Squad sizes, what do you think

[Apocalypse4]

Sweet work on OFP2 BIS,


One point, please dont make ofp's squad sizes bigger when it comes to campaign play, otherwise flashpoint would be turned into a first person stragegy instead of the FPS / TRPS

Can you other guys give some comments on this.....

[walker]

Hi All

There is no reason it cant be as it allready is an FPS(First Person Shooter) a TFPS (Tactical First Person Shooter) and SFPS (Strategic First Person Shooter).

I can not understand any reason for people saying let us limit OFP2 other than the purely practical of can the game engine and Expected systems handle the load. OFP Can handle SFPS so no reason to hobble it.

Keep squad size the same but add in a layer for multi squad command to allow control of platoons, companies, battalions. Keep the system open so the mission designers can make of it what they will. There is a question about F1 Key it is not used in Game so Squads could maybe be 13 units in game but I dont think it is worth the effort. Better to layer command to reflect RW (Real World) command Structures as we have done with the CoC.

Kind Regards walker

[Nyles]

As Walker said, OFP2 should try to get a working command-structure working, just like in real-life.

I posted a thread in the suggestions forum a while back, where I listed ideas and a basic concept for an intuitive radio system which would also practically allow squads of large sizes (not just 12), and relationships to corresponding units. That way you could accuractely simulate communication within a platoon, company, etc.

The thread can be found here! (http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=57;t=29666)

It's quiet long, but it's worth it. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[Apocalypse4]

I only mean limiting it for campaign mode,
I like the COC engine, its usefull, but controling the troops can get a little confusing,
I want the OFP2 to supportlarger squads, but the CoC engine doesnt give enough control, even though its the best by far,
i suppose thats the limitation in OFP engine.
I suppose its just my tactics, i like surrounding the enemy, telling my MGs and Laws to target but hold fire then open fire all at once, it causes hell, but i cant do that if the squad gets too big, as there are usually minor scuffles when the squad expands with enemy patrols, meaning its hard to surround them

[LT.Schaffer]

Hi all,
Yeah i think we should not limit what OFP2 can and can't do
http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif cause i think it would be cool to play coop with a platoon of Human&AI players http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

[FALLOUTFUN]

I dont see a problem wth the size of the squads in OFP. If u look it up a squad is a team of 8, it consits or 2 sections each having an MG and 3 rifles. each of these sections haa leader.
I do agree though that more support would be needed but not by adding more men to your squad. this could be done by adding more AI squads.

[stu_pid]

i think a squad size of 12 units is enough, with larger squads ofp would become very confusing. but walker's idea of commanding more than only one squad is quite interesting. i hope BIS will add this to opf2.
then it would be possible to fight for a whole island with only 2 human players(one east, one west) http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

[Lt_Phoenix]

Hi All

There is no reason it cant be as it allready is an FPS(First Person Shooter)  a TFPS (Tactical First Person Shooter) and SFPS (Strategic First Person Shooter).

I can not understand any reason for people saying let us limit OFP2 other than the purely practical of can the game engine and Expected systems handle the load. OFP Can handle SFPS so no reason to hobble it.

Keep squad size the same but add in a layer for multi squad command to allow control of platoons, companies, battalions. Keep the system open so the mission designers can make of it what they will. There is a question about F1 Key it is not used in Game so Squads could maybe be 13 units in game but I dont think it is worth the effort. Better to layer command to reflect RW (Real World) command Structures as we have done with the CoC.

Kind Regards walker
I agree with most of this Walker.

The F1 key, however, should still be used to give the nr 1 guy orders. In addition it would be cool to have a key that could cycle through multiple squads (Alpha, Bravo, Charlie etc.) That way, you could have multiple 12-man squads.

[PunkerSXDX]

Here's an Idea... Say you're a Corporal, Every one in Your Squad is Killed, and You see a private from a different squad, Just Wandering around in a Perdickament quite similar to your own, and you yell "eh trooper! wanna link up?" and he responds "HooAh!" then hey he's in you're Squad. I suppose if you want the simplified version of that, would it be possible to make a Join and Lead type command?

[Apocalypse4]

Youve played americas army WAY to much pal, take a break :-)



We have the editor waypoint command for join ups, but it would be nice to see that in OFP2 in the combat game environment

[vitoal125]

Quote[/b] ]I dont see a problem wth the size of the squads in OFP. If u look it up a squad is a team of 8, it consits or 2 sections each having an MG and 3 rifles. each of these sections haa leader.
I'm gonna have to disagree with you.  My squad is nearly T/O for a US Marine rifle squad and a t/o squad has  1 squad leader 3 fire team leaders, 3 saw gunners (automatic weapons), 3 assistant gunners, and 3 rifleman.  1+3+3+3+3= 13
therefore, I would be happy to see at least 13 man squads.  Maybe a max of 15 would be good because then you could have attachments like a corpsman, machinegunners, mortarmen, or assaultmen.

[Acidcrash]

Hi All

There is no reason it cant be as it allready is an FPS(First Person Shooter)  a TFPS (Tactical First Person Shooter) and SFPS (Strategic First Person Shooter).

I can not understand any reason for people saying let us limit OFP2 other than the purely practical of can the game engine and Expected systems handle the load. OFP Can handle SFPS so no reason to hobble it.

Keep squad size the same but add in a layer for multi squad command to allow control of platoons, companies, battalions. Keep the system open so the mission designers can make of it what they will. There is a question about F1 Key it is not used in Game so Squads could maybe be 13 units in game but I dont think it is worth the effort. Better to layer command to reflect RW (Real World) command Structures as we have done with the CoC.

Kind Regards walker
I agree with most of this Walker.

The F1 key, however, should still be used to give the nr 1 guy orders. In addition it would be cool to have a key that could cycle through multiple squads (Alpha, Bravo, Charlie etc.) That way, you could have multiple 12-man squads.
well if i understood you correct, why not have it like say neverwinter nights does it...the F keys have different functions if you press shift and ctrl (ie Shift+F1 )

so posibly something like this:
F1 key reserved for switchign between squads or maybe platoon level commands while F2-F12 was for squad members
OR
F1 switched to squad 1, Shift F1 switched to Squad 2
(theres several possible variations if you think about it)

[Apocalypse4]

ahhh neverwinter, a good rpg there ( no not a freakin nade you morons)

Good idea, about the shift, i never use that key in game so it may be useful

One question, how do you use caps in multi, what about using tab or another button for it


Antoher problem i got from neverwinter control sstem, and the splinter cell jump system is sticky keys, ive turned them off, but they are bloody annoying

[FatNinjaKid]

The squad system is fine as it is. But I'd like to be able to give a small number of very basic orders to other squads
-where to go
-behavior
-mount/dismount vehicles
-indirect fire support
-speed mode
...

as you said, CoC tried to implement that for OFP1 but the interface was so f*cked up, it wasn't much fun (not their fault http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif ) I once tried to build a windows-style menu (here (http://www.geocities.com/ofp_fnk/index.html)), but that didn't quiet work either (no MP support, nauseating camera, ai bugs, CPU requirements...)

Anyway, the prospect of beeing able control a whole battle as it unfolds is fascinating!
Think how you could set up a strategy using the different kinds of units... Decide for yourself from where to approach the enemy... make full use of terrain features...That would add a whole new dimension to OFP and it wouldn't take much to implement such features...for skilled people unlike myself http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

[walker]

as you said, CoC tried to implement that for OFP1 but the interface was so f*cked up, it wasn't much fun (not their fault http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif )

Hi FatNinjaKid

Just checking have you used CE2 V1.22, or were you using the old double click and return version?

CE2 V1.22 is the single click and dialogue version. If so we are still perfecting the Command Engine and would be happy to take any suggestions as to how to improve the CE.

Kind Regards walker

[FatNinjaKid]

A new version ?! wow, when did that came out? Checking it right now.

[Apocalypse4]

I want to see how the CE3 works, the mod has done some pretty amazing stuff in flashpoint, even with the engines limits,


I hope OFP2 is as editable/moddable as this one

[Blake]

BIS really should add some kind of platoon-level command interface, so you could command at least 4-8 squads/teams.

Large coops and adversarial matches would get much better tactical edge.

[The editing man]

BIS really should add some kind of platoon-level command interface, so you could command at least 4-8 squads/teams.

Large coops and adversarial matches would get much better tactical edge.
That requires lot of cpu usage, although i agree with you, but unforunatly i think most people do not have a high end pc. So BIS are not implementing that i think  http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/sad_o.gif

[dave8]

I think if you're the squad leader, you should control only the fireteam leaders on where to go, what to shoot, when to shoot, etc.. etc... The fireteam leaders then control their fireteam. Less micromanagement for you since you only control 2 people (in the army) or 3 people (in the marines) when you're the squad leader. problem is: is flashpoint's AI bright enough to keep the casualties down... i really hate it when the AI is the leader and tells people to engage people one by one, and the people who engage die off one by one. I also hate it when the AI tries to go to cover even 100 meters away during "Danger" Mode, and they die off one by one... OFP 2 has to seriously fix those problems

[Johan_D]

It could also be made more intelligent, real AI.

Let say you have 20 men, then it would be handy that you have a second in rank. Lets say you want to attack an enemy, and go yourself with a couple of men straight ahead, and want to let some others outflank them. A simple like we do now clicking for the second in command would do it.
Difference should be that he will take a couple, 8 of the squad for himself to so the job. The pick may be random, or by your overruling choice.
Instead of micromanaging every soldier a few standard rules should work.

like "sarg, get 8 and go to there and attack/wait/whatever"

But then easier. Also, it must be possible to setup the team before all starts. Appointing ranks and so. Like deltaforce did.

Johan

[El Savior]

I agree what Johan said. AI soldiers should be more individuals with their waypoints. If there's a nice cover couple of meters away they should always use it and not to follow the perfect formation. This should be the case at least when the enemy is nearby (aware mode). When in column formation squad should follow exatly leaders footsteps, well actually the lead member (scout). Leader should be also able to choose distances between soldiers in formation (ie. 5-15 metres).

El Savior

[Yeltsin]

More then 12, maybe 18?