be selected and yet still use the same map for 10 diffrent things
using the same mission file that can be set to night or day depending on the attackers mood (neat little trigger)
If I can be as bold as to sum up.
Three problems with the CTF matches:
* There is no defence against satchel charges. One should be able to blast it or something without entering its killzone. When firing on it, it should either blow up or be rendered dud.
The reason it can be considered a game-killer is because you have to break the trance of being a soldier and face the reality that it is a game with shortcomings that are being exploited to effectively bar the flow of the game.
* The flag return countdown should keep counting as long as no enemy carries it.
* A real sniper would have to account for bullett flight time. Any man fearing a sniper should only have to zig zag to avoid him. You're still a target when lowering the flag, but that should be accepted as a "critical moment".
unholy chosen one
Nov 21 2001, 14:13
the way i see it they are saying you have no right to defend your flag in anyway shape or form until it is taken. thats crap. if i had tripmines claymoresor any other form of command or remote detonated devices i will use them. the whole point is to cap the enemies flag and protect your own....at all cost save altering the game code to give you an unfair advantage. spawn raping is a little more sensitive
issue. however if we look at this in a purely militaristic light ,it is every soldiers job to push the enemy back as far as possible right to his point of origin and then anihilate him. spawn rape amounts to using a blocking tactic
to keep him from resupplying and reinforcing or moreover
killing him at the source. that is why the usa is in afghanistan attempting to stop terrorism at the source(oh god please dont turn this into a political bash im just trying to prove a point) the real question is in the game is
spawn/base rape fair? fair maybe but not always fun , well not for the victims anyway. when i play or host i try to get an idea of how everyone playing feels in that regard and let the majority rule. most people are willing to go with a vote and basically stick to it.
basically, I think that the problem here lies not so much in the game, but in the lack of quality CTF maps available...almost all of the complaints could be addressed by the mission itself. However...it seems that although the community continues to pour out tons of single player missions...very few really good CTF missions are available...hopefully someone will step up to the challenge and provide us with some quality work...looks like therumble.com post above is a step in the right direction! I look forward to checking out those new maps! Please post when they are available.
RN Malboeuf
Nov 21 2001, 16:37
the Rumble is working on CTFs too, not like the shit CTF maps made by ofpleague.com where they are 1 sided or to borring to play (OFP3 CTF is fun but still one sided for the EAST)
We're taking our time and will be testing with in a week, each squad at the Rumble is contributing in it's own way
RN has 8 AD mission almost ready and 1 CTF
we know we'll be using the Winter Addons as well
Getting back to the Sachel Charges, if you say there is now whay to get past them you wrong, it's all in the tactics, you have just not tried combined force tactic in any way.
The Days of a 1 man Flag man running to grab the flag while no one is looking is OVER
OFP RULES!
Getting back to the Sachel Charges, if you say there is now whay to get past them you wrong, it's all in the tactics, you have just not tried combined force tactic in any way.
The Days of a 1 man Flag man running to grab the flag while no one is looking is OVER
ahah..but if it is a 8 on 8 game then?
and all 8 players of a team puts a satchel each on the flag and goes away?
since a satchel does NOT detonate a other satchel..even if the enemy was lucky enough to get in with a full 8 man team it would NOT be enough to get the flag.
all your team has to do is to take turns in blowing the satchel at the flag.
but if one could deactivate the satchels, or just shoot to blow them up, then we would talk about REAL tactics....i can believe you dont see the problem at hand with using satchels to guard flags.
Clapper
Nov 21 2001, 20:57
I can solve this one:
Send 2 guys in for the flag. 1 goes for the flag the other keeps a lookout (relatively far away). Now if the first player gets blown to smithereens by a satchel, the lookout can see if the enemy goes to plant another one. At this time the lookout can blow the enemy to bits before they can set a satchel.
Teamwork will always win. Ok, most of the time http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
ether you remove CTF
OR
you modify CTF:
that its possible to make a point without havin the flag in your base!
to secure the respawn area (automatic guns or mines with friend/foe recognition.
so its not possible to plant boobytraps or satchels at flags!
but to be honest i prefer to remove ctf completly.
spend some concentration on team vs team WITHOUT respawn.
respawn should be removed as well as ctf.
or rename the game to the unbreakables http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Simon
NoFragsBoy
Nov 21 2001, 23:40
If you people dont like ctf but think opf is not team based enough then make a clan
you can have ranks withen the clan have an agreement to obey higher ramking officers commands ect you will kick ass and it solves your problem of everyone running of to sniper
if all the tactical thinking people did this then the opf would extremily envolving almost like single player but better
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from NoFragsBoy on 2:40 am on Nov. 22, 2001
If you people dont like ctf but think opf is not team based enough then make a clan
you can have ranks withen the clan have an agreement to obey higher ramking officers commands ect you will kick ass and it solves your problem of everyone running of to sniper
if all the tactical thinking people did this then the opf would extremily envolving almost like single player but better[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
blablablabla
the 24376248952894th suggestion to found a clan....
we talk about basics, not about founding a clan.
a clan would not solve basic problems by ofp especially ctf problems
please read first
Simon
NoFragsBoy
Nov 22 2001, 00:18
or you could stop bieng gay and take some time to think about it your self mofo fish eater
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Clapper on 11:57 pm on Nov. 21, 2001
I can solve this one:
Send 2 guys in for the flag. ***1 goes for the flag the other keeps a lookout (relatively far away). ***Now if the first player gets blown to smithereens by a satchel, the lookout can see if the enemy goes to plant another one. ***At this time the lookout can blow the enemy to bits before they can set a satchel.
Teamwork will always win. ***Ok, most of the time http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
but what if 2 or more guys planted there satchels at the flag?
if one blows the other remains....
RN Malboeuf
Nov 22 2001, 12:26
Deal with it, thats WHAT TACTICS ARE ALL ABOUT, you over run the compound with your men and TAKE the Flag
in real life you think you would just SEE all the C4 Charges or boobie Traps?
I have yet to see 8 Satchels sorround a god Dam Flag
get off it
if you dont like CTF dont play it
if you cant get the flag get a new job in OFP and let a better player get it
and sugesting to just get RID of CTF is one of the stupidest statements I've heard in a LONG time!
BOOBIE Traps
DEAL With IT
Malboeuf.
tactics are for me to set up a defence and with ambushses (or otherwise) kill the enemy, to sit in a bush and watch over the flag and shoot the enemy as he tries to get it.
you have never seen 8 satchels at the flag?..are you saying it is not possible?, are you saying it would be immoral?..camping?, cheatin?..or a valid tactic.
if it is a tactic, tell me what tactic the attacker would use to get the flag?
in real life, you can disable the bombs, in real life a bomb would detonate the others, but this is not real is it?
i can gather a team of 8 guys, we plant a satchel each on the flag and take a hike, hide in the forest maybe.
what tactic would you use to get the flag?
all your 8 guys go for the flag and get killed one after the other?
1 guy goes repeatedly and the 7 remaining watch over the flag so the enemy doesnt plant new satchels?
sounds all fine, but just how realistic you think it is for the 7 who are far from there own respawn to stop a enemy of who respawn nearby?
after the 7 who watch the flag so it wont get mined again died you have 8 mines on it again, and have to repeat the process.
i want you to tell me, you who are a master of tactics apparently, which tactic would be good to get the flag and still be realistic enough to be a possible tactic.
i want ctf to be fun, half the fun is to fight your way into a town killing the defenders, if i find a satchel at the flag i will not go near it, nor will anyone else, so its going to be a deathmatch, something that is boring as its not about tactics as much as ctf.
when both teams make getting the flag impossible using satchels it aint ctf aymore, it is deathmatch.
on my server, if that tactic is used the user will get a warning and a recommendation not to use the tactic, if the satchel remains the user gets punted.
ctf is supposed to capture the flag, not deathmatch.
Corporal Ice
Nov 22 2001, 14:11
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Pete on 8:41 pm on Nov. 21, 2001
Getting back to the Sachel Charges, if you say there is now whay to get past them you wrong, it's all in the tactics, you have just not tried combined force tactic in any way.
The Days of a 1 man Flag man running to grab the flag while no one is looking is OVER
ahah..but if it is a 8 on 8 game then?
and all 8 players of a team puts a satchel each on the flag and goes away?
since a satchel does NOT detonate a other satchel..even if the enemy was lucky enough to get in with a full 8 man team it would NOT be enough to get the flag.
all your team has to do is to take turns in blowing the satchel at the flag.
but if one could deactivate the satchels, or just shoot to blow them up, then we would talk about REAL tactics....i can believe you dont see the problem at hand with using satchels to guard flags.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
s**t!. That would be improper use of a tactic.
You don´t put 8 snipers guarding the flag. Why 8 satchells?
I also said that getting away is not Fair play. You have to stay there!.
I know almost every tactic can be called "cheating" if we miss the right point of view.
Corporal Ice
Nov 22 2001, 14:19
The difference between use and abuse:
Don´t try explain that something is cheating changing the situation for an abuse of the situation. Let´s see, f**king with a girlfriend is nice, but f**king with lots of girlfriends is cheating. Am I right?
So please, let´s concentrate in the right situation:
- 1 satchell
- 1 guardian.
- Activation way: U see him with your own eyes.
That´s the situation to judge. If we judge an abuse of that situation it is easy to say that is not fair.
May somebody tell my a situation that wouldn´t become cheating if we abuse of it?
Corporal Ice
Nov 22 2001, 14:21
Excuse me, I forgot:
I´m not trying to make a rule for this. CTF players must feel it. If we need any kind of rule to know that putting millions of satchells at the flag is not fair the problem will be with us, not the satchells.
dazmorg
Nov 22 2001, 21:34
I've never seen that satchel idea used, but it sounds good, I'll try it.
Alls fair game except camping at a respawn point. There is no excuse for that, it completely spoils the game.
Corporal Ice
Nov 22 2001, 22:00
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from dazmorg on 12:34 am on Nov. 23, 2001
I've never seen that satchel idea used, but it sounds good, I'll try it.
Alls fair game except camping at a respawn point. There is no excuse for that, it completely spoils the game.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If you want to joke to the other players you can tell him (All-players Channel) something like that:
- "Do not touch the flag, it hurts.".
Then, when the players takes the flag wait until the flag is down (This makes it harder for the other player...) and activate the satchell. Then:
- " I told you".
This is the way that I use, and it´s usually funny for all the players.
Will the next person to support satchel charges near the flag please either answer Pete's mail?
A tactic with no countertactic is not playable.
And if you believe his description of the situation is extreme, you are accepting the point that such tactics used in the extreme should be frowned upon.
I believe that a satchel charge placed on a flag is to despicably take advantage of a definite shortcoming of the game. If you could blow it up with a hand grenade or something, then I would have absolutely no problem with it.
It is as valid a tactic as placing a secret trigger on a your CTF map that sets AllowDamage=0 on any unit that enters. Yeah, I know it has been removed, but I consider the two tactics equally "valid". Once is fun, base your gameplay on it, and the match is ruined, and not because you are any good.
corp ice:
how would i know you were there watching me as i tried to get the flag?
you will see the message "XXXX has nato flag", that is all you need, perhaps you are no where near the place.
it is about morals, you might have enough of it to stay and watch, but i wouldnt know it..for me its impossible to know and if i had seen you id killed you.
so it is fair for me to assume you werent even near satchel.
why is 8 satchels unfair when one satchel is not?
8 snipers could be located and killed, they have to be within visible distance from the flag, the satchel users could be miles away...impossible to find.
the snipers could miss, specially when i put a smokescreen, or have a bmp between me and the sniper(s) covering me while i get the flag.
against snipers i could use tactics
but against satchels?....
we could if you guys want, gather 16 players, all put a satchel each on the flag, me and my team of 7 players simply walk away, you and your 7 players try to get our flag.
you know its impossible.
we could of course say that we "saw" you try to get the flag and blew up a satchel...would you trust us?
why allow only one satchel?..what is the point?
is it tactics to force the enemy to make a suicide to get that flag?
fine, maybe it is...but why?
what is the reason you think putting a unbeatable deathtrap on the flag?...on a road, fine, the enemy might pass it and you can blow it, but the flag?..the enemy HAS to get it and you will get that message saying they took it, just press the trigger and boom.
its like saying that you can cheat on your girlfriend once, it is alright..but not twice, and specially not 8 times or more.
Hab:
you have a solution, just too bad it doesnt work anymore, but if it would it would also allow a other type of cheating.
if the area by the flag doesnt allow me toget damaged, well thats where id set my camp and fire at the enemy.
a tactic with no countertactic makes the game unplayable, cheating/glitching is wrong even if you only do it once.
i suggest you will not use that "tactic" and play the game like a sportsman and be fair.
if i see a satchel by the flag,i as i said will just start playing deathmatch instead...i wont sacrifice myself to please some idiot on the opposing team who knows nothing about fair play and might put another satchel on the flag before i respawn and get back.
(Edited by Pete at 1:46 pm on Nov. 23, 2001)
RN Malboeuf
Nov 23 2001, 11:10
Saching a Flag is GOOD Tactics
boot TEAMs can do this
Getting by a Sach is EASY
stop thinking in 1 man tactics and USE TEAM tactics
tell you when I get home off the road i'll email you and bring my RN and will take your flag no matter how many saches you use
other wise Newbies just because YOU cant do it does not mean you have to demand that no one uses Sachels!
newbies? http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
you dont know how much i played this game my friend, or how good i am at it.
i KNOW how it "could" be done theoretically, not by using "outstanding team tactics"..its by repeated suicides and sacrifices.
i can gather a gang of 8 NEWBIES and when we put 8 satchels on that flag it will be near impossible for you to get it.
well...other than suicides will make it impossible..
it works..sure it does, is it a tactic?...it could be called that, but it aint.
its "the only method", meaning that when we plant 8 satchels we WILL get 8 kills.
and after those 8 deaths and you bring the flag home...we can have 8 guys ambushing him (and who ever goes with him) and saving the flag.
getting by a satchel is IMPOSSIBLE..who are you trying to kid?..me or your own ego?
you can however with dedicated suicide runs get that flag, after 8 deaths...but it aint a tactic in my opinion my friend, it is not even fun....and if that is your opinion of TEAM TACTIC....i hope you never get to be a leading officer in any army.
RN Malboeuf
Nov 23 2001, 12:25
read you own tag and take your own advise
it's so easy t over run you compund if your all hiding
as soon as a trooper is dead the Switch he has no longer works
this means that with a few kills and a few suicides we'll get the Flag with in minutes
Face it you defeated your own argument by say it's possible
I can garuntee you that I'll have the flag with in 10 mins regard less of sach and snipers
any one who knows me when i play knows i can do it by my self and not even need help
so when my whole squad comes into help to kill little newbies sitting on a sach switch wont save your flag
by saying it can't be done makes any one a newbie
any thing can be done if you have better tactics
I'll say it again with the thousands of CTFs I've played i have never seen 8 Saches on a flag
i've seen 3 or 4 but only 1 or two players have set them
never have I even seen 3 ppl set three saches
no one does it
no one likes to sit and not fight
thats why only 1 or two men stay half the time to defend
Shit half the time I never seen any defenders
Newbies complaining about tactics is FunnY
"you shot me in the back you camper" lol
(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 12:39 pm on Nov. 23, 2001)
ok...now ill show you a simple thing.
8 satchels at flag.
8 guys with triggers.
you let one of your guys go for the flag, BOOM.
one of our guys pulled that trigger..now he has no reason to hide, he comes from his hide and sets in a position to fire the next suicide flagrunner....he kills one, then he dies, but he saved 1 satchel from being used.
you have 2 guys down, 3:rd one goes for flag. BOOM
another guy triggers his bomb, then he and the newly respawned guy both go guard the flag with there normal weapons asthey no longer have triggers, you may kill them, but sooner or later (since its there base and respawn is closer) they will get atleast one of you.
you have 4 guys down..the ones killed are on their way back, but its a long distance.
a 5:th guy goes for the flag. BOOM.
we still have 5 satchels on that flag, and now we have 3 soldiers without triggers who can fight to defend the flag...they get you guys sooner or later.
your previously dead guys arrive, but this time we have satchels by the flags (if you managed to stop us from adding satchels we have only 5, if you failed we have 8) and 3 men at base defending it.
the more satchels you blow by going for the flag, the more of us will be in the base throwing you out, and i quarantee that we WILL throw you out and add new satchels before we blow the last satchel.
its tactics...sure, i agree, but there is no countertactic to it.
with the thousands of ctf's you played you never seen 8 satchels?..so what, would it be a bad plan to do so? would it be hard to do?..its a good tactic according to you.
being a master of tactics you dont really think far, you assume the triggermen who used up the satchels will stay hidden...
why i use the example of 8 satchels?
cos its the optimal defence, not losing is a good start if you want to win.
and also if you (the opposing team) use the same tactic, why would i even bother trying something that is pretty much impossible, i would not even try to get your flag.
RN Malboeuf
Nov 23 2001, 13:18
as soon as your guy gets up too set another satch he'll be killed by a member of our squad
your still thinking only one man will get the flag
think in SQUAD terms
any action you post I'll have a counter tactic
no amount of Saches will stop ***experianced players from gettin your flag
as soon as we have men at your base they will cover the flag just as your men are
that means we next start causing distractions
and two more players get ready to get the flag
1 man gets it and trieds to run
he runs behind a house if ones close, but he runs moving the flag farther away from the post
you set off a sach
he dies, the next man has a easier time getting the flag since the saches are a little farther way (this happens when the sach holder can't see the flag and is not 100% ready to blow it)
since some of your men are dead and other used thier saches (it's pretty hard to make sure you men don't blow a sach at the same time) will allow a man to sneak out with the flag
Give it up
getting a Flag is easy when covered by 8 saches
#### it's actually harder to get the flag when TWO snipers cover the flag every single moment with out saches
LETS BAN SNIPERS FROM DEFENDING THE FLAG
no wait THIER CAMPING ON THIER FLAG WITH SNIPER RIFFLES WAAAAAAAAA
Tactics man Tactics!!!!!!!
(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 12:40 pm on Nov. 23, 2001)
Well, you said you would be able to get it yourself without help.
Just for arguments sake. Say that Pete and I were playing you CTF.
How would you break the cycle.
* You come to our base. Nobody there.
* You take the flag, boom!
* By the time you respawn and make any significant progress towards the base, a new charge has been set.
How can you possibly break that cycle? Stop answering by just saying "Because I am SOOO good!". Still you can't disarm it, still you can't prevent the has-flag-message, still you can't prevent us reading the "has-flag message".
Only way I can think of is if you kill us both when our only interest is not to be seen. We are talking veteran mode, of course so you cant just scroll the gunsights over the horizon and hope for a help text. My position will of course be somewhere that allows Pete to place a new charge and Vice versa.
And if we also take into account the possibility that the second time you get there the flag is G-O-N-E. And we have taken it and are running full speed away from your base. You cannot possibly catch up unless you throw every caution to the wind and be running sniper bait. And if you DO attempt to catch up, the one of us left in the playing area will start taking the flag.
Now, as we have laid out a "tactic" for everyone to see that any newbie can perform, I'd like for you, being the master of tactics, to produce the counter tactics which would enable you to get our flag in 10 minutes. With and without fleeing with the flag.
So far, the only tactic I have seen from you, is the one from poker that rhymes with "rough", "enough" and "trough".
as soon as we have men at your base they will cover the flag just as your men are
that means we next start causing distractions
the more satchels we blow the more men we have available...
one can cover the flag, if he fails we still have a satchel, the rest can freely clear the town..of course since it is THERE base they respawn closer, meaning they can afford losses and you cant, all they need to do is to clear the town.
what you need to do is to clear the town and make suicides to blow the satchels, your losses favour the defence, it takes longer time for you to get back than for the defender.
the satchel can be blown as soon the flag moves downwards, meaning your guy never gets it and neves gets to move it away.
a triggerman can be hundreds of meters away just watching for that flag to move while prone in a bush, near impossible to see from that distance since he doesnt move.
its easy to make sure what order to blow satchels, very easy, its just to say "hey, ill blow the next one, ok?", its just taking turns.
you would not be able to defend the flag from being mined, we can throw smoke and mine it, you wont see us in there, you will not see a "XXX mined the flag" message, you will not see the flag move.
but you, even if you smoke cant get the flag, we will see the flag go down (cos the smoke doesnt reach high up), and if we fail to see that we still get the warning.
you simply cant break the cycle.
we can have 2 guys at visible distance of the flag, and the rest hiding further away, those 2 can blow up the satchels as soon the flag goes downwards....who cares if your occupying the base, its worth nothing for you...tactically seen.
every "countertactic" you provide just strenghtens my belief that satchels are a impossible to beat defence, its simply not possible for you to get it as long my team has some disipline with blowing and laying the satchels.
everything favours the defender..nothing the attacker.
suprise?..bs, we get that message when you the flag.
succesful attack and townclearing?..bs, we still have satchels at the flag and a long time clearing you out.
guarding the flag from more mines to be put? well, the defender can smoke the area and walk in and mine, you cant do the same cos as soon you touch the flag uyou blow up.
why dont you just admit that im right?
you said it yourself that you never lost a flag you guarded, and now you assume that 8 guys with your "tactics" using satchels would do any worse?
RN Malboeuf
Nov 23 2001, 15:38
>>>>Well, you said you would be able to get it yourself without help. Just for arguments sake. Say that Pete and I were playing you CTF
1 vs Two men sitting on satch does not have a cycle too break
again your asuming I would run for the Flag 1st lol
TACTICS man Tactics, get this 1 flag man idea out of your heads and you'll understand
I can get the flag on my own because i can do several things at once, I'm in no way single minded
once you have the other squad overrunning your base, regardless or not if you saches your about to lose
keeping that many men back with out an offense leads to defeat
>>>the more satchels we blow the more men we have available...
yes as do we, but right off the bat your loosing ground on having saches at the flag we wont give you time to place any more if you plan on to keep using Saches
in the end it's back to CTF and the Saches were defeated
>>>>what you need to do is to clear the town and make suicides to blow the satchels, your losses favour the defence, it takes longer time for you to get back than for the defender
does not matter since we'll have a man watching the Flag at all times after the initial adavance to kill guys trying to sach
we'll actualy let a man set a satch and then kill him so the sach can no longer be used
>>>>a triggerman can be hundreds of meters away just watching for that flag to move while prone in a bush, near impossible to see from that distance since he doesnt move
he has only one trigger and can do this once, loss of one man to us nbd
>>>>its easy to make sure what order to blow satchels, very easy, its just to say "hey, ill blow the next one, ok?", its just taking turns
can be done but when 8 men are in combat it's rarley done unless, relying on this will lead to a misfire or setting off of one or more saches because nobody is quite sure who should tet thiers off, only highly organized squads can pull this off, plus you miss the fact that there is a range on this and the men can be found in time during the battle
No one sits in a single spot for a hour long CTF, it's just to boring having 8 men do it will never happen
>>>>you would not be able to defend the flag from being mined, we can throw smoke and mine it, you wont see us in there, you will not see a "XXX mined the flag" message, you will not see the flag move.
HKs or full auto Ak74 will defeat smoke as well as a LAW, RGP, thowing smoke will makes actually fire into ***when it's at the Flag, all so at this time one of our men can do a kwik steal
>>>>but you, even if you smoke cant get the flag, we will see the flag go down (cos the smoke doesnt reach high up), and if we fail to see that we still get the warning
You'll never see me use smoke at flag in the CTF unless I'm about to trick you into setting off Saches or wait till one of your men shows him self so he can get a better look (thats when he dies)
>>>>>you simply cant break the cycle
I broke it now what 6 times
Once again, Once we have men on the scene you wont beable to reset saches, we'll kill any of your men at the flag pole just as he bends down or after he sets the satch
>>>>>every "countertactic" you provide just strenghtens my belief that satchels are a impossible to beat defence, its simply not possible for you to get it as long my team has some disipline with blowing and laying the satchels.
you can't do it but I can, any member of my squad can, must be just you
>>>>everything favours the defender..nothing the attacker
actually your right on this, but as soon as WE control the area you'll be the attacker trying to get your flag base back
(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 12:44 pm on Nov. 23, 2001)
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from RN Malboeuf on 4:18 pm on Nov. 23, 2001
Give it up
getting a Flag is easy when covered by 8 saches
#### it's actually harder to get the flag when TWO snipers cover the flag every single moment with out saches
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
HOW??
a sniper will need a line of fire, that means you can pinpoint his position after he has fired once, you can look at the body and see where he could have been shot from, you also hear the sound of the sniper shooting.
and the sniper might miss, he NEEDS to be good to be succesfull.
you can blind him with smoke, you can search and find him with ease, and you can kill him.
same goes if there is 2 of them.
but a satchel?..or 8 satchels?
hey, what if the snipers also had satchels just incase they miss you make some smart tactical move and get the flag with a bmp under a smokescreen?
your still to provide a working "REALISTIC" tactic that actually works...
RN Malboeuf
Nov 23 2001, 15:51
>>>>you can blind him with smoke, you can search and find him with ease, and you can kill him. same goes if there is 2 of them.
bingo you just helped in defeating your own agument
and 8 men will actually be easier to find and kill then comparied to two sachel/sniper men
Once again I'll say it again, in the thousands of CTF I've played no one team has used more then 3 men for setting Saches
you'll never see it, no one will play with 8 men defending thier flag on a 8 vs 8
these ppl want to play
not sit in a bush and protect thier flag when 7 other guys are protecting
who will get the enemy flag?
you need one to win
it's never happen, saying it can happen before it happens, does not mean it will happen, nobody plays like that
you wont find a single squad that will use such a poor tactic since they all know it just does not work
once again you have no proof that using 8 saches will 100% stop serveral flag men
there are too many varibles, and no cycle to break, it's not a cycle as soon as we have a man cover you flag to prevent more saches
like i said 10 mins till a flag capture no matter how man men you have on sach duty, as soon as we engage your base you'll have less and less saches to use
and there are a few tricks you would never have thoght off http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
just think about using Direct Speaking
not every CTF has a Flag Caputer sound or alarm http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I'll let you think about that one, lol, I've used it so many times now, and left it for last just to see how you'll get by that one
(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 12:58 pm on Nov. 23, 2001)
malboeuf, ur comical http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
sure you can shoot thru the smoke, but you cant see thru it..right?
are you going to keep shooting at the smoke all the time or just randomly (giving up your position and get shot cos of that too)?
i am not thinking of one man tactics, i think of you coming in there with the whole team if you want, but we still have as many satchels as you have men...and a satchel blows up faster than the flag comes down, i cant understand where you get the idea that you can get the flag and then even run away with it before it blows...
you can "control the town with the flag", but what exactly are you controlling?
a flag with lots of satchels, who ever touches it dies, and for everyone who dies one of my guys shows up, you assume also that your guys will not die at all when my guys shoot at them?
you use other kinds of cheats?
also, if you need a "highly organiced" team to pull of a simple "taking turns in blowing satchels"...im sure you have never even been in a team, something like this you can do with people you dont know..just simple communication "AAA blows up the first one when they touch it, then BBB blows up his bomb if they touch it again...ok?"
your a comedy, and your ego is extreme..you either never actually did play the game at all, or you actually do think you could pull something like this off...you think that when for example i have used my satchel (and other of my men still have them) id get slaughtered by your men and never get to kill one of you?
if i kill one of you, i win more than if you kill me ten times, i clear the base, you lose men at the base..your defence of your base gets worse, and for every man i kill from you despite me dying a lot in it you have harder to kill me simply cos you have less men, sooner or later me and whoever is with me will overtake the base again and set new bombs.
but ur too "proud" to admit your wrong, so i give up this discussion...your one of those people who would claim the earth is flat no matter what evidence was brought to you, once you set your mind its impossible to change it, and i give up now.
happy playing in the future...perhaps someday we play in the same place and i show you how hard it can be.
one last thing.
bingo you just helped in defeating you own agument
and 8 men will actually be easy to find and kill then comparied to two sachel/sniper men
HOW?http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gifhttp://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
please explain your logic behind this.
(Edited by Pete at 7:01 pm on Nov. 23, 2001)
RN Malboeuf
Nov 23 2001, 16:00
you said i cant find 8 men hidding, but that you can find two snipers hiding
it's the same thing
8 men will be easier to find then 2 since sooner or later you'll just walk across one or he'll have to shoot giving his POS away
i said snipers are easy to locate once they fire, a sniper not firing is no good defender is he?
you locate by sound, and simply looking at the enviroment and possible places he could be at.
easy.
the men hiding?, they could be anywhere, they are going to stand in a group, they not going to make noise by firing...
and even if you would stumble across them chances are that they will shoot you first, and then find a new place.
(looks like i just cant get off this silly thread)
RN Malboeuf
Nov 23 2001, 16:06
you start lossing the argument and you resort to flames
I don't think you get it
by saying that you can always resach the flag and never beable NOT to you are saying your better
What makes you so sure YOU"RE good enough to beable to resach?
I know any player that thinks your going to keep resaching will just snipe your flag effectly stopping the resaching
you can't beat this point and and lost by resorting to Flaming
Come Back when you have the balls to say sorry, untill then
Saches in CTF will remain a valid tactic
using 8 saches is still a poor easily defeated tactic
RN Malboeuf
Nov 23 2001, 16:11
>>>>i said snipers are easy to locate once they fire, a sniper not firing is no good defender is he?
Funny I have killed allot of snipers just sitting scaning, and simply found them 1st, the same will go for most defenders around the flag, as soon as wee see him we'll drop him, killing one of the saches
if you think your 7 other men will NOT move and see what the fight is about your wrong, some one will move and give thier POS away and Blam another sach gone
>>>> they could be anywhere, they not going to make noise by firing
not really you wont find 8 players any where that will just sit and not fire and let the enmey take control of the flag base, by doing so efectily stops any resatchling
>>>>>and even if you would stumble across them chances are that they will shoot you first, and then find a new place.
what only my men will die? dont even think for a moment none of you men will die, as each one dies there is ONE less Sach to worry about
(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 1:24 pm on Nov. 23, 2001)
RN Malboeuf
Nov 23 2001, 16:17
>>>>>i am not thinking of one man tactics, i think of you coming in there with the whole team if you want, but we still have as many satchels as you have men...and a satchel blows up faster than the flag comes down, i cant understand where you get the idea that you can get the flag and then even run away with it before it blows...
I dont think you play this game much
Once the flag comes down it's DOWN
each time one of the flag man picks it up it moves farther and father out of range of the other saches
try it for your self
if none of you men see the flag and see the Message that some one has the flag he has to set it off, this takes just a second, but in that second my man has moves 1-10 feet from the pole
we dont have to go back to the pole, we go to the dead soldier
with 3 soldiers and cover fire and blocked vision using Tanks or smoke to make sure no one can see the ground at flag pole we'll work the flag out with just 2-3 lost men from saches
Face it Saches in no way stop ppl from getting the flag
(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 1:20 pm on Nov. 23, 2001)
ok..ill just stick to this thread cos of boredom.
now, lets assume we have 2 equally skilled teams.
one simply has to be near the flag, no message goes to the enemy of him being there, he just needs to plant a bomb.
the other has to get the flag, message goes to enemy of him being there, the flag is mined.
i say that with or without support that one getting the flag is dead.
with or without anyone seeing him, with or without smoke or armored support....he is dead.
the one who is to mine the flag simply needs to mine it, nothing else, he can use all kinds of tactics incl smoke and armored support....he can die, but you will have to see him to kill him.
it favours the miner (defender)..correct?
thats with or without a team, tactics work for both untill you have to grab the flag, then the attacker will not have use of a tactic, the one going for the flag is doomed, and so are anyone who goes after him.
the one who is to mine the flag can use tactics and diversions to mine the flag...correct?
all favours the miner/miners and nothing the flagrunner or his team.
now, sooner or later you need to get the flag, there is one bomb for all of your men, you cant avoid that, correct?
..you could avoid it, if you find the hiders with triggers, but they can be far away, the range for the trigger is several hundred meter, and the men with the triggers are armed and equally skilled, they can shoot your men if you get too close.
correct?
the chances of you finding my men are slim, my men dont move, your have to, everything favours the camper and everything is against the mover...correct?
you may want to flank the enemy, but do you know the location of the enemy you wnt to flank?...no, not untill you find them, and they will have the first shot advantage for reasons mentioned above......correct?
and finally, when you killed some triggermen (not likely you get all) and some satchels been blown up in defence of the flag you need to "control" the town with the flag, the defender has respawn closer and therefore superority in numbers, this favours the defender, correct?
...now, answer yes or no to those, and if no, id like to hear the reason.
then say the things that favours the attacker...
with "equally skilled men" the defender always wins, and with the satchels he prevents the enemy from getting the flag succesfully.
i have been in a df1-df2-df3 team, for years...we were among the top ctf teams (top 10), i know you cant win without a defence, you cant win without a offence either, but with a perfect defence you never lose, and im a league against a top team you can set in for only defence and try to get a enemy flag by opportunity instead of with a tactic...the defence makes sure you dont loose, the opportunities to get enemy flags might get you a point, or it might not...but you lose nothing with defence.
you have killed a lot of snipers by scanning, and im sure someone has killed you while your scanning too sometime, right?...sometimes it goes, sometimes not, defender and hider has a advantage...ALWAYS.
RN Malboeuf
Nov 23 2001, 18:52
you right but then thats where I counter with over running the base once again
So i loose 8 men trying to steal the flag, we'll have control of the base and can defended with ease if all your men are hiding
I still say three men can get the flag away if the miners can't see them actaully going for the flag and only rely on the Flag msg
after the 1st guy dies hes a few feet from the pole now, and then the next man grabs it from the dead soldier NOT THE POLE)
you next miner tips off his sach when he ses the next msg BUT the Flag man still was able to cary the flag father out of reach of the rest of the saches
are you following?
you men are hidded and will have no time to see what the enemy forces are doing
even more so if you flag is on town and most striaght lines are blocked by enemy armor
in fact by HIDING all you men with triggers you actually defeat your own tactic by them NOT being able to set off the bomb as fast as they would if they had the Flag in site, face it if you man is off in a bush and sees the msg he has to enable the USE command and scroll to the Set of Satch command wich in no way fast enough to drop the flag man RIGHT at the Pole
8 or more Saches will just not work, is a sad ***excuse for a tactic and is no way sound, I've all ready foun 8 easy ways to combat saches and have listed them
even by defending the flag some this makes your men open to getting shot and loosing thier triggers
face it, no matter what, saches do not 100% stop enemy from taking your Flag
By saying it does shows lack of tactical prowness
(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 4:10 pm on Nov. 23, 2001)
RN Malboeuf
Nov 23 2001, 18:55
>>>>>with "equally skilled men" the defender always wins,
Ever here of D Day?
>>>>>and with the satchels he prevents the enemy from getting the flag succesfully.
no it does not, sorry, I have not been able to a flag back no matter how many Saches were used
I was one of the 1st on NA to actually really start using Saches on flag pole, and I know if enemy are around it's pretty dam hard to resach the Flag
RN Malboeuf
Nov 23 2001, 19:08
to end this off, there is no way you can expect to provide 100% and Recycled Sach use
you would have to garentee your men with Triggers will never die
and you know what
you can't
men will die
when each man dies he leaves a whole open, when each sach is set off you leave a larger whole
and with enemy units not allowing you to resach your flag, you'll see that you started off in CTF with the wrong defensive tactic
and then you'll kick your self
this is not CS/SoF/UT
you can't really Camp on the Flags, it's not like they are down a long halway where you can easily defend that exit
we're in the open in OFP
expect any thing
expect me to come from your side and walk up behind your men
they will hear me but think I'm one of you
expect that
expect to lose if ou do nothing but sachel your flag with 7 other men
Sergeant Rock
Nov 23 2001, 19:19
In my opinion, there's only one way to settle this argument...both of you put your money where your mouth is:
-Pete and RN put together an 8 on 8 match and play out this scenario. ***
-Play best out of 3. ***
-Either man can bring a squad of his choosing. ***
-Match to be played on Radishville T-1.
-Play a CTF map decided on by mutual vote. ***
-Tiebreaking map vote goes to server admin (Angry Radish...up for this?)
-Need to figure out a way to get a few neutral spectators in....
The only way to know for sure is to cut through all this B.S and test the tactics in a "real" situation. ***Let's settle this argument once and for all!
P.S.: ***Is there a wager involved? ***Perhaps the loser must submit a "Post of Official Apology" ??
RN Malboeuf
Nov 23 2001, 19:23
I'll give you till Friday or Sat to up with 8 men that can play Fri or Sat night on a dedicated server in NA, and have them sach the #### out of the flag and my RN wont even practice for anti sach tactics for CTF
you have choice of maps, and team
the map must contain more then 3 Amored vehicles each side
I just need 1 flag capture to win, and dont need any more then 1 mission to play
and we'll simply prove it to you
me or my men can be contacted though my links or my emails and
<a href="http://www.roughnecks.org/ofp/squad.xml
" target="_blank">http://www.roughnecks.org/ofp/squad.xml
</a>
I'll also have three Elite other men at my disposal
now I'll warn you only once
RN main combat style is Silent DM
this means if you move, walk or breath a RN will kill you becasue he instanty knows where you POS is
We find CTF so easy with this style traing and only need 1 man to defend the flag with it
you see we can walk with out ANY one hearing us when we chose, and no this is not a cheat, and not crawling, it's pure OFP
be sure to get men ready, you have 1 week
we train and play every night on russins server in NA
Feel free to join and just play to see thier level of game play
I laugh at sach users Muuuhahahahahaha
(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 4:28 pm on Nov. 23, 2001)
serg rock is right.
but anyways, the thing is that even without satchels a flag can be really hard to get if defended, and defended with satchels it will be near impossible.
nothing is impossible tho, it can be done...but only by doing big sacrifices, a team can be expected to do that, but not a casual player on a public server.
i dont have a team in ofp, mostly cos ofp is unfit for a team to play in with some problems for online playing, but if id get 7 volunteers (anyone from the forum) i could play.
the ctf map has to have atleast 8 satchels (preferably more, to re-satcheling the flag).
volunteers, sign up on this thread http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
as sgt rock says, there is only one way to settle this. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
(malboeuf, no offence intented...i just cant understand how you say "it is EASY to get past satchels", a flag could not be better defended..you yourself said something in that direction earlier, and that nobody got a flag defended that way from you.)
(and youre very stubborn)
about d-day malboeuf, defender always is in favour, but when the attacker has much larger amount of soldiers and naval artillery and total airsuperirity....well, one can expect a defence to break down http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
server in NA?..not possible for me, lag would kill it for me, i live in sweden.
i have a good connection but ofp will lag enourmously on a american server.
I laugh at sach users Muuuhahahahahaha
me too, but somewhere during the argument i turned into a satchel defender and you satchel opponent..
i just have no idea how and when it happened http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
RN Malboeuf
Nov 23 2001, 19:37
we'll use a server on your end then I play with UK guys all the time and they get 200 ms off me
I'll find you men lol
>>>>>>>i dont have a team in ofp, mostly cos ofp is unfit for a team to play in with some problems for online playing
so after all this I now know why you thnk it can't be done, you don't play CTF much do you, had a few bad games and gave up on it... to bad really CTF is the most played game in NA
you have 1 week, I dont care if you play
actually...thats not the reason we (my df team) dont play ofp.
its the sudden disconnections and cos its impossible to rejoin the game after it started (if you get disconnected), in a organiced league play it will never be a succes, i know there are some ofp leagues, but it will never come to a high level as df is/was.
i prefer ctf of all gametypes, its the gametype where u best can use a good tactic to your advantage....
and i understand why you dont care if i dont play.
however, im convinced a group of who ever wants to join the match will be able to defend the flag easily.
volunteers wanted for the match
RN Malboeuf
Nov 23 2001, 19:44
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Pete on 4:34 pm on Nov. 23, 2001
I laugh at sach users Muuuhahahahahaha
me too, but somewhere during the argument i turned into a satchel defender and you satchel opponent..
i just have no idea how and when it happened http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I actually was one of the 1st in NA to use saches on Flags
It's very effective when used randomly
combined with sniping and guarding with tanks or laws and several other tactics i have never lost a Flag EVER while I have been on D
I have lost them in between deaths from stupid rookies that kill thier own sniper though !
I hate newbie TKer's
NEWBIE: "I thought you were the enemy"
Malboeuf [RN]: "hmm lets see I've been sitting here for 10 mins and you walked past me 3 times and NOW you shot me! yea Ooooo K"
RN Malboeuf
Nov 23 2001, 19:58
CTF works fine when you have the right server
I play 20- 50 CTF missions a night when I'm home and can hide from the GF
the guys on the Radish server play that many and then some!
I've played CTF and Squad matches for years in Free Space and Solder of Fortune
in soldier of Fortune I'm Ranked it the Top 5 killers on the net (Body Count) and #1 stolen Flag retriever, by that I mean I let the guy steal my flag and Then kill him, I never camped my own flag, never needed to.
Flag man steals my Flag I say:
"shhh be wery wery quiet, hunting wabits"
and then
"Wabit i have a Carot!"
and then when I sew the poor smuck
"kill da wabit, kill da wabit!"
then the guy dies and I say
"You wasically Wabit!"
and then basically every Newbie hates you beause they never every get the flag when BC is playing
Newbie: "you CAMPED YOU CAMPER"
Body Count: ***like um no i ran up behind you and pulled the tigger rookie!, you actually think I'm going to let you point your shot gun at me lol"
I love OFP it ROCKS BABY YA!
(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 5:00 pm on Nov. 23, 2001)
Murda Inc
Nov 23 2001, 23:02
Malbeuof tlaks alotta s**t, as you can see. He thinks I'm the newbie cuz I dont play 9 hours a day, lol. Mal when aill u see your not that good, as I have said you ain't s**t w/o your chopper. When I lpayed you after I blew up your chopper you got 3 kills. out of your 9 ttotal. Yea Yea EYa blah blah youlll say "we'll I lkead all those games, so I must be good" I think why people adont like your lame is because your too cocky. "I'm one of the top 5 killers" Who gives a s**t, your too lame, get a life.
50 ctf missions/night? http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
if a mission lasts 30 minutes then you play 25 hours/day
thats the normal amount of time, or 20 minutes, which would mean 1000 minutes, this equals to 16 hours each day, long nights you have http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
20 missions sounds better....30 minutes * 20 missions = 10 hours/day.
pretty hardcore...dont you think?
20 missions and 20 minute games means 6,6 hours
thats about the lenght of a night.
this is IF you get into a another ctf game immeadetly, my experience tells me its sometimes a long wait before a game starts cos you cant just join it after it started.
lets add 10 minutes of waiting to get into a game and we see impossible numbers.
10 minutes times 50 = 500 minutes, that is eight and a half hours, meaning if you play 50 games and 30 minutes per game and with 10 minute of waiting in between, selecting soldiers and players etc etc it means you play a amazing 33.5 hours/day!!!
10 minutes of waiting time and 20 games gives you 20*10 = 100 minutes, that is a additional 1,4 hours to add to your 20 minute gaming (6.6 hours)..a total of 8 hours/night of playing
now, you go to school (i quess).thats 8 hours of the day, eating and taking a bath will take another 1 hour, then your 8 hours of MINIMUM playing makes a total of 17 hours, this gives you 7 hours of sleep.
congratulations, you proved that you have no life at all.
you are avare that a day is only 24 hours, right?
(Edited by Pete at 1:18 pm on Nov. 24, 2001)
Morchaoron
Nov 24 2001, 11:42
The only things that bothers me is that you can't shoot satchels, and satchels can't destroy each other... http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
It could be done in other games I played, thats why I was rather suprised when I noticed they couldn't be destroyed.
Now this has little to do with tactics itself, (it may CHANGE tactics) but i would would simply make more sense if you could shoot satchels http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Sarge: look rookie!! the flag!!! lets get it
Rookie: WAIT SARGE!!! look!! theres a big bomb next to it!!
Sarge: ahh... no problem... shoot it!!
*rookie shoots the satchel with his M16*
Rookie: Not even a scratch sarge http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
Sarge: awwww no prob... I'll just use my LAW
*sarge fires a law*
Sarge: huh?http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif what??? aww well looks like you have ***going to be the bait rookie http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Ofcourse that example is stupid cuz is has no tactics etc, but... its the idea http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Thats my thought on it http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
The only things that bothers me is that you can't shoot satchels, and satchels can't destroy each other... http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
i agree 100%...i dont care much about the satchel itself, only that if the satchel is there someone WILL die, and since a satchel doesnt blow up a another satchel then 2-3 satchels means that 2-3 people WILL die....
Morchaoron
Nov 24 2001, 14:44
Making them destroyable wouldn't unbalance the game I think, it would simply make much more sense http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
If you want to use them effectively hide them in bushes, under vehicles or behind houses or whatever.
Everything in OFP can be destroyed!! vehicles, people, houses, trees, ammo crates... but satchels are invincible http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Its not that I don't like satchels, or I want to get rid of them or anything... its just that they are pretty silly the way they are now http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
(Edited by Morchaoron at 5:46 pm on Nov. 24, 2001)
RN Malboeuf
Nov 24 2001, 18:22
yea I play 50 CTFs the odd time
when I play
I play for 26 hours straight when I can hide from the GF
just ask AAT morgan lol
I was drinking (beer) 5 AM on moring after being up and playing for 26- hours
that was a whacked day
I ran into WiSdom the day after, and regarless of what the little boys says about me, he's mad because I'm all ways 1st place in the Radish server when I play
no wait I take that back I came in 2nd once
(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 4:24 pm on Nov. 24, 2001)
^ see how much s**t he talks? You should be aleast a better infantry soldier if your lame ass plays for 17hrs striaght. d*amn I bet he doesnt really have a GF if he plays that much, he just doesn't wanna look like that much of a loser.
BTW get on today, I wasn't playing good that day anyway. And in the mean time, get a life.
And between these forums and playing, you must have no job,life,GF,sex,time to pisss, shower. etc.
(Edited by WisdoM at 2:27 pm on Nov. 24, 2001)
RN Malboeuf
Nov 24 2001, 19:31
look at the little flamer
still pissed about me killing you in you shilka when you were spawn camping? I got 3 Snipers kills and your sad attemped at spawn camping, then I killed ya again on the walk to your base
it was funny, you were running along the rigde line in plain view with out a care in the world and pow 1 klick shot dropped you with a AK74 (before you say it's not possible play OFP at 1600x1200 res with a higherend mouse http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif )
I got 5 kills on your men to my one death and all i had was a AK74 compaired to three M21 snipers and your shilka (had to use a LAW off your dead sniper too)
I got what 5 kills on you that game and you got one on my chopper when I was landing http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
have you actually ever killed any on in OFP?
I dont remember you even getting a kill while you tried to Spawn camp!
Like I said in Game, stop whining and start playing
RN Malboeuf
Nov 24 2001, 19:47
>>>>BTW get on today,
Wont be home till Tuesday
>>>>>I wasn't playing good that day anyway
funny I never had any bad days when I play, never good, nor Bad, Drunk or Sober, or half a sleep, I always come in 1st or 2nd place id russin is playing
it has nothing to with me being good or not, It just takes time to understand Mapping Tool"l data AND to actually use it inyour favor, I'm sure if i whined as much as you do online I wwould be in 9th ot lasth place as well
>>>>And in the mean time, get a life
I have a Life a fast one
I Own my own Computer Company and the store front
this is ma baby 324 kph (201 mph)
THIS makes Life FUN!
>>>>>I bet he doesnt really have a GF if he plays that much
I'm 27, ***6'-5" thin and actually a NICE guy, I do allot of ***helping around here, mabey you should as well in stead of being a flamer
AND my GF is 21, 6'-"1, thin and does get realllllly pissed with me when hide on the NET for two days straight!
Shes a hotie, she has a 2 year old daughter that is just cutie and is crazy about me http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
combine that with OFP and I have a Great LIFE
Wisom, no matter how hard you try I'll never be/get mad at you, I'll never need to, I out grew guys like you years ago
After you graduate look me up and I'll give you a job!
(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 2:22 pm on Dec. 18, 2001)
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