Mission Editor

[Monotone]

Since 2001,this franchise of the game is developed for more than 10 years.
But the only thing remains itself as it was in ARMA:CWA is 2D mission editor.
Although this vestigiality is very central factor of the simulator and most of players spend hundreds of hours with this,I haven't seen almost no progress for editor in ARMA3.

As devs occasionally says,we can agree that current style of the editor in ARMA is quite sophisticated when we compare it with editor in other games.
Yet nothing in our world is ideal and so there is some room for progress,from minor things (for example,I'd like to operate multiple units at once in group mode) to radical reform(just like integration with 3D editor which is mentioned in ARMA3).
And the editor is implemented in .exe file of game,community can't make improvement for the editor and devs need to improve the editor on their hands.

Have you seen any improvement for the editor in Arma3?
Or post your idea for editor improvement.

[Timnos]

Or post your idea for editor improvement.

Steel Beasts Pro PE has a scenario editor where complex routes, waypoints, formations, spacing, speed, tactics and so forth can be planned pre-game and you can continue commanding your units via a map screen in real time during missions. It would be heaven to have this in ArmA3.
Example -

FVks1RLZQuU

[RedneckNerd]

Cant wait to try the new editor, Alpha's comin soon.

---------- Post added at 00:33 ---------- Previous post was at 00:19 ----------

Had lots of fun with the Arma 2 Editor

[Tonci87]

I really hope we get a proper working 3D Editor this time...

[sgtsn1per]

Dont get your hopes up guys

[EricM]

a scenario editor where complex routes, waypoints, formations, spacing, speed, tactics and so forth can be planned pre-game and you can continue commanding your units via a map screen in real time during missions. It would be heaven to have this in ArmA3.

I'm not following you... How is that different from what we have already in A2 ? I can plan waypoints, complex routes, with different behaviours (including formations and such) at each stop and continue to command all the rest via High Command module...


Dont get your hopes up guys

We already have a hidden 3D editor in A2 and it's been more or less confirmed for A3,hasn't it already ?

[Gilson]

3D Editor is /confirmed/, the 2D editor is being shipped with the community alpha.

[Hodgeasaurus]

(for example,I'd like to operate multiple units at once in grope mode)

I don't know what game you're playing, but I think you should keep it to private time.

Anyway, what Gilson said -

3D Editor is /confirmed/, the 2D editor is being shipped with the community alpha.

[Timnos]

I'm not following you... How is that different from what we have already in A2 ? I can plan waypoints, complex routes, with different behaviours (including formations and such) at each stop and continue to command all the rest via High Command module...

In Steel Beasts Pro PE you can attach conditions to routes. What this means is that multiple paths can branch from multiple waypoints, the units will embark, retreat, or take alternate routes or actions depending upon which conditions are satisfied. For example a units movement instructions will take into account factors such as damage, fuel levels, suppression, taking fire, losses, etc. and then select the appropriate course of action.

[Praelium]

I'd like to have templates for basic gameplay scenarios, such as an AI ambush on an AI convey. Programming the AI to do that type of stuff can be difficult so it'd be nice if BIS included these within the editor.

[De_little_Bubi]

I'd like to have templates for basic gameplay scenarios, such as an AI ambush on an AI convey. Programming the AI to do that type of stuff can be difficult so it'd be nice if BIS included these within the editor.

This could be easily done with just providing missions as templates (saved in the editor format not as ready compiled mission - so that you can load them in the editor).
There is a mission merge function in the editor since ofp. You could just merge this scenarious in your mission and move it at the position you want.

[Monotone]

I picked up some from DH.



Copy/paste of playable units forgets "playable" status, defaults to None.
https://dev-heaven.net/issues/4458

Placing Playable Units
https://dev-heaven.net/issues/16963
(https://dev-heaven.net/issues/16963)
These seems easy to fix but crucial for convenience.
I suggest that instead of extend function of copy&paste,enable to operate multiple unit is better solution for wider scene.

Weapon Loadout Tab in Editor
https://dev-heaven.net/issues/10729

This is what most people want.
But annoying of weapon loadout can be solved partially with using gear script such as shk_gear (http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?89952-SHK_gear).
So,direction that makes comprehensive improvement is not adding more pull down tab but integration with script editor.
The script editor should have emphasis and complement like ArmA Edit (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=1455).
I think unfriendly "init" line in unit or trigger should be refurnished to decent text editor.

The mission editor should link to the BIKI.
https://dev-heaven.net/issues/22118

The text editor also should have full script help as kju argues.
If in-game editor has function of hyperlink and search for script commands,we can be free from time loss and frustration!

[ziiip]

I don't know what game you're playing, but I think you should keep it to private time.

Anyway, what Gilson said -

Ahahah. :D

[EBass]

I'd really really like a few things added to the editor just to simplify some things. Don't whine at me, I know the Arma editor is way way simpler to use than most other editors but there are some things that really should be doable without scripting. Just for a couple of examples.

A) Spawning: Would love some functionality to add this as a trigger function. I.e make is so you can group a group to a trigger and have them spawn in (with waypoints and all) on the trigger firing.

B) Adjusting heights of things, should be able to just do it by maybe clicking the entity and pressing shift+up incrementally or something rather than doing it with numbers in the init.

Things like that

[Mr Burns]

Or post your idea for editor improvement.

layers, like in Photoshop - if you ever made a too big mission you know why it´s needed
integrated text editor and browser shell - for no more alt+tab, writing description.ext & .sqf´s on the fly
integrated briefing editor - because you know only the hardest learn to actually write one right now, and that´s too few
integrated gear selection - no more removallweapons this; this addmagazine "xyz"; this addweapon "xyz"; this addmagazi.... etc.
(re)enable -showscripterrors by default!
how about a snap-to feature? or better 2d icons for easier placement..


Must´ve forgotten something, but this it is, plus of course everything else mentioned in this thread until now :)

[Sniperwolf572]

(re)enable -showscripterrors by default!



This would be so much better as an option somewhere ingame instead of a commandline switch.

[bgivenb]

There is some really good discussion going on here :D I hope the devs read this.

One suggestion that I like the most, is the introduction of an ingame wiki. This would be sooooo nice :yay:

oh, having photoshop like layers would be cool

[Monotone]

I've managed to find the sketch of improved editor which Karlgustaffa drawn (http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?26354-Improved-unit-editor&p=1632095&viewfull=1#post1632095) 2 years ago.


https://dev-heaven.net/attachments/5933/4624044651_8536c529ab_o.jpg
And I found that there is already a ticket for what I really need to improve.

https://dev-heaven.net/issues/20086
Editor improvements
Description:
Remove the hassle of alt+tabbing by handling all script and folder editing, creation, deletion and organization in the editor would be a major asset to the people making missions.
Just a simple in-game hierarchy/folder view of the mission you are working on.
Create NEW scripts from within the game, have syntax highlighting and a tab-auto-complete like eclipse along with function descriptions with custom functions also being loaded with descriptions that you specify.

[Igneous01]

Something that would be great for the editor would be waypoint objects that hold collections of waypoints. The convenience in this is that with a trigger I can easily change a groups current patrol area (maybe random patrols in a circle) and then assign them to take a path down a road to signify them being alerted and checking it out. With this you can also have triggers to take multiple pathways for multiple units. Because they are objects and are independent to any unit, more than one group of units can patrol the same collection of waypoints.

A show/hide waypoint layer would be needed, seeing this could get very complex, but overall it would simplify adding dynamic choices for groups.

[Tonci87]

I've managed to find the sketch of improved editor which Karlgustaffa drawn (http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?26354-Improved-unit-editor&p=1632095&viewfull=1#post1632095) 2 years ago.


https://dev-heaven.net/attachments/5933/4624044651_8536c529ab_o.jpg
And I found that there is already a ticket for what I really need to improve.

https://dev-heaven.net/issues/20086
Editor improvements
Description:
Remove the hassle of alt+tabbing by handling all script and folder editing, creation, deletion and organization in the editor would be a major asset to the people making missions.
Just a simple in-game hierarchy/folder view of the mission you are working on.
Create NEW scripts from within the game, have syntax highlighting and a tab-auto-complete like eclipse along with function descriptions with custom functions also being loaded with descriptions that you specify.

That looks awesome, the only thing missing is a button to set a custom loadout

[GossamerSolid]

layers, like in Photoshop - if you ever made a too big mission you know why it´s needed
integrated text editor and browser shell - for no more alt+tab, writing description.ext & .sqf´s on the fly
integrated briefing editor - because you know only the hardest learn to actually write one right now, and that´s too few
integrated gear selection - no more removallweapons this; this addmagazine "xyz"; this addweapon "xyz"; this addmagazi.... etc.
(re)enable -showscripterrors by default!
how about a snap-to feature? or better 2d icons for easier placement..


Must´ve forgotten something, but this it is, plus of course everything else mentioned in this thread until now :)

Those are awesome suggestions, I'd love to see those in A3 as well.

I'm sick of alt-tabbing, it's really annoying.

I have one more thing to add to the list:

Catch description.ext errors and display error message in editor rather than causing CTD...

I don't know how many times that has happened to me.

[Monotone]

Something that would be great for the editor would be waypoint objects that hold collections of waypoints.
Your idea proposes to create "waypoint objects" that represent places to go,get in or destroy for not only single group but multiple groups,doesn't it?
If so,the "waypoint objects" should have priority to determine which is next point.
This is not just a matter of mission editor but designing AI because making preference is exactly making subject,not object!
Oh,it comes realm of ARMAVERSUM.

[Monotone]

In the interview of Gamestar.de (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=17263),

Q: How do you enhance the editor?
Dan: We've had to cut short our more ambitious plans regarding the editor recently. Due to missing resources, our goal in this area is currently to focus on improving the usability and experience of the classic mission editor from A2OA.
Devs said that they suspended their 3D editor for a while but polishing 2D editor.

I think this is large advance from the time just before released OA,when they had thought simply (http://http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Ask_Bohemia_(about_Operation_Arrowhead..._or_anything_else_you_want_to_ask)!#What_changes_are_being_made_to_the_ARMA_2_map_editor.3F)there is nothing to improve in 2D Editor.
I hope forthcoming improvement includes both community request and devs' their own creative and leading idea.

[Mr Burns]

Must´ve forgotten something...

I remember now!
please add the following to my list:


undo function - there are many possibilites to accidentially unalign, roatate or pull an object out of placement which you fiddled around with for quite some time.
Our own stupidness fills our hearts with rage when we do so, but theres no way to revert it.
A simple one step undo would be great, up that to a 2-5 step undo and it would be ArmAmazing !!!


autosave function - pretty please. Make it optionable, like yes/no, ammount of time for autosave, save it as seperate -autosave-mymissionname.island folder, etc.
If you love your beers like i do and tend to stay up late, you might have found yourself in the position already when you alt+f4´ed out for whatever reason only to get back ingame a minute later, realizing you haven´t saved the goddamn mission you´ve just spent an hour or two editing on *wraghargha*

[DMarkwick]

I'd like it so that when I "save-as", all the files are copied not just the BIS created ones.

[Phantom Six]

A history toolbar like in photoshop would be nice and an easy method to place units inside buildings would also be nice. Waypoint across buildings too would be nice. Well, so far for building placements, I just preview the mission, go in game, and have a trigger in radio that makes me to this to find the buildings position of where I'm standing to give it to the unit I want to start inside a building


copyToClipboard format ["this setPosATL %1;this setDir %2;",getPosATL player, getDir player];

[CarlGustaffa]

You could embed something like that into the debugger, which should be standard in Arma3. Example from a slightly modified version of Gaia's (dev) debug console mod for Arma2:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8431/7746419486_578194a69a_b.jpg (109 kB)

[Liquidpinky]

You could embed something like that into the debugger, which should be standard in Arma3. Example from a slightly modified version of Gaia's (dev) debug console mod for Arma2:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8431/7746419486_578194a69a_b.jpg (109 kB)

I am sure this is a standard feature in Take On already. I remember, possibly during the beta, being requested to get information from it to help the devs with some triple display issues at the time.
Hopefully will remain for the Alpha.

[Lucky44]

I have not found this anywhere else after looking, so I'll ask here: what is known about importing Arma2:OA (or CO) missions into Arma 3? Will .sqm files work? Will A2 units be possible in A3, without addons? Will it be a possible but difficult "translation"? Or just impossible?? Will map elements be copy/pastable, even in a script editor, working with .sqm files?

And more fundamentally, is it true that SQF will still be the base scripting language, but that others (Java friendly? like Python??) will be usable?

[KBourne]

I have not found this anywhere else after looking, so I'll ask here: what is known about importing Arma2:OA (or CO) missions into Arma 3? Will .sqm files work? Will A2 units be possible in A3, without addons? Will it be a possible but difficult "translation"? Or just impossible?? Will map elements be copy/pastable, even in a script editor, working with .sqm files?

I don't think it is allowed to do so, as per the Aula of bis, I think it will be somehow in the line of Arma armed assault and Arma2, in this case Bis will most likely release some sample models to use for modelling and editing units in arma3. However it would be great that Bis decides to make DLC's with Arma2 conversions or maybe integrate parts of Arma2 to Arma3 but this might be wishful thinking from my part, on the other hand we have also the community for that to do so in the end... so aether way we always have options to have conversions one way or the other as long if the rules are applied ..

kind regards

[OnlyRazor]

I don't think it is allowed to do so, as per the Aula of bis, I think it will be somehow in the line of Arma armed assault and Arma2, in this case Bis will most likely release some sample models to use for modelling and editing units in arma3. However it would be great that Bis decides to make DLC's with Arma2 conversions or maybe integrate parts of Arma2 to Arma3 but this might be wishful thinking from my part on the other hand we have also the community for that to do so in the end so aether way we always have options to have conversions one way or the other as long if the rules are applied ..


I think he's talking about mission files ie. User made missions, and how they would port from Arma 2 into Arma 3. However, they would require content from previous games, which would violate the terms.

[KBourne]

I think he's talking about mission files ie. User made missions, and how they would port from Arma 2 into Arma 3. However, they would require content from previous games, which would violate the terms.

Ah o.k. in that case it will violate the terms and that's a no go unless bis will do it for them selves for the community ....

kind regards

[luizsilveira]

I can't help but to second most requests here.

When even writing a few words on a briefing needs scripting you know user interface has gone massively wrong. Why do they advertise the mission editor as "easy to use" I don't know. It's easy to build a scenario but I bet most average computer users can't make a mission from start to end, setting up tasks to be completed with task hints etc. And this is a big shame, as all that could - and should - be very easy to do with any minimally user-friendly interface.

[W0lle]

And in the OFP days you had to use html to create a briefing. And I bet most average computer users back then (and even today) also had no clue about html. But still there were thousands and thousands of missions made.

There's just on difference between back then and today: Back in the OFP days people were working together and helping each other discovering new things and help each other.
Today the majority wants all on a silver platter and preferably not requiring more than 4 clicks to success.

There are excellent briefing scripts around, with them I make briefings in less than 15 minutes. Including taskhints and whatnot.
But this script has also one disadvantage "You need to put a little work and time into it to understand what is required.

And the editor interface is easy to use. The briefing is just not part of the "easy to use" mission editor.

[Liquidpinky]

And in the OFP days you had to use html to create a briefing. And I bet most average computer users back then (and even today) also had no clue about html. But still there were thousands and thousands of missions made.

There's just on difference between back then and today: Back in the OFP days people were working together and helping each other discovering new things and help each other.
Today the majority wants all on a silver platter and preferably not requiring more than 4 clicks to success.

There are excellent briefing scripts around, with them I make briefings in less than 15 minutes. Including taskhints and whatnot.
But this script has also one disadvantage "You need to put a little work and time into it to understand what is required.

And the editor interface is easy to use. The briefing is just not part of the "easy to use" mission editor.

Tools over generations improve, including software tools.
If they didn't I would be chiselling this into a rock next to you instead of typing it out.

Ass long as you don't turn it into a POS like all the recent updates to Word etc with their dumbass click so many time you get RSI just to print a frikken document.

[Lucky44]

OK, so I hear that any game content won't carry over to Arma 3. Makes sense.

But what about the scripting languages? What's the word on that?

EDIT: Aha, this helps explain, but it's too long to read it all... http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?128800-Take-On-Java/page1

[luizsilveira]

[...]
There's just on difference between back then and today: Back in the OFP days people were working together and helping each other discovering new things and help each other.
Today the majority wants all on a silver platter and preferably not requiring more than 4 clicks to success.

When the game is advertised as containing an "intuitive" mission editor, I think it's quite legitimate that people who buy the game expect to find an intuitive mission editor. No? And sorry but the mission editor is anything *but* intuitive.

If it wasn't advertised like that my guess is that many people would see the mission editor as a bonus and would be more willing to resign to the need of dedicating vast amounts of time to learn the basics. The community suffers because there will be many less mission-makers (and possibly less players) but other than that there is no real problem in the mission maker being a conundrum which needs long-term community work to figure out - as long as the advertisement which sells the game doesn't state exactly the opposite, that is.



There are excellent briefing scripts around, with them I make briefings in less than 15 minutes. Including taskhints and whatnot. Agreed. But the briefing was just an example of what, for me, is mind boggling. It can be just a bit of text, which would deserve just... a text box to edit the text. Want to leave the door open for more advanced users to script the thing? Fine. But I'm sure a great number of players out there would benefit from having a simple text box to edit/add a briefing, which can't be too much of a trouble to add to the editor in the first place. Back when I quit dealing with it, keeping simple things simple was a virtue in computer programming. Granted, one couldn't build a marvel like Arma but I think the baby was thrown away with the bath water.



But this script has also one disadvantage "You need to put a little work and time into it to understand what is required.

Yes, it has that disadvantage. And the advantage is...?

We clearly have two different conceptions of what "a little work and time" is. I'm not saying I can't do it but I don't think the work is so little to an average user. Let's face it, many many people (if not most, nowadays especially with DayZ) have a really hard time only to sort out the patches and mods so they can play online. Just that. I've seen a few players give up, even when I was on TS with them and trying to help, because they couldn't do just that. How much work do you think they would take to make a briefing? And tasks for completion?

Now... if the goal is leaving the Arma game to be enjoyed by just a small computer-gifted few who share their missions and mods among them and have fun, then I'm wrong and apologize. But my opinion is that it would be great to let more people enjoy the marvel Arma is, and I'm sure there are many more people out there who would do just that if the interface allowed them to.


And the editor interface is easy to use. The briefing is just not part of the "easy to use" mission editor.

Nor are the task creation and their management. Nor are taskhints. Nor is weapon loadout. Nor is the creation of dialogues, radio messages, ... nor are most of the modules (the medic is one example where there could be a simple on/off switch but instead there is a really bloated system). And all the rest. (not to speak about the user-unfriendliness of not having any tooltips, nor an undo button, etc.).

The only easy (intuitive!) thing on the editor interface is unit placement. Provided you don't place them close to buildings of course, or they risk falling from the sky and getting killed at mission start.

Yes, the community is great and there are tons of resources. But most of them are only needed because the original software has a huge gap to be filled between its power and the average user who wants to play a bit with it.

That is all IMHO of course

[NoRailgunner]

W0lle sounds a bit like a old fossil (no pun intendet!) who just don't want a change because making missions out of the box could be different or even more userfriendly. Somehow similar to those people who think or claim that a better interface/GUI could harm their own build "throne & privileges" or dreams of it..... Guess how fast those "old" people are cool with new stuff if you just let them use it ? Guess how long it will take to hear something "If only we could have this back in the days...." ;)

[Sniperwolf572]

The thing is, entire current mission editor is a fossil aswell, where not much changed since we first got our hands on it in OFP.

Good thing about it is that many things are possible if you know how, bad thing about it is that the learning curve for using it really effectively becomes very steep, very fast.
Basic understanding of scripting and some logical thinking become necessary, but there are some things that can really be made to be much more simple and accessible, like units starting distance from ground and basic unit gear setup.

It's all down to how much time BI wants to spend improving the editor experience and how far are they willing to go. It's not cheap or easy making interfaces that make sense. But it's also too much to expect that everyone can create super high quality missions without improving their skills regarding scripting and logical thinking. Some things require a bit of investment on the side of the mission maker, because they simply cannot be made with a few clicks and drags.

I'm familiar with this because I've spent evenings explaining in detail and with simple examples on how and why much of the editor and ingame stuff works and how to get desired results by thinking about a problem and using the BIKI as a reference. But the thing is, they wanted to get results without investing 1% of their time in learning how to do it. So after a few evenings teaching the infamous skill of adjusting height of objects, the only knowledge that the other person came out with is knowing the setpos getpos line by heart. How and why does it work? Not interested. It makes things float. And every now and then my chat window pops up from that person with the question "how did that setpos thing go again?"