View Full Version : Aliens and UFOs
Mark1028
Jan 31 2012, 19:40
We can discuss here about the aliens.
I told you not to talk about the dinosauroids. We will find and silence you.
FYI: No one else can see this post. If you reply to it, it will look like you're talking with yourself.
Abs
I got abducted and anal probed once.... never get drunk in Amsterdam.
antoineflemming
Jan 31 2012, 19:57
Uh, the UFOs seen throughout history (what we can actually PROVE were seen) were most likely military experimental aircraft. As for skulls and stuff, I don't believe that, because it's easy to fabricate skulls. Just like all of the "evolution" skeletons were false (skulls from humans and other animals stuck together to look like an in-between species). Not saying that these fabrications disprove these things (evolution and aliens respectively, although I don't believe in either of them), but just because someone can't identify an object doesn't mean that it's alien. People saw a UFO over Russia a few months ago, turned out it was a drone. It was unidentified to the people, but it was an unmanned aircraft.
As for that "Starchild" skull, how do we even know that it's even REAL? Just because they say so? And, according to the video, a human mother procreated with a non-human father? Really?
Look at this: Hydrocephalus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrocephalus)
ArmAriffic
Jan 31 2012, 20:01
SOME sort of "alien" has to be real, there is billions of planets\stars and we can't be the only one with life...but I don't know if they would visit earth just to probe rye :p :D
Hard to tell what they would do.. if we had advanced space travel and came across a planet in which we detected advanced life forms like ourselves now what would we do? would we spy on the planet.. covert ops to gather intelligence or would we just land and say "We come in peace" and hope we don't land in the likes of some alien world Afghanistan lol
i do believe in life on other planets but dont think they're visiting us
a couple of ufo sightings reported in ireland in the paper my dad dismissed with the best line ever, "if they wanted to find out about earth and went to longford, i dont think they'll be back any time soon"
-Martin-
Jan 31 2012, 20:25
I took this video with my mobile phone from my window about 1 or 2 years ago. It shows some kind of shining object appearing/disappearing somewhere over Richmond (West London). It's probably a weather balloon or something, but I thought I'd post it anyway...
Sorry for the freezes in the first few seconds :tongue:
98GoZCCFXSM&feature=youtu.be
Mark1028
Jan 31 2012, 20:28
That skull was tested by scientist.
Did you watch that video? They said, it cant be an abnormal or mutant skull. It was healthy and the starchild was really adult when he died.
antoineflemming
Jan 31 2012, 20:40
They said... People say a lot of things. I'm sorry, but I don't listen to what everyone says. People can say many things. What makes you choose which person is telling the truth and which person is lying? ArmAriffic, why does there have to be SOME alien out there? How do you know that we can't be the only one with life? At this point it's just belief either way, whether you think there are aliens, or whether you don't believe in aliens. There is no PROOF that there are or aren't aliens. Just like I don't believe in evolution. There is NOT evidence to suggest that we came from apes. Because you can't explain why there are no intermediate species between humans and apes. Nor is there explanation of what happened to the intermediate species, and why there are ONLY the "original" apes and us. This "Starchild" is just an attempt by the Ancient Astronaut group to support their point when they really have no support for their theory at all.
Oh, by the way, Starchild:
§6) No posting of explicit images
A real human baby by the way...
Not to make this thread disgusting with pictures, but here are some others:
§6) No posting of explicit images
§6) No posting of explicit images
§6) No posting of explicit images
NOT aliens, although these HUMAN babies have severe genetic problems.
you do realize you are now feeding either a troll, or a pretty disturbed person, don't you? Just check his post history
Nicholas
Jan 31 2012, 20:53
I personally believe that there is other life forms out there. Our universe it huge. There may be life forms in ways that we may not even imagine. We are still finding new animals on earth that have never been documented.
There is so much to learn yet.
Mark1028
Jan 31 2012, 21:03
If scientist or soldiers say that there are aliens, i believe 'em. I think the most important thing is the DNA test in the story of Star"child" 's skull.
What about these skull? The archeoligist found these skulls in a mass grave. We cant say that they are mutants. They were adults, when they died.
http://kepfeltoltes.hu/view/111202/Paracus-Skull_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg
http://kepfeltoltes.hu/view/111202/Klaus_Dona_2_html_m797eda8d_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg
http://kepfeltoltes.hu/view/111202/nazca_96_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg
What about the dropa stones?
If scientist or soldiers say that there are aliens, i believe 'em. I think the most important thing is the DNA test in the story of Star"child" 's skull.
What about these skull? The archeoligist found these skulls in a mass grave. We cant say that they are mutants. They were adults, when they died.
http://kepfeltoltes.hu/view/111202/Paracus-Skull_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg
http://kepfeltoltes.hu/view/111202/Klaus_Dona_2_html_m797eda8d_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg
http://kepfeltoltes.hu/view/111202/nazca_96_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg
What about the dropa stones?
can be explained by this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_cranial_deformation
Soul_Assassin
Jan 31 2012, 21:24
Absolutely the biggest expert on aliens :D
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kvaH6vK3cSA/Tw2CsUi5QqI/AAAAAAAADrE/xyVgUW8-Kzk/s640/Giorgio_Tsoukalos.jpg
:slayer:
for those that dont know that is Giorgio A. Tsoukalos from a History channel show called Ancient Aliens which is a very interesting watch (a bit cooky sometimes) both historically and intellectually (raises a lot of very interesting points). Be warned: only for open-minded people :)
you do realize you are now feeding either a troll, or a pretty disturbed person, don't you? Just check his post history
Id say he's trolling it lol but this thread is doomed as so many people will have different beliefs. I for one believe in science over religion.. i believe there will be planets with other life forms how ever small i just don't think there is the kind of technology for fast space travel.. id be surprised in the next 100 years if we would have such tech.. if there was outside life it would have shown itself .. or we would have detected it..
Absolutely the biggest expert on aliens :D
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kvaH6vK3cSA/Tw2CsUi5QqI/AAAAAAAADrE/xyVgUW8-Kzk/s640/Giorgio_Tsoukalos.jpg
:slayer:
for those that dont know that is Giorgio A. Tsoukalos from a History channel show called Ancient Aliens which is a very interesting watch (a bit cooky sometimes) both historically and intellectually (raises a lot of very interesting points). Be warned: only for open-minded people :)
lol, got a good chuckle at that one
interesting show, but dont believe it
UFO hunters was a bit of a fail to me, worst one had to be the story about the craft that crashed in texas and was buried down a well. Bill (i think...guy with the glasses) kept going on about how an alien craft crashed and at the end when it was disproved was like. oh we knew all along it was an airship/blimp
Nicholas
Jan 31 2012, 21:33
Absolutely the biggest expert on aliens :D
[IMGhttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kvaH6vK3cSA/Tw2CsUi5QqI/AAAAAAAADrE/xyVgUW8-Kzk/s640/Giorgio_Tsoukalos.jpg[/IMG]
:slayer:
for those that dont know that is Giorgio A. Tsoukalos from a History channel show called Ancient Aliens which is a very interesting watch (a bit cooky sometimes) both historically and intellectually (raises a lot of very interesting points). Be warned: only for open-minded people :)
Yeah, I've watched that show a few times. That guys hair is always sticking up in all different directions. Maybe he smokes a joint before every episode or something. :D
maionaze
Jan 31 2012, 21:41
For the sake of increasing my post count:
Aliens do exist. They may not be space travelers,but they do exist. Billions of stars= life outside our solar system. The whole center of the univers concept is old and somewhat selfish.
Soul_Assassin
Jan 31 2012, 23:10
Id say he's trolling it lol but this thread is doomed as so many people will have different beliefs. I for one believe in science over religion.. i believe there will be planets with other life forms how ever small i just don't think there is the kind of technology for fast space travel.. id be surprised in the next 100 years if we would have such tech.. if there was outside life it would have shown itself .. or we would have detected it..
Well it can go both ways really, either really primitive or miles ahead of us. We have achieved extraordinary things in the last 100 years, imagine what we could do in a 1000. Just imagine how our world would be like today if religion didnt exist. Perhaps we could have been to the moon a 1000 years ago. In light of all the things that we have achieved in the last 100 years, its foolish to just assume that this couldn't have happened elsewhere already a million years ago.
Well it can go both ways really, either really primitive or miles ahead of us. We have achieved extraordinary things in the last 100 years, imagine what we could do in a 1000. Just imagine how our world would be like today if religion didnt exist. Perhaps we could have been to the moon a 1000 years ago. In light of all the things that we have achieved in the last 100 years, its foolish to just assume that this couldn't have happened elsewhere already a million years ago.
Your comments remind me of this:
http://commonsenseatheism.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/darkages.gif
Abs
I agree with assassin.
The universe is a incredibly large place. Some galaxies are so far away that the light from the stars haven't reached us yet.
We also don't know how advanced other life would be. An alien can be anything from a single celled microorganism, to a animal, to a race of super advanced sentient beings.
They could even be at a similar technological level to us, only really able to observe from space probes at the edge of their solar system, we really don't know.
For all we know, we could currently be the most advanced race in the galaxy/universe, or we could be the least advanced. We just don't know.
For the sake of increasing my post count:
Aliens do exist. They may not be space travelers,but they do exist. Billions of stars= life outside our solar system. The whole center of the univers concept is old and somewhat selfish.
In that vein, on both accounts: lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0PWOJkWgcM
Soul_Assassin
Jan 31 2012, 23:26
in a way yes, but don't forget that egyptian, greek and roman civilizations had also strong religions and thus had a cap on advancements of knowledge (but nooooowhereeee even near christianity). Some things they accepted that they didnt know, thus explored, while other things had perfectly sound religious explanations, thus were simply ignored. A modern scientist is only held back by ethics (and thats a good thing), perhaps one day this will not even be the case and advancement will be sole goal of humanity.
@<hidden> b00ce
and his calculation is only for Milky Way :) and "There are probably more than 170 billion (1.7 × 1011) galaxies in the observable universe." (c) Wikipedia
Evolution this, evolution that..
Whats with the totally unrelated attacks on evolution? Reading up on your issues with it would be time better spend than talking about it in this topic.
Max Power
Feb 1 2012, 02:10
antoinneflemming
This is not the forum to post disgusting imagery. +1 infraction for explicit images.
§6) No posting of explicit images
No posting of pictures containing porn, real killing, mutilations, wounds, carnage, and other disgusting/explicit images. This also includes links to pages that contain such images. If you are in doubt, contact a moderator via private message before posting. You won't be banned for checking out if a link is ok to post if it's a genuine request.
Soul_Assassin
Feb 1 2012, 02:26
Just like I don't believe in evolution. There is NOT evidence to suggest that we came from apes. Because you can't explain why there are no intermediate species between humans and apes. Nor is there explanation of what happened to the intermediate species, and why there are ONLY the "original" apes and us.
Well thats why it is a theory, because there is no 100% proof. However you are wrong to say that there is NO evidence. Plenty of intermediate species have been found, and I am sure some more will be found eventually. We are just talking about such ancient times, its hard to believe any are being found at all. And its not only evolution of humans, but of all living things. In Russia they even demonstrated that a wild fox evolves (physically, changing color, curled tails, some bones bigger, some smaller, as well as behaviorally, genetic supression of agression, evolution of communication) after just 9 generations in domestic conditions. Noone said that the apes living now are the same as the "original" apes, simply that we have a common ancestor. The modern ape is just a separate branch of evolution.
This "Starchild" is just an attempt by the Ancient Astronaut group to support their point when they really have no support for their theory at all. Oh, by the way, Starchild:
NOT aliens, although these HUMAN babies have severe genetic problems.
well your Hydrocephalus theory also absolutely holds no truth as it does in no way explain the chemical composition of the scull, its thickness, presence of unidentified materials and most importantly the unidentified sequence of 342 base pairs in its DNA. Or maybe you don't believe in DNA as well? The basic Ancient Alien theory is sound, I mean all they are trying to do is really call to attention very peculiar similarities in world mythologies, architecture and civilizations and in most cases they do present compelling case. Yes of course you can counter-argue with some non-alien theory as well, but by same argument of lack of evidence, this new theory would be just as invalid as the alien one.
Just like I don't believe in evolution. There is NOT evidence to suggest that we came from apes. Because you can't explain why there are no intermediate species between humans and apes. Nor is there explanation of what happened to the intermediate species, and why there are ONLY the "original" apes and us.
Sorry bud, but your understanding of evolution is flawed. The hypothesis isn't that we came from apes, the hypothesis is that apes and humans came from a common ancestor. We know that we had a common ancestor because of genetic similarities. When I say genetic similarity i'm not only talking about physical characteristics, i'm talking about how the majority of our genes are similar, similarities that can only be there if we shared them at one point in time. Much like how you have genetic similarities to your birth parents that could only come from them.
The theory of evolution is that all life on earth had a common ancestor. Evolution is also referred to as "Decent with Modification." That explains why our genes are similar, but not the same.
The easiest example would be dog breeding.
Back in the 1800's German Sheppards then were very different from the ones today. Breeders wanted to improve them to make them a better working dog so they crossed those German Sheppards with other dogs that were more intelligent, physically stronger, more agile, etc. After generations of dog breeding they got a dog that had favorable mix of traits from previous dogs, and thus today's German Sheppard was born. Today's German Sheppards have all those characteristics, being extremely intelligent, agile, and strong, and are often called the perfect working dog, which is why the military and law enforcement love them. The breeding process can be called evolution, but some will argue that evolution can only occur in nature. Semantics, as both processes are very similar.
Our evolution may not be as direct as the German Sheppards, since we know that Homo Sapiens (anatomically modern humans) and Neanderthals (Extinct Subspecies of Homo Sapiens) came from a common ancestor (Australopithecus Garhi) that looked nothing like an ape and neither did their ancestor. In fact, there are probably a dozen different species, and hundreds of thousands of years between the species that humans and apes shared. But it's there.
If you wish, I can go into more detail about the different kinds of evolution like natural selection, mutation, etc.
Max Power
Feb 1 2012, 06:05
Don't feed the trolls.
Don't feed the trolls.
feed the aliens.. ;)
NoRailgunner
Feb 1 2012, 10:20
...steal the UFO's! :cylon:
Mark1028
Feb 1 2012, 13:14
To evrybody: I am not a troll. I am serious and say seriously, that the aliens visited us.
And i believe that, the dinosaurs continued their evolution and reached the intelligent phase.
---------- Post added at 03:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:08 PM ----------
I saw deformed skulls, but those elongated skull are clearly looks like aliens.
http://reinep.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/anunnaki-skulls-naturally-elongated.jpg
The left skull is a deformed, elongated human skull but the right skull is clearly the remain of one alien.
It's okay, we totally believe you.
I occasionally go out cow-probing with my alien buddies. Those bubble-headed bastards really dig that shit.
It's okay, we totally believe you.
I occasionally go out cow-probing with my alien buddies. Those bubble-headed bastards really dig that shit.
LMAO :D
Well I guess there is life on some other planet, and maybe we will be the first to visit their planet and destroy everything (mankind has a tradition of doing stuff like that. Just ask the american natives).
Nicholas
Feb 1 2012, 14:53
Who says aliens even have skulls? As I said before, "aliens" or other life forms may come in ways that we cannot even imagine.
It's just stereotypical I guess. Everyone believes that aliens would have big heads and eyes. But says who? There is no genuine proof except some photo's, which anybody could have easily faked.
-Martin-
Feb 1 2012, 15:23
And i believe that, the dinosaurs continued their evolution and reached the intelligent phase.
I saw some dinosaur skeletons in a museum and they were HUGE. If they did evolve in to the intelligent phase, where are they hiding? ;)
Mark1028
Feb 1 2012, 16:34
I think they left the Earth. Some scients speculated about the intelligent dinosaurs / reptoids.
What about the abductions? What do you think about the story of Barney an Betty hill?
Hi all
BALLS! (http://m.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jan/30/blue-marble-mystery-rains-dorset?cat=uk&type=article)
:eek:
In fact to be precise blue balls.
Kind regards walker
froggyluv
Feb 1 2012, 17:06
Hehe, aliens...kind of a funny story.
I have an Aunt who claims to have seen one plain as day in rural Pennsylvania back in the 50's being chased by US jets until it made an abrupt vertical ascent at 90 degrees. She became pretty much consumed by what she claims to have seen and convinced me to do a report on then for my 7th grade required 10 page report -it turned into 72 pages!! Funnier still is that with my little tape recorder and microphone I interviewed and recorded 'close encounter witnesses' at the local AA meeting house; thats Alcoholics Anoynomous... When my expert failed to show for our last interview, all agreed either the Men in Black had finally nabbed him OR full scale abduction had occurred...:yay:
Note to future seventh graders following in my path -don't try to impress your friends/girls with your expert knowledge of alien spacecraft magentic propulsion systems.
Edit: sorry for the odd paragraphing -cant seem to fix.
-Martin-
Feb 1 2012, 17:23
What about the abductions?
Hmm it’s difficult to trust anyone in this world about legitimate matters yet alone abductions by aliens. To tell you the truth I can't say that a person didn't see them/get abducted but I can’t accept it too because it never happened to me and there is not enough proof to prove that this ever happened to anyone else, it’s a lot like religion. I think most of the people say stories like that for attention/ to get paid, some of them might be a bit disturbed in the head... Most of this was probably a cold war political game too. I really don't know.
Hi all
BALLS! (http://m.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jan/30/blue-marble-mystery-rains-dorset?cat=uk&type=article)
:eek:
In fact to be precise blue balls.
Kind regards walker
Hmm that's very interesting and I would sure like to experience that or see the blue balls myself. But I think that the explanation isn't UFO's, but rather some kind of chemical that transformed in to this jelly substance in the right conditions, flew with the clouds and rained down... The article talks about this theory too at the end.
"I thought it could have been some kind of atmospheric pollution like a chemical that has been released into the atmosphere, got sucked into a storm cloud and solidified and then released in droplets with the hail stones. Ideally I'd like to get them chemically analysed to find out what they consist of."
My friend told me a couple of days ago that apparently it rained baby fish somewhere in Australia and that this phenomenon is caused by eggs or little fish getting sucked up in a tornado and then falling down to the ground, or something like that… So maybe a similar thing happened with these blue balls. The only way to know is to check out what they're made out of.
Absolutely the biggest expert on aliens :D
:slayer:
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/209/023/1322519438372.jpg
for those that dont know that is Giorgio A. Tsoukalos from a History channel show called Ancient Aliens which is a very interesting watch (a bit cooky sometimes) both historically and intellectually (raises a lot of very interesting points). Be warned: only for open-minded people :)
It's a show that's meant to be funny, amusing and entertaining - nothing more. The History Channel stopped being a channel about History years ago, now, it's just another entertainment channel.
STALKERGB
Feb 2 2012, 01:04
It's a show that's meant to be funny, amusing and entertaining - nothing more. The History Channel stopped being a channel about History years ago, now, it's just another entertainment channel.
Saying that, I love UFO Hunters, not because the show revealed anything, but it was an enjoyable watch! :)
As SA says, Ancient Aliens is quite interesting if you sift through the BS that is in there.
http://smalltownrevelations.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/tumblr_lqn3bme2bm1r054j5o1_500.jpg
Gotta love Gorgio though! Oh that HAIR!
hmmm...
i remind myself one sentence from one noblist (physics or math)
guy said:
what is possibility that there is life in the space ?
what is possibility that there is similar solar system ? maybe 1 per bilion
what is possibility that there is similar planet in such solar system ? maybe 1 per bilion
what is possibility that on such planet there is life , maybe 1 per bilion
but now let's count/multiply it by number of stars
so ? what will be mathematical probability if you will count for example 1^10e-30 by 1^10e+31 ? ;)
hehe
it is mathematical point of view
another funny sentence:
if aliens are really more intelligent than people than now we know why they do not want to meet us :D
but if aliens not exist, than we have to be ... created by god ?
so god must exist ? also heaven and hell? in this at least i doubt looking at evil unpunished on earth and dying children on cancer while some gangsters live in wealth,
cause it is highly impossible that we appeared just like that if there was no other life in space
i would not want to meet any alien (unless it is shaped like beauty woman and is sex-obsessed) but ...
as engineer i believe in math and physics and ... probability, otherwise i would have to believe in god , which should had to be sadist looking at suffering on earth
if god existed, our life would look like porno movie without any work and duties (just have fun, take all easy, no hurry, no competition, Paris Hilton-like kids may believe in gods ;) )
-----------------
Max Power
Feb 2 2012, 08:17
but if aliens not exist, than we have to be ... created by god ?
Sounds like black and white thinking. I think there are a lot of possibilities and those two possibilities themselves are no mutually exclusive. I often wonder if those percent chances of life on other worlds is really representative of any actual situation.
what is possibility that there is similar solar system ? maybe 1 per bilion
what is possibility that there is similar planet in such solar system ? maybe 1 per bilion
Considering the latest discoveries of extrasolar planets, these "guesses" seem way off. Even with our limited technology we have discovered quite a few rocky planets, several of which are estimated to be in or around their parent star's habitable zone.
So it seems that Earth may not be so unique after all.
what is possibility that on such planet there is life , maybe 1 per bilion
This is debatable. On the one hand, the conditions for life as we know it to come into being seem very specific and unlikely, but on the other hand life always seems to find ways to adapt. Just look at some of the extremophiles on Earth, like bacteria living in tiny water bubbles in frozen ice, or animals that have adapted to live without needing light or even oxygen.
just seen this:
Well it can go both ways really, either really primitive or miles ahead of us. We have achieved extraordinary things in the last 100 years, imagine what we could do in a 1000. Just imagine how our world would be like today if religion didnt exist. Perhaps we could have been to the moon a 1000 years ago.
i can imagine how would like , one word: horrible
why ?
people need religions, to have morality
without religions how our world would look like ?
mix of sparta and XIX century capitalism and Hitler and work-camp like USSR had
religions make rules like "don't kill, don't steal, don't lie"
but stealing and killing and lying is first activity of those who have profits and "rule the world" and first rule of "progress"
i am against progress if there is too much suffering (or slave-like work)
i'd rather live in ultra-religious in society in which "criminal is punished" (not free because he had good lawyer and judge took bribe ) than in world of "robots which are obey to work and can be killed any moment if not efficient enough"
thanx to religions our life is "worthy" cause religion believes in dignity of life
not in "economical efficiency"
i am human, not robot
i work cause i have to pay for food, electricity, goods
i don't live to work,
efficiency and religions are in conflict, so i choose religion instead of soulless economy ;]
economy would shoot people who are "to expensive" like some disabled people who "do not make profits"
morality was born in human history thax to religions , animals do not have it
Bullshit. I'm an atheist to the core and would not consider myself amoral at all, thank you very much.
It is entirely possible for society to develop morals and codes of conduct without religion.
Not to forget that some of the darkest periods in history were caused by religious fanaticism and superstition.
ArmAriffic
Feb 2 2012, 08:33
Bullshit. I'm an atheist to the core and would not consider myself amoral at all, thank you very much.
+1 I'm atheist and there is nothing wrong with me
not bullshit
if "profit" becomes to be "god" than people (majority) do anything to get profit bigger
have you looked at number of immoral acts in society (so called usual people) when religion level falls down ?
cause i can observe it in my country very well
economic efficiency and profit makes people:
- lie much more,
- steal, cheat much more,
because society do not feel "that they do something wrong, what's wrong if i have more money on bank account"
but do they think "how i get more money than neighbor?"
It is entirely possible for society to develop morals and codes of conduct without religion.
how society who wants progress in economy will develop following rules:
- do not lie (how it is in area of marketing, sales, commercial breaks, advocates) ?
- do not kill (wars for oil ? sending troops cause in other country won candidate who want to quit "our" companies)
- help weak (deadly ill people, disabled people, cancer treatment, expensive surgery operations)
???
it is not economically profitable, so how you want such rules to be set by society who believe in "gold" ?
for many liberals "what is not giving profit is bad, let's kill all disabled, let's kill all weak, let's kill all not able to work" - sounds like Sparta or Hitler , USSR also had "work camps" and many things built by forced to work slaves
do you believe that humans without religion would built world without killing weak ? or similar to animals where weak is killed , in our Christian morality weak must be helped (and it born socialist ideas)
remember that society is not only you, but also some group of not too wise people, who live "mainstream" "following leaders" etc.
for them religion is necessary, cause they will do anything bad for profit (if they not afraid of hell, without promise of heaven they will not be good, cause "what for, it not gives economical profit" )
to rule people you need religions, otherwise they won't obey and they will take away your goods when you will be weak or ill
Hi all
Anyone who bases their argument on an imaginary friend can not be reasoned with and by the same reason cannot understand science.
Kind regards walker
Anyone who bases their argument on an imaginary friend can not be reasoned with and by the same reason cannot understand science.
Well put. I think I'll just leave it at that. ;)
This discussion is veering off topic anyway.
i can imagine how would like , one word: horrible
why ?
people need religions, to have morality
I dont need the fear of an imaginary punishment (hell) to stop me from murdering my neighbour, I know the difference between right and wrong without having to be persuaded to choose the "right" path with promises of eternal joy or damnation.
For once I agree with Walker...
where can you know border which you won't cross ?
what tells you "not to do" ?
you see "neighbor has nice wife, neighbor has nice car, why not to rape his wife, shot guy, take his car and drive highway" , what makes people stop to do it ? it is irrational from economical point of view , cause you would have to work for such car and probably had less beauty woman,
what makes you pay tax for cancer treatment if for example noone in you family since ages had cancer and you eat good food, have sport and know that cancer will not touch you, what makes you force your government to spend 10 000 USD to save one weak ill person with cancer ?
what stops someone from cheating wife ? if it is top secret situation and noone will know , what except fear ?
in some liberal and anti-church voices i head in Poland "what for to pay tax for dying man, it is economical nonsense"
so you say, that if humankind had no "religion" in history , today we would have hospitals which treat cancer for free (from taxes)?
i think that this what stops is religion in our culture (no matter of deeds of priests)
religion is something which probably ancient invented to make people better and make them less animals :]
you must invent things and ideas that make rest obey , otherwise they will eat you alive
"aliens" are very connected to it, cause if "science" will find aliens than whole Bible loose sense and ... i can only imagine hordes of morons robbing and raping "there is no hell, so i can do whatever i want"
people, specially those more primitive, need it very very much, all morality is based upon punishment , without punishment anything loose sense
i believe that even if governments had scientific proofs about any aliens they would keep it for one reason - it would kill religions and kill half of humanity fears (which born morality)
as atheist (but believing not in god, but in Christian values) and "technical mind" i always believe that "there must be reason" why people do this or people do that
and there is also probability math :] in such huge space it is hard to believe to be alone on this earth , but even if i knew anything about any alien, i would also keep secret, cause to some knowledge people are not enough grown and enough developed
we are stopping some countries to have nuclear bombs, we are stopping civilians to have good GPS, in past countries were stopping other countries from their technology to avoid use of this technology against them, moreover, i believe that special intel agents know 1000 times more than we can imagine, but they keep secrets because people are not grown enough
3,4, 8, 12, 150 or 1790 people on this forum may say "i am atheist and i don't steal" but if in our culture there was no "afraid of hell" i have no idea how 100000 other people would react seeing you with newest Canon DSLR in hand "there is no hell, i can take his camera, kill him, f** his slim girl and have fun for his money, why not"
in past i had some experience with criminals (lots of policeman neighbors, myself almost cadet, later some cases in court, now also working in legal-technical area) and i know one thing - many of them only afraid of punishment of any kind, they do not have morality, they have fear
religion is necessary for human - to bring them fear and morality (do not steal, do not kill, do not lie) by force , look at old people from countries with very high religion level, many of them are naive and not lie , look at developed "modern" good earning guys from marketing or pr or lawyers believing only in one life and money , do you see difference ?
one man will not cheat you, other only wait how to cheat you (and earn more money), difference is cause first man believes that something is evil, other man only calculate profit vs. loose
but still remains how the hell we appeared on this earth and think and behave different than hungry predator
@<hidden> above post
can not be reasoned with
So true...
Religion != morality
I mean just look at how many millions (if not billions) of people have been killed in the name of religion over the last 2000 years...
what makes people stop to do it ?
I dunno, maybe because these things are crimes punishable by time in prison. People dont rob, rape and pillage because they will go to prison, not because of some fear of hell...
Well... Long story short; knowing the difference between good and evil (and defining it) is a concept developed by philosophy, not solely religion and is called 'morality'.
On this one:
if "science" will find aliens than whole Bible loose sense and ... i can only imagine hordes of morons robbing and raping "there is no hell, so i can do whatever i want"
I just want to ask this:
What about people for whom the Bible even now has no sense; atheists, gnostics, Jews (who deny to acknowledge the New Testament) and thousands of other people who tend to lean towards reason instead belief in the Judeo-Christian model? Do we see them running around "in hordes robbing and raping"? Plus, is everyone of the aformentioned a moron???
PS: What's with the quotation marks on science?
DMarkwick
Feb 2 2012, 11:46
I mean just look at how many millions (if not billions) of people have been killed in the name of religeon over the last 2000 years...
Religions don't kill people, people kill people.
I dunno, maybe because these things are crimes punishable by time in prison. People dont rob, rape and pillage because they will go to prison, not because of some fear of hell...
People don't rob, rape or pillage because most people are good people. Nothing to do with punishment (of any nature). Some tiny proportion will always though, regardless of deterrents. Religions neither cause, nor deter, wars. There is no religion that says you must kill anyone else for any reason other than punishment for actions. Always follow the money, or follow the power, for reasons for war :)
Mr. Charles
Feb 2 2012, 11:46
This thread is about Aliens, not morality and religion.
Meeting aliens should become possible after something like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warp_drive_%28Star_Trek%29 is invented ;)
Vilas, in all seriousness, you are the only person on this forum whose posts make me physically shudder. I'm not joking.
As DM says, religion is not morality. Morality can exist without religion, and vice versa. More than enough people have been raped and killed simply because they didn't believe in the right god, the people who did the raping and killing justified it and reconciled it just fine with their religion.
Meeting aliens should become possible after something like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warp_drive_%28Star_Trek%29 is invented ;)
If only it were that simple. ;)
Religions don't kill people, people kill people.
I said "in the name of" not "by", there is a difference ;)
This thread is about Aliens, not morality and religion.
Vilas has a tallent to drag threads wildly offtopic, and then complain when people start new threads related to his topics in an effort to bring the original thread back to topic/order. You get used to it after a while :/
There is no religion that says you must kill anyone else for any reason other than punishment for actions
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
You should not let a sorceress live.
If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.
Etc. Etc. It's only a matter of defining the reason and action...For many people taking the above too seriously the only reason and action is: being different
but do you say only about TODAY ? cause i was referring to post about history of humankind "what could we do if not religion"
look at punishment 100 years ago and today, look at technic level (forensic) 100 years ago , now they are much lower,
what stopped people who were not visible by urban everywhere-present police cameras ? what stopped people who were not afraid to leave one hair (DNA)
another thing - religion killed milions - but how many other milions were not killed because someone believed it is bad ? compare to milions killed by Hitler or Stalin or people killed in the name of economy
how many killed by religion in fact were killed by "king who wanted possess other land" , just like in XX century "president corrupted by bank owners wants take oil" , in X century religion was camouflage for war reason, now "freedom" ;]
what is street safety level in very religious Arab countries with poor forensic technicians and without everywhere-present cameras ? probably much better than in our modern world with those cameras but without majority afraid of any hell
Serclaes
Feb 2 2012, 12:16
Being an atheist I have to point out that science and religion (or rather faith) are not mutually exclusive. Just when institutions get in the way of science because it would prove the instution wrong it becomes problematic. See Galilei. Religious people can be outstanding scientists or religion can emphasize science.
What I don't understand is why exactly would the discovery of aliens render the bible obsolete?
What I don't understand is why exactly would the discovery of aliens render the bible obsolete?
I guess because the bible only speaks of god creating the Earth, and all life upon it. If life is discovered elsewhere, it raises the question of where that life came from. Of course, creationists would probably say that god created all life in the universe 6000 years ago.
Personally, I would love to see a debate about evolution between an alien and a young earth creationist, especially if the alien civilization was older than 6000 years. :D
also Bible says about creating human on god's look
so if alien has different morality (let's say for silly Monthy Python's example , for alien it is immoral to wear blue hat in friday and yellow hat in saturday, but he kills without problem cause he multiplies somehow and do not value individual life cause it believes only in group work life ) than what ?
creationism is not wise of course, but i remind that i answered to SoulAssasin's post about if not religion we would live better world, i doubt it, i believe that if not religion, there would be no care about weak or poor, there would be Sparta instead of medical care and pensions
i believe that religion is story created by human , but necessary story to hold primitive and greed humans to respect each other more than in times like 20 000 b.c. or animals fighting each other
i remember stories told by my gramma about live in small town 70 years ago, when one robbery was "big deal" for local people, there was no marketing or commercials, cause people were panically afraid of hell etc.
SoulAssasin also said about how good technic development we could have , but atomic bombs, chips to control people, i have no idea, thermal scopes to see people behind bush
is it good for us? or only for rulers, what if we lived in world with technic far far better ? policeman controlling my thoughts against gov. cause primeminister has some for example dirty busines and police hunts you by you thoughts against politician ?
Serclaes
Feb 2 2012, 13:04
I guess because the bible only speaks of god creating the Earth, and all life upon it. If life is discovered elsewhere, it raises the question of where that life came from. Of course, creationists would probably say that god created all life in the universe 6000 years ago.
Personally, I would love to see a debate about evolution between an alien and a young earth creationist, especially if the alien civilization was older than 6000 years. :D
Imagine an alien creationist :D
My guess is he'd point out that god is almighty and can have many likings. And really what is space and time to an almighty god?
-Martin-
Feb 2 2012, 13:20
I just want to ask this:
What about people for whom the Bible even now has no sense; atheists, gnostics, Jews (who deny to acknowledge the New Testament) and thousands of other people who tend to lean towards reason instead belief in the Judeo-Christian model? Do we see them running around "in hordes robbing and raping"? Plus, is everyone of the aformentioned a moron???
PS: What's with the quotation marks on science?
Hi all, just a quick post before I have to go...
I'm not going to stand of religions side or sciences side, but I have to objectively say this:
Although religion has caused wars, killed millions of people and continues to do so, so have scientists, so have governments and atheists... Basically, guns of books don't kill people, people kill people.
Religion doesn't belong in the same boat as science, religion belongs to culture, but we have to acknowledge that most of the moral values that we have in our society today (in Europe and the US) come from cultures that we had in the past, of which religion is a part of. We have values from the Roman Empire, from the Greeks, from the Slavs, from Christianity…. so without these cultures in history today’s world would look different.
But there are still people in the world today who aren't educated enough to leave religion, and believing in it actually keeps them reasonable, or people who are in situations in which it benefits them to believe in God (for now).
Take scenario 1 for example: A kid is in an orphanage where it gets bullied/mistreated, thinks of committing suicide but because of his belief for God doesn't do it, instead prays because his brain things that there is some imaginary friend that is listening to him. So he makes it till he’s 18, get released, finds work, a wife and his adult brain puts what has happened to him in to the past allowing him to lead a normal life.
If it wasn't for his belief, he would just say what the heck and hang himself.
I think if you're mature enough and ready to stop believing in religion than you should take the next step, but for now we should leave it up to time to catch up with the others, eventually religion will disappear like everything else in history, but for now a lot of people in society aren't ready for this, but eventually everyone will move forward with time :wink_o:
Me personally, I’ve been on the logical side of things (science) since I was little. I had moments in which I tried to believe but somehow I didn’t make it the ways its written in the old book, now as an adult I understand things differently and so I don’t really need religion even when I get upset.
Kind regards :smile:
i believe that science and religion should not be seen as opposite
cause science (psychology, sociology) of ancient people make them to create religion for the rest of people
cause if you will look at IQ statistics you will see that majority of people have 90-109, minority have over 110 but 30% have lower than 90, so ... it means that 1/3 is stupid today in XXI c., so... how it looked in 3000 b.c. ?
so how you wanna build society with stupid people ? you must give them strict clear rules - thats why religion was developed in past , cause otherwise when you would become weaker, someone stronger would take you goods
so ancient developed idea of religion and god (at least i believe that it was developed as socio-technique) cause without this trick it would be hard to keep people to obey rules (without forensic hi-tech, and without penal codex which comes from... eee... eeee... religions? all basic criminal codes come from ancient era)
it's not a matter if i or you or other well educated man on this forum need religion, it is needed by others who are not as developed , would you give to clans fighting in Africa atomic bombs ? would you give to pirats from Somalia laser canons ? no, why ? cause you must control groups of people somehow (cause they are not responsible enough or are greed too much)
the same reason was when ancient created religions, without religions we would not been further in "freedom, human rights, social employee rights" (the same i don't understand why liberalism in USA in Republican party comes with religion, for me religion comes only with socialism)
scenario which Martin shown is good, but i have another example:
lonely island, only there lives 2 kids and one girl, they for example are left, a lot of fruits among them, parents died in plane crash, not educated by "religion", 2 boys, one girl , girl chosen one boy, but one day they are growing to the age, that sex is so important that second boy kills first boy, to posses his woman, it is natural following instincts like animals do
or there is another scenario: there is healthy town, but only one guy has cancer, people would have to collect 100 USD from each one to collect 20 000 for cancer treatment, who will do it without religion saying that human life is priceless ? 10-20 left-wing hippies in town ? what about rest of 190-180 people in town, without religion they would say "why the heck i should tax myself for this guy, it's his problem" ? religions forbid such point of view, that's why i as atheist also believe that they are necessary for society, you will not say "something is bad or good" without "belief base" (specially when something is against economy, against profit)
i remember there was book and movie "lord of flies" or similar title about issue of growing people without culture (religion beliefs are part of culture)
Aliens discover published by press for example would crash most of human beliefs, thats why it should be kept in military archives (if exists) with "top secret, never open, burn before read" unless aliens are not beauty girls with nymphomaniac obsession who except sex do cooking, cleaning and then man can lie down with keyboard and play some games (enjoy life waiting for dinner) :D
Soul_Assassin
Feb 2 2012, 14:22
I dont think that religion is responsible for holding back people from raping and killing. If they want to rape and kill they will do it, religion or not. Even more scaringly, most of the time they will find a way to integrate both (i.e. "god told me to do it", "we had to rape the women because they were infidels and we needed to cleanse them"), fanaticism and mental instability go hand in hand.
lonely island, only there lives 2 kids and one girl, they for example are left, a lot of fruits among them, parents died in plane crash, not educated by "religion", 2 boys, one girl , girl chosen one boy, but one day they are growing to the age, that sex is so important that second boy kills first boy, to posses his woman, it is natural following instincts like animals do
but you see this is fallacious argumentation. You assume that this is the only logical outcome in this situation. What if he doesn't kill the other boy? Then your theory doesnt work. You are drawing your conclusion from a instinctively random assumption.
back on topic:
in season 3 of AA in the episode on evil places they discuss a place in Russia called Valley of Death, which, according to local legend and several scientific expeditions, contains the things called "cauldrons" in the middle of a swamp. Large metallic hemispheres which would make everyone sick in a very short period of time. According to legend they are some kind of anti air defense system and a video from an expedition in the 90s shows very peculiar round swamp regions with flooded centers that seemed to have metallic bottoms. The place is in relative close proximity to Tunguska.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_ciencia/tunguska56.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-R2ephTdd76I/ToaRONO7m3I/AAAAAAAAQ0U/8fhNBeF6S2M/s400/dfgdfg.jpg
But before any meaningful research could be done everyone on the expedition got very sick and had to evacuate.
Read here:
http://www.realufos.net/2011/10/close-look-at-valley-of-death-yakutian.html
http://www.astrologycom.com/yakutia1.html#topic
I think this place is very peculiar, and might be the absolute key to prove the alien theory. The only place that I know of that could ACTUALLY contain alien tech underground.
Fenrisulven
Feb 2 2012, 14:35
Witnessed 3 at one time flying in formation, turning and disappearing. Not even a sound. I still don't believe they where extraterrestrials. Could be some kind of natural phenomena, still to be explained, or a secret weapon system.
Then again you have NASA employees and renowned astronauts such as Edgar Mitchell openly admitting that we have been in contact with several races but it's been covered up by the government for some 50+ years. Then you also have the drake equation. Nobody really believe that we are alone in the universe, but few believe that we have been visited by another intelligent race.
However there are plenty of historical and archeological clues that points to that possibility. Sumerian mythology is one example and the translations of the Sumerian cuneiform tablets dating some 5-6000 years old and that describes, according to Zacharia Zitchin, how aliens (Annunaki) where mining mineral on earth but eventually the workers refused because of the hard labor. To solve this problem they apparently combined their own DNA with some of the native primates of this planet and voila, the workers a.k.a. the human race was born. Later this operation caused some controversy and some of these Aliens or "Gods" didn't like how the humans where treated and set them free, or something like that. I think it was Enki who favored the humans. Maybe this could explain the missing link? :rolleyes:
Regardless what you think about those translations they apparently describe our planet and the solar system in detail, even with illustrations:
http://openyoureyesto2012andbeyond.com/images/site_graphics/Nibiru-2012-Reptilian-Gods-Illuminati-History-Sumerian-Texts.jpg
.. that's some 6000 years ago and yet we thought that the earth was flat until late 1800's. Makes you think. These tablets are real and can be seen at the Pergamont Museum, Berlin.
Apparently similar stories can be found elsewhere. Mayan texts describe some type of sky people descending from the heavens and in the Bible you have the Nephilim (also giants similar the Annunaki) Genesis 6:1-4 "The Nephilim were on the earth in those days - and also afterward - when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them." It also says "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years."
So maybe those Annunaki things are immortal and still runs this planet? That would explain a lot. According to some, most of these Annunaki left the planet more then 3000 years ago but are supposed to return around 2012-13, so I guess we just have to wait and see :rolleyes2:
NoRailgunner
Feb 2 2012, 14:50
Well and there was a guy who was saying that the Pyramids were build or placed by aliens not buy humans.... and he made a lot of money with this and similar of his "scientific research". Some people just want to believe in gods/myths or extraterrestrial interference. Why should aliens even bother or care about humans and earth?
Soul_Assassin
Feb 2 2012, 14:57
Why should aliens even bother or care about humans and earth?
because if you could play god, wouldn't you? We are constantly studying, observing and experimenting with other species on this planet.
Fenrisulven
Feb 2 2012, 15:04
Well and there was a guy who was saying that the Pyramids were build or placed by aliens not buy humans.... and he made a lot of money with this and similar of his "scientific research". Some people just want to believe in gods/myths or extraterrestrial interference. Why should aliens even bother or care about humans and earth?
Compared to the inhospitable atmosphere of most planets, Earth supports carbon based life forms rather well. Other then that, natural resources or just sheer curiosity perhaps? If we found intelligent life within reach, would we not investigate?
Consider the possibility that this alien civilization could be a hundreds times more advanced then us. Maybe they had our level of knowledge and technology five hundred years ago. Maybe a hundred thousand years ago? Makes you think what they could be capable of. Maybe they transcended into multidimensional beings not needing technology to travel within space and time :rolleyes: Who can say really.
-Martin-
Feb 2 2012, 16:47
@<hidden> + 1
Consider the possibility that this alien civilization could be a hundreds times more advanced then us. Maybe they had our level of knowledge and technology five hundred years ago. Maybe a hundred thousand years ago? Makes you think what they could be capable of. Maybe they transcended into multidimensional beings not needing technology to travel within space and time Who can say really.
Why does everyone automatically assume that aliens have to be some kind of superior life form with technology that is way more advanced than us? That they have to look like us, have big eyes and so on... For all we know they might not even have eyes and they might not even interact like we do. Plus if they are intelligent, who says that the technology that they use can be picked up by the technology that we use. Look at all the different species of animals on our own planet (the estimated number is between 4 to 30 million species) and only one of these species, the human species is capable of communicating with a complex language and only one specie is advanced enough to develop any kind of technology, which in itself is actually a miracle.
So what makes people think that if we come to another planet there has to be some intelligent life form there? Furthermore, we have to think outside of our own time zone. Look at the Earth 200 million years ago, there were dinosaurs here. We're at a different stage of evolution, but the planet with aliens might be way more behind than us, so there might still be creatures like dinosaurs there.
I think its basic human instinct to think that there is something higher than us out there because this is the system we encounter since we're born. First our parents are above us, then teachers in school and then when we become adults there is nobody above us so we have to think that there is god/aliens.
I think if we come to a different planet and meet aliens they will be completely different creatures which won’t be as technologically advanced at us and probably won’t even resemble anything we know right now.
Mark1028
Feb 2 2012, 16:55
Abs, are you a real dinosauroid or do you play joke on me???
Abs, are you a real dinosauroid or do you play joke on me???
dam, where´s that fry meme..
funnily enough i got stopped by two people on the way home from college who were looking a orange ball of light moving quickly across he sky, not faster then a normal passenger jet, but fast then planes would be flying over my area of dublin, about 5KM from dublin airport
i said to them its probably a Chinese Lateran as ive seen a quite a few flying around my area when it stopped and suddenly shot upwards into the clouds...probably just got caught the wind but their reaction was priceless "oh my god! :O" haha
Why does everyone automatically assume that aliens have to be some kind of superior life form with technology that is way more advanced than us?
I think if we come to a different planet and meet aliens they will be completely different creatures which won’t be as technologically advanced at us and probably won’t even resemble anything we know right now.
General consensus is:
If they come to us, they must be more advanced, as they have mastered interstellar travel, we (currently) on the other hand, struggle to get to the moon.
If we go to them, then we are likely to be more advanced, as we would have mastered interstellar travel.
Third option is we meet somewhere in the middle, a race that is somewhat comparable to us (we have travel, they have travel, approximately the same)
Again: Aliens that would come to this planet tomorrow WOULD be more advanced than us, because we can barely get off this rock, they will have mastered travelling 100's of light years in order to get here...
Max Power
Feb 2 2012, 17:52
funnily enough i got stopped by two people on the way home from college who were looking a orange ball of light moving quickly across he sky, not faster then a normal passenger jet, but fast then planes would be flying over my area of dublin, about 5KM from dublin airport
i said to them its probably a Chinese Lateran as ive seen a quite a few flying around my area when it stopped and suddenly shot upwards into the clouds...probably just got caught the wind but their reaction was priceless "oh my god! :O" haha
What you saw was swamp gas.
Another thing to consider is that if an alien race was advanced enough to make it to our solar system and were merely curious about us why would they need to come into our atmosphere to study us?
Currently we have satellites that can spy from orbit. Don't you think that an alien race that has advanced space travel technology can do the same, only better?
Hell, if someone can travel across solar systems/galaxies they could probably spy on us from the moon or mars or even from the edge of our solar system.
-Martin-
Feb 2 2012, 18:12
General consensus is:
If they come to us, they must be more advanced, as they have mastered interstellar travel, we (currently) on the other hand, struggle to get to the moon.
If we go to them, then we are likely to be more advanced, as we would have mastered interstellar travel.
Third option is we meet somewhere in the middle, a race that is somewhat comparable to us (we have travel, they have travel, approximately the same)
Again: Aliens that would come to this planet tomorrow WOULD be more advanced than us, because we can barely get off this rock, they will have mastered travelling 100's of light years in order to get here...
Hmm that’s true...
Option 4: We go to them, but they are also advanced but they go to someone else who is even more technologically advanced then them and us, because if they did master interstellar travel, why visit a bunch of monkeys?
Soul_Assassin
Feb 2 2012, 18:19
It could very well be that the missing leap in technology simply stems from some material (element) that simply does not exist on earth. We inherently think of aliens in terms of our own technological advances and limitations that we have come across here on earth.
One show about aliens stated rightfully that aliens dont have to be big: they can allso be so small that human eye dosent see them. In other dimensons there can be different laws of physics that makes everything tiny, or our dimension makes everything big.
One show about aliens stated rightfully that aliens dont have to be big: they can allso be so small that human eye dosent see them. In other dimensons there can be different laws of physics that makes everything tiny, or our dimension makes everything big.
damn nature you scary
Max Power
Feb 2 2012, 19:46
It could very well be that the missing leap in technology simply stems from some material (element) that simply does not exist on earth. We inherently think of aliens in terms of our own technological advances and limitations that we have come across here on earth.
That's stretching the boundaries of credibility, I think. We have, or have replicated, elements with every number of protons up to what is seemingly possible. The most massive atoms seem not to hold together for very long (fractions of a second). I don't think that the future holds much excitement for people expecting heretofore undiscovered elements. The most recently 'discovered' ones, such as ununhexium, has a half life of 60ms.
Serclaes
Feb 2 2012, 20:09
Yea but maybe we haven't found the right combination of elements. Like this transparent aluminium... ;)
Still, for interstellar travel we'd have to find a way to travel faster than light. Or who wants to live for generations on a ship...
Also: how about a fifth option? They are as technologically advanced as we are and have already sent a response to our SETI or satellites?
-Martin-
Feb 2 2012, 20:37
Still, for interstellar travel we'd have to find a way to travel faster than light. Or who wants to live for generations on a ship...
This would pose a number of problems anyway... Firstly let’s say you live on the ship for 3 generations... Your grand grand grand kids won't even know what the heck to look for on the new planet since they've never been to Earth and know nothing about the old planet and will probably stay on the planet they discovered because they finally got freedom, and who wants to sit on the ship for 3 generations again? So then they will colonise the planet, build pyramids and we will go through human history again until we get to the point where they look for aliens and fly back to Earth to meet them and so on…
But let's say they do decide to get back to Earth and 6 generations later they do... They will probably be scared of people after being isolated for that long (unless the ship is Startreck) and who knows if the space program will even be running on Earth 600 years later :tongue:
This is crazy... Possible but absolutely crazy :biggrin: Let's do it :tongue:
NacroxNicke
Feb 2 2012, 20:48
This would pose a number of problems anyway... Firstly let’s say you live on the ship for 3 generations... Your grand grand grand kids won't even know what the heck to look for on the new planet since they've never been to Earth and know nothing about the old planet and will probably stay on the planet they discovered because they finally got freedom, and who wants to sit on the ship for 3 generations again? So then they will colonise the planet, build pyramids and we will go through human history again until we get to the point where they look for aliens and fly back to Earth to meet them and so on…
But let's say they do decide to get back to Earth and 6 generations later they do... They will probably be scared of people after being isolated for that long (unless the ship is Startreck) and who knows if the space program will even be running on Earth 600 years later :tongue:
This is crazy... Possible but absolutely crazy :biggrin: Let's do it :tongue:
Sounds like Homeworld combined with human history, I like it.
Also: how about a fifth option? They are as technologically advanced as we are and have already sent a response to our SETI or satellites?
I believe that is known as "Dubstep" :P
Serclaes
Feb 2 2012, 21:16
Wait, they were in my modem? :P
Soul_Assassin
Feb 2 2012, 21:24
This would pose a number of problems anyway... Firstly let’s say you live on the ship for 3 generations... Your grand grand grand kids won't even know what the heck to look for on the new planet since they've never been to Earth and know nothing about the old planet and will probably stay on the planet they discovered because they finally got freedom, and who wants to sit on the ship for 3 generations again? So then they will colonise the planet, build pyramids and we will go through human history again until we get to the point where they look for aliens and fly back to Earth to meet them and so on…
But let's say they do decide to get back to Earth and 6 generations later they do... They will probably be scared of people after being isolated for that long (unless the ship is Startreck) and who knows if the space program will even be running on Earth 600 years later :tongue:
This is crazy... Possible but absolutely crazy :biggrin: Let's do it :tongue:
again, you are looking at it from the point of view of human logic. whats an alien generation (how old do they get, immortal maybe)? how do their decision making process work? how do they precieve time? applying human psychology?
Fenrisulven
Feb 2 2012, 22:28
@<hidden> + 1
Why does everyone automatically assume that aliens have to be some kind of superior life form with technology that is way more advanced than us? That they have to look like us, have big eyes and so on... For all we know they might not even have eyes and they might not even interact like we do. Plus if they are intelligent, who says that the technology that they use can be picked up by the technology that we use. Look at all the different species of animals on our own planet (the estimated number is between 4 to 30 million species) and only one of these species, the human species is capable of communicating with a complex language and only one specie is advanced enough to develop any kind of technology, which in itself is actually a miracle.
So what makes people think that if we come to another planet there has to be some intelligent life form there? Furthermore, we have to think outside of our own time zone. Look at the Earth 200 million years ago, there were dinosaurs here. We're at a different stage of evolution, but the planet with aliens might be way more behind than us, so there might still be creatures like dinosaurs there.
I think its basic human instinct to think that there is something higher than us out there because this is the system we encounter since we're born. First our parents are above us, then teachers in school and then when we become adults there is nobody above us so we have to think that there is god/aliens.
I think if we come to a different planet and meet aliens they will be completely different creatures which won’t be as technologically advanced at us and probably won’t even resemble anything we know right now.
Obviously they have to be more advanced. I don't think we will see dinosaurs capable of interstellar travel anytime soon.
Yea but maybe we haven't found the right combination of elements. Like this transparent aluminium... ;)
Still, for interstellar travel we'd have to find a way to travel faster than light. Or who wants to live for generations on a ship...
Also: how about a fifth option? They are as technologically advanced as we are and have already sent a response to our SETI or satellites?
According to some scientists and physicists, for example Michio Kaku co-founder of the string field theory, time and space is not consistent. In other words you don't really travel that far. Instead you bend space and time so you can get from point A to point B near instantly. Not something you easily explain to someone capable of thinking in 4 dimensions. These physicists figure out theories based on 15 dimensions or more. Maybe that's the reason to why the "aliens" never bothered to contact us. Imagine the frustration trying to explain yourself to a cockroach. - Hey Mr cockroach I'm sooo sorry I have to do this, but we have to run some tests you see. In the end everybody will benefit from this, please try to understand. :j: Maybe those abductions and lost time scenarios are simply animal testing procedures made for reasons too complicated for us to comprehend.
-Martin-
Feb 2 2012, 22:54
again, you are looking at it from the point of view of human logic. whats an alien generation (how old do they get, immortal maybe)? how do their decision making process work? how do they precieve time? applying human psychology?
But I'm talking about humans on the space ship going to another planet in generations http://kolobok.us/smiles/icq/scratch_one-s_head.gif there will be aliens on it too? http://kolobok.us/smiles/icq/biggrin.gif
You misunderstood me probably at the part when I said they decide to come back to Earth. I mean that if they colonise the planet and multiply on it, there will be two human races living on two planets Earth and the other planet, unknown to each other because Earth will think that the ship didn't make it and without Earth the space ship crew will have to resort to more or less a primitive way of living and after the original crew dies, their offspring will have to undergo history (similar to ours on Earth ) once again to develop the technology necessary to travel at the speed of light again. Once they do that they will probably not know that they came from Earth anymore and when they do contact Earth they will think that they found aliens but in fact they found their ancestors...
Damn this would make a bad ass movie :butbut:
---------- Post added at 23:54 ---------- Previous post was at 23:39 ----------
Obviously they have to be more advanced. I don't think we will see dinosaurs capable of interstellar travel anytime soon.
Read my post again and carefully and you will see that my post only refers to aliens on a planet that haven’t contacted or visited us yet and the theory of - if we ever go to an alien planet (which I said twice). I never said anything about aliens that visited us. If they did visit us they would obviously need to more advanced than us... I'm not a dinosaur... Or maybe I am Mark1028 :wink_o:
So what makes people think that if we come to another planet there has to be some intelligent life form there?
I think if we come to a different planet
Fenrisulven
Feb 2 2012, 22:57
Speaking of movies. I made one a few years ago while researching this subject, here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=At5A3buOJOM&context=C3cb6de1ADOEgsToPDskKYJHYJazpiJNY1sJWO1EKm
Like I said I have witnessed some crazy shit that I'm still unable to explain 10+ years later, but I'm open to the idea that it most likely was man made, or a natural phenomenon or sorts :scratchchin:
-Martin-
Feb 2 2012, 23:05
Awsome video Fenrisulven http://kolobok.us/smiles/icq/good.gif Really enjoyed it. I hope I live to see the day when we do meet aliens, if humanity lives to that day that is http://kolobok.us/smiles/icq/biggrin.gif
Aliens don't visit Earth, the distances are too great and lets face it there is no evidence of it ever occurring. As for technologically advanced civilisations far in excess of ours, they need a planet around a second generation star on which to evolve. Our sun is one oldest of these, so it's possible we could be one of the most advanced species in our galaxy.
Roswell where all this started?
It was a US test of a balloon to carry spying equipment over the USSR (project Mogul). They got the idea from Japanese fire balloons used during WW2. It wouldn't have gone any further unless someone hadn't released a ridiculous cover story to the press. (I came up with this idea independently before the report on project Mogul was made public)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_balloon#Post_World_War_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mogul
Thani '82
Feb 3 2012, 04:20
May I suggest a few supposedly hypothetical things?
Ofcourse, don't go all too serious on it, unless you wish to entertain your own brains really.. I have ample understanding of the galaxy, or whater it is called. But my suggestion is quite simple really.
Is it not better to focus on planet Earth, instead misfocussing ourselves on the outerspace, whilst we know for pretty much certain what happens on this planet we live on, whilst we also know gazing won't solve a thing about our problems here..
Another suggestion if I may; Going along the whole debate myself here actually: Do you guys believe in parallel dimensions? As in, imagine yourself to have various forms of Earth each in a different age.. That might mean -- call it far fetched all you want, but I've seen crazier ideas been publicized though.. -- that we're dealing with various stages our planet is in. Ofcourse, nobody had travled back or forth in time, in our living excistance, as in by means of flesh body really.. But as the Earth is round, and has various timezones herself running East to West as being a matter that is confirmed.. Why should such not be the very same for parallel dimensions?
I had seen the word religion being mentioned here and there if I am correctly recalling it though, but bible is quite misinterpreterred I suppose; They talk about deeds in life, as in manner of control right.. Bad goes to hell, good goes to heaven.. Yeah.. So what has that to do with all this? Frankly alot.. But many may not notice though: If up is good, then those who do well, are rewarded another life, upon another planet, yet perhaps as Earth may be the only known planet sustaining life the way it has done up till now, with us thereupon included.. I cannot think of souls of deceased to travel millions of miles really, but instantly going to another life if they'd happen to done well..
Now same for having done bad.. Hell, is reffered to as an inferno.. And Earth's subterranean-mantles are quite just that.. Boily hot molten rock material flowing around.. But it also stand for a downward movement.. Thus that says, not going to an advanced level of Earth, but going to a lower level version really, as equal to traveling back in time, by means of souls going back and forth, once all lifeforms on a current dimension of Earth's timezone as we know it, or parallel to it are fullfilled and lived through.
In that light it should by relative means, not matter much what we do in one life, but what we have done in many.. Why else would people like to focus solely on a monetary matter for example, whilst they fully well know they can't take financial wealth along with them into a next life... That is if you believe in such.. Everyone for themselves.. But hypothetically speaking ofcourse.. And then we have many ancient cultures coming to light.. I don't think we deal with a matter of outerspace, but more like an innerspace really..
No.. The earth is Not hollow as in having holes at or around the Artic or Antartic really.. Or volcanic activity and earthplate tectonics would not be well defined as they are now.. Holes like that, mean a balloon suggestively presented as constantly expanding by means of the Pangea-theory having risen as of late, such would have lead to see Antartica for one, being swallowed hole towards the innerside of Earth that is supposed to be hypothetically there..
Earth has to be solid.. But on the very matter of time.. Nothing has been solidly proven yet! What are your thoughts about this? Why would ancient cultures have such great features bestowed on their knowledge-base whilst we have mere destruction going on all about and around us on this very globe in most cases atleast? Again, this is all merely matter of hypothesis with the intention of stimulating the debate to everyone's own interpretation really.. I figure nobody can be fully right, but until all is absolutely clear, if that even ever will be so, nobody is utterly wrong either. For we think we know alot.. But compared to Dinosaurs having been around, we ain't nothing but Mosquitodung on needle of a clock ticking away the time..
We haven't been around thát long, so how can we even think we have evolved so much, as if to "conquer" space so to say.. Not to us, and certainly not in this planetary destructive way of living.. And worse: One another.. Imagine Africans to be outerspace aliëns.. Would they even want to treat us seriously after what had been done to Africa being looted? Do we really want to spend money on search for other planets, instead of letting that be, and focus on problems here and now? Is it even wise to go out and venture beyond the safe boundaries of what we happen to know? Perhaps people may miss some of the supposed interstellar action going on.. But who says íf we happen to ever stumble into aliëns as seen through the stereotypical classic ways coming from some far distant planet to attack us, or to guide us to some amazing crazy stuff going on.. Who says we would treat them right?? Who says we ain't gonna send nukes after them really, on the very spot they even dare to tiptoe-park their crafts or have their fluïd feet touch the very dew upon "our" lawns??
Mankind has been known to be destructive to it's environment, one another, by means of technology and even before the advent of currently known technology. Are we truly thát interesting for a whole bunch of stereotypically presumed aliën lifeforms, other then being an interstellar sitcom being watched, having our tinfoil hats on, unnoticedly having some binocular-tube sticking through the toilet-drain as we do our things on the toilet? Yeah we may think it's all gross, but who knows what aliëns do like if they'd happen to ever meet us, or are perhaps already amongst us if you will? We do not know..
But I would feel highly uncomfortable to constantly being monitored by an etheral presance buzzing around me in an unseen manner mostly.. Or to some what many refer to as effects of depression, or psychotic episodes even being perceived as reality by means of their minds supposedly playing trick on them, seeing things that are supposedly not there.. But who's to say? How much of our own brains have we actually sifted through and happen to fully know about speaking percentage-wise? And isn't it true that "modern" humans are actually using 24-some percent for actual thinking-processes of solving problems and such?
Would have a mass-piss-your-pants festival going on once we do happen to have an aliën lick the grass in our backyards really.. Especially if they happen to flow right into your body like water, looking at you from inside out, watching through your eyes, smelling scent through your nose, hearing through your ears even, and decide to take you for an odd jog doing things you'd never would've done before whilst having self-control over your own body, where you suddenly find yourself left out of all that...
I'd say, better focus closer to home, and first problems being first served right out of the door before we can talk outerspace with full ease of mind really.. Don't wish to be the running joke of the galaxy along with my brawling bums bruising along..
Any thoughts about this really? Or is thing going too overboard and way too offtopic perhaps?? Let me know please, I'd really like a word from any of you folks with whatever you wish to share about this.. You may even call it utter nonsense of what I have said here really, but let's not forget as some said before.. What we do not understand is often put in the corner as fantasy fables, until proven otherwise.. And yes.. even then we may not comprehend anything from what we experience indeed... I for one hope to never actually meet one of those buggers.. For the biggest aliën danger to my home, is an unwanted person robbing my home empty to feel utterly uncomfortable about if that would happen.. Many times more likely to even become part of people's life experience really... The best known aliëns are those close at home, being separated like strangers like the harmony of a false-tuned orchestra playing a horribly composed tune.. And I'd think such is only the case for mankind herself where it concerns this planet, in this here, and this now we'd happen to be at in our living fleshy form.
Anyways, happy writing if you'd happen to be willing to answer ofcourse. Thanks for reading, and my humble apologies for the word-walls... ;)
Considering the latest discoveries of extrasolar planets, these "guesses" seem way off. Even with our limited technology we have discovered quite a few rocky planets, several of which are estimated to be in or around their parent star's habitable zone.
So it seems that Earth may not be so unique after all.
What a happy coincidence: Newfound alien planet is best candidate yet to support life, scientists say (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=habitable-planet-gj-667cc).
The article was published yesterday. :D
Fenrisulven
Feb 3 2012, 09:37
Considering the fact everything is just energy vibrating at different frequencies resulting in manifestation of energy. E = mc². Energy can never be destroyed, only converted, so therefore everything must have been in existence, infinitely? The way we experience reality is limited to the capabilities of our senses. Maybe the reality we experience looks completely different if experienced with different senses. Maybe there are senses that can pick up energy waves making you see through the limits of three dimensional space?
Let's put it this way. Imagine a blind man sitting on top of a mountain. What is real to him is the image of the surrounding created by his brain based solely upon what his senses can register. Now, what if he suddenly could open his eyes and see?
What if we are blind?
"What is ‘real’? How do you define ‘real’? If you mean what we can taste, smell, hear and feel then what’s ‘real’ is nothing more than electrical signals interpreted by your brain." -Morpheus, The Matrix
Hi all
Aliens did it! God did it! My imaginary friend did it! Elvis lives! Freddy Star Ate My Hamster! WW II Bomber Found On Moon!
Everyone is still talking
...BALLS! (http://m.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jan/30/blue-marble-mystery-rains-dorset?cat=uk&type=article) ...
Until the day ET calls, collect, or we overhear a crossed line, or someone with an alien accent calls to set up our new stargate, followed by some one in an intergallactic call center trying to sell us new soffets and facias for our stargate, if we have a few minutes, have we thought about changing our stargate energy supplier? Damn should have ticked the opt out box on the stargate registration. Or an alien accent calls to say our stargate has been affected by a virus and if we give them our credit card details they will fix it, its spewing spam all over space, what we have not got a stargate in this solar system, ok have you thought about changing you energy suplier...
Or just to say: Whazuuup!
Until that day Everyone is still talking
...BALLS! (http://m.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jan/30/blue-marble-mystery-rains-dorset?cat=uk&type=article) ...
Kind regards walker
Fenrisulven
Feb 3 2012, 10:04
Where did life first begin to evolve on this planet?
Scientists Discover The Oldest, Largest Body Of Water In Existence--In Space (http://www.fastcompany.com/1769468/scientist-discover-the-oldest-largest-body-of-water-in-existence-in-space)
Max Power
Feb 3 2012, 10:12
Considering the fact everything is just energy vibrating at different frequencies resulting in manifestation of energy.
String theory is a theory. What they have proof of is sub atomic particles, nothing more.
E = mc². Energy can never be destroyed, only converted, so therefore everything must have been in existence, infinitely?
No.
The way we experience reality is limited to the capabilities of our senses. Maybe the reality we experience looks completely different if experienced with different senses. Maybe there are senses that can pick up energy waves making you see through the limits of three dimensional space?
Let's put it this way. Imagine a blind man sitting on top of a mountain. What is real to him is the image of the surrounding created by his brain based solely upon what his senses can register. Now, what if he suddenly could open his eyes and see?
What if we are blind?
"What is ‘real’? How do you define ‘real’? If you mean what we can taste, smell, hear and feel then what’s ‘real’ is nothing more than electrical signals interpreted by your brain." -Morpheus, The Matrix\
By bringing up philosophical skepticism, you just undid everything that you posted above. "Considering that everything is just energy vibrating at different frequencies" is mutually exclusive with "How do you define 'real'?".
Hi all
The only method of discussing ET at the moment that is worth a Damn is the Drake Equation.
That said recent findings have pushed the value well above 2 for the Milkyway Galaxy. And if civilizations become immortal then it is significantly above the tens of thousands. So we may get a call.
Kind regards walker
NoRailgunner
Feb 3 2012, 10:48
Aliens who are able to travel through space and time are imo not so interested in human race. Why they should save or even teach human beeing? Those aliens are by far too advanced and too occupied with better things to do than wasting their time/energy with planet earth and its residents/population.
This sounds like battlestar galactica (awesome show BTW)
On that note anyone care to spoil and tell me did they find earth in the end??
Yes, but it was Earth a few hundred thousand or even million years in the past. It was hinted that the half-human half-cylon girl Hera was "mitochondrial eve".
Dead3yez
Feb 3 2012, 11:45
Aliens who are able to travel through space and time are imo not so interested in human race. Why they should save or even teach human beeing? Those aliens are by far too advanced and too occupied with better things to do than wasting their time/energy with planet earth and its residents/population.
What if it's the first planet they come across which has life on? :P
Fenrisulven
Feb 3 2012, 12:08
String theory is a theory. What they have proof of is sub atomic particles, nothing more.
Correction. The formula E = mc ² in theoretical physics is about the relationship between energy (E) in all its forms in addition to mass, and mass (m) using the speed of light in vacuum (c).
String theory on the other hand is a model of physics that describes matter and it's tiniest building blocks. The fundamental building block within the "string theory" is a one-dimensional vibrating "string" which means that they have a spatial dimension unlike previous physical models that were based on zero-dimensional particles.
No.
Care to elaborate why this is incorrect? :j:
By bringing up philosophical skepticism, you just undid everything that you posted above. "Considering that everything is just energy vibrating at different frequencies" is mutually exclusive with "How do you define 'real'?".
Clearly you misunderstood. I used a different approach to explain the very same thing. Correct me if I'm wrong but, the topic of this thread "Aliens and UFOs" is to discuss the possibility of extra-terrestrials visiting us and whether interstellar travel is possible or not.
NoRailgunner
Feb 3 2012, 12:41
What if it's the first planet they come across which has life on? :P
Without any evidence of warp drives or similar technology they would simply move to another planet or galaxy. :tongue:
Mondkalb
Feb 3 2012, 13:12
I guess they'd do the same we would do if we were to find life on Mars:
Take a few specimens and bottle them up.
Yes, but it was Earth a few hundred thousand or even million years in the past. It was hinted that the half-human half-cylon girl Hera was "mitochondrial eve".
thanks for info :) sorry for going abit offtopic but found an intersting link where the actors explain abit about the show and storyline after the finale
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/03/20/battlestar-galactica-watched-the-finale-still-got-questions-weve-got-answers/
To me the universe seems too quiet for me. When thinking all the hundreds of millions of stars and planets ,I bet what we see and feel dosent even come close to explain whats really happening in the universe. Maybe all the others are in different dimension and/or outside our understanding and senses. What im trying to say is there should be hell of alot more intelligent activity than what we are experiencing right now. I mean not even a single one radio transmission.
da12thMonkey
Feb 3 2012, 15:02
Care to elaborate why this is incorrect? :j:
Invoking the first law of thermodynamics to suggest something that would be in violation of the second law - it's bold to say the least.
The second law is such that entropy of a system will always go from an ordered (low entropy) state to a more chaotic (high entropy) state unless external energy is provided to a system. Therefore there must be natural causality, so long as the universe has a finite amount of energy through the whole system, and only rearranges its distribution to affect internal change. The low entropy universe could not exist after the high entropy universe and the high entropy universe could not exist without having been a low entropy universe to begin with.
-Martin-
Feb 3 2012, 15:16
Oh man, my brain hurts :crazy_o:
http://www.masjidma.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/burning_brain.jpg
Invoking the first law of thermodynamics to suggest something that would be in violation of the second law - it's bold to say the least.
The second law is such that entropy of a system will always go from an ordered (low entropy) state to a more chaotic (high entropy) state unless external energy is provided to a system. Therefore there must be natural causality, so long as the universe has a finite amount of energy through the whole system, and only rearranges its distribution to affect internal change. The low entropy universe could not exist after the high entropy universe and the high entropy universe could not exist without having been a low entropy universe to begin with.
I thought the theory was that when something is mixed it, lets say water and salt it adds the chaos (high entropy) state of the universe. So in the beginning everything is organized and in the end everything is chaotic. This is a old theory, which has nowdays been challenged. I might talk completely bollocks, because of bad memory and i read finnish articles.
-martin- I know how u feel. I allways like to read and watch stuff about universe and physics, but in the end im allways like WTF did I just read/watched:j:
da12thMonkey
Feb 3 2012, 18:41
I thought the theory was that when something is mixed it, lets say water and salt it adds the chaos (high entropy) state of the universe. So in the beginning everything is organized and in the end everything is chaotic.
That's part of it; derived from the fundamental postulate of statistical mechanics: that an isolated system has no preference for the organisation of its microsystems - therefore the arrangement of microsystems that creates an organised system is the result of random chance.
Since entropy is a measure of the number of ways that the microsystems can be organised within a system to produce the same system, high entropy is more probable than low entropy, because while you can pull apart and rearrange a chaotic system in many millions of ways and still come out with a chaotic system (high entropy); you can only pull an organised system apart and rearrange it in an organised fashion in a few ways (low entropy). However you can pull apart an organised system and rearrange it in a less organised way, and there are lots of possible outcomes for that (low entropy to higher entropy). As such, it normally takes external energy directed at the system to rearrange it in an organised fashion to overcome simple probability.
If we understand the universe to be the ultimate system in isolation with no energy being created or destroyed within it (first law); there cannot be an external system providing the energy to affect high-entropy to low-entropy change in the net system of our universe. Therefore net entropy can only ever be observed to be decreasing on a universal scale. To travel back in time would be going from a universe that had high entropy to one where it had lower entropy which can't be done without applying energy to the universal system.
I am aware of the challenges to the second law of thermodynamics - I was just pointing out the particular irony of using the first law to suggest something that is impossible under the second law. I think almost all scientific models of the universe either require both to be true, or neither to be true. This particular one can relate to the 'heat death' of the universe.
ProfTournesol
Feb 3 2012, 19:10
That's part of it; derived from the fundamental postulate of statistical mechanics: that an isolated system has no preference for the organisation of its microsystems - therefore the arrangement of microsystems that creates an organised system is the result of random chance.
Since entropy is a measure of the number of ways that the microsystems can be organised within a system to produce the same system, high entropy is more probable than low entropy, because while you can pull apart and rearrange a chaotic system in many millions of ways and still come out with a chaotic system (high entropy); you can only pull an organised system apart and rearrange it in an organised fashion in a few ways (low entropy). However you can pull apart an organised system and rearrange it in a less organised way, and there are lots of possible outcomes for that (low entropy to higher entropy). As such, it normally takes external energy directed at the system to rearrange it in an organised fashion to overcome simple probability.
If we understand the universe to be the ultimate system in isolation with no energy being created or destroyed within it (first law); there cannot be an external system providing the energy to affect high-entropy to low-entropy change in the net system of our universe. Therefore net entropy can only ever be observed to be decreasing on a universal scale. To travel back in time would be going from a universe that had high entropy to one where it had lower entropy which can't be done without applying energy to the universal system.
I am aware of the challenges to the second law of thermodynamics - I was just pointing out the particular irony of using the first law to suggest something that is impossible under the second law. I think almost all scientific models of the universe either require both to be true, or neither to be true. This particular one can relate to the 'heat death' of the universe.
All this proves me wrong on one point : all the Brits don't get drunk at the pub on Friday evening :drinking:
-Martin-
Feb 3 2012, 19:43
All this proves me wrong on one point : all the Brits don't get drunk at the pub on Friday evening
Because on Friday evening the pub is occupied by Eastern Europeans, cheers :cheers:
To me the universe seems too quiet for me. When thinking all the hundreds of millions of stars and planets ,I bet what we see and feel dosent even come close to explain whats really happening in the universe. Maybe all the others are in different dimension and/or outside our understanding and senses. What im trying to say is there should be hell of alot more intelligent activity than what we are experiencing right now. I mean not even a single one radio transmission.
The evolution of intelligent life is linked to the evolution of the universe. The conditions have to be right. 1st we had to wait for stars to convert all that H2 into larger elements. Then we had to wait for those stars to novae and spew it out so planets could form around 2nd generation stars. Then we had to wait for planetary systems to stabilise. Then we had to wait for the levels of radioactivity to decrease, the earth was once strewn with radioactive elements that took billions of years to decay. Then we had to wait for an atmosphere of the right composition, liquid water etc.
In short, just because the universe is old doesn't mean the conditions have always existed for intelligent life. It's possible much of it is at the same stage as us.
froggyluv
Feb 4 2012, 01:20
We're still discovering new species here on Earth so it's pretty foolish to think we can determine what else is out there as we're just fleas on a toenail - croutons in the salad bowl of life... Do we really know exactly how big the Universe is and more importantly -whats outside of it if it has boundries?
Well organisms of any kind have to be made out of something. For life to exist in the known Universe you have to wait for the stars to make other elements apart from hydrogen, which was the only element to exist after the big bang. Then you have to get that stuff of life out of the 1st generation stars (novae) and give enough time for that stuff to be in a usable state and for the right conditions to exist. Evolution of life is linked to stellar and planetary evolution, very few people realise this fact. As for other dimensions, energy beings, ghosts and goblins, I'll leave that for the writers of science fiction. The periodic table is reasonably small and the elements in it that can be used to generate living organisms amount to only a handful. You might say it's not possible to know what's out there, I would disagree. Start with the building blocks the universe gave us, the periodic table, and the choices are fairly limited.....
Well organisms of any kind have to be made out of something. For life to exist in the known Universe you have to wait for the stars to make other elements apart from hydrogen, which was the only element to exist after the big bang. Then you have to get that stuff of life out of the 1st generation stars (novae) and give enough time for that stuff to be in a usable state and for the right conditions to exist. Evolution of life is linked to stellar and planetary evolution, very few people realise this fact. As for other dimensions, energy beings, ghosts and goblins, I'll leave that for the writers of science fiction. The periodic table is reasonably small and the elements in it that can be used to generate living organisms amount to only a handful. You might say it's not possible to know what's out there, I would disagree. Start with the building blocks the universe gave us, the periodic table, and the choices are fairly limited.....
Yes I understand this, but what we have discovered recently seems that all things are not so simple. Even the preiodic table might need a third dimension as the element ,such as aluminium can organize in a state that it behaves similar to other other element in periodic table (super atom). Yesterday I read that they found fourth earth-like planet circling a dwarf M star, wich has no heavy elements in it. and scientists are baffled as they tought that star like that cant have rock planets. But they found one, and that planet is sofar the best candidate to have liquid water in it. I believe, like einstein himself sayed, that its amazing, that nature could behave so constant and u could make so complex and accurate calculations and laws out of it. Maybe the theory of everything is that there is no theory in the first place? I know this is far fetched, but the universe is truly a confusing place. and the more we learn about it, more confusing it gets
DMarkwick
Feb 4 2012, 10:53
Yes I understand this, but what we have discovered recently seems that all things are not so simple. Even the preiodic table might need a third dimension as the element ,such as aluminium can organize in a state that it behaves similar to other other element in periodic table (super atom). Yesterday I read that they found fourth earth-like planet circling a dwarf M star, wich has no heavy elements in it. and scientists are baffled as they tought that star like that cant have rock planets. But they found one, and that planet is sofar the best candidate to have liquid water in it. I believe, like einstein himself sayed, that its amazing, that nature could behave so constant and u could make so complex and accurate calculations and laws out of it. Maybe the theory of everything is that there is no theory in the first place? I know this is far fetched, but the universe is truly a confusing place. and the more we learn about it, more confusing it gets
You cannot second-guess the universe, it will be what it will be. A while ago, I was in a position where I had to think of algorithms to generate random objects on a landscape, in a "realistic" way, meaning that spawnings had to have a filter to prevent nonsensical scenery.
Later that same week, I was driving across the countryside and I saw a ploughed field. In the middle of that ploughed field, for no apparent reason, was a green Hillman Imp car. And next to the Hillman Imp car was a sleeping duck.
Yes I understand this, but what we have discovered recently seems that all things are not so simple. Even the preiodic table might need a third dimension as the element ,such as aluminium can organize in a state that it behaves similar to other other element in periodic table (super atom). Yesterday I read that they found fourth earth-like planet circling a dwarf M star, wich has no heavy elements in it. and scientists are baffled as they thought that star like that cant have rock planets. But they found one, and that planet is sofar the best candidate to have liquid water in it. I believe, like einstein himself sayed, that its amazing, that nature could behave so constant and u could make so complex and accurate calculations and laws out of it. Maybe the theory of everything is that there is no theory in the first place? I know this is far fetched, but the universe is truly a confusing place. and the more we learn about it, more confusing it gets
Clusters of atoms behaving as a superatom are unique to metals, already known for their habit of sharing electrons and would not have much influence on the creation of life. The periodic table would remain unaltered because atoms are defined by the constituents of the nucleus not the number of electrons in the electron shell.
Planets around class M stars are very rare as they are 1st generation stars. Typically the planets are gas giants mainly consisting of hydrogen. In rare cases of other types of planet being present it is thought that the material either comes from somewhere else, e.g the star was part of a binary system and the larger twin went nova. Or, that the material was ejected from the star itself. Class M stars are small and fully convective and the planets orbit very close and have orbital periods measured in days and weeks. A gas giant in close orbit can disrupt the stars magnetic field and causes huge solar flares.
I believe you may be talking about Gliese 581 or Gliese 667 C? Saying the planets are earth like and rocky is actually a bit of ill informed press speculation designed to sell more copies. All they can determine is that some of the planets have a similar mass to the earth (most are larger). They don't actually know what they are made of or what radius they are. As always, don't believe the hype.....
Clusters of atoms behaving as a superatom are unique to metals, already known for their habit of sharing electrons and would not have much influence on the creation of life. The periodic table would remain unaltered because atoms are defined by the constituents of the nucleus not the number of electrons in the electron shell.
Planets around class M stars are very rare as they are 1st generation stars. Typically the planets are gas giants mainly consisting of hydrogen. In rare cases of other types of planet being present it is thought that the material either comes from somewhere else, e.g the star was part of a binary system and the larger twin went nova. Or, that the material was ejected from the star itself. Class M stars are small and fully convective and the planets orbit very close and have orbital periods measured in days and weeks. A gas giant in close orbit can disrupt the stars magnetic field and causes huge solar flares.
I believe you may be talking about Gliese 581 or Gliese 667 C? Saying the planets are earth like and rocky is actually a bit of ill informed press speculation designed to sell more copies. All they can determine is that some of the planets have a similar mass to the earth (most are larger). They don't actually know what they are made of or what radius they are. As always, don't believe the hype.....
No need for hyped up Science press here. all the news services are factual and informative :) I maybe just explaining wrong as english isn´t my frist language :o Anyways thanks for info, actually as I read thru the news it didnt state, that the planet was a rocky planet, all it said its propably smaller than earth and more study is needed. All im saying though is sometimes truth is stranger than fiction ...
@<hidden> what the hell is "green Hillman Imp car" :confused:
DMarkwick
Feb 4 2012, 15:21
@<hidden> what the hell is "green Hillman Imp car" :confused:
http://www.anythingaboutcars.com/images/1968_Hillman_Imp.jpg
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wear/content/images/2006/05/25/sleeping_duck1_470x353.jpg
froggyluv
Feb 4 2012, 15:55
The periodic table is reasonably small and the elements in it that can be used to generate living organisms amount to only a handful. You might say it's not possible to know what's out there, I would disagree.
I really don't understand what your saying here -that because humans have a periodic element table we or you specifically know whats out there :crazy_o:
Just because we know something about the building blocks of life (on Earth) -and even that can evolve such as the discovery of multi celled organisms that don't require oxygen -doesn't mean we know jack about the almost infinte possiblities of different species. Heck, we don't fully know what Dark Energy and Dark Matter is (of course there are theories) and asking an astrophysicist about the environment around the Big Bang you'll hear theories as wild as the craziest Religious types.
-Martin-
Feb 4 2012, 16:02
Hillman Imp car picture
LoL, exactly the same car is parked in a street next to my house, but its brown. It’s been there for so long that it probably has roots :tongue:
I really don't understand what your saying here -that because humans have a periodic element table we or you specifically know whats out there :crazy_o:
Just because we know something about the building blocks of life (on Earth) -and even that can evolve such as the discovery of multi celled organisms that don't require oxygen -doesn't mean we know jack about the almost infinte possiblities of different species. Heck, we don't fully know what Dark Energy and Dark Matter is (of course there are theories) and asking an astrophysicist about the environment around the Big Bang you'll hear theories as wild as the craziest Religious types.
If you read back I was saying the evolution of life is tied to stellar and planetary evolution because only hydrogen was available after the big bang. The heavier elements had to be created using nuclear fusion in stars, then planetary formation, time to allow radioactive decay etc.
Go and look at the periodic table and basic biochemistry - you will note that there are few building blocks available and generally they only fit together a certain way. While you can't predict how many legs or eyes an organism will have, there are not an infinite number of options for basic biochemistry, so you can predict that limited range.
Dark matter/dark energy/environmental condition after the big bang aren't really relevant to what I was discussing..
froggyluv
Feb 4 2012, 16:54
Kw8dcb8iKSM
@<hidden>: The point is, even armed with your periodic table none of us has any clue of how varied lifeforms may be in infinite environments. You spoke of Hobgoblins etc... there may very well be creatures that make our fantasy stuff look tame...imagine a human sized virus that lives outside of its host :)
I kinda agree with PELHAM here though. I once read an article, that modern physics is in a crossroads: Do they keep hunting for those big theory`s (1 big unified theory of everything) and allow the theorys to grow and become so complex that only a handful of scientists will be able to understand them. Thats allready happening now with string theories and theories where multiple dimensions are involved. Allso the measurement tools will become so big and expensive, it will be harder to prove the theories right. Without measurement the theories will just be theories. Other road is to focus what we have now, and help develop new technologies for everyday life, wich would be the best, looking at the world we live in now.
@<hidden>: The point is, even armed with your periodic table none of us has any clue of how varied lifeforms may be in infinite environments. You spoke of Hobgoblins etc... there may very well be creatures that make our fantasy stuff look tame...imagine a human sized virus that lives outside of its host :)
1. I was talking about basic biochemistry.
2. There is no such thing as an infinite number of environments, particularly if we are talking about where life can evolve.
3. I'm not particularly interested in the sci-fi field of imaginary monsters. If you want to talk science and sense I will respond, if not......
froggyluv
Feb 4 2012, 18:05
Again I point to your post
You might say it's not possible to know what's out there, I would disagree. Start with the building blocks the universe gave us, the periodic table, and the choices are fairly limited.....
Ok, then please enlighten us scientifically on the exact nature of whats out there...
If your meaning only the elementary 'we know whats out there as they will be built from the same group of elements as we are aware of' - then fair enough but thats hardly the point I was making. And the fact is we haven't discovered all elements yet http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/06/04/two-new-elements-join-the-periodic-table/ ..so to state we could determine the absolute nature in a 'very limited field' of alien life reeks of the arrogance Dr. Kaku referenced.
Again I point to your post
Ok, then please enlighten us scientifically on the exact nature of whats out there...
If your meaning only the elementary 'we know whats out there as they will be built from the same group of elements as we are aware of' - then fair enough but thats hardly the point I was making. And the fact is we haven't discovered all elements yet http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/06/04/two-new-elements-join-the-periodic-table/ ..so to state we could determine the absolute nature in a 'very limited field' of alien life reeks of the arrogance Dr. Kaku referenced.
Until you can comprehend what you read and actually understand some basic science I can't enlighten you further about anything much. Your premise that life could be based on large, highly unstable, radioactive elements that can only exist under specific circumstances for a few seconds or milliseconds, perhaps only in nature near stellar cores, is rather bizarre.
Your video of Dr Kaku is about the field of theoretical physics and interplanitary communication not evolution or alien life, so your references are also irrelevant to the discussion at hand. So I can't even be certain you understand your own argument. Feel free to reply, I have better things to do like play Arma 2 and will not be responding further.
froggyluv
Feb 4 2012, 22:25
LOL -condescending much...:icon_rolleyes:
You some how took it upon yourself that all statements based in a UFO & ALIEN thread must be based off your knowledge of Bio-Chemistry.... My intial statement was never meant to be confined in such a limited manner and it's pretty presumptuous of you to demand that. My premise was to illustrate that you are trying to encapsulate all discussion in a field that is inherently fraught with both scientific and wild conjecture by it's very nature.
Good luck knowing all with your ever changing, dynamic periodic table.
Max Power
Feb 4 2012, 23:24
Correction. The formula E = mc ² in theoretical physics is about the relationship between energy (E) in all its forms in addition to mass, and mass (m) using the speed of light in vacuum (c).
String theory on the other hand is a model of physics that describes matter and it's tiniest building blocks. The fundamental building block within the "string theory" is a one-dimensional vibrating "string" which means that they have a spatial dimension unlike previous physical models that were based on zero-dimensional particles.
I don't know why you keep coming back with explanations of theories. They are theories. Please link me to proof of strings that is not a mathematical model that describes a possibility.
Care to elaborate why this is incorrect? :j:
Sure. One statement does not imply the other.
Clearly you misunderstood. I used a different approach to explain the very same thing. Correct me if I'm wrong but, the topic of this thread "Aliens and UFOs" is to discuss the possibility of extra-terrestrials visiting us and whether interstellar travel is possible or not.
That has nothing to do with what you were talking about in the first place, unless you are attempting to say that the kooky topic of the thread justifies other, unrelated, scientific moonchild dreaming and other pseudometaphysical subject matter. You said that all matter is energy and all energy, matter. What you are talking about when you are invoking the laws of conservation of matter and energy and the energy content of matter, is objective reality. Objective reality does not depend on your ability to perceive.
I think what you're trying to say is that based on string theory, there is a possibility that we are not able to perceive all of the forms that strings can take. Generally, that statement is true. Perhaps we can't interact with our universe on every level that is possible. The problem is that you're basing this stuff on string theory, which is not verifiable, and using other physics theories or maxims to describe a psychological limitation.
---------- Post added at 16:24 ---------- Previous post was at 16:19 ----------
Until you can comprehend what you read and actually understand some basic science I can't enlighten you further about anything much.
PELHAM
I am getting tired of your flamebaiting.
Until you comprehend basic social graces, and read and actually understand the forum rules, there is not much I can do enlighten you about your conduct, except start issuing infractions. Please tone down your rhetoric.
STALKERGB
Feb 5 2012, 09:11
BALLS! (http://m.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jan/30/blue-marble-mystery-rains-dorset?cat=uk&type=article)
Apparently they have an explanation for you Blue Balls (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/feb/03/blue-balls-mystery-solved-scientists?newsfeed=true) walker...
That said, they look a bit like Xploderz ammo to me, basically the same as the explanation above but still:
http://mylittleme.com/images/2011/10/orbeez-xploderz.jpg
Your premise that life could be based on large, highly unstable, radioactive elements that can only exist under specific circumstances for a few seconds or milliseconds, perhaps only in nature near stellar cores, is rather bizarre
Bizarre maybe, but that doesn't always mean impossible does it?
As SA says, Ancient Aliens is quite interesting if you sift through the BS that is in there.
Sorry, but I just don't see it, unless you're hinting at something different when you say 'interesting'. The show has numerous flaws in argument and methodology that I don't see how it can be taken seriously.
On the other hand, there are hundreds of books, journal articles and documentaries out there on the ancient world, created by actual trained historians and archaeologists who have spent years at university, sifting through archives, on hundreds of digs and who continuously debate on their topics that will give one a more accurate and interesting analysis of ancient history.
STALKERGB
Feb 5 2012, 20:37
Sorry, but I just don't see it, unless you're hinting at something different when you say 'interesting'. The show has numerous flaws in argument and methodology that I don't see how it can be taken seriously.
Lol I find UFO Hunters interesting but I don't take it seriously, same with Ancient Aliens, regardless of things like proper methodology i personally always find it interesting to see the ideas and views people come up with, doesn't mean I believe those viewpoints but also doesn't make them any less interesting.
Hi all
It is possible that there may be stable trans-uranic elements but such elements would be unlikely to be created naturally and as such, other than an artificially created source, the probability of their existence would be very low. Conversely the probability that a life form could use them as part of their chemistry is quite high though. The reason being that if they exist it would be an advanced civilization that created them and they would only create them in any numbers if there was a significant advantage in their use. Applying a version of the Anthropic principle of course.
On the matter of other chemistry for life. Carbon is the dominant element because it is capable of forming complex macro and long chain molecules of varying geometries; it is that complexity that is needed for the diversity from which life can evolve but silicon might be a possible life form building block as it is capable of a degree of complexity in its molecular arrangement.
Also a self organizing life form based on different temperatures and pressures is a possibility. Theoreticaly self organization and information retention at superconducting temperatures are a possibility. Chemistry at high pressure is significantly different to how we experience chemistry here at one earth atmosphere, so exotic life forms on gas giant are a possibility. A life form based on high temperature and pressure plasma is less likely but one never knows.
I consider life to be anything with the capabilities for self replication, comprehension of self and environment and motivation to adjust both itself or its environment to further its existence, I include forms of existence created by other life forms, so I am using a broad brush.
Of course one then has to also therefor accept the possibility of life forms based not on chemistry but on self organization under aspects of exotic physics and mathematics.
Kind regards walker
Lol I find UFO Hunters interesting but I don't take it seriously, same with Ancient Aliens, regardless of things like proper methodology i personally always find it interesting to see the ideas and views people come up with, doesn't mean I believe those viewpoints but also doesn't make them any less interesting.
I enjoy a bit of sci-fi now and then as well, like Stargate SG-1, but not on The History Channel.
mrcash2009
Feb 6 2012, 15:20
Well we all have no knowledge of anything past a few miles above on personal level, but above that you have a select section that do, most of these have questionable affiliations to groups that aren't in anyone's real interest. So I would say that its all pure speculation, and going by allot of black tech we never see can also be quite a down to earth man made psyop that lasted years and through films (everything is alien this and alien that through hollywood).
So as much as its nice to think about it all or the subject as interesting it can also be looked and as manipulation, which is perfect to rain in a new belief "system" which would mirror the likes of second coming, yet this would be a orchestrated one, and no one can possibly say any of it would be for your benefit what so ever. I always say, watch the E.T groups run at it if the big wigs came on TV in a disclosure announcement, no different that yet another organised religion (and they would shout down the "other lot" in a nice face off) nicely played off one another.
So, I will sit on a big fence and take any move to "disclosure" with a pinch of salt and not run at it as full blown truth no question if that situation occurs.
@<hidden>:
http://commonsenseatheism.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/darkages.gif
Actualy this chart should be, green all the way through to now, and the black section changed to "Catholosism" not pure "Christian" (there is a destinction) thats actualy not correct at all.
But, anyway thats a bit off topic from this UFO thing, that said I still look at videos and things, but I dont auto think "aliens" "far away visitors" I now think ... "Unreleased tech" and so on along side.
gammadust
Feb 6 2012, 16:59
Strings theory, periodic table, standard model, atoms, quarks and gluons, light, matter, spheres, energies, vibrations, harmonics, music, gravity... where's that "Theory of Everything" Einstein persued so much?
Really, we conjecture "space == time", as in, Universe being 13.7 Billion years old implying simultaneously the biggest distances we are able to conceive. Constricting the magnitudes of comprehension to a maximum of 10^(~120), right there where the base the exponent applies to becomes irrelevant, there where only the precision/error of/in measurement allows furthering conjecture, there where the small is energetic and the big is spacial...
Time, much more then equating to money, equates to "everything", the individual, as a "time" user, is allowed to manage "what to be done?" with it.
We can choose to spend one's "brain time" in a dreamworld, one does this one 3rd of one's life already when sleeping, leaving the remaining two 3rds between additional mythology and concrete science. Where is the useful frontier is usually how "plausible" that time user finds some "thing" to be.
Ie. "Working" is plausible, it is concrete, it is purposeful, in normal conditions, useful as it brings prosperity (not necessarily a happy life). "Praying" (to gods) is plausible, it is concrete, it is purposeful, depending on culture, useful as it earns you peace of mind (not necessarily a place in heaven).
For a true science investigator, String Theory is bollocks, since it is "armored" to the point of disallowing any objective verification/falsification, can't be peer reviewed unless as an hipothesis. Still an hipothesis is an essential part of scientific method. A conceptual scientist can and should dedicate some time exploring the possibility, finding ways to make it useful science, allow for experimental validation. Grow knowledge in the way, serendipity is also to factor in.
String Theory may be plausible, it is NOT concrete, only as a "material abstraction", despite purposeful, conditions are still to be seen to make it useful and profitable (wider sense), who knows if it will make us happy and peaceful.
Aliens... fill in the voids. Would I spend time discussing them? Only in the sense that mythology can also be useful for one to spend some time with. I like to spend more time beyond just hipothesis.
Remember though that knowledge revolutions happen, see "Earth is Flat" of 4 centuries ago. How could one begin to comprehend today's gravity conceiving earth as flat? What does it mean when something is falling? Falling where to? Is a "straight line" a straight line? Can we actually draw a square? How useful are the imperfect squares we are able to build? How much intrumental error is tolerable? Are perfect squares plausible?
Remember also that once we were animists, pantheists, etc, to lately becoming generaly monotheists; rituals, culture and mythology had their own revolutions. Did it change anything? Did we become assured of mind peacefulness by devotion alone? Is there a sure path for earning our place in heaven? Can we be sure there is such a place? What do we become after our atoms are no more then stardust? Does our soul, or spirit, keeps an eternal presence?
The latter is more "armored" mythology, note that I am not saying it is worthless and not useful, and I do enjoy philosophy issues, excuse double redundancy.
tl;dr
Don't spend too much time with stuff with low levels of plausibility.
Time is of universal essence, use it as well as you are able to comprehend it. It will get you to "places". ;)
"There is nothing more pratical then a good theory." This is what I consider true "pragmatism".
Nicholas
Feb 6 2012, 17:28
Something related: Mars 'Super-Drought' May Make Red Planet Too Dry for Alien Life (http://www.space.com/14476-mars-super-drought-alien-life-dry.html). The thing that really bothers me is that everyone thinks that lifeforms must be like what we have on earth.
It's like when everyone thought that the earth was the center of the galaxy and everything revolved around us. The same thing goes for aliens, just because the building blocks of life on earth is carbon does not mean it's the same everywhere else. Yeah sure, it's highly possible that carbon may be the building blocks of life elsewhere, but maybe there are lifeforms made from Boron or something.
Mark1028
Feb 17 2012, 18:01
Hot news:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/02/14/eisenhower-and-the-aliens-former-us-president-had-three-secret-meetings-with-extra-terrestrials_n_1275692.html?ref=uk
-Martin-
Feb 18 2012, 13:45
Hot news:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/02/14/eisenhower-and-the-aliens-former-us-president-had-three-secret-meetings-with-extra-terrestrials_n_1275692.html?ref=uk
He looks like an extra-terrestrial on that photo himself lol.
This isn’t true obviously, just cold war crap. Why would they send the president to meet with aliens, instead of scientist who actually know a bit about anything. It seems to me that the US government consultant just wanted to make a quick buck on the story, if he even existed in the first place.
This gives me a good idea tough, I’m going to write a book that Iran is in contact with aliens and they are enriching uranium because that’s what the aliens use to keep themselves alive, and they are also working with Russia and China, and apparently they developed glowing green Borshch and flying chopsticks, which can fly like arrows and poke enemy soldiers on the battlefield. :butbut:
...glowing green Borshch...
Sounds delicious!
Abs
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