Iron sights

[m16a2m203]

Make them look more realistic instead of a big black blur.

Make the 203 or 79 or whatever it is going to be in the game have a more realistic sight that actually works in a better fashion than the wag method.

[Jinef]

Wag method?

You mean add sights with numbers on them, like the SVD.
So you can calculate, roughly where it will land.

[m16a2m203]

Old terminology still in use in some backwater areas where I have been known to frequent.

WAG - Wild Ass Quess

And for those that spent a semester in college

SWAG - Scientific Wild Ass Quess

[haunted]

I think the iron sights could do with some touching up, so they look as good as the AA or VietCong sites...

[168GRN HPBT]

I like AA's sights . VC is too kiddy frendly

[Harnu]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Make the 203 or 79 or whatever it is going to be in the game have a more realistic sight that actually works in a better fashion than the wag method. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

M203 isn&#39;t that hard when you use it after a while. You get some good SWAG&#39;s off it.

[Epita]

I think the sights are OK, but one thing that should be added, the option to use Irons even with a optical sight. if that goes, then using irons should be faster but less accurate.

Epita

[Uziyahu--IDF]

I carried an M203 in the U.S. Army in the late 80&#39;s. Lemme tell ya... what you call the "WAG" method is the only way to do it. I tried relying on the flip-down sights on a qualification range and almost bolo&#39;ed&#33; Real-life is just like how it is in OFP with Grenade Launchers, right now. Guessing is the best and quickest method.

Check out the scene in "Hamburger Hill" where the NCO uses your WAG method while the F.N.G. fumbles with the flip-up sights on the M79.

-Uziyahu-IDF
http://www.idfsquad.com/

[Heatseeker]

Also the animation of the soldier raising his gun to the shoulder would be neat, instead of having the sight turned on the moment you press V... http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif .

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX]

If they do put in a raising animation, I hope its not very long. Half a sec or less would be about right IMO.

[Necromancer-]

I vote for 3d modelled iron sights.

[Heatseeker]

If they do put in a raising animation, I hope its not very long.  Half a sec or less would be about right IMO.
Yep, like the ones in BHD, they raize pretty fast, one of the few features well done in that game, the vc style ones wouldnt work because they dont put the sight close to the eye, something necessary in opf due to the long range shooting, bang http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif .

[Goeth]

I think the iron sights could do with some touching up, so they look as good as the AA or VietCong sites...
VietCong ironsight definetly suck major ass, there must be some other way.

[Eviscerator]

I vote for 3d modelled iron sights.
No point, its much better on system resources to model it, take a screenshot from the viewpoint of the gunner and then use that image as a template for a textured iron sight.

[Necromancer-]

I vote for 3d modelled iron sights.
No point, its much better on system resources to model it, take a screenshot from the viewpoint of the gunner and then use that image as a template for a textured iron sight.
there is, because you&#39;d see the sights bob a little when moving.

[Bullz_eye_on_my_back]

it might be just me, but i would like to be given the option to manipulate my iron sights while in the game....

maybe have a small area set up before playing a mission to get your riffle sighted in....or better yet have an option for "target range" on the opening interface...where you can choose from a drop down list every single gun or weapon that could be used....and have different shooting ranges. You could then set the sights how you want it and click save....and it will be saved in a file for all of the guns you have sighted in....
then in the game you can manipulate it depending on the distance and wind (if they decide to have wind affect bullets)


for those who don&#39;t want to fool with it they could have it auto sighted

[Eviscerator]

I vote for 3d modelled iron sights.
No point, its much better on system resources to model it, take a screenshot from the viewpoint of the gunner and then use that image as a template for a textured iron sight.
there is, because you&#39;d see the sights bob a little when moving.
Not unless the head/rifle moved, which they dont in ofp, not when able to put iron sights on anyway.

[Denwad]

Vietcong&#39;s are actually pretty realistic, if they only lined up correctly http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/sad_o.gif

Infiltration: BEST 3D IRON SIGHTS EVA&#33; (http://infiltration.sentrystudios.net/)

[FALLOUTFUN]

If you ever fire a gun though U&#39;ll notice that thesites are prety simila to flshpoint though because u are only focased on the ground ahead. If u notice it is bluredbecause ur not looking at it.
I wouldn&#39;t complain if these sites were replaced with 3D ones but i do think it is less realistic.

[Silver Falcon]

I would like if you can change the sights range on Granade launchers by zoom in an zoom out keys (instead of zooming), so the ironsight picture will change on M203 and the the muzzle will be differently elevated (to hit target at such a range) on GP-25 it would by only elevated...


Quote[/b] ]The grenade launcher assembled and ready for deployment: barrel and mount are attached to the main frame with grip and trigger. On the left side of mount one can see sighting scale: white marking are for direct fire; red markings are for curved trajectory. The front sight is of a pin type, adjustable for elevation. The side folding rear sight is of a "U"-notch type, non-adjustable. To set sights to any specific range, depress the knob located on the upper rib of sighting bracket and place an arrow against selected range marking. Firing on a curved trajectory, place an arrow against desired red marking. Once position of sighting pendulum coincides with position of the arrow, the range is set.
http://club.guns.ru/images/gp25/3.jpg
http://club.guns.ru/eng/gp25.html

Guess most folks here know how M203 ironsight works http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

I almost forgot - to make it effective, use real muzzle velocities (71-76m/s).

[Berghoff]

Make them look more realistic instead of a big black blur.

Make the 203 or 79 or whatever it is going to be in the game have a more realistic sight that actually works in a better fashion than the wag method.
Maybe 3d Iron sight were the corners of the screen can a bit blurry or something because your eyes only focus on one point.

[StealthTiger]

Personally I don&#39;t see the need to 3D model the iron sights & all it takes is practice to figure out the degree of &#39;WAG&#39; needed at range. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[Chip]

I carried an M203 in the U.S. Army in the late 80&#39;s. Lemme tell ya... what you call the "WAG" method is the only way to do it. I tried relying on the flip-down sights on a qualification range and almost bolo&#39;ed&#33; Real-life is just like how it is in OFP with Grenade Launchers, right now. Guessing is the best and quickest method.

Check out the scene in "Hamburger Hill" where the NCO uses your WAG method while the F.N.G. fumbles with the flip-up sights on the M79.

-Uziyahu-IDF
http://www.idfsquad.com/
It&#39;s the same with russian GP-25. They come with iron sights but nobody uses them. In fact russian soldiers even dismantle the sights to lose some weight off the rifle. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[PainDealer]

I think the iron sights could do with some touching up, so they look as good as the AA or VietCong sites...
I hope you were cracking a good one there http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wow_o.gif

in VC the rear sight has no significance there and the weapon is like 2ft away from the player while looking through the sights.

[Silver Falcon]

It&#39;s the same with russian GP-25. They come with iron sights but nobody uses them. In fact russian soldiers even dismantle the sights to lose some weight off the rifle. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
It may be fun on 100m, but I found my accuracy greatly increased with GL by Earl and Suchey (well its a bit different method than adjusting sights, but when you have mark at angle (WAG?) you need do hit target on 250m, you have much better chance to hit it). I think they did great job painting markings exactly on specific ranges on sights. Of course, real muzzle velocity helps too, since in default OFP is bit decreased.

I would never dismantle the sights unless fighting in urban area. (Not that I don´t understand the benefits of light, short weapon).
True, that since I made my own M16M203 config (real mv), I was able to hit beacause I used parts of ironsights as marks (must train and than remember ranges and parts of sights) but I would realy realy like to have adjustable sights on GL.

[Metal Heart]

I vote for 3d modelled iron sights.
No point, its much better on system resources to model it, take a screenshot from the viewpoint of the gunner and then use that image as a template for a textured iron sight.
there is, because you&#39;d see the sights bob a little when moving.
You could fake 3D sights with two images to save the resources, but they really aren&#39;t that important IMO. Maybe if breathing was a factor they could be of use.

[funnyguy1]

I vote for 3d modelled iron sights.
No point, its much better on system resources to model it, take a screenshot from the viewpoint of the gunner and then use that image as a template for a textured iron sight.
there is, because you&#39;d see the sights bob a little when moving.
Not unless the head/rifle moved, which they dont in ofp, not when able to put iron sights on anyway.
If things from here (http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=57;t=38896;st=0) are implemented 3d sights will be the best sollution.

[Cpt. Ionio]

In regards to the 3D sights, I&#39;ve been playing Call of Duty recently and the sights in that game look very nice - both the scopes and the iron sights - when you move the mouse the rear sight moves at a different speed to the fore sight. With scopes the crosshair moves at a different speed to the lense you look through. I think they did it by just moving the camera to behind the sights, whereas Flashpoint just puts a black skin thing infront of the camera.

I think OFP2 will have better sights - the magnum and ingram in one of the patches had some degree of shading, they where not just black.

[funnyguy1]

I`ve sold my asg m4, as it was just a spring asg...Before that I had done some serious tests:)

I have an idea concerning the IR sights and the weapon handling.

1.Ability to zoom in/out (mousewheel maybe, when the weapon is ascended and zommed in max, so you zoom only the sights*)when using IR sight, (the v(?) key) simulating movements of head (forward and backward) when sticked to the stock. The fancy thing would be if your eye is too close the sight It`s bluring a bit. **

2.And head movements simulation (3rd or 4th mouse button), while using IR sights.
For ex. you`re using the IR sights, and want to look around without moving/shaking the weapon, covering the whole screen, you only have to press the Xmouse button and you can freely take a look on the left, and if you`re right handed, admire the beautifully and in detail modelled gun stock on the right http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

* by that I mean my previous suggestion.
You can ascend and descend the weapon using the mousewheel, so there are different kinds of aiming and shooting efficacy & moving speed. And the changes of location of the weapon are quite smooth, and it can be done quite easly and fast.
**Another thought about the bluring stuff.
- when your eye is at the max distance from the rear sight (max zoomed out), the scene (??...things that you can se in the background) is better visible,
- the more the distance between your eye and the rear sight is decreasing (zooming in) the more the background is bluring, and the rear (and the front sight) is sharpening.

[tug2000]

I almost agree with Bullz_eye.

Virtually all weapons are bore sighted at a specific distance. We always sighted our SA80s @<hidden> 200m. In addition to this you can turn a knob to adjust for distance (Normally in 100m increments). This would be ideal maybe the +- keys on the numpad whilst in "sights" view would increase/decrease this value. And have a list of ranges in the config http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[Bordoy]

I almost agree with Bullz_eye.

Virtually all weapons are bore sighted at a specific distance. We always sighted our SA80s @<hidden> 200m. In addition to this you can turn a knob to adjust for distance (Normally in 100m increments).  This would be ideal maybe the +- keys on the  numpad whilst in "sights" view would increase/decrease this value. And have a list of ranges in the config http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
Isn&#39;t it 300m or am i thinking of the SUSAT?

[NeMeSiS]

I vote for 3d modelled iron sights.
No point, its much better on system resources to model it, take a screenshot from the viewpoint of the gunner and then use that image as a template for a textured iron sight.
what the hell is everyone talking about? in COD your fps didnt drop when you used the iron sights, why the hell would it in Game2? http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/tounge_o.gif

[Ti0n3r]

I think the best solution would be to make it 3D, like in Red Orchestra. IMO thats the best iron sights ever.
EDIT: Also I agree with ofpforum. 3D sights wouldnt lower the fps.

[tug2000]

@<hidden> : We were using iron sights. I can&#39;t exactly recall what we used on the LSW&#39;s (With SUSATs)

http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[Bordoy]

@<hidden> : We were using iron sights. I can&#39;t exactly recall what we used on the LSW&#39;s (With SUSATs)

http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif
oh right cheers mate. I think they are zeroed at 100m/300m

[shinRaiden]

Scopes are for pansies. They fool you into thinking your shots will go exactly where the points are, and trick you into looking at your scope and not your target. Ever wonder why even in sniper teams the spotter has the monster telescope, but the sniper never has much more than a typical varmit blaster scope?

Secondly, scopes invite tunnel vision. You become a sucker for looking only at an objective three feet across at range, oblivious to the guy standing off at the side doing who knows what with a bead on your head. Good old iron being open is less likely to encourage tunnel vision. Plus since iron sights don&#39;t give you cheater vision, you&#39;re less inclined to stay in them.

That&#39;s not to say that iron sights are just spray-and-pray, the key is you see all that you need to see. Snipers have been using iron sights in combat for hundreds of years now and it hasn&#39;t set them back any. Of course, if you&#39;re ranging out to a thousand meters obviously your eyeballs will need a bit of help, but mounting an M82 Barrett to the side of the Hubble Space Telescope won&#39;t help you any if you don&#39;t know how to shoot in the first place.

In defense of scopes however, there is the realism factor. According to the unscientifc research I&#39;ve conducted - via trolling militaryphotos.net and other sites - most western military&#39;s guns have some sort of a scoped sight, even if it is just a red dot illuminator that technically functions more in the iron sight catagory. So for realism sake, yes scopes do need to be in there. But please let those who prefer old iron to continue to be able to snipe those that don&#39;t. http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/wink_o.gif

[Antichrist]

Heck yeah&#33; I am all for 3d ironsights&#33; http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/biggrin_o.gif

[Necromancer-]

as IRL.. Iron sights should be adjustable, just like the rear sight of an M16.

The M16 rear sight has 2 modes..
One hole for targets till 200 meters and a smaller hole for targets beyond 200 meters.

[gandalf the white]

Guys, guys, blurring an image is a piece of pish with DirectX 9.
shown here (http://www.corelimits.com/review_pics/doom3/zombie_glass.jpg) , here (http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens/distortion.jpg), and even more clear here (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55/BunnySlinger/grabberagain.jpg[)you can disort images. so I bet having a "blur" map is easy to do aswell.

[funnyguy1]

Even though there are plans to make ofp2 the ultimate multi-purpose sim, still there are things that could be improoved in the grunt`s simulaion.

The biggest problem in the fps games seems to be the weapon handling, weapon effectiveness (factors like recoil and so on), and the use of IR sights.

I wait for game, which could bring the fps` style of games to a whole new level. And I think ofp2 could handle this.

Despite the grunt simulation in ofp was on the quite high level, (other games on this list probably were, SWAT series, R6, GR (maybe?), *action games never bothered with realism, even though they had nice gfx, the weapon handling never was good enough*), It`s still the same way like years ago.

Crosshair, hip-schooting and so on...
And when it comes to this point (*), I think that there isn`t as many differences between SoF2 and R6....

I personally don`t know how to do this, I`ve suggested some things, but there`s a lot of work, and It would be great if ofp2 brings something new to the fps` at all.

Ofcourse, there is a problem, old as the PC: how to make the simulation correctly, And don`t get me wrong, I don`t want ofp2 to become matrix or something, It`s hard even if you have gadgets like 3d goggles and so on.

Better IR sights and weapon handling  all the way&#33;  

[bravo 6]

what about adding some pics in this thread? so people have some idea http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif

[Ti0n3r]

The red orchestra iron sights;
http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfolders/upload1/RO1.JPG
http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfolders/upload1/RO2.JPG
I dont think they should remove the old iron sights. The best solution would be if you could use both or maybe choose wich one you want to use in the cadet/veteran menu.

[Baphomet]

Quote[/b] ]Quote (Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX @<hidden> June 09 2003,10:12)
If they do put in a raising animation, I hope its not very long.  Half a sec or less would be about right IMO.

Yep, like the ones in BHD, they raize pretty fast, one of the few features well done in that game, the vc style ones wouldnt work because they dont put the sight close to the eye, something necessary in opf due to the long range shooting, bang  

Fuck that. Have you ever tried to draw a bead on something with iron sights?? It&#39;s not done in half a bloody second. Not if you want to hit something at least.

I&#39;m sick of snap shots with 300m accuracy. I want human inefficiency taken into greater account.

Try shooting prairie dogs with a .22 at 60 yards with iron sights, that&#39;s about the equivalent to shooting at a person at about 250-300, and I gaurantee you, you don&#39;t just sling it up to your shoulder and crack off a single shot in the course of a second.

I don&#39;t want OFP2 gameplay to be the equivalent to a bunch of rifle slinging Bob Munden wannabees.

BHD&#39;s weapon handling and ballistics were so revoltingly basic that I grew bored of it halfway through the first mission I played. I&#39;m sick of state of the art graphics accompanying weapons that are functionally about as sophisticated as the one&#39;s found in doom or wolfenstein.

Furthermore, 3d ironsights are useless unless it&#39;s accompanied by a weapon handling system that supports user input on actually sighting the weapon, instead of the game simply perfectly aligning them for you. Anything less and it&#39;s simply pointless aesthetics.

[Deicide]

Those of Red Orchestra are the best IMO. Here the reference pics used for real iron sights  : http://www.gunpics.net/ironsights/ironsights.html  

AK47 : http://www.gunpics.net/ironsights/type56.html
FAL : http://www.gunpics.net/ironsights/slr.html
Browning P35 : http://www.gunpics.net/ironsights/p35b.html

[funnyguy1]

Crazy idea...

We need simulation of both, front and rear sights, right?...
and they have to move separately....

Trackir?

I mean...mouse is the frontsight and trackir is the rearsight....

Could this be done?

Imagine the gunner`s helmet in helo with combination of mouse and trackir