Everyone will want one...

[Papageorge]

I know you all hate how the M113 just gets blown away by a BMP... so lets fight back.. with the AAAV. I can't make one. I don't have the skills, nor the time. As I leave in 23 days. But here is the Ultimate link

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/aaav.htm

[ExtracTioN]

thats a cool vehicle there dude and I believe someone can make it and that back and front ramp in water for highspeed that can be maked too but I wonder if there is a thing that you make go in water fast enough??

[STS_SolidSnake]

tales of war made one

[Munger]

Nah, Tales Of War are making an AAV7. The AAAV is a different vehicle (successor to the AAV7).

[BlueJames]

it's very ugly

[edc]

Some of the ugliest weapons have been some of the best(A-10)

[Placebo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (edc @<hidden> Oct. 27 2002,02:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Some of the ugliest weapons have been some of the best(A-10)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
(Margaret Thatcher)

[Chronicles]

The vehicule in the picture at the URL up there seems to be a good opposing force to the BMP in light armor category

But after several test in those conditions :

2 complete squad of max quality M2A2 versus 2 complete squad of max quality BMP , each army start at the opposite side of the big airport of everon and move in Line formations in direction to the opposite army

Results and observations :

+/- 80% of the times , the expert M2A2 will destroy all the 8 expert BMP with only 3-4 loss for their side.

the 20% few times the expert BMP will destroy the entire M2A2 squad , they have only 2-3 BMP remaining.

From what i spectated as a civil unit (to not being taken as a target by the 16 tanks http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ) near the middle of the battle, the BMPs always had the advantage of the first fire with their main gun. But their problem is that they have difficulty, even in the expert setting (their quality setting at max level) to hit a mobile Bradley

Then just after the first fire from the BMPs , the Bradleys retailate with their TOW, and in expert setting, they are deadly with that weapon , every time it is a carnage in the 2 BMPs groups.

Sometimes in the tests , the M2A2s target few east armor in their first fire , so some BMP are hit by several TOW , letting others east units to move , but as they have the ability to fire a second TOW very quickly the BMP are really in hell most of the time.

When they used their 2 TOW , and wait for the reload, the few remaining BMP have their chance to take out the Bradley, but if the M2A2 have at this time the advantage of the number, the BMP are most of the time dead, the second batch of M2A2 fire will soon toast them all (the reload is not slow) .

The only time the BMP side won, it was that the 2 first round of TOW from the M2A2 was wasted to hit the same BMPs, but that is rare.

So it seems that the big opposite force to the BMP is already here and its name is the Bradley , but the AAAV in the URL looks very interesting for the light armor category

[USMC Sniper]

Which BMP did you test, bmp or bmp2?

[Chronicles]

BMP only, as the first post of this thread seems to be a quest about an opponent to the BMP


but i will redo my test with BMP2 now that you talk about it, i never tried that match http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Chronicles]

I hade some tests, exactly same conditions, 2 squads of expert M2A2 versus 2 squads of expert BMP2 (this time instead of BMP)

Each army on the opposite side of the huge Everon airport (i put enough distance to give the time to the BMP2 guys to LOAD one AT5 before the battle)

And this time it is not something like 80/20 % for the Bradleys with some loss for them , but much more 99/1 % for the Bradleys with NO LOSS , but i think it is a very bad BMP2 AI for their stupid choice of weapon in battle.

The first fire is at the advantage of the BMP2 , but instead of firing the deadly AT5 when they are at range , they choose to open the battle with rounds of 30mmAP  and continue with that.
But after some rounds (they havent destroyed one M2A2 each time i tested), the M2A2 retaliate with TOW when BMP2s are at range (good AI for them) , and it is just good bye BMP2 , they stop firing , try to move but the second TOW fire make them joining the bad AI heaven.

the 1% time the BMP2 side win was when i put myself gunner of one of the BMP2 (i wanted to check why no BMP succeeded in destroynig at last one M2A2) , instead of choosing the 30mmAP , i switch to AT5 , lock one Bradley in the distance, shoot, then switch to 30mmAP , one Bradley is destroyed , and i manage to take another with the 30mmAP fire and i have even the time of depleting some of the armor of one other before a hell lot of  TOW arrive directly at me and blow up my tank.

That is the only time  2 Bradleys were destroyed in those tests , and BMP2 win the match , only because the majority of the M2A2 choose to waste their TOW on me.

and at this moment only , the other expert AI BMP2 decided to switch to AT5 and destroy some M2A2 , then their 30mmAP destroyed the Bradleys left (the M2A2 were not in good condition because of the first fire 30mmAP of the BMP2)

But in the process, some M2A2 destroyed the majority of the BMP2 with the TOW they have reloaded
Only one BMP2 survived.

This time , i think that the BMP2 AI was very stupid in comparison with the M2A2 AI , they used their AT5 only in second hand &#33;
The first match M2A2 vs BMP was more interesting, the BMP actually destroyed some M2A2 and even won some test match

Note : I was using 1.46 , i dont know if the BMP2 AI is changed to something comparable to the very good M2A2 AI.

[Papageorge]

... You are aware of the hole point of this Post correct chronicles? The M2A2 Bradly is a light tank. The BMP, BMP2, and BMP3 are Armored Personal Vechiles. That just happen to have guns. Lol. The AAAV is the West (Marines to be exact) way of dealing with the ageing Amphibious Assualt Vechiles. The whole idea was for somoene to make the AAAV so people like me, who love to do realism, can assualt a beach head with something that stands a chance against a BMP. Here I&#39;ve drawn my own conclusions too.

Amphibious landing 1:

1 M113 fully loaded with marines, crossing the river banks... Died from enemy BMP2 at Distance.

2 M113 Half in each with Marines, crossing the river banks... Died from Enemy BMP at Distance.

Get where I&#39; am trying to go?

[Chronicles]

I had no idea your point was only about the "water crossing" point of view, as the M2A2 have the capacity of transporting 6 soldiers (+the 3 crew members) , i thought your point was about a good transport vehicle , armored and with destruction capacity.

sorry to disturb your post

But, the M2A2 makes a good submarine , too bad everybody die inside.

[Mr ThunderMakeR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Papageorge @<hidden> Oct. 27 2002,06:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">... You are aware of the hole point of this Post correct chronicles? The M2A2 Bradly is a light tank. The BMP, BMP2, and BMP3 are Armored Personal Vechiles. That just happen to have guns. Lol. The AAAV is the West (Marines to be exact) way of dealing with the ageing Amphibious Assualt Vechiles. The whole idea was for somoene to make the AAAV so people like me, who love to do realism, can assualt a beach head with something that stands a chance against a BMP. Here I&#39;ve drawn my own conclusions too.

Amphibious landing 1:

1 M113 fully loaded with marines, crossing the river banks... Died from enemy BMP2 at Distance.

2 M113 Half in each with Marines, crossing the river banks... Died from Enemy BMP at Distance.

Get where I&#39; am trying to go?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Actually both the Bradley and BMP are IFV&#39;s (infantry fighting vehicles). The bradley is the what the US army replaced its M113&#39;s with.

The AAAV has a totally different combat purpose than both the M113 and BMP. AAAV&#39;s are meant for high speed ship-to-shore operations and are only used by the US Marines. Although M113&#39;s and BMPs have fording capabilities (used to cross rivers etc.), they are too slow and are not sea-worthy enough to be used in an amphibious assault.

BTW, although BIS didnt care to include it in the Bradley, it DOES have fording capability in real life.

[Eviscerator]

yeah, i thought i remembered being able to cross rivers in a bradley in some rts game....

[TYsiEK]

Somewhere is availble for download this aav7. In some USMC Pack.

[Eviscerator]

ok, for anyone still thinking we are talking about the AAV7, this is an AAV7:
http://globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/aav7a.jpg
http://globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/aavp7a1-dvic381.jpg

and this is what we are talking about, the AAAV(Advanced Amphibious Assault vehicle):
http://globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/aaav-atr1.jpg
http://globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/aaav-atr2.jpg


everyone clear on that?

[Scorpio]

BAS are making an AAAV, it will be done when the chopper projects are finished.

[N.o.R.S.u]

BMP2&#39;s AT5 and BMP&#39;s AT3 reload time is so slow compared to M2A2&#39;s TOW launcher so no wonder that BMP usually looses the battle.

Back to topic.
AAAV would be nice for amphibious assaults because the M113 is so weak like proved here. Hmm looks like that AAAV isn&#39;t very hard to model. I could try to make the model in MD3 format and then someone with 3DS Max could export it into *.3ds for Oxygen.

[ExtracTioN]

Will the AAV that BAS will make gona have the option when in water to open ramps and go fast in water?

[JJonth Cheeky Monkey]

Doesn&#39;t the AAAV have tracks that go up into compartments in the hull, like the wheels on aircraft, this makes them go faster still in water.

[ran]

no

[Maraudeur]

Yes http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Wheels and tracks retracts to the bottom hull level while front and side skirts extends.

[ran]

you sure ?
all the hydrolical , electrical or whatever machinery should add some weight that couldn&#39;t be compensed by the vehicle&#39;s speed and other gadgets
but ampibian assault vehicles aren&#39;t my stuff http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Maraudeur]

Yes yes. This is necessary to reach the service speed of 20 knots without too much drag.

By now, hydropneumatic suspensions are even smaller and not heavier than classical torsions bars, springs and dampers.
And the hull volume is huge so you still have a great floatability reserve ( by near one third of the total mass if I remember correctly ).

[ran]

but then , the chassis should be weak , shouldn&#39;t it ?

[advocatexxx]

The Best APC in OFP is without any doubt the Bradley. Its ability to fire 2 TOW missiles without reloading is enough to make it an APC with the most firepower. Too bad BIS didn&#39;t implement AP bullets for its chaingun (Bradley should be able to fire HE and AP rounds, just like the BMP2). Not to mention that BMP-1 should not fire Sabot rounds whatsoever, only HE-FRAG.

[ran]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Maraudeur @<hidden> Oct. 28 2002,17:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes yes. This is necessary to reach the service speed of 20 knots without too much drag.

By now, hydropneumatic suspensions are even smaller and not heavier than classical torsions bars, springs and dampers.
And the hull volume is huge so you still have a great floatability reserve ( by near one third of the total mass if I remember correctly ).[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
i don&#39;t want to imagine what would happen if the aaav would jump on a mine ....
mechenic marmelade http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif no more suspension hehehe

[Maraudeur]

Weak, weak....well yes but not so uch than many other light armoured vehicules.
I would be surpised if the hull could resist impacts from bullets bigger than 12.7X108 AP, but this is common limits for AFV..
14.5mm AP should be the minimum, plus reactive armour for light hollow charges. But.... except those of the AFV 90 who gave it stong armour and design for well integrated upgrades, none conceptor considered this as a necessity LOL.

Some can resist bigger projectiles as the AFV 90 A3s but lacks amphibious capabilitys or older design Bradleys A3s with added plates, greatly reducing mobility.

AAAV seems to be a great machine except the fact I really do not understand its utility.
I explain my thoughts : the concept is ancient, and by now where heavy machineguns and light rockets like RPG are widespreadly diffused, the research of a compromise beetween speed and protection is a mistake.

During amphibious operations, the speed will help but the thing will be a target of choice on the beach.

Even in peace recovery missions this may be unapropriate, imagine beaching by now in Beyrouth or Mogadiscio http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Excepts if naval artillery, choppers and spec foreces did the cleaning before, but then LCACs are better platforms for transport http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

This cannot be a combat vehicule, Checnya war learns that will remain two types : very heavily armoured vehicules, and very mobile infantry units using intensively artillery support, some cases even in urban direct fire ( or working alone with thermobaric weapons, acting like commandos. )


I do not know if there is links for the AAAV, I will search -- surely some exists --

try FAS for a first shoot

[Maraudeur]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @<hidden> Oct. 28 2002,17:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i don&#39;t want to imagine what would happen if the aaav would jump on a mine ....
mechenic marmelade http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif no more suspension hehehe[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Ah yes And I forgot mines LOL, South africans and Russians APC are more prepared to that growing warfare &#33;&#33; http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Sure most APCs do not like mines at all &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
The whole vehicule should have major problems LOL

But hydropneumatics suspensions may be as strong than classical ones but heavy, or there is the choice to select a point where the system will broke in order to replce just one piece easily, example a part of the axle beetween the roadwheel and the suspension arm.

[JJonth Cheeky Monkey]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (advocatexxx @<hidden> Oct. 28 2002,17:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Best APC in OFP is without any doubt the Bradley.  Its ability to fire 2 TOW missiles without reloading is enough to make it an APC with the most firepower.  Too bad BIS didn&#39;t implement AP bullets for its chaingun (Bradley should be able to fire HE and AP rounds, just like the BMP2).  Not to mention that BMP-1 should not fire Sabot rounds whatsoever, only HE-FRAG.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Going OT a bit, I think in V1.0 you could see the Sagger missile on the top of the BMP1, now though its not there, i dont know why. Anyway I agree the BMP1 should not be able to fire Sabots. There was an updated M113 called the FMC AIFV or somet, it is better armoured and armed, i think it has a 25mm Oerlikon Cannon, an M240 MG and firing ports, it was meant to be a cheaper alternative to the Bradley.

[Ruskiesrule]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @<hidden> Oct. 27 2002,02:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (edc @<hidden> Oct. 27 2002,02:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Some of the ugliest weapons have been some of the best(A-10)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
(Margaret Thatcher)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
HAHAHA&#33; now you&#39;ve had your laugh, don&#39;t ever mension his name again&#33;

[Munger]

His? http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[STS_SolidSnake]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ruskiesrule @<hidden> Oct. 28 2002,18:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @<hidden> Oct. 27 2002,02:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (edc @<hidden> Oct. 27 2002,02:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Some of the ugliest weapons have been some of the best(A-10)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
(Margaret Thatcher)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
HAHAHA&#33; now you&#39;ve had your laugh, don&#39;t ever mension his name again&#33;[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
who is she? and the fact that ruskie confused it with a men she must be ugly... very ugly...

[ran]

you guy never heard of mrs Thatcher http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif??
first minister at the time of the falklands war ... she could have won the war single handely by being dropped directly in Argentinia along with 2 SAS
she&#39;s called the Iron Woman
http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
and yes , she&#39;s ugly

http://www.margaretthatcher.com/

http://www.pixunlimited.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/gallery/2002/04/05/thatcher.jpg

[Mr ThunderMakeR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (advocatexxx @<hidden> Oct. 28 2002,17:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Best APC in OFP is without any doubt the Bradley.  Its ability to fire 2 TOW missiles without reloading is enough to make it an APC with the most firepower.  Too bad BIS didn&#39;t implement AP bullets for its chaingun (Bradley should be able to fire HE and AP rounds, just like the BMP2).  Not to mention that BMP-1 should not fire Sabot rounds whatsoever, only HE-FRAG.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I would have to agree with you except for the fact that BIS made it a royal pain in the ass to play commander on the bradley.

Without the ability to rotate the commanders view, it becomes next to impossible to assign targets to the gunner. Although it is realistic as far as the original Bradleys go, the more modern A2&#39;s and A3&#39;s have a separate rotating periscope for the commander.

It wouldnt be so bad if the gunner didnt always point the turret forward every time the bradley moves, maybe BIS could do some work on the bradley in a future patch??

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus]

Dang, that thing boogies in the water, how fast does it go when in water?

[[SW]striker]

30 knots appx in highspeed water mode

45-50 mph land mode

can&#39;t remember speed for transition mode

[Major Fubar]

I was hoping this thread had been dug up because someone had made an AAAV. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Acidcrash]

hmm, aye, oh well, only a matter of time before a mod closes it

[BlackDeath-CFH]

hmmm, lets make even MORE shit for west&#33;

fucking faggots

[USMC Sniper]

Jeez fonekill, theres no need to flame anyone for their opinion, IYDLIDDI. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[chaztheducky]

the 1 bad thing about the triple av (aaav, get it triple av) is that its armor is made of alinium not Alumimanum. the same stuff that they used in the original bradley apc&#39;s and m113&#39;s. it burn&#39;s and emits extreamly toxic gases when its hit by enemy shells. so it would stink to be in there if your aaav was hit and you were just a passenger. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[Beagle]

@<hidden>

Didn&#39;t you mean something like Aluminium alloys
Well, Al-Mg Alloy chips tend to ignite when hit by HEAT projektiles or hard-metal penetrators.

[chaztheducky]

its not chemical symbol al, but i think its like ala-minium or something very close. and yes my statement was true as to two months ago but i have no idea now. i relly hope they change it. i hate to see it take forever to get rolling like the ospry (sory i cant spell). that would be the coolist thing in ofp. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif  http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/xmas.gif


o you were right sory i guess im ilirilit to http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Scorpio]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @<hidden> Oct. 27 2002,03:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (edc @<hidden> Oct. 27 2002,02:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Some of the ugliest weapons have been some of the best(A-10)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
(Margaret Thatcher)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You got that right http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Gollum1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Papageorge @<hidden> Oct. 27 2002,07:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">... You are aware of the hole point of this Post correct chronicles? The M2A2 Bradly is a light tank. The BMP, BMP2, and BMP3 are Armored Personal Vechiles.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Are YOU aware of the hole in YOUR post? The BMP2, BMP3 and M2A2 are roughly equal IFVs. That´s infantry fighting vehicles.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FoNeKiLL @<hidden> Dec. 26 2002,04:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">hmmm, lets make even MORE shit for west&#33;

fucking faggots[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
No flaming please.

[pzvg]

The AAAV is not that hot folks,
Take a good look in game terms without all that sales pitch hype,

It&#39;s a bradley that swims better, has a larger target shape, and <most important to FMC> costs twice as much.

Go ahead and make one if you must, but only a Maaa-Reen
would consider it an improvement http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard301/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Oh and on the subject of ATGM ROF BMP vis a vis M2, well the BMP could have a better ROF than the Bradley, but Russian designers didn&#39;t think a 2 tube launcher was that important <not that it is IRL, any brad that stayed in position after firing 1 missile deserves to have his ass handed to him>

[Benze]

Errrr...that&#39;s quite a simplification.

It has a better cannon (actually, now it has one in the first place) can travel at unbelievable speeds in water for an IFV carrying 18 people, and that&#39;s another thing, it costs twice as much, but carries three times the people.

As for the armor, well, at MINIMUM it can withstand 14.5mm. With extra armor likely added on land missions, well? Who knows.

[pzvg]

No, you are making it out to be less than simple, that&#39;s all.

It won&#39;t stop an RPG, It still can&#39;t swim faster than a bullet, and,

It holds 18 people, big whoop, last time I checked, Marine rifle squads didn&#39;t contain 18 people anyway, so unless there was a pressing need to get a USO tour to the beach in a hurry, It&#39;s still big,pricey, and not exactly what it was contracted to be.

<hint GAO MFP 1985-114 is a public document, if you can find it>