Word on the street: Crewmen too weak!

[Aaron Kane]

 So I was doing the single mission in which you are a lone Black-op, must sneak into a base, and destroy tanks.  I shoot a guard outside the fence patrolling by himself with my MP5SD6, and he dies.  Of course, the alarm rings.

  So... I crawl into a small hole in the fence. and assume the gunner position in one of those T-80's.  I take out a few barracks with HEAT rounds (Even though the sleepy soldiers still walk out of destroyed buildings),  and had just gotten the lights turned on.  

   I'm feeling pretty confident in my new tank, since I've seen them kick ass before ingame, and start shooting soldiers around me, when suddnly, theres an explosion in front of me, then another, then I'm dead.  

  Turns out that two losers fired RPG's at me.  The first two disabled my cannon, while the third killed me inside the tank.  

    Now I propose a radical new reform... LET TANK CREW LIVE!  They are human too!  A modern tank might be disabled by RPG's, but in most instances the crew will survice, especially if the tank is protected by ERA, Chobbam, or some other protection.   Its bad enough to have to drive around in a busted up tank, but I think that crew should get out in full health, unless of course the tank is destroyed before they can get out.

   This sounds confusing, so I'll try to explain it better.  

   Your Abrams is hit by a T-80 twice times.  Your tank is pretty much screwed, the turret is jammed, the cannon isnt responding, and the commander spilled his Coke on the GPS.  The tank isnt a threat anymore, so the crew should be left alone!  They should be given a chance to haul-ass out of their before the ammo cooks off, killing them.

  Uh oh!  That darn T-80 fired another Sabot, and your tank explodes!  Well, you're dead.  It makes sense.    

  Its really annoying to have your tank in pretty good shape (Mostly light-yellow, maybe some darker yellow), only to find out the crew died.  The tank doesnt count as destroyed when kills are tallied, making the situation even more annoying.  If the crew stayed alive till the tank was dead, the AI would target those tanks, making missions faster and you would get a higher score (Like anyone cares)

 Crew who are turned-out should be vulnerable, of course, but crew who are turned in should be pretty much invulnerable.

(Edited by Aaron Kane at 11:04 pm on Nov. 17, 2001)

[Thehamster]

Funny that most times I take out a T-80 the crew bail out jusy before the explosion and then gun them down but when I take out a Abram the crew don't get out and are just blow up.

[The Jub-Jub Bird]

Well I see your arguement and your post was a great read and made me laugh a few times (coke on the gps, etc.). But the thing is most of the shells and rockets are in fact designed to kill the crew members in order to disable a tank.

The Monroe principle that HEAT rounds and RPGs use are designed to send a concentrated explosive jet into the armour at a specified distance from the target that pierces the armour and bouces around the inside doing catastrophic damage to equipment and often crew members.

[Lucidity]

It would be nice to sit in a vehicle even if it is dissabled & not get forced out. So you could use it to hide. It's annoying how the AI knows you're in there. If you walk up on a tank & crew isn't turned out & the tank is just parked with the engine off, then there's not really any way you can tell if there's anyone in the tank, so why should the AI be able to know If I can't.

[UKPUSHER]

OPTIONS/DIFFICULTY/EXTENDED ARMOUR/ENABLED

thats why they gave u this option

T80 takes approximetly 6 laws [weakspot is back and fronnt panel]

[Aaron Kane]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from UKPUSHER on 12:12 am on Nov. 18, 2001
OPTIONS/DIFFICULTY/EXTENDED ARMOUR/ENABLED

thats why they gave u this option

T80 takes approximetly 6 laws [weakspot is back and fronnt panel][/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah, I'm aware of that option, but that toughens the tank also, which I would rather not have.



JubJub, isnt ERA designed to minimize the effect of HEAT warheads, such as those that a RPG has? I believe Chobbam also helps weaken a HEAT blast.

I can see a APFSDS killing the crew, since it rips right through the armor, but wont HEAT weapons just smack into the side of most armor systems, maybe damaging the gunners sight, commanders viewer, and other more delicate equipment?

Oh, and I have a question about ERA. I know that ERA panels blast outward to dissapate the force of a HEAT explosion, but how does this work? Does the ERA block actually get penetrated, thus detonating it, or does it detect a projectile and detonate once an object gets to within a certain distance?

[The Jub-Jub Bird]

As far as I know it explodes when penetrated. I can't see how it would explode when it detects a projectile heading towards it, not without potentially lots of things going wrong.

[Aaron Kane]

Hmm... do you know how hard it is to penetrate them? It would really suck is a .50 with AP rounds set off the ERA.

[sgtdwetzel]

To all....
The most modern designs of ERA is pretty much impervious to small arms fire and artillery shrapnel.
It doesn't detect anything coming towards it....what ERA is is pretty much high explosive sandwiched between steel plate. As the round hits the outside plate, the pressure sets off the detonator and throws that outside plate towards the incoming round. Against a HEAT round, it disrupts the explosive jet, thereby reducing its effectiveness. It is less effective against SABOT because of the rounds velocity, but on oblique hits (hitting at 30+ degrees relative to the armor), it reduces the chance of a solid hit to the armor.

US armor does not use it because of the weight penalty. The Soviet's used it to reinforce their lightly armored tanks....the T-80 weighs almost 20 tons LESS than the M1A1

[Scooby]

Apilas (disposable unguided heavy AT weapon that weights 9 kilos) offers penetration of 650 - 700mm at 90 degree hit angle.

If I remember right TOW2A offers penetration of 1000mm after era at 90 degree hit angle.

TOW2A missile should be enough to kill and tank from any hit sector.

[murphywnjuk]

Does anyone know how much the "extended armour" helps the BRDM...because i just realised how little it takes to make the thing crumple.

Want another example...shoot the Trabant 3 or 4 times with an M-16 :-&#0124;

[Mister Frag]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Aaron Kane on 8:58 am on Nov. 18, 2001
Hmm... do you know how hard it is to penetrate them?  It would really suck is a .50 with AP rounds set off the ERA.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

That's why modern anti-tank missiles like the TOW 2A and Bofors BILL 2 use dual warheads -- the first will set off the reactive armor, and the second will penetrate the tank's regular armor.

[King Kong]

These uranium sabot rounds like APFSDU actually don't destroy the tank, they just penetrate the armor and kill the crew in it
wich is banned right now many Iraqi childeren who played in burnedout tanks died because of this
APFSDU produces a radioactive dust

[LordZach]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from murphywnjuk on 4:10 pm on Nov. 19, 2001
Does anyone know how much the "extended armour" helps the BRDM...because i just realised how little it takes to make the thing crumple.

Want another example...shoot the Trabant 3 or 4 times with an M-16 :-&#0124;
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

i think trabant is made of some kind of plastic and that's why it is weak. remember suma or someone saying something about it.

[Straw Dog UKD]

Trabants are made out of fibreglass as far as I am aware - just like all those other race cars :-)

[The Jub-Jub Bird]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from King Kong on 11:36 pm on Nov. 19, 2001
These uranium sabot rounds like APFSDU actually don't destroy the tank, they just penetrate the armor and kill the crew in it
wich is banned right now many Iraqi childeren who played in burnedout tanks died because of this
APFSDU produces a radioactive dust
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Thats the most effective way of disabling a tank, take out the intellegence. Just the same as how HEAT and HESH rounds work, designed to kill the people inside.

[fixOPFsoundsplease]

I strongly disagree with you Aaron Kane!

My vote is for more meat kill, less armor damage.

I want the tanks to have the crew/meat killed easy, and the armor to stay intact more.

[barret]

lol, besides crew man, dont forget the passengers with the lil ak-47's and m16's !!!!!!!!

[Aaron Kane]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from fixOPFsoundsplease on 5:14 am on Nov. 21, 2001
I strongly disagree with you Aaron Kane!

My vote is for more meat kill, less armor damage.

I want the tanks to have the crew/meat killed easy, and the armor to stay intact more.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


... why?

You are rolling along in your T-80 in multiplayer, minding your own business, when some loser with a LAW fires at you. He's pretty close, but behind some foliage, thus preventing you from locating his position. Two of his LAWS that he fires hit you, and the entire crew is in "injured" status. The third smacks you in the side, and you're gone.


Now that ####### who killed you is gonna take your tank, throwing your body on the ground in the process, where he proceeds to run it over several times! Wheres the love?!?!?

[The Jub-Jub Bird]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from fixOPFsoundsplease on 4:14 am on Nov. 21, 2001
I strongly disagree with you Aaron Kane!

My vote is for more meat kill, less armor damage.

I want the tanks to have the crew/meat killed easy, and the armor to stay intact more.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

That would be good so long as when one guy dies the crew actually do something like use the gun, drive away or bail, instead of just sitting there waiting for their inevitable death.

[Black Op]

when ever im in a tank and the gun gets damaged beyond use a always bail out, my commander is telling me to get back in, but i take cover while the remaining crew get blown up http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[fixOPFsoundsplease]

Hey buddy what can I tell ya!

Guess you gotta be that ####### with the LAW now dont yah!

[fixOPFsoundsplease]

LOL! I do that also Black Op.

Hey Hey Hey! now, Tank Killers united and sing! -""" Thank-you Bohemia-In-ter Active! Thank-you for making-the tank crew weak!""'

[Aaron Kane]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from fixOPFsoundsplease on 4:05 am on Nov. 22, 2001
Hey buddy what can I tell ya!

Guess you gotta be that ####### with the LAW now dont yah!
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

SO BE IT!!! http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[fixOPFsoundsplease]

And Aaron, thanks for writing that story…liked the bit about getting your corpse run over repeatedly by the LAW soldier HeHe …after he stole the tank.

w00t! its like....Mech Warrior...you shoot the pilot(meat) and salvage the Mech.

[Aaron Kane]

Hehehe... I should know, I always steal tanks from the AI, where I proceed to sell them on the black market. http://www.flashpoint1985.com/ikonboard3/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[fixOPFsoundsplease]

"Mech Warrior 2 - Mercenaries" ; "Operation Flashpoint 2 - Mercenaries"

You are a career merc leader and you buy and sell for you team of mercs...you sell drugs and stuff you name it...be so cool.

Have like a South/Central American Island or map for some Rogue Spear (it had tropical stuff) type play...but with you being mercenaries hired by the bad asses.

(Edited by fixOPFsoundsplease at 5:08 am on Nov. 22, 2001)