View Full Version : Realism
May 18 2003, 15:29
Although OFP is a very realistic experience. It isn't bang-on accurate either.
Now there are alot of threads around about covering fire. I beleive it is very possible, theres already a radio command to take cover, so why shouldn't there be a "Hide" command and a "Take Cover" command.
Where the hide commmand just causes the troops to take refuge behind and around foliage while the take cover command actually causes the trooper to find sufficent cover to stop bullets from hitting them (rocks, buildings, e.t.c)
Very possible indeed.
And its also very simple to create covering fire in OFP2. because in OFP1 the soldiers are very accurate, even with a MG. Change the cripting so the first shot is accurate but after that a soldier starts to shoot more wildly, ever heard of "Pray and Spray"?
Also, Chopper extractions - They should be fast and effective but also safe.
In real combat when an extraction chopper comes in for pickup it will codnuct a quick sweep of an area to spot any possible threats before landing. And if it spots an enemy it won't land until the threat is neutalized.
(Here would be a good place for covering fire while the chopper lands)
On small squad forest, jugnle missions, each squad member should watch the others back. e.g, 1 troops stys behind and watches the rear while another scouts ahead for possible enemys. This should provide safer journey for the leader and the troops travelling with him.
And last, Hiding bodies. Hiding bodies in OFP1 is a rather drab and silly experience,. I mean, watching them disappear into the ground? How crap. You should be able to pick 'em up or drag 'em to somewhere else (what about putting them in rivers and stuff like that?
I believe most of these things are very possible.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ace_man @<hidden> 18 May 2003,16:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You should be able to pick 'em up or drag 'em to somewhere else (what about putting them in rivers and stuff like that?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Like in Socom: US Navy Seals. Many of the missions in that game were to avoid detection and put a body in the shaddows. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
May 18 2003, 16:58
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ace_man @<hidden> 18 May 2003,16:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also, Chopper extractions - They should be fast and effective but also safe.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
What about chopper insertions? The AI takes so long to land that I can deploy an entire platoon of T80s to the LZ and make a merry little massacre before the soldiers even get out of the helo.
Yes i agree, the AI should be able to come in quickly, do a proper flare and land, the troops should all then take a 3-4) seconds to get out, deploy in defensive postions for a sec, maybe provide cover fire while the helicopter does a smooth roll out of the LZ. Also i see helicopters shooting up into the sky, this ain't good for the engines and even in combat the pilots don't do it much, mainly cause they know they would rather be flying away slower than doing an auto rotation into a combat zone and surviving the battlefield on foot.
Make their actions like turning smoother, if you counter torque to the left then the helicopter rolls slightly, it doesn't pivot in midair, the efforts in OFP1 to do this were clearly visible and i think thye were much better than other games, but still a bit rough.
The problem with OFP and soldier accuracy lies in the missing "human" element.
In the original OFP, the only real degredation of accuracy occurs based on the weapon itself. The shooter always has perfect aim. The small amounts of sight drift associated with being "tired" aren't much more than a minor obsticle that any player can adjust for within minutes of picking up the game.
This can be seen in the AI as well (granted, the system is a little different for AI). An enemy soldiers skill level determines how soon he sees you....but an ace or a rookie can raise their weapon and hit you in a single shot almost every time.
When playing multiplayer, it's rarely useful to move to a more advantages position, because if you can see the enemy, you can generally hit them, even at extreme ranges. Closing with the enemy is pointless, as it's just as effective, if not more-so, to sit at range and pick them off.
The solution? Greater sight movement, and a very long stablization period to finally get that "rock steady" sight picture. There should be almost no way to get a steady sight picture while in any other position but prone.
Maybe even base such sight movement on the skill level of the soldier being played. If I was making a mission, I'd give the basic grunts some low level skills, making anyone who used them in MP have to fill the role appropriately (stay in groups, using large volumes of fire to survive and kill). Special forces, or combat hardened units would be assigned higher skill levels, and therefore be much more "real" in their abilities inside the game world.
Just some random thoughts.
Apart from 'Cadet' and 'Veteran' mode, I would like to see a 'Realism' mode. Apart from anything else the realism in OFP is flawed by the fact any 'Private Fuckwitt' can hop into a A10 or AH-64 and take off and go shoot some tanks up.
Ok the freedom to do this is nice in perhaps like games in CTF online, but the 'realism' and 'sim' labels that people like to give OFP totally go out the window. Lets have the option for realism, so pilots are the only ones who can fly state ot the art military hardware.
I dont think that the class system is used as well as it could be. It doesnt really matter if you are a grenadier, black op, sniper, machine gunner or officer, you or the AI can fly choppers, aircraft or drive tanks. The equipment, weapons and actions you can use or do need to be individualised more. Apart from the medic class, any unit can do pretty much the same as any other, and use any weapon as if it was such a natural thing to do.
Ok the Special Forces guy is assumed to be the best trained dude on the battlefield, but IMO 99% of them can not fly A10's or a AH-64 etc etc in real life. We might expect some military personnel to have a light aircraft liscence, but thats about it. So why is it even possible for a grunt to be able to fly the A10 like he was an ace in Top Gun?
If a grunt runs out of ammo in a foreign land and goes to use a foreign enemies weapon or vehicle, is he really going to be as adept as his enemy in using it to perfection like his own? SF are the exception to the rule of course, so maybe have some sort of system to penalise a unit using un familiar enemy equipment and weapons.
Maybe each unit should be refined more by BIS so there is a little more expertise and skill in that units class http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
May 20 2003, 18:47
Well, as I have said in other posts, I think that the game should have a "simulation setting", and when you are playing with that, it should be as hard to fly a A10 in the game as in reallife (or as close to as possible)...
The only thing that should count there is the players skill, and that should not be something the game can change, in other words, no diffrent classes (other that the looks of them), everybody should be able to drive/fly everything...
The problem with that is that allmost anybody here who have flown the A10 in flashpoint (with joystick) can probbibly fly it a bit in real life (take of and mabye hold it steady), but in real life you don't have the option to restart the mission when you have flown a bit to low and crashed... http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
One way to compensate that is to be able to choose to play the campain in "Simulation mode", and when you die in that you will have to start a new campain... that would mabye be kind of frusturating on the first missions when you have to play them over and over again, but it would be a real relief to have finished it... http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
That is an option I would like to have, but as allways, it shoud be an option, and there should be an option to play the game with realistic settings, but the abillity to save after each mission, and replay even if you die...
May 20 2003, 22:26
How about if you pick up an enemy gun or tank it take you longer to reload (as you werent trained with it) and is less accurate, this would be realistic. There could be a setting for CTF maps as you wouldnt want it, but it would be much more realistic if you werent 100% efficient with enemy guns and vehicles.
May 21 2003, 05:12
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ZIKAN @<hidden> 20 May 2003,13:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Apart from 'Cadet' and 'Veteran' mode, I would like to see a 'Realism' mode. Apart from anything else the realism in OFP is flawed by the fact any 'Private Fuckwitt' can hop into a A10 or AH-64 and take off and go shoot some tanks up.
Ok the freedom to do this is nice in perhaps like games in CTF online, but the 'realism' and 'sim' labels that people like to give OFP totally go out the window. Lets have the option for realism, so pilots are the only ones who can fly state ot the art military hardware.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
It looks like someone has been reading my mind http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif , yes only tank crews should have access to tanks and only pilots should fly copters or planes, we can choose to play realisticly in sp but in mp opf is just another rambo game where every soldier class can drive/fly wathever they want, it makes no sence http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif , we could have more interesting games with pilots ferrying troops from base (spawn) to battlefield, and the removal of parachutes from helicopters would also fit well with the simulation option.
May 21 2003, 13:47
Reverse gear for Tanks & Cars (AI). This must be included in Scripting interface.
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