Death and destruction

[Chomps]

In a war simulator where things are bound to get blown up, I would love to see better in-game effects for this. While entire bloodied chests from a single gunshot and crumpled up vehicles served their purpose and did not cripple the original game at all, it would be nice to see some improvement.

Perhaps the model files for vehicles could be improved to include information on how the vehicle should be destroyed, like what parts are explosive, what parts are easy to blow apart, etc, and then there could be some randomness in the vehicle exploding, or not exploding. Shooting at a wooden plank a hundred times, for example, should not cause a truck to crumble up and start to smoke.

Air units could use some additional attention in their destruction like better collision detection when they hit the ground.

Finally, actual people could use better blood effects. It is not necessary to get to the level of disembodiment, but well, there are millions of options when it comes to this.

[itim_tuko]

I agree. Further the dammage to buildings and brigdes would be nicer if they would not collapse, but get holes throught shooting and rubble would appear afterwards that still is accessible.

[Jinef]

Don't have people ejecting from helicopters unles of course it's the Kamov 52 or something. It's unrealistic and the player should ride it down like in real life.

See these, distressing (if you fly helicopters), but indeed quite realistic videos for damage moddeling.

I met the guy in the sea king by the way.

http://home.hiwaay.net/~sickler/opforstuff/vids/navyhelocrash.WMV

That's of a sea knight falling of the back of a ship OFP style.

http://www.cartek-automobile.ch/videos/

There is a few here, the username and password are both videos if required.

I would like also realistic flight models for the helicopters that can simulate proper autorotations, the one in OFP requires you to cut power immediately, with enough height you can get your rotor going from 0 rpm.

Add some automatic dust effects to helicopters, that can get turned off in options for slow pc users.

Make the nav lights have more distance, i can hardly see them from a km away, they are meant to be seen over 5 miles away. Maybe IR navlights for NVGs. Starlight scopes can be fitted to GPMGs (circular sight, not oblong like OFP's current NVG models). Have binouculars that face the way your looking and have some little accessories for weapons, like bipods and stuff which you can collect. Maybe not realistic ammo loadouts (30 mags or so) but increase it to about 15 or so max, and have more grenades, one use laws and more AT weapons. And more real infantry missions without almost instant promotions, lot's of checkpoint duty, patrols, and more guarding where you have civvies trying to bomb your vehicles, which doesn't lead to mission failure and retry, but one less vehicle in your next mission, like the weapon pool. Less scripting in missions, more AI, for example after montignac and lost in the forest are considered to be classic but i shotdown that hind with a RPG to the tail rotor, i deserve my extraction!

And i'm doing my wishlist here so i'll shut up.

hope you like some of my ideas! http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[PopUpTarget]

One simple thing I'd like to have is the ability to drop a weapon that I no longer have use for. Like an empty LAW launcher for example. It'd be nice to be able to just get rid of the thing without searching for a machine gun or something replace it with.

[WhoCares]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PopUpTarget @<hidden> April 24 2003,17:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">One simple thing I&#39;d like to have is the ability to drop a weapon that I no longer have use for. Like an empty LAW launcher for example. It&#39;d be nice to be able to just get rid of the thing without searching for a machine gun or something replace it with.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This is possible since resistance, isn&#39;t it?&#33; You have just to select it, before you can drop it, eg. you can&#39;t drop the LAW-Launcher, when you currently use a M16 and the LAW Launcher is on you back.

[Chomps]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WhoCares @<hidden> April 24 2003,17:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PopUpTarget @<hidden> April 24 2003,17:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">One simple thing I&#39;d like to have is the ability to drop a weapon that I no longer have use for. Like an empty LAW launcher for example. It&#39;d be nice to be able to just get rid of the thing without searching for a machine gun or something replace it with.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This is possible since resistance, isn&#39;t it?&#33; You have just to select it, before you can drop it, eg. you can&#39;t drop the LAW-Launcher, when you currently use a M16 and the LAW Launcher is on you back.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Just go to the map to the Gear screen and click on the little down arrows by each item to drop them without having to select them first.

Anyway, back to killing&#33; http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif


Yes, I forgot to mention damage to structures and terrain. I do not have any real suggestions as to how to make the buildings be destroyed, but anything that could replace the crumbling animation. Again, damage statistics could be defined in the model file so there could be different types of destruction between a wooden cabin and a brick building.

Also, further implementation of fire effects would be sweet. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Warin]

I would like to see:

No more &#39;deflating&#39; buildings
Better movement animations (They run funny)
Less clipping (no more guns sinking into the ground&#33; )
Better hands.

[Cloney]

I&#39;d like to see helicopters that don&#39;t explode the second you hit the ground going 25 mph. In reality these choppers can plow into the ground and leave the crew and passengers reasonably battered, but most importantly alive. It sucks in an MP game when you have to crash land with a full cargo load and you are going a little too fast and everyone dies. Then everyone starts spamming "WTF dude u sux0r".

[Sandman]

I also agree on the above - more ways to damage vehicles and structures. Maybe a chance to blow the turret off a tank or something? Being able to blow up a hole in a roof would be nice also... http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I like the "wind-blowing-in-the-trees"-effects that is in Ghost Recon for example. That would be nice in OFP2 (movement is always distractive...). (I know this isnt excactly on the topic, but what the hell, when wishing, why dont do it properly&#33http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[bn880]

Destructable walls, wooden planks etc. As well as terrain destruction? (so hard to implement I think)

Oh yeah, already posted.... http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Denwad]

A real armor model would be cool, like in Panzer Elite.

[Col. Kurtz]

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif7--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Denwad @<hidden> April 25 2003,12http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif7)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A real armor model would be cool, like in Panzer Elite.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I agree.
On top of the already mentioned better terrain, vehicle and building damage, I would like to see ricohets. Shoot a tank with a rifle and your bullet will ricochet off.
And more realistic bullet penetration. Think SWAT 3.
If you shoot at a wooden wall with a rifle, the bullet will punch right through, leaving a whole. If there is another wall behind the wall you shot through, the bullet might penetrate that as well. If you shoot a lightly armoured vehicle with a 30mm depleted uranium shell fired for the Avenger cannon, it will go right through the roof of the vehicle then through the floor.

[LaPoieto]

So lets say a plane is shot down and it is skiting down a field. Its wings should fall off and the pilot should have a 40% chance of quickly geting out of the plane when it stops before the fule tanks explode. If the fule tanks are shot by a missile have that fule tank explode. If shot with a MG, then spray a liquid out of the hole.


PS I don&#39;t no how to spell fule. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Jinef]

Fuel, it&#39;s better than saying gas.

[Dark Knight]

also with the destruction... lets have it so they do blow up and not deform.. coz it just looks like it has been squashed

i want it to go boom&#33; with it destroyed not squashed&#33;

[Schoeler]

We need deformable terrain:  

Shell holes and bomb craters.  You should see dirt clods and dust thrown up when an explosion occurs.

We need real destruction of buildings:  

Bullet pock marks in walls, rubble, secondary fires and blownout, toppled walls and roofs.

We need realistic combat injuries and AI behavior to back them:  

Severed limbs, wounds that bleed and people that react properly.  Screaming, writhing soldiers, not guys who crawl quietly to the nearest medic.  I want guys with abdominal wounds to grab them, and then scream like someone really would.  If the game is about combat realism, then this is the most realistic part of combat.  People get injured, it hurts, they scream and bleed a lot.

Realistic damage on vehicles:

A HMMWV hit by a tank shell should be shredded.  Tank turrets should pop off in a fireball with a good hit.  An M113 hit by an RPG round should have a neat little hole in the side with shrapnel marks around it, and everyone inside should be dead.

[Mr. Snrub]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @<hidden> 30 April 2003,04:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We need realistic combat injuries and AI behavior to back them:

Severed limbs, wounds that bleed and people that react properly. Screaming, writhing soldiers, not guys who crawl quietly to the nearest medic. I want guys with abdominal wounds to grab them, and then scream like someone really would. If the game is about combat realism, then this is the most realistic part of combat. People get injured, it hurts, they scream and bleed a lot.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
But it&#39;s not essential to gameplay. To be honest, I&#39;d rather not have a game which simulates warfare down to the grittiest detail, like the sorts of wounds suffered in combat. The effect wounds and injuries have on your squad can be simulated in other ways.

I agree, however, that the current OFP wound simulation isn&#39;t quite as good as it could be. Soldier&#39;s should be immobile if their wounds are severe enough, they should perhaps die if untreated after a certain amount of time etc. etc. But soldier&#39;s writhing in agony and screaming in pain (as accurate as it is) is not quite conducive to an enjoyable gaming experience.

All in all, the game is meant to be fun, not a traumatic experience. I understand that it&#39;s far more realistic than it is at the moment, but there should be a limit. The more disturbing effects of war should remain in the realm of films.

[Schoeler]

You could solve that problem by having a turn off realistic injuries option. I just think that making war antispetic in games like this, makes war acceptable or glorified in a lot of young people&#39;s minds. Thats why I like OFP, the realism. Kids and adults who play it learn that its very easy to get injured or killed in war. I think this does a lot of good. We play wargames because war is the ultimate test for human beings, physically, mentally and emotionally. Nothing else challenges us like warfare, and we all have a morbid curiosity to accept that challenge and see how we&#39;d do. I don&#39;t have a problem with playing war, I just think it should be portrayed for what it really is. The challenge remains, or becomes even greater, and warfare no longer seems like a game or fun diversion.

[Mr. Snrub]

It is in the end just a game, and in order to be fun, I think there should be a limit to how brutal the realism should be.

I have no problem with the realistic depiction of war in movies, as its generally intended to inform the viewer of the brutal futility of war. Games are designed to entertain - simulating the effects of war in a game will be end up (even if it was intended to be informative) as entertainment. I&#39;m not at all a screaming moral crusader (ugh), but I respect the horrors of war to a point where I don&#39;t want it turned into pure entertainment for 14 years old. I&#39;m not at all saying you don&#39;t respect it, in fact you sound like you very much do. I would support implementing it if the majority of gamers out there were mature enough to realise that any attempt to portray realistic warfare were an attempt to educate.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX]

I&#39;d like more realism in all things, and I think the average OFP player is clever enough to realise the intentions behind it.

[Schoeler]

I guess that&#39;s the rub. If OFP is made into a totally immersive game, then there is the risk that kids and adults will see the horrors of warfare as entertaining, but I think if it were made more real the opposite would happen. People&#39;s eyes would be opened to the realities of war, and thus warfare would become less a part of reality. If the average schmo could be made to see: "Holy shit, my friends and I keep getting killed all the time, and even those enemy guys who are just like us (kids, who for the most part don&#39;t want to be there) are dying horribly." Then warfare becomes less of a practical solution for mankind.

[vortex3d]

I second more gore. Shall we add hookers, drugs, and alcohol too?? http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[[CCCP]Stalker]

I think when you&#39;re hit you&#39;ll start bleeding and loosing health till you are bandaged.

[[CCCP]Stalker]

Maybe BIS should be GEO-MOD from Red Faction developers ? This would make you able to dig trenches with your tank main gun, destroy the roofs, bridges etc in a MUCH MORE realistic way.

[1B1KSniper]

Maybe they should just have a geomod-like effect just for objects... It&#39;s not really necessary for the terrain, but it would be really nice for house, trees, and stuff like that. Because porbably the 3rd or 4th thing I did with the mission editor was make myself a little mission where I had to do some demolition, and it was not till then I saw just how much the building destruction sucked. Those charges should&#39;ve completely leveled the buildings, but they just deflated... I was severely disappointed.
I don&#39;t want to be disappointed like that in OFP2.

[CopyCon]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @<hidden> 29 April 2003,20:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">People get injured, it hurts, they scream and bleed a lot.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I really want this, it would add a danm lot to the game and the atmosphere of war. As it is now there is no trauma, characters acts like robots, they are not "feeling" pain. I want screams, not just one scream that comes the same second the bullet goes through the body. I want to hear the enemy (and my pals) to shout: "Medic&#33;&#33;&#33;" and that they lie moaning after a severe wound. In addition to this, I dont want to shoot crippled enemies in cold blood, I want to be able to take captives.

[Impavido]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jinef @<hidden> 24 April 2003,17:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Don&#39;t have people ejecting from helicopters unles of course it&#39;s the Kamov 52 or something. It&#39;s unrealistic and the player should ride it down like in real life.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I agree with that a lot. If your helo takes too much damage it should start falling or you loose control, much like you do now. But when that happanes you can&#39;t eject, you have to fight the controls to try to guide the helo into a angle and speed in which you have a chance to survive the crash.
Trying to conrol a falling rock that you&#39;re strapped into sounds thrilling&#33;&#33;
http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif AHHHHHHHH&#33; IM GOING DOWN&#33;&#33;&#33;
CRASH&#33;

[STGN]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Copy Con @<hidden> 10 May 2003,14:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @<hidden> 29 April 2003,20:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">People get injured, it hurts, they scream and bleed a lot.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I really want this, it would add a danm lot to the game and the atmosphere of war. As it is now there is no trauma, characters acts like robots, they are not "feeling" pain. I want screams, not just one scream that comes the same second the bullet goes through the body. I want to hear the enemy (and my pals) to shout: "Medic&#33;&#33;&#33;" and that they lie moaning after a severe wound. In addition to this, I dont want to shoot crippled enemies in cold blood, I want to be able to take captives.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Why should OFP be a game that has the focus on all the horror I like the focus on machines The other things can we get on the News and in movies.
You like to shot people down and then go over and say oh I am sory now let me take you to a MEDIC http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .
I am not sure if the elements of capturing eimyes should be adde cause I know fore my self that I becomes one whit the game when I play and then gets angry when my men are shot down I remember in SWAT3 when a member of my squat is dowend I would more likly to shot first and talk afterwards(also on captivs) which sometimes resultet in some bildings looking like swiss chese. And problery because I am a cristian I feel quit gilty afterwards. In OFP you either shot or get shot.
STGN

[CopyCon]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (STGN @<hidden> 10 May 2003,20:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Copy Con @<hidden> 10 May 2003,14http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif3)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @<hidden> 29 April 2003,20:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">People get injured, it hurts, they scream and bleed a lot.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I really want this, it would add a danm lot to the game and the atmosphere of war. As it is now there is no trauma, characters acts like robots, they are not "feeling" pain. I want screams, not just one scream that comes the same second the bullet goes through the body. I want to hear the enemy (and my pals) to shout: "Medic&#33;&#33;&#33;" and that they lie moaning after a severe wound. In addition to this, I dont want to shoot crippled enemies in cold blood, I want to be able to take captives.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Why should OFP be a game that has the focus on all the horror I like the focus on machines The other things can we get on the News and in movies.
You like to shot people down and then go over and say oh I am sory now let me take you to a MEDIC http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .
I am not sure if the elements of capturing eimyes should be adde cause I know fore my self that I becomes one whit the game when I play and then gets angry when my men are shot down I remember in SWAT3 when a member of my squat is dowend I would more likly to shot first and talk afterwards(also on captivs) which sometimes resultet in some bildings looking like swiss chese. And problery because I am a cristian I feel quit gilty afterwards. In OFP you either shot or get shot.
STGN[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
It&#39;s not about horror, it&#39;s not about cool gore, it&#39;s not even about death. I want more LIFE on the battlefield. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[John C Flett]

More realistic damage for people would be a mixed blessing, it could really slow up a mission if you have to keep arranging medivacs.

For buildings and vehicle its a must though. Especially the idea of blowing things apart. Turrets coming of tanks or a house getting opened up while one wall crashes to the ground ( producing a pile of bricks in the process ).

Also the idea of penetration for weapons. Again a must.

I think having played OFP for so long that players can handle the levels of realism if the interface is sufficiently obvious. In cases like this it wouldn&#39;t force players to think much more but could offer reward for those who do.

[Schoeler]

Again, you could have the ability to select level of realism, and/or turn off/on gore options. Realistic injuries just add to that sense of battlefield immersion. I think realistic immersive games about warfare are important, to me, anything less is a sell out on what warfare really is, and what war is all about. I don&#39;t think making war seem painless and exciting/fun is a very good thing. We do the next generation a disservice by making it seem so.

[Jinef]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Impavido @<hidden> 10 May 2003,17:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Trying to conrol a falling rock that you&#39;re strapped into sounds thrilling&#33;&#33;  
http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif AHHHHHHHH&#33; IM GOING DOWN&#33;&#33;&#33;
CRASH&#33;[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Uhh, we are meant to autorotate so we don&#39;t all die, but that&#39;s in theory of course, in reality we all die.

With helicopter crashes the grunts just have to brace and ride it out, some of them will die but others won&#39;t. The Blackhawk i think can do a 12 G landing and not suffer damage due to shock absorbers. With an auto rotation in theory it should be quite survivable.

Also when it crashes fire extinguishers fire off and flood the engines with a &#39;fire retardant&#39; (co2 maybe). So no big explosions please, i wouldn&#39;t fly helicopters if they flew anything like they do in OFP, deathtraps.