W ?

[Cane]

Yesterday my small sister started complaining that ther isn't a single female unit in the game. Maybe, female civilians could be implemented or female assasins like in Half-life.

[Cybergangster]

I'd agree with female civilian units but I don't think women where serving in combat until the Gulf War. Am I correct in this assumption?

[Damage Inc]

There is a female doctor as an unofficial addon. And there is that Russian secretary.

[VIIL Max]

Female units hardly faught during ww2 serving on first line under russian flag. The first "historical fighting woman" has been a certain Camilla who faught with Latin army against Trojan army around Rome: about 2500 years ago. Gulf war? Nuts...

[Gorgi Knootewoot]

When a (unofficial) addon contains women.................... add a nudepatch too. Or give them a fishtail, so we can have sirenes who lure the russians into the sea with there singing.

Gorgi

----------
Better one tit in your hand, then ten behind a skirt
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[Bert ex 22bty RA]

The sad reality is that the only women you are likely to on a battle field would be helicopter pilots. Women only serve in background units (artillery, engineers etc) something to do with male pride methinks ;)

[The Jub-Jub Bird]

The reason woman don't fight as frontline troops is to do with the amounts of adreniline and all those chemicals that is pumped into our bodies in times or fear and extreme pressure which is different and makes men better soldiers. Women are proven however to be better fighter pilots becasue lower levels of adrenaline are pumped to the brain and they keep their cool for longer and efficiently keep control of a potentially difficult task. But on the battle field men, who will have higher concentrations of adrenaline in their body will be more able to act on impulse quickly and much more efficiently.

Don't quote me on the biology, I am no scientist. Its just what I remember from some documentary on these things. its probably all utter crap and I've got it all jubbled up, but its something like that.

But the main reason there are fewer women on the battlefield is because they're not stupid enough to be there. Like me they'd keep their distance from those pointy flying metal things.

[Bert ex 22bty RA]

Not to mention the fact that not many women can put 60-90lbs of kit on their back and then tab for 10 miles before contacting the enemy!
Good point though, another reason is that women keep conciuosness(?) longer than men at high level g-forces.
Keep smiling

[Brass]

people, people, i can see the strain in your text trying to be politically and sexually correct.
civvy ladies, YEAH, great idea, i thought of it a few moths ago in this forum, somewhere...

anyway, jub has taught me something, its quite interesting, that i didnt know.
let me tell you something else: the british army allowed women to join the army freely a few years ago, but there has been a less than enthusiastic reply.
most women that did join up couldnt cope with the gruelling conditions to which they had to obide by, equally as did the men. physically, women's bodies arent made for fighting, i cant say im a scientist, but its something to do with muscle and stuff. so they generally get tired quicker. this is of course in general, im sure there are some gi ganes.

its proven.
i do agree that women play a greater role off the battlefield as mechanics and support staff. maybe having female drivers and pilots would be good. so in other words, it wouldnt take a lot to change a few curves on the models. and if you want female soldiers, get the angelina model and give it some weapons, its just as capable.

what do you think of my views? this point has been done over and over again, its just got boring

[Bert ex 22bty RA]

Personally, having served with women, they couldnt hack it most of the time. 'This radio weighs too much.' 'I'm not running that far.' and the countless other excuses that were given spring to mind.
On the other hand they weren't all ugly and some could do their jobs really well. Swings and roundabouts at the end of the day. The Army should be more pickky if you ask me.(not that you are!)

[SelectThis]

You mean something like this?

http://users.bigpond.net.au/SelectThis/femaleblack.jpg

SelectThis

(Edited by SelectThis at 2:08 pm on Nov. 7, 2001)

[supergrunt]

gentleman please dont put women down that way

being military myself i see a lot of women who are in fighting units these days and keep in mind that the most women are capable of much more then we give credit for

(help me !! im being taken hostage by my girlfriend right now)

[Devildog815]

I'm no scientist on this subject nor do I even know anyhting as to why a female isnt allowed combat MOS (i dont know what other services call their military occupations so bear with me)(although fighter pilots are combat MOS and the women do a d*amn fine job) but as long as I were in a firefight and and a female came to my aid, they'd be able to do their job. I wouldnt care one way or the other.

[The Jub-Jub Bird]

Very true, one thing I also forgot was that men are just naturally more aggressive. Oh and people please don't quote me on all the information I gave above or use it in any biology essays, information from my brain is very dubious at the best of times.

More to the point though where are the civilian woman on these islands? Are the islands like Lesbos island and entirely single sexed or something?

[Brass]

yep!
everon... l..e...s...b...o...s
"dont quote me on that"

[sgtdwetzel]

Also think about......

Your'e in a heavy firefight-many casualities. You hear screams - from both male and female comrades. Who are you going to help first???
AND - how are you going to take it, seeing a woman blown into pieces by a mortar round, or that female bleeding out because you can't get to her.
AND AND - what if that female thats hurt is the one you have been sleeping with(or girlfriend, or worse yet WIFE)http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif?
WHAT DO YOU DO?http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Don't kid yourselves guys - one of the reasons that females aren't allowed in front line combat units(in the US) is because WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO HANDLE THE ABOVE SCENARIOS. I don't think I could.

[eyes]

I get quite annoyed with overuse of 'politically correct' views. Don't get me wrong I'm not sexist and I do agree that if a woman is better for a job (as people have mentioned of pilots) then then give it to her.
HOWEVER, in the UK we don't have a huge army but historically - and it's still true today - we have one of the best trained armies in the world. We don't have conscription (which lowers the quality) and we don't have an excessive amount of infantry.
My point is that if we want to keep the (in my opionion) best trained army in the world then we need to have ONLY the best people. I heard a little while ago two things that really pissed me off.

1. Women don't have to reach the same entry levels as me.
This makes me angry cos if a man has to run a certain distance in a certain time to get in but a woman doesn't have to run as far or as quick doesn't this suggest that she is not as good? It makes no sense in a military view only a PC view. This is not good for the army.

2. A while back there was a big media argument about allowing disabled people into the army.
Jesus Christ! I've got nothing against disabled people but I wouldn't trust them to defend the country. People were saying stuff like "well they could be cooks or general staff". Well I'm afraid cooks and general staff probably have to fight too if your base gets attacked. I can just see an army from a non PC country attacking - big strong healthy men charging with machine guns and rifles firing, our Politically Correct army of 1/4th men 1/4th women 1/4th disabled 1/4th blind.

I'm not some uninformed kid or dumb and prejudiced, I just wanted to be NON-PC and say that sometimes we should do whats in the best interests of the country not the individual.

Sorry if I got off topic or offended anyone but thats my view.

[762WorldOrder]

Don't be sorry.

You are correct.

If you want to do a job right, you select the best tool. You don't worry about whether or not the other tools will be offended because they weren't chosen for the job. The answer is simple, they don't do the job as well.

Utilitarianism should be the rule in armed forces.

[The Jub-Jub Bird]

I totally agree. Woman are not as good fighters, they are not as aggressive or as efficient on the battle field. I irritates me the way women activists are always fighting for the right to do whatever a man can, in some cases they are withing reason, but they do have a habit of taking it too far. As soon as we did let them into the army in England most dropped out because "it wasn't for them" and the ones that keep going get lowered standards to achieve. I have nothing against women in the army, but on the front line where efficiency is key, best tools should be used.

[eyes]

did you hear about that female soldier who went awol in cyprus? her husband was worried for ages then months later found out she had bunked up with another soldier!

That sucks, but you can get it in any proffession so in itself it shouldn't be a reason for no women in the armed forces but there definately are reasons, like sgtdwetzel's (I've also heard that one from a lot of top brass).

It's important to remove sexism and bigotry, but the only reason I sincerly feel that way (and not just intelectually) is that I feel there are a lot of sexist situations these days AGAINST men 'cos it's swung too far for women in some cases.

I'm not saying I have it hard - I'm a White male just turning 20 so I don't really have much to b*tch about but sometimes it seems like everyone whose not young, white and male has a vendetta against you for it.

I can accept that in a way 'cos my girlfriend of two years is half asian half white and stuff like sexism and racism does get her pissed off with good reason (like when people are racist about asians right in front of her cos they don't realise).

What does annoy me is people holding a vendatta for s**t that happened to their ancestors, like it's genetic or something. I'm talking about young femenists who werent even ALIVE when their was any serious sexism or the stories I've read in the paper about african americans demanding compensation for the slave trade. If you think about it that's like punching some guy you've never met before because the great grandfather of someone from the same country as him punched your great grand father (follow that? http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif )

It's complicated and none of the issues are black and white - they're all shades of grey. But that's not an excuse to bow down to politcal correctness when you know it's wrong. I feel sorry when I see a British general on newsnight getting hounded by the presenter for not allowing women/disabled into the army. The general knows that it would hurt the army but he can't say that as it would be PR death and so in the end in the interest of PR concessions are made and bit by bit the army will deteriorate.

It's like the vietname war (follow me on this one) each leader had to report to the leader above and if it aint rosy then his career goes down the pan. Each leader knows his subordinate is lying but it doesn't matter cos he has to exagerate it for his superiors and in the end the pentagon hears all these amgnificent death tolls and how well the US is doing.

(Edited by eyes at 11:54 pm on Nov. 8, 2001)

[VIIL Max]

I'm from Italy and just now our army is changing as we are passing from a conscription system  to a professional army. Cause this reason, no more than one year ago they opened doors to women. Do you know what happened? We had thousands of female candidates but afer the first selection less than 10 yes, 10... passed the test (it was the same they use for men). What do you think they did? Easy... they managed another test with other parameters... Then another one even easier!!! At last they were able to announce: "lots of women passed the test". Do you think it makes sense?http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif?? I think world is getting crazy!!! 20 Years ago when I served under army as Leutenant we had a hard selection to be admitted to the officiers school! Just 1 on 5 passed those tests! Now I would like to know why the #### women can do it not cause they are able to do it... but just cause they are women!!!

(Edited by VIIL Max at 2:06 am on Nov. 9, 2001)

[chuanren]

i saw in my local newspaper that the italian army r sending women soldiers to the afghan war

[eyes]

I'm not a soldier - I'm studying a degree in computer science - but I really do understand how you feel. Sometime the world just makes you crazy in it's stupidity.

I have thought about joining the army in some form or another (I could become an officer if I join with a degree) and I'm about to apply for sponsorship from GCHQ (the UK communications intelligence center).
I really feel that certain key components of society are vital no matter how infrequently they appear to be used by the public.

I hate the way public services deteriorate because people are not prepare to pay the taxes and governments are afraid to ask. Instead schemes that are doomed from the beggining are implemented as some kind of miracle low cost cure.

It's the same with the army - the current way in Afghanistan is a farce because restrictions imposed on the military not by weather or danger or difficulty but by pr consultants and meadi moguls. You can never just go in and get the job done anymore becuse there are simply too many critics (the voters) that the men in charge ultimately have to answer to.

Gone are the days of best man for the job.
The one thing I really envy about about America is the one thing that is so scary to most (including me).
Patriotism. Beleiving your country is great, taking pride in it and doing whats best for it is, in my beliefe, the best thing for the people as well as the state.

Sadly in the UK the only people who call themselves patriotists are usually raciscts who don't understand the difference.

It's equal rights activists who force their tunnel viewed ideas like disabled people etc. in the army that do more harm than the good they intend.

[chuanren]

ok....i understand....

[supergrunt]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from sgtdwetzel on 6:46 pm on Nov. 8, 2001
Also think about......

    Your'e in a heavy firefight-many casualities.  You hear screams - from both male and female comrades.  Who are you going to help first???  
AND - how are you going to take it, seeing a woman blown into pieces by a mortar round, or that female bleeding out because you can't get to her.  
AND AND - what if that female thats hurt is the one you have been sleeping with(or girlfriend, or worse yet WIFE)http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif?
WHAT DO YOU DO?http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Don't kid yourselves guys - one of the reasons that females aren't allowed in front line combat units(in the US) is because WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO HANDLE THE ABOVE SCENARIOS.  I don't think I could.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


in holland we are used to it (everybody sleeps with eachother)

[chuanren]

hmmmmmmm....hard question
woman in the frontline sometimes burdens the men...but sometimes they 'boost' their morale

[Frizbee]

The true (and Official) reason why Women are not allowed to serve in Front Line Combat positions (Ie. Infantry) in Western Armies:-

Women are more suceptible to disease if they do not keep proper hygien.. (sp??) - that is.. Infantry units sometimes don't have access to baths or showers for days.. sometimes weeks on end. Women in that situation (due to their periods etc.) can get ALOT more... and more deadly diseases than men in that situation.

Therefore... they can not be allowed in that situation.

As far as I am aware.. there are women in the SAS and other special forces units designed for quick strike/ Counter-terror missions.

[chuanren]

ya.....but they are still accepted

[Scooby]

Women are lighter to evacuate.

Remember that if someone lacks physical strenght it can be fulfilled with mental strenght.

At first we were told that: Before army you might have thought that all your powers are exchausted. Here you will find out that you can go alot longer"

Bit poorly translated but everyone should get the idea. Some man might seem to be physically strong but if he is mentally weak some physically weaker man / woman with stronger mental strenght can do better than him. At the end, mental strenght is always needed to keep you going. In a group of people with nearly same physical fitnesses those with strong mental strenght can push it further.

[VIIL Max]

Scooby, I agree but that's not the point. A "person" is not a body and is not a mind... A person is a whole: body + mind, is it right? The point is that parameters to be admitted in the army and to serve in front line should be the same, without differences between men and women. I read here: "women are not so strong"... that's a silliness as it's a generalization. I know there are women winning olimpyc games: they are stronger, faster and more trained than me and 99,99% of we all. Right? Im my vision to fight on first line you have to have a certain score (body, mind and so on). The ones passing that score should be "accepted", theyr sex doesn't matter... But, f*** ####, the score has to be the same!

[chuanren]

make sense

[supergrunt]

exactly like i said before women aren't alway less

they just pretend to be

[chuanren]

yah......

[eyes]

my point isn't that women aren't as good so shouldn't be allowed in - my point is they should have to pass the SAME tests as men otherwise it makes a mockery.

For example say you have to run 2 miles in 5 minutes and a guy applies but fails as he only makes it in 6 minutes. Then a woman applies and does it in 8 but her pass mark is 10 minutes not five and she is allowed in. Does that make sense? No.

[VIIL Max]

Not too much sense! If u run 2 miles in 5 you are not a man... You are a horse! LOL

[eyes]

ok so the times and distances are a bit off (I got confused with what I run on the treadmill at the gym, only I just realised thats in Km!) http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
But you get my point?

[VIIL Max]

Sure I did... I was just teasing u ;-)

[sgtdwetzel]

It jsut occured to me....we haven't heard from AvonLady in this topic yet. She is a member of the IDF, and would prob....should I say DEFINATELY have a good viewpoint on women in the military. Israel has had women serving in their armed forces pretty much as long as they have been a country.
If anybody sees her, see if you can get her to post a comment (or 2, or 3....) I would really like to hear her view on this matter. I'm going to shoot her an e-mail, and hope she can give us her viewpoint.

[Birkoff]

Ehm here in Norway we do have females in most fields of the Army, from Sergeants to F16 fighter pilots to Tank commanders, enginers, artillery support, tactical(hq), or regular soldiers. Their not many and its voluntary so far but those of them who dare, they can go real far (i.e. F16 combat fighter pilot:)

[eyes]

Despite the impression my posts have probably given I do agree that women should be given the opportunity to be in the army. I just believe that if you want equality it has to be full. They should have to reach the same level of fitnes, strength, skill, ability, etc otherwise you are not achieving equality and you are bound to damage the quality of your army (and probably hurt morale in the process).

[Bert ex 22bty RA]

Eyes, Im on your side there mate. It was so annoying for me and the lads to do a BFT and CFT in full gear and weight, and then watch the ladies do 10 1/4 pull ups (imagine a press up and invert it) while we are having to do those fecking annoying 'full' pull ups. ( I thought I would breeze the pull ups, 15 to 20, but you have to fully extend your elbows and relax completely and you cant get into a proper rhythm). btw British army, without doubt is the best trained in the world!!

[xyouthx]

one big reason for not having women on the front lines until recent days (maybe i should just make that "in the past 500 years or so") has been politics.
people simply don't like seeing dead women shipped home in body bags.
i believe however that this attitude is changing.

[Dingo]

I agree with women in logistics and Intelligance and pilots , transport and dare I say it cooks etc but as a frontline combat troop doesn't make sense to me physically if women cant do the same PT at the same rate as males it darn right dangerous in close combat . I don't care how mentally tough she is physicaly they are not as suited .

[chuanren]

in isarel...female soldiers are common....same here in singapore

[eyes]

It's when you start getting 'quotas' on how many people in your organisation should be a certain 'type' that quality goes out the window. So long as the selection process is equall for all then eventually you will get a fair propotion of the population in your workforce. If you start saying things like "at least 25% must be female by the end of the year" you put yourself in a position where you stop hiring on ability and have to take other factors into view.

I'm studying a degree on computing at Southampton University which is the second best uni in the world for computing. When I leave I expect prosective employers to look at my education, my qualifications, my portfolio and my skills and nothing else. THAT'S equality - not turning me down for a job cos I won't help fill the quota of a certain minority.

[Chipper]

Ofp resistance has female units and if you get the editor_update102 you can use angelina&#33;

[Major Fubar]

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Threads older than 4 months should not be dug up unless something significant is being added. If in doubt as to what is "significant" PM a moderator and they will give you their opinion. As always old threads will remain open or be closed at the moderator&#39;s discretion.

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