SOPA - Internet as we know it about to be gone?

[gammadust]

Hi All (in walker's good tradition)

The Anti-Internet Bill has NOT Been Postponed To 2012 … The Committee Members Who Support SOPA Sneakily Changed the Hearing Date to December 21st, Trying to Trick the American People Into Thinking It Was Over Until After the Holidays So We Won’t Fight Back! - (more (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/12/the-anti-internet-bill-has-not-been-postponed-to-2012-the-committee-members-who-support-sopa-sneakily-changed-the-hearing-date-to-december-21st-trying-to-trick-the-american-people-into-thi.html))

This in part answers colossus question in another thread (http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=2072380&postcount=4629)

But I tought SOPA by itself should justify a thread of it's own (mods feel free to judge otherwise, pls be attentative to the following reason also).

Why should anyone care about it? It does affect the internet censorship policy as a whole and internationally (not only in the US where the bill is being under appreciation).


RIGHT NOW, SENATORS ARE CONSIDERING A BILL TO CENSOR THE WEB.
SITES YOU USE EVERY DAY COULD BE BLOCKED IF IT PASSES (http://americancensorship.org/infographic.html)

[Alternative Image < 100Kb]
http://i.imgur.com/XDu2A.jpg (http://americancensorship.org/infographic.html)


More info and action here (http://americancensorship.org).

Also: This Cynical Brit episode as gone totally viral in less than a day of upload (surprisingly or not?)

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[Tonci87]

Wow, I really hope that this can be stoped. I really hate those Lobbyists

[Dysta]

There's a rumor that some countries like Iran, China or other non-NATO are making their own network protocol, or "NationNet" in slang. Only the people in this country can use it, and cannot be transmitted to the outside. Dunno if that's another kind of censorship which is not able to be "spread" so that we cannot know what are they censoring. The SOPA is just blocking American themselves, but not the outsiders.

[Hellfire257]

Did you watch that video, Dysta?

[Igneous01]

if it passes, it will mean the end of youtube and most sites that show or expose new media that isnt apart of the big 4. Practicly anything that has infringement or the possiblity of infringement will be blocked. Thats really bad :(

Im hoping it doesn't pass, information should be free and thats why the web exists today.

I mean come on Universal, Brittney Spears and Lady Gaga are not going to cut it for me, stop shoving this stuff down my throat and telling me to listen to it and like it. same with EA telling me to play Battlefield, I already played bf2, how many more times do you want me to play bf2?

[Hans Ludwig]

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http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/the-new-sopa-now-with-slightly-less-awfulness/

[Beagle]

Internet and especially YouTube and other platforms is like that for quite a while when you live in germany. Every third klick brings me this:

The video you have requested is not available for your region.


Internet censorship is already around for years, welcome to ne new age brethren and don't forget: Ignorance is strenght.

[ryguy]

H-o-l-y s-h-i-t... this is one of the few moments where I find the term "1984" to be actually useful.

[batto]

Hi. Old but funny:

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Frankly all on this video can loose job and I will not give a single f*ck.

[nettrucker]

Well they are working for some years now to censor the Internet. It's the only thing the USA lobbyists are not controlling for the time being. But they are working to change that and if this bill will pass we will see more and more restrictions and more control on news.
The only source they couldn't control until now was the Internet and they are going to change that. The NWO is accelerating speed to expand their control on everything.:mad:

[Beagle]

Well they are working for some years now to censor the Internet. It's the only thing the USA lobbyists are not controlling for the time being. But they are working to change that and if this bill will pass we will see more and more restrictions and more control on news.
The only source they couldn't control until now was the Internet and they are going to change that. The NWO is accelerating speed to expand their control on everything.:mad:As I was trying to pouijt out..its not only in the USA...the EU is already censoring...abnd germany is even ahead of the rest of EU. Internet blocking for differnt reasons, even political ones on adjudication order is in discussion and it is already know that the police has infected soem computers with a trojan to spy them...including journalists...

I don't want to appear panicking but the StaSi (GDR secret service) could have only dreamed of such measures. And no, there is no craing out loud of the masses..indeed the majority does not care or even does support this measures.

[nettrucker]

I'm aware about Germany being ahead on censorship of the Internet here in Europe, I'm German myself, even I live in Italy. Why for Pete's sake everything is so f***ed up is beyond my understanding. The majority doesn't care because they most probably don't know better. A lot of people still blindly believes in what the mainstream media is feeding to them.

[Beagle]

hi nettruckerm you know, it's all to protect us and our children from bad people on the dark side of the net.

---------- Post added at 11:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 AM ----------

hi nettruckerm you know, it's all to protect us and our children from bad people on the dark side of the net. Mama (http://www.bundeskanzlerin.de/Webs/BK/DE/Homepage/home.html) and Papa (http://www.bmi.bund.de/DE/Ministerium/Minister/minister_node.html) will care for us first, and then will go on and bless the rest of Europe with the mighty purse of Deutsche Bank.
And let's not forget about the grey old man in the wheelchair (http://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/DE/BMF__Startseite/node.html?__nnn=true) who started it.

[nettrucker]

Thanks for posting the links I'll gonna have a read asap. Yeah I won't forget the grey old man since he declared once that the EU has become a reallity due to his personal engagement on that matter in question. He oughta get shot for that. LOL:D

[Beagle]

Thanks for posting the links I'll gonna have a read asap. Yeah I won't forget the grey old man since he declared once that the EU has become a reallity due to his personal engagement on that matter in question. He oughta get shot for that. LOL:DWhen I opened this post a "you are found to be involved in terrorism" warning popped up, Police will be here soon;)

[nettrucker]

I believe there are not enough prisons to contain all the people who are discending in one way or another.:)

In any case BOT (back on topic) Rockfeller wanted the Internet to be shut sown already some years ago, because they just can't control it. IMO the USA has too much influence in Europe. They demand and order and our politicians jump, because they don't have any backbone to say no, to such kind of utter nonsense proposals.

[Beagle]

We will see what the future brings. Just a year ago I talked it over with a friend and coplayer that one of the safes way to train for a assasination would be to use ArmA as a tool and VoIP for the plannign talks.

I read in the forums the US military uses something similar called the VBS ;)

[mrcash2009]

Maybe we are already in a prison on a daily basis but dont realise it yet .... hmmmm, food for thought :) Prison without bars as they say.

The plan was to always suck everyone onto a computer and then dump on it with security and tracking, perfect really.

[Beagle]

Maybe we are already in a prison on a daily basis but dont realise it yet .... hmmmm, food for thought :) Prison without bars as they say.

The plan was to always suck everyone onto a computer and then dump on it with security and tracking, perfect really.Yeah, and last tiem I was camping out our allyears "terrorcamp" (we used to call it that way since 1993) on a place called "The Canyon" we had two Super Pumas flying over us in search pattern formation at night...Guess what´, I really got a bit paranoid because I posted the "terrorcamp" date in some local scene forums.

[Tonci87]

While I don´t agree with some of his Ideas, I certainly do with this one

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Even more this:

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[freeman83]

Well it's no surprise this is happening. It's not all about Copyright. Copyright is also another tool to censor media incriminating to the US government from reaching an audience in which it will have a profound impact...the American tax payers and voters , as well as a global audience.

Youtube has enough credible evidence and investigative documentary's about 911 (amongst the crap of course) to warrant a new independent investigation. This will not be allowed to happen. For example, the work of Architects and Engineers for 911 truth.

Uploaded on Youtube are documentary's by real Journalists like John pilger and Robert Fisk whom expose Misconduct and brutality by the US military as well as the crusader and expansionist aspirations of right wing US politicians, Zionists and the Israeli government, (the same group of people that engineered the Iraq war and are trying to lay a bum rap on Iran). Censoring youtube is of high priority because of how wide an audience can be reached as opposed to obscure websites in dark corners of the internet.

Imagine if the US public knew more about the ethnic cleansing of Palestine and simultaneous birth of Israel and continued oppression and brutality toward the Palestinians. Or perhaps zionist terrorist acts like the Bombing of the King David hotel whilst dressed as Arabs, or the Lavon Affair, or the Attack on the USS Liberty in an attempt to fool the US in to attacking Egypt, or how about the Mossad operatives caught on 911 with vans full of explosives, later released back to Israel on immigration violation charges. Or the power of AIPAC a foreign agent in the US... How many Americans bar the Christian zionists, will allow their tax dollars to be given to Israel, whom cannot survive economically without it?.

We have also seen the power of the internet with the "Arab spring" protest and revolutions as well as the occupy movement. This is just to scary for our keepers, hence Sopa is the beginning of the end. It's ok we will just have to take it to the streets.

[walker]

Hi all

On the matter of censorship disguised as copyright.

Universal missused the copyright protection function of Youtube to take down an advertising Jingle to which it had no copyright, to prevent a company it is in dispute with from advertising:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2075259/Censorship-row-Universal-Music-Group-suggests-make-YouTube-video-doesnt-like.html

When Google and YouTube found out they put the video back up and told Unversal where to shove it, but Universal are busy trying to claim they can censor anything they do not like on YouTube, hardly surprising then that so many musicians film makers and artists are saying not in my name and that now this censored advertising Jingle looks set to be the Christmas No. 1!
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Kind Regards walker

[[GR]Operative]

Damn, not trying to get into a debate about electronic piracy, but I can't see how it may trouble the phonographic industry. The people that get pirated copies of products are exactly the people that would not buy the original cause they lack the money to do so.
The branding and the exagerated taxes elevates the prices to such levels that only a minority would buy originals anyway. And even this way, the profit is so high that the industry doesn't bother in changing their formula.
The independent developers emerged with the web and are opening new ways of selling, innovating.
It's not only about softwares and music/movies, it's about media, communications, everything.
I admit that less piracy 'could' resut in less taxes and lesser prices, but the way capitalism is directing the world, this may prove wrong.

[Beagle]

Not all people believe in copyright ;)

ask the chinese.

[ryguy]

Youtube has enough credible evidence and investigative documentary's about 911 to warrant a new independent investigation.


Imagine if the US public knew more about the ethnic cleansing of Palestine and simultaneous birth of Israel and continued oppression and brutality toward the Palestinians.



Mossad operatives caught on 911 with vans full of explosives


This is why the internet can't have nice things

[walker]

Hi all

Google has said:


Google: Universal lied about its private kill-switch for YouTube videos
By Cory Doctorow at 2:46 pm Saturday, Dec 17

Google claims that Universal had no basis for removing the "Mega Song" video posted in support of the MegaUpload service (which Universal is trying to drive off the Internet). Earlier this week, a court filing from Universal suggested that the company had negotiated the right to remove videos it doesn't own from YouTube as part of a private agreement with Google...
http://boingboing.net/2011/12/17/google-universal-lied-about-i.html
As Always follow the link to read the original article in full

The Attempt to censor the song has back fired to Streisand Effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect) levels with millions of people now listening to what was a minor advertising jingle but which now looks to be set to be the Christmas No.1 and stories spreading across the internet.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/megaupload-viral-music-video-youtube-274659

The two main postings of the song now total over 5 million views on YouTube in just two days.

Kind Regards walker

[RangerPL]

Hopefully this will be repealed quickly as the "cyber-sector" (for lack of a better word) of the US economy implodes following the implementation of SOPA and PROTECT-IP.

[walker]

Hi all

New music labels are taking the opportunity that disruptive technology brings to use sites like Megaupload for distribution.
http://www.mi2n.com/press.php3?press_nb=149418

I think competition is the true reason the old fashioned music labels are bringing in these protectionist measures. They have lost control of the music market with new more vibrant music labels snapping up all the new artists and many headline acts not even bothering to sign to a label those old fashioned music labels and their overpaid exec leeches are going out of business. Even signed acts are not bothering to renew contracts.

Signing to these old fashioned labels seems like the kiss of death to your popularity.

With the mainstream media now tracking the story:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/dec/13/megaupload-universal-youtube-video?

And a second illegal use of the copyright take down this time on Vimeo triggering another court case and celebrities flocking to support Megaupload:
http://www.itproportal.com/2011/12/12/celebs-flock-endorse-megaupload/

Universal's actions seem to be an example to everyone on how not to conduct a marketing strategy. If their staff are this awful at their jobs are they really the label to sign to?

Kind regards walker

[freeman83]

@<hidden>

Hi, would you agree that the bill is intended for more than just protecting intellectual property? I think this bill is likely to be engineered in such away that it can be interpreted in any way that benefits the establishment to censor dissent or any other undesirable site or source.

[walker]

Hi freeman83

Like most trade laws it is created to protect the entrenched businesses from competition essentialy it is a law written at the behest of the execs of the existing labels union, in order to protect them from market forces. To whit the disruptive effect of modern technology on business models based on a music recording industry that is founded on grooves cut into wax cylinders and dots written on paper.

Do a search on entrenched business although if you have studied economics and or business and marketing you will already know this.

The new technology is allowing the product to escape. The old fashioned business model can't keep up so they make laws to prevent the product from escaping. It is not working most artists nowadays distribute their own product or use the newer more savey labels that understand the internet and the modern music industry.

Like all protectionist legislation at the end of a particular business models life cycle it is doomed to failure.

By the way read Ray Kurzweil's "The singularity is near" and you will start to understand the business and economic forces at play and how this affects all entrenched business models, not just the music and other media. Even tech savey Apple are about to experience it.

Kind regards walker

[freeman83]

Yep, i hear what your saying walker, products are escaping left right and centre. It is clearly a problem and their is some justification for the bill.

But to clarify my question to you (somebody whom clearly has an understanding of this subject).. is it not conceivable that copyright is being used as an excuse for censorship?. Will Whistle blowers and dissidents still be safe? or is this a new way to reach them, being created under the guise of protecting intellectual property.

Material unfavourable to the government on upload and streaming sites certainly won't be safe. Lets see how quickly it will be clamp down on. After all, this comes on the heels of the emergence of wiki leaks. It was fairly predictable. Anyway, time will tell as to how ambiguous the law will be and if it will be twisted and abused for the purpose of censorship.

[walker]

Hi Freeman83

You misunderstand, the product goes up and down in the lifts, stands in recording studios and sings and plays instruments.

It is the artists that are escaping.

Kind regards walker

[freeman83]

Misunderstood what?, Sopa is not specifically for the benefit of the music industry, but protection for more than one type of "product" is it not?. My concern is how far it will reach, and if it will be misused for censorship.

[Tonci87]

Misunderstood what?, Sopa is not specifically for the benefit of the music industry, but protection for more than one type of "product" is it not?. My concern is how far it will reach, and if it will be misused for censorship.

Everything that gives power to people is going to be misused.

SOPA is an invention of the entertainment Industry, or to be more precise, the very big companys in the entertainment industry.
Their goal isn´t only to prevent Piracy (You don´t have to use such strong measures to fight that) but to tighten their control of the market. The Music Industry for example has one big problem. The artists are running away. Small labels have become very succesfull at finding true talents and giving them good contracts. With SOPA the big companys can push those little labels out of business.

[Igneous01]

the supposed procedure for filing a complaint or claim apparently only takes a few hours until a website is pulled down, and the only basis that is required for this is 'suspected of infringement'

thats the biggest problem with this bill.

[mrcash2009]

the supposed procedure for filing a complaint or claim apparently only takes a few hours until a website is pulled down, and the only basis that is required for this is 'suspected of infringement'

thats the biggest problem with this bill.

Thats the issue right there, exactly what most of this is about. How flimsy and open ended the "deemed" part actually is written out.

Just all trojan horse ways to jump on issues and then inforce what everybody doesnt want cloaked under that issue to use as a front end, its been this same rinse and repeat style for 10 years now in so many ways.

[ST_Dux]

Intellectual property is a racket; it is the coercive transformation of an unlimited resource into a scarce one in order to profit the "owners" of some legal fiction. It does not promote creativity but rather hinders it, and this bill, if passed, would be a terrible blow to creative spirits everywhere.

[walker]

Hi all

In reply to freeman83 as I said read Ray Kurzweil's "The singularity is near" and you will start to understand the business and economic forces at play. It is a tough read lots of math and charts for the analysis but trust me it is well worth it.The basics is that we are in a period of exponential expansion and what the effects on business, economics and society will be as a result.

Exponential expansion leads to disruptive technologies these in turn allow new business models usualy employed by new market entrants. If you are an existing entrenched player in the market then you will use the economic and political power that your company has accrued over the last 100 or so years, the lifespan of most companies, to protect your position in the market. Kurzweil's research points out that the lifespan of businesses may be shortening along with product life cycle.

The SOPA legislation as with current copyright laws can be misused to censor things, this ditty being censored is an example but it is not being censored for political reason. It is being censored for business reasons; in order to prevent a competitor from gaining a foothold in the market and artists from regaining control of the distribution of their art.

If distributing art becomes easy then the market is flooded with new distribution channels, the current market leaders loose their cartel and their money.

Digital media and distribution makes the old music labels and film production and distribution industry irrelevant including the broadcast media like television. Hence why Murdoch's News Corp support this legislation:

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It creates an open market Murdoch cannot afford to compete in an open market. Just like all the other old players in the media market but as I say it is not just the media market it is all the other markets too. The easiest way to spot is by the seeing a market player go defensive. As soon as the legal department of a business begins to grow you know it is in decline, hence why I noted Apple.

Kind regards walker

[Tonci87]

So what did they decide?

[mrcash2009]

in order to profit the "owners" of some legal fiction. It does not promote creativity but rather hinders it, and this bill, if passed, would be a terrible blow to creative spirits everywhere.

Very important, I suggest everyone to youtube up and google this, biggest dupe of the world.

[ST_Dux]

So what did they decide?
They decided to wait until after the holidays to decide anything.

[freeman83]

@<hidden>

Thanks for the info, will keep the book in mind. I've got to much to read at the moment so it will have to wait for a rainy day. Also i need to find the motivation to read a book about business or economics from cover to cover. Like Ken Watanabe i also prefer "a good conversation" to a book that will inevitably be to hard to digest for the un initiated.
I like you choice of news media btw ;)

[ReconTeam]

Eh, our country is going to hell anyway, I just don't care anymore. I used to, but I just can't now.

[mrcash2009]

Eh, our country is going to hell anyway, I just don't care anymore. I used to, but I just can't now. Things only go to hell by design, by not caring any more in large numbers you help to fast track that transition made on your behalf, plus its not about any one country the net is everyone anywhere plus more besides, while you country gets to hell you and everyone you are close to will still be in it standing their while you gave up.

Heres a number of articles for the sake of the thread:

Sopa breaks the internet (video):
http://vimeo.com/31100268

Sopa is the end of us says bloggers:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1211/70878.html

We must stop SOPA:
http://www.deathrattlesports.com/archives/542/why-we-must-stop-sopa/

Sopa battle hots up as US Congress debates piracy bill:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/dec/15/sopa-bill-congress-online-piracy

SOPA opponents may go nuclear and other 2012 predictions:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-57349540-281/sopa-opponents-may-go-nuclear-and-other-2012-predictions/?tag=mncol;topStories

[Daniel]

German hackers to save the internet.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16367042

[Tonci87]

This is such an stupid idea. It would cost them millions to even build and deliver one satelite but they need much more to cover even europe...

[Daniel]

I know, I admire their enthusiasm though. Here's to space hacker astronauts on the moon in the next 23 years!

[OnlyRazor]

Here's to space hacker astronauts on the moon in the next 23 years!

BIS! Arma 3! Now! :yay:

Ontopic, I'm fairly certain that even if the bill passes, Congress is going to crash and burn under the weight of the angry masses.

[Tonci87]

BIS! Arma 3! Now! :yay:

Ontopic, I'm fairly certain that even if the bill passes, Congress is going to crash and burn under the weight of the angry masses.

Unlikely people will rather stay at home and blog about this stupid people in congress :(

[walker]

Hi all

While this will affect the USA I think there is little chance that any other nation will be stupid enough to hobble their economy in this way. All that will happen is the internet industries will decamp on mass and move to more enlightened nations where both freedom and the free market still exist. Funny how the US Republican party turns out to be the most communist though.

Kind Regards walker

[NodUnit]

Unlikely people will rather stay at home and blog about this stupid people in congress :(

Saddly true, at this point the only time you would see violent action from the mass would be if they made a bill that essentially shut down mcdonalds.

[Tonci87]

Saddly true, at this point the only time you would see violent action from the mass would be if they made a bill that essentially shut down mcdonalds.

Now THAT would most certainly get them into trouble. :rolleyes:

[NodUnit]

You might be surprised at what happens when you take the common fast food chain away for any reason be it technical, roadwork or other..

[ST_Dux]

The Stop Online Piracy Act is so polarizing in the tech world that huge web companies like Amazon, eBay, Facebook, and Google are considering going dark in order to spread awareness, reports ExtremeTech.

Imagine going to Google.com to do a search only to find some explanatory text on what SOPA is and how to call Congress to voice your opinion on it.

There's no plan on when the blackout would occur, but January 23 looks like the most likely date given that Congress is scheduled to debate SOPA on January 24.

ExtremeTech shares the full list of companies that may participate in the blackout. Again, consider what the Internet would be like without access to any of these companies' services:
AOL
eBay
Etsy
Facebook
Foursquare
Google
IAC
LinkedIn
Mozilla
OpenDNS
PayPal
Twitter
Wikimedia Foundation
Yahoo!
Zynga

Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/sopa-protest-2012-1

I, for one, am very happy to hear that these major players are considering such a move, and I fully support it. SOPA is evil and needs to die.

[Tonci87]

Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/sopa-protest-2012-1

I, for one, am very happy to hear that these major players are considering such a move, and I fully support it. SOPA is evil and needs to die.


^This

I consider taking away Facebook google and twitter away from people (even if its only for one day) would get people seriously pissed. I guess it will be time for torches and pitchforks

[Daniel]

What a good idea! I think i'd secretly enjoy a day off facebook though...

[mrcash2009]

Again, consider what the Internet would be like without access to any of these companies' servicesHmmm 60 percent more productive? :)

Quite funny that it would take some social network sites blackout to get people to notice, only becuase they would cry for having it back which has a back end linked in to all this online privacy law tripe anyway.

[OnlyRazor]

Hmmm 60 percent more productive? :)

Quite funny that it would take some social network sites blackout to get people to notice, only becuase they would cry for having it back which has a back end linked in to all this online privacy law tripe anyway.

Actually, productivity would only increase in the real world, and only after the rioting would have stopped.

[RangerPL]

more enlightened nations where both freedom and the free market still exist. Funny how the US Republican party turns out to be the most communist though.Funny how you talk about free markets but promote tax increases and austerity measures.

Kind Regards ranger

[USSRsniper]

Don't US politicians have other stuff to worry about, instead of internet and online piracy?

[JonPL]

nvm, pls delete

[Cozza]

Don't US politicians have other stuff to worry about, instead of internet and online piracy?

yes.
I think its about time a hamburger became's a salad. It has vegetables on it!!!! :p

[Dead3yez]

Don't US politicians have other stuff to worry about, instead of internet and online piracy?

Apparently the only thing they worry about is their next payslip. ;)

[OnlyRazor]

At this rate people will be pledging to One Nation Under Copyright very soon.

[wipman]

Hi, if the "information is power" then who controls the information would have the power and the lobbys are about that; look at us, at europe... we're all moving to the right and even on the left partys they're putting lobbysts on decisive places so they ensure to take what they want from the cake no matter what.
We, the citizens, gonna have to do more to protect our countrys and degree of freedom if we don't want to live as slaves; and if this were a declared war... we'll be actualy loosing it. Let's C ya

[solidsnake2384]

Our Founding Fathers would be rolling around in the graves if they saw America now.

[Tonci87]

Our Founding Fathers would be rolling around in the graves if they saw America now.

You can bet on that

[OnlyRazor]

Our Founding Fathers would be rolling around in the graves if they saw America now.

Well, that's obvious. They were Freemasons so they'd disagree with the Illuminati being in power.

[Dosenmais]

They were Freemasons so they'd disagree with the Illuminati being in power.

Washington wrote many letters about how fu**ed up the Freemasonry is and he wasn't in a lodge for 20 years when they declared independence.

These People didn't invented Freedome, but they did their best to define it.

[OnlyRazor]

Washington wrote many letters about how fu**ed up the Freemasonry is and he wasn't in a lodge for 20 years when they declared independence.

These People didn't invented Freedome, but they did their best to define it.

Oh, I know for a fact... I read... DAN BROWN BOOKS :rolleyes:
Maybe I should lay off the sarcasm for a while.

[Dosenmais]

Oh, I know for a fact... I read... DAN BROWN BOOKS :rolleyes:
Maybe I should lay off the sarcasm for a while.
Well...Brown is a mix between Freemason PR and Entertainment.
Dan Brown copied "Da Vinci code" from the Book "Holy Blood Holy Grail" and one of the authors, Michael Baigent, later worked as an Editor for "Freemasonry Today".

Screw your lousy sarcasm lad, grow up.

[mrcash2009]

Dont want to sound like a self appointed moderator or anything but due to past might be best to not go that route too much, esp when its not about the thread, otherwise rustly lock time. :)

[OnlyRazor]

Indeed. I still believe that personal profit is not an acceptable political motivation. Even the commies knew that. Besides, the minute SOPA afflicts people's beloved Twitter and Facebook, they'll rip the Congress apart.

[Tonci87]

Well...Brown is a mix between Freemason PR and Entertainment.
Dan Brown copied "Da Vinci code" from the Book "Holy Blood Holy Grail" and one of the authors, Michael Baigent, later worked as an Editor for "Freemasonry Today".

Screw your lousy sarcasm lad, grow up.

Browns last book was awfull. Nothing than endless PR BS for the Freemasonry.

[Daniel]

I read Dan Brown's Digital Fortress and decided i'd never read another of his books. That was a long time ago though.

EDIT: Crap, thought I was in the book thread. Disregard. :p

[sagitarius_2k]

White House Won’t Back Internet Censorship


The Obama administration won’t back legislation to combat online piracy if it encourages censorship, undermines cybersecurity or disrupts the structure of the Internet, three White House technology officials said.

Their statement, posted yesterday on the White House website, was a response to online petitions on legislative proposals to combat online piracy. The movie and music industries support such measures as a means of cracking down on theft.

“While we believe that online piracy by foreign websites is a serious problem that requires a serious legislative response, we will not support legislation that reduces freedom of expression, increases cybersecurity risk or undermines the dynamic, innovative global Internet,” Aneesh Chopra, Victoria Espinel and Howard Schmidt wrote in a blog post.

The statement marks the administration’s most significant foray into a fight between content creators and Internet companies that has been playing out in Congress. The Senate is scheduled to hold a procedural vote Jan. 24 on starting debate on an anti-piracy bill.

Chopra is the U.S. chief technology officer, Espinel is the coordinator for intellectual property enforcement in the Office of Management and Budget, and Schmidt is the White House cybersecurity coordinator.

The officials called on Congress to pass legislation this year to combat online piracy. They also wrote that the White House would soon be hosting a conference call with supporters of the petitions as well as an online event.
House Chairman’s Statement

U.S. Representative Lamar Smith, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, said his Stop Online Piracy Act meets the administration’s tests. Smith announced on Jan. 13 that he would remove a provision that would require Internet service providers, when ordered by a court, to block access to non-U.S. websites offering pirated content or counterfeit goods. The bill’s opponents say this could hurt the domain-name system.

In a statement yesterday, Smith said that censorship doesn’t include enforcing laws against “foreign thieves” who steal content.

“Congress cannot stand by and do nothing while some of America’s most profitable and productive industries are under attack,” said Smith, a Texas Republican.
Internet Companies Opposed

Google Inc. (GOOG), Facebook Inc. and other Internet companies oppose Smith’s bill and companion legislation in the Senate. They say it will promote online censorship and threaten the growth of the U.S. technology industry.

The Motion Picture Association of America, which supports anti-piracy efforts, applauded the White House call for legislation.

“For too long in this debate, those that seek to preserve and profit from the status quo have moved to obstruct reasonable legislation,” said Michael O’Leary, the group’s senior executive vice president for global policy and external affairs.

O’Leary said in the statement that “meaningful” legislation “must include measured and reasonable remedies that include ad brokers, payment processors and search engines.” Members of the Washington-based MPAA include the studio arms of The Walt Disney Co. and Time Warner Inc.
Hearing Postponed

Representative Darrell Issa said yesterday that he would postpone a hearing on the bill that had been scheduled for Jan. 18. Even with the changes made by Smith, Issa said, the bill is still “fundamentally flawed.”

Issa, a California Republican who is chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, said he has assurances from House leaders that the bill won’t go to the floor without a consensus. He has proposed an alternative approach.

“The voice of the Internet community has been heard,” Issa said in a statement. “Much more education for members of Congress about the workings of the Internet is essential if anti-piracy legislation is to be workable and achieve broad appeal.”

Smith’s bill is H.R. 3261. The Senate bill is S. 968.

_http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-14/white-house-won-t-support-internet-censorship-in-online-anti-piracy-bills.html

So, is that mean this Law will not pass??

[OnlyRazor]

Apparently, the DNS provision got pulled from SOPA to increase the chances of the bill passing through congress. Read here (http://www.tomsguide.com/us/SOPA-Protect-IP-Lamar-Smith-DNS-Blocking-Piracy,news-13899.html).

[walker]

Hi all

Apparently Fox boss Murdoch is TwitteRanting, TwitteRaving and TwitteRaging that President Obama is not supporting the SOPA bill:
http://gizmodo.com/5876189/murdoch-slams-obama-for-supporting-silicon-valley-piracy-leaders

Really that senile old fool is almost as decrepit as his failing business.

ROFL

Kind Regards walker

[Tonci87]

Murdoch is stupid.

[ReconTeam]

Hi all
Really that senile old fool is almost as decrepit as his failing business.


He's old and crazy but his businesses aren't failing. I much prefer Fox to CNN or MSNBC.

[batto]

He's old and crazy but his businesses aren't failing. I much prefer Fox to CNN or MSNBC.

http://i.qkme.me/35c7ke.jpg


http://gizmodo.com/5876189/murdoch-slams-obama-for-supporting-silicon-valley-piracy-leaders

Every comment I've read so far is quite positive :D.

[ProfTournesol]

Looks like Marek (http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?p=2091218#post2091218) is concerned too :)

[colossus]

Kudos to BI for making a statement :)
Maybe I'll actually get some work done tomorrow, seeing that most of the internet is shutting down for a day :p

[Tonci87]

Great Move BIS!

[walker]

Hi all

Kudos to BIS and Marek, they are a new media organisation of the kind that SOPA is designed to cripple.

As I pointed out earlier in the thread; the reason Old Fashioned media organisations Like Murdoch's dying Fox business, and the likes of Universal and the other media Dinosaurs, want this law; is simply to prevent market entrants with a better understanding of the Internet from disrupting and making redundant the Dinosaurs out of date business models.

Universal fear the Musicians realising they do not any longer need to sign to a Label that takes 95% of all they earn. And like any Entrenched Market Player they will use every underhand trick they can to prevent an open Market and competition:


...On the matter of censorship disguised as copyright.

Universal missused the copyright protection function of Youtube to take down an advertising Jingle to which it had no copyright, to prevent a company it is in dispute with from advertising:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2075259/Censorship-row-Universal-Music-Group-suggests-make-YouTube-video-doesnt-like.html...


Fox/Sky and all the other Film and television broadcasters fear loosing out to the likes of Netflix, and the online on demand Internet TV of Google Apple and the host of On Demand TV stations, where the market is open and cut throat and often made and marketed by the the Directors, Editors, Special Effects staff and Actors. Often for a far better cut than they got from the likes of Fox and the other old fashioned Networks who drop any program that becomes too popular as it means that the Artists, directors and actual makers of the product can demand a better share. Joss Whedon had his projects cut as soon as they became too big for Networks to demand their unfair share.

Films were something that they could prevent Actors and Directors from making them selves, and cutting out the producer company, by ensuring the budgets are in the Millions. Then some one comes along and makes a Blockbuster special effects movie for the less than a Million.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1470827/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsters_(2010_film)#Production

All this disruptive technology is what they want to prevent. A Free Market is the thing that all Entrenched Market Players fear most.

The SOPA law is not about protecting artists hence why so many of them oppose it. It is about preventing the artists, especialy New Artists, gaining access to the market other than through the owned and run turnstiles of the Old Media Dinosaurs that allow them like any gangster to demand the biggest share.

For once the Majority of Artists realise they do not need to sign their soul to these companies those companies are extinct.

A Free and Open market is why the Old Media Dinosaurs Fear the Internet so much.

Kind Regards walker

[ST_Dux]

I'm always stunned when this happens, but +1 to everything Walker just said.

[PurePassion]

Absolutely supporting BIS's initiative on this matter!

It would really be more than a shame if this bill passes through

[Nicholas]

Just out of curiosity, but I know for 100% that this law would affect Americans. But how much does it affect other countries? I noticed how many people from other countries are against SOPA. The website about SOPA says that only Americans would be blocked, no one else. Considering the fact that pretty much everybody hates America (:(), wouldn't most fully support SOPA? Thanks.

[Daniel]

For starters, if the bill is passed, it would set a precedent that other countries might choose to follow. "The US did it, why can't we?". Full support for BIS and all the other sites involved.

[Tonci87]

Well everything walker said +1
@<hidden> Other contrys will follow if the US does that.

[b101_uk]

Just out of curiosity, but I know for 100% that this law would affect Americans. But how much does it affect other countries?

Not a lot, all that would happen is we could lose the likes of e.g. youtube for a bit until they move totally out of the USA too elsewhere like the UK or EU, it’s no bad thing to move stuff out of the USA anyway. ;)

I hope the bill's goes through.

Still if we had this sort of internet kafuffle over the past 11 years, we may have avoided some pointless medalling in country’s affairs and pointless unjust war's, instead the money-makers like youtube, facebook, google etc etc etc can whip up a storm from the masses when their revenue is at stake.

[Nicholas]

I don't think websites would have to be moved out of the US, would they? Wouldn't they just use DNS filtering?

[walker]

Hi all

In reply to Dice; the US is already applying existing Laws on copyright against people in other countries daring to link to sites that contain whatever they classify as Piracy.


Sheffield student faces extradition over 'piracy'

A judge rules Richard O'Dwyer can be extradited to the US where he is alleged to have breached copyright law.
By Tom Brewster, 16 Jan 2012 at 09:49

A student accused of breaching piracy laws is facing extradition to the US, where he could get up to five years in jail...
http://www.itpro.co.uk/638311/sheffield-student-faces-extradition-over-piracy
As always follow the link to the original article in full

The architects of SOPA want to make it against the law to trade with a company that is accused of being involved in breaking it, eg. if you link to a site that links to something as this kid did then that is enough for your company to get blacklisted and your assets seized or as in this case for you to be extradited straight to a high security prison and waiting for months or even years in prison for a trial that could just as easily find you not guilty.

Kind Regards walker

[DM]

As I pointed out earlier in the thread; the reason Old Fashioned media organisations Like Murdoch's dying Fox business, and the likes of Universal and the other media Dinosaurs, want this law; is simply to prevent market entrants with a better understanding of the Internet from disrupting and making redundant the Dinosaurs out of date business models...

Universal fear the Musicians realising they do not any longer need to sign to a Label that takes 95% of all they earn. And like any Entrenched Market Player they will use every underhand trick they can to prevent an open Market and competition...
I dont often agree with walker, but he's 100% spot on here. SOPA and PIPA are the last gasps of a dying production industry, who are being ousted by advances in technology.


I don't think websites would have to be moved out of the US, would they? Wouldn't they just use DNS filtering?
Under earlier versions of SOPA, anyone within the US convicted of breaching IP rights (and therefore getting their website blocked) would be facing up to 5 years in prison and up to $150,000 fine per view of the copyrighted material.

SOPA would pretty much be the death of American web providers (hosting services, file hosts, etc etc). Hell, under SOPA youtube, facebook and the like are all illegal...

[Nicholas]

Hi all

In reply to Dice; the US is already applying existing Laws on copyright against people in other countries daring to link to sites that contain whatever they classify as Piracy.


http://www.itpro.co.uk/638311/sheffield-student-faces-extradition-over-piracy
As always follow the link to the original article in full

The architects of SOPA want to make it against the law to trade with a company that is accused of being involved in breaking it, eg if you link to a site that links to something as this kid did then that is enough for your company to get blacklisted and your assets seized or as in this case be extradited straight to a high security prison in waiting for months or even years for a trial that could just as easily find you not guilty.

Kind Regards walker

Ok, thanks for the information. I am 100% against SOPA, but just wasn't sure how it would effect other countries.

[batto]

For starters, if the bill is passed, it would set a precedent that other countries might choose to follow. "The US did it, why can't we?". Full support for BIS and all the other sites involved.

Not to mention that some countries are already forced to do it:

http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/01/17/0245204/copyright-lobby-wants-canada-out-of-tpp-until-stronger-copyright-laws-passed
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/01/05/1539230/us-threatens-spain-for-not-implementing-sopa-like-law
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/01/12/0141219/music-industry-sues-irish-government-for-piracy
http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=2011032316585825

Kudos to BIS!

[OnlyRazor]

Stay classy, developed world. Stay classy.

[MattXR]

This is what the chinese do and wasn't the USA against that

[Minimalaco]

Fuck SOPA !

[IceBreakr]

I'm shutting down my website for 24 hours.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:SOPA_initiative/Take_action&mobileaction=view_normal_site#Black_out_your_own_website_on_January_18

[Hans Ludwig]

OMFMYh0aVBA

[Nicholas]

[YOUTUBE]OMFMYh0aVBA[YOUTUBE]

LOL

"Destroying the internet, not a big deal. She didn't eat peanut butter, massive. Embarrassing."

It is pretty pathetic some of the things that news outlets pass off as "News".

[walker]

Hi all

The Story you get from the video Hans Ludwig posted is absolute and irrefutable proof that the existing Journalists for all the traditional big US news networks Censor the news on behalf of their masters, they do not even have to be told to do it. There is no need to censor the news, the Journalists minds are already pre censored.

Kind Regards walker

[Codarl]

makes you wander why youtube /facebook aren't going black.

oh wait - they're big companies too now? too much revenue loss? dáááh... :j:

[Nicholas]

Umm...try www.google.com

Google is against SOPA. Google owns YouTube. SOPA would have a huge effect on YouTube and Facebook. Just because they aren't "blacking out" their website does not mean they are not against it.

[NodUnit]

Qua? http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/18/10177219-wikipedia-goes-dark-on-piracy-bill-protest-day Can't say about facebook...don't use it.

Also guys don't focus entirerly on SOPA, don't forget protect IP is still out there, whereupon fansites such as say armaholic could be taken down because they feature content from a company's product....which I hope Bohemia would not do but there's an example for you, any fan sites you like going to or hell even youtube would be threatened by this. Enjoy Lets plays, game tournaments, walkthroughs etc? Protect IP would still threaten that.

In another manner this could also be potentially disasterous for addon makers, images of weapons and vehicles, blueprints and things of that nature could fall under said act and companies in response could have the authority to remove them.

Also while youtube does not appear to be blacking out, users can apparently black out their pages if they so desire. http://www.youtube.com/user/TotalHalibut?blend=1&ob=video-mustangbase

[Mondkalb]

The US should invade the US and bring liberty and freedom of speech.

[NodUnit]

But then the US would be labelled a terrorist for invading the US and so would begin the War on the US...I wonder how many NATO countries would be willing to help the US deal with the US..

[colossus]

The US should invade the US and bring liberty and freedom of speech.
Well there you go, problem solved. :biggrin_o: :tongue:
Still early morning in the US, but it shouldn't be too long before a couple of other sites shuts down. Reddit is going dark in just under three hours. Not sure about Facebook though, anyone got a clue? *Answered earlier, we'll just have to wait and see then.

[DMarkwick]

The US should invade the US and bring liberty and freedom of speech.

Imagine the blue on blue.

[DonMigel]

Call me a conspiracist.

Really its my only form of indentity, but isnt SOPA like a distraction thing? I mean its slow, right in our face and easy to get rid off.

Its not like SOPA is a bunch of people, its a weapon represented by these bunch of people. And SOPA is so clear and over the top and has called up such a large number of combatants against it that it seems like its just a scheme.

It could just be considered a first strike to see who jumps out of what hole and then have a bomber bomb those holes, a diversion for another attack or easing people as a opening to a less horrid bill.

Everything is in place we have the internet people going RAHRAHRAH. So the crowd is definantly distracted. We think we have a clear enemy but really are just fighting symptons of a greater problem. And the moment this SOPA is gone and everyone is celebrating what stopping these guys to sneak past some bills with nasty fine print?

[Mosh]

The US should invade the US and bring liberty and freedom of speech.

+1

Someone needs to slap these fucktards around...

[NodUnit]

a diversion for another attack or easing people as a opening to a less horrid bill.

You mean like protect IP, which while not as severe could essentially do the same thing?

[walker]

Hi all

For the English Speaking World http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page is now Dark a glimpse of what the Internet will be like if Murdoch and his ilk have their way.

Stop SOPA an PIPA now or else in short while the internet will be a dark and forbidding ghost town just like this site will be today.

Kind Regards walker

[Smurf]

Hi all

For the English Speaking World http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page is now Dark a glimpse of what the Internet will be like if Murdoch and his ilk have their way.

Stop SOPA an PIPA now or else in short while the internet will be a dark and forbidding ghost town just like this site will be today.

Kind Regards walker

Much worse than that, RPS is off: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/ :mad:

[[APS]Gnat]

+1 Protest

2012 could be the end of the world as we know it ............

[NodUnit]

Chances are many sites will be blacked out today, at least I hope so.

[Tonci87]

I hope so too. How many hours until BIS is going to blackout?

[Acelondoner]

I hope so too. How many hours until BIS is going to blackout?

Ten minutes.

[IceBreakr]

Kudos to BIS for joining the war ;) out site will be down for couple hours more.

[NodUnit]

Thank you Bohemia and everyone for participating in the protest, from what I hear the news is looking good!

[Nicholas]

The White House is against it, and from what I hear, President Obama would veto it if required. But I'm not 100% sure if I read it correctly.

[Fox '09]

Thank you BIS.

Looks like my senator decided to knock it off (rubio).

[Flash Thunder]

Did the quicky email on Wikipedia's page.

This shit passes there's going to be mayhem especially when the people who don't pay attention finally find out what its going to mean to them personally.

[froggyluv]

Wrote my Senators today - nobody puts baby BI in a corner!

Oh and for the record, I don't ever want to see my name aligned with 4Chan and BoingBoing again :mad:

[NodUnit]

The White House is against it, and from what I hear, President Obama would veto it if required. But I'm not 100% sure if I read it correctly.

Funny how they'd be against and veto that but pass the national defense authorization act..Oh well it would be nice if it were true, some conscience is better than no conscience at least the bastards won't take away the worlds freedoms.

[Muahaha]

US is heading towards China's way of controlling the masses ? Hope that this bill is going FUBAR.

[[GLT] Legislator]

In germany we stabbed the politicians with a wooden rod into the heart to cancel the censorship laws. We were successful so far. You should try the same in america.

[RangerPL]

Legislator;2091854']In germany we stabbed the politicians with a wooden rod into the heart to cancel the censorship laws. We were successful so far. You should try the same in america.Two of my youtube videos are banned in Germany. I don't think it has worked :mad:

[Flash Thunder]

Oh and for the record, I don't ever want to see my name aligned with 4Chan and BoingBoing again!

I lol'd hard at that but agree.

Backers include 4chan, encyclopedia dramatica etc etc. :p

[DM]

Oh American Politicians, you so CRAZY (http://s1-02.twitpicproxy.com/photos/large/498585131.jpg)

[walker]

Wrote my Senators today - nobody puts baby BI in a corner!

Oh and for the record, I don't ever want to see my name aligned with 4Chan and BoingBoing again :mad:

Hi all

We joined with Stalin to beat the Nazis.

I had to sit on the same side of the fence as Ron Paul; needs must.

This is the kind of scam that the bills SOPA and PIPA would facilitate except if those bills were passed the people would not just be threatened with a letter, peoples businesses would be destroyed and workers made jobless:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16616803

The major problem with such laws is that they abandon the principle of innocent until proven guilty. The punishment is applied without the case being heard.

Kind regards walker

[mrcash2009]

Call me a conspiracist.

Really its my only form of indentity, but isnt SOPA like a distraction thing? I mean its slow, right in our face and easy to get rid off.

Its not like SOPA is a bunch of people, its a weapon represented by these bunch of people. And SOPA is so clear and over the top and has called up such a large number of combatants against it that it seems like its just a scheme.

It could just be considered a first strike to see who jumps out of what hole and then have a bomber bomb those holes, a diversion for another attack or easing people as a opening to a less horrid bill.

Everything is in place we have the internet people going RAHRAHRAH. So the crowd is definantly distracted. We think we have a clear enemy but really are just fighting symptons of a greater problem. And the moment this SOPA is gone and everyone is celebrating what stopping these guys to sneak past some bills with nasty fine print?

Damn right, cause an issue that's over the top, then scale back bit by bit with "alternate solutions" that seem to work "better for all" and then introduce another under a different name (already written) that creeps in as the same end results later. Nothing out of the ordinary at all.

BTW all that needs to happen is one big security hack, one big scam, one big "thing" to highlight to re-justify it all and its all aboard the merry-go-round.

The idea is, you have a page for your work, employment & purchasing etc, its funny enough just like facebook (cough) you do everything through this and can only visit sites that are "ok with the system" ... this is the future its was called internet 2 and the internet of all things. So long as you do everything through a track-able system and your completely "transparent" about it, you will "fit in".

Get the message folks, this is just a sniff of the changes to it. Keep on the look out for other suggestions about making the net more secure, they all tell a story.

[Tonci87]

Two of my youtube videos are banned in Germany. I don't think it has worked :mad:

Was about to write almost the same.

[JonPL]

Wait, what?

[MadDogX]

Two of my youtube videos are banned in Germany. I don't think it has worked :mad:
That's not really censorship per se, just Google and GEMA being unable to reach an agreement on licensing fees. Mainly because the GEMAs demands are completely ridiculous - I believe they want 12 cents per stream (view) of any GEMA licensed title on YouTube, which Google is of course unwilling to pay.

[GRS]

I've been hearing good things.

[Tonci87]

That's not really censorship per se, just Google and GEMA being unable to reach an agreement on licensing fees. Mainly because the GEMAs demands are completely ridiculous - I believe they want 12 cents per stream (view) of any GEMA licensed title on YouTube, which Google is of course unwilling to pay.

Well thats german bureaucrazy at work. By the way GEMA is a organization funded by the music industry. They basically charge everyone who dares to play some music in public. Be it a Restaurant owner who plays some nice background music or even a group of small kindergarden children that sings at someones door (Yeah its THAT ridicullous). Well and now they want to charge youtube. Of course this is all to get people to buy CDs instead of listening to the tracks on youtube. Lobyism in Germany makes such behaviour possible.

[ST_Dux]

Of course this is all to get people to buy CDs instead of listening to the tracks on youtube.
How long will it take for people to finally realize that no one buys CDs anymore? Music is destined to be free for everyone; the fact that it costs literally nothing to reproduce demands it.

[batto]

Hi.

@<hidden>: We have exactly same organization in Czech Rep. Also they charge a little amount of cash on every CD, DVD, USB/HDD, print paper, ... sold. And those money goes to few top artists (those that produce music I hate).

SOPA protest: I raged when reading Fox News, MSNBC, CNN... They was like "Defenders are music/record companies, our parent company. Opposition consists of sillicon valley companies". No people, just companis. FPDR

[[GR]Operative]

The solution to piracy is, of course, marketing and mechandising.
I know people hate those flashy ads all over the screen (thank god we don't see popups anymore!), but it allows people to mantain and profit from their sites.
So, if some of the ads cash go to the artists, I think they may get much more income than selling CDs. It's like darwinism, were the most adapted survives: the industry must adapt to the new ways internet has opened.
The bestselling artists still sell a lot of CDs, but let's face it, the least famous ones have already adopted the internet as their main vehicle.

[[GLT] Legislator]

Two of my youtube videos are banned in Germany. I don't think it has worked :mad:

True, but Youtube isn't a german company, isn't it? If it were, we would beat the shit out of them for filtering content files.

Maybe a new party in the US would be the alternative to the established system. Since a few years a new party called "Pirate Party" is growing trying to keep the balance with the corrupt ones.

But seriously ... laws are getting worse since 9/11 in the US. If someone is noticing it NOW and not before, than I don't know what to think. 10 years of silence might lead to 100 years of suffering.

[-Martin-]

SOPA protest: I raged when reading Fox News, MSNBC, CNN... They was like "Defenders are music/record companies, our parent company. Opposition consists of sillicon valley companies". No people, just companis.

Welcome to capitalism? http://kolobok.us/smiles/icq/scratch_one-s_head.gif

Anyway, I heard that 8 US lawmakers withdrew their support for SOPA... I hope that SOPA doesn’t pass and we can keep the internet free (which in my view is a human right). I'm proud that BIS also joined in the protest :smile: It's about time we all stand up against the greedy corporations.

[Abs]

Welcome to capitalism? http://kolobok.us/smiles/icq/scratch_one-s_head.gif

Anyway, I heard that 8 US lawmakers withdrew their support for SOPA... I hope that SOPA doesn’t pass and we can keep the internet free (which in my view is a human right). I'm proud that BIS also joined in the protest :smile: It's about time we all stand up against the greedy corporations.

Much more than 8. http://projects.propublica.org/sopa/

Yesterday the number of opponents was at 31. Today it's at 108.

Each profile has a link to the social media pages of the congresspeople. I looked at a few of them, and they were getting slammed by normal people who oppose SOPA. I guess many have started listening.

Now if only they would block PIPA too...yesterday the number of opponents was at 6. Today, it's still mainly supported.

Abs

[STALKERGB]

The major problem with such laws is that they abandon the principle of innocent until proven guilty. The punishment is applied without the case being heard.

I'm already well used to be guilty until proven innocent lol, Journalists are legally required to prove they didn't do something instead of having it proved that we did (with regards to libel) so unfortunately this is nothing new for me!

[Fox '09]

Megaupload gone huh. What a shame. If understand SOPA correctly, it just makes it easier for something like this to happen.

[STALKERGB]

Megaupload gone huh. What a shame. If understand SOPA correctly, it just makes it easier for something like this to happen.

Yeah shut down by the FBI, I think SOPA would have meant to even after 1 infringing thing was found it would be the site's fault so could be blocked/taken down etc.

Also. Maybe it's just me but (and I know there was copyrighted material there) I never really saw Megaupload as a "massive piracy operation" like the FBI/Hollywood always say. Certainly sites I'd put above it in my opinion.

EDIT: One last thing, I always find it interesting the arbitrary figures that are claimed to be the lost revenue from site's piracy ($500 million for megaupload)

[Sudayev]

Megaupload...

So bad.

It's on.

[whisper]

Megaupload gone huh. What a shame. If understand SOPA correctly, it just makes it easier for something like this to happen.
Which proves that they don't need freedom-killng laws to stop piracy online. They can simply use the normal laws

[Sudayev]

quick reply from Anonymous

www.justice.gov
www.universalmusic.com

both shut down

[Fox '09]

isn't that wonderful.

[Sudayev]

another evildoer motion picture of america lies on its knees

edit: two more. the war is on
+ RIAA
+ copyright.gov

[Taro8]

The Series of Tubes Strikes Back!

EDIT: Check this out (from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaupload)):


Megaupload song controversy

On December 9, 2011, Megaupload published a music video titled: "The Mega Song", showing artists including Kanye West, Snoop Dogg, Alicia Keys and will.i.am endorsing the company. The music video was also uploaded to YouTube, but was removed following a takedown request by the record company Universal Music Group (UMG). Megaupload said that the video contained no infringing content, commenting: "we have signed agreements with every featured artist for this campaign". Megaupload requested an apology from UMG, and filed a lawsuit against the company in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California, on December 12, 2011. UMG denied that the takedown was ordered under the terms of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, and said that the takedown was "pursuant to the UMG-YouTube agreement," which gives UMG "the right to block or remove user-posted videos through YouTube's CMS (Content Management System) based on a number of contractually specified criteria." The video was subsequently returned to YouTube, with the reasons for the UMG takedown remaining unclear. YouTube stated: "Our partners do not have the right to take down videos from YT unless they own the rights to them or they are live performances controlled through exclusive agreements with their artists, which is why we reinstated it." Lawyers for will.i.am initially claimed that he had never agreed to the project, but on December 12, he denied any involvement in the takedown notice.

Just a month ago, and remember that Megupload was around since 2005, either feds are really slow or something is fishy (adjusting tin foil hat).

BTW: Oh the porn! Somebody think of all that porn!

[Sudayev]

hey I cant access universalmusic.com what a coincidence :D

[[GR]Operative]

So the Megaupload scheme is the SOPA-way of doing things: accusing the owners with the users crimes.
Do you really think the people that watches movies on the internet would go to the teathers to watch them? I think everybody know most of these people wouldn't anyway, so it's not lost profit.

[-Martin-]

Megauplaod is down? :butbut: That was the best file sharing website :sad: If this continues the future looks bleak...

EDIT: And whats going on with this SOPA, did it pass? Why are all these sites down? We're not getting much info here in the UK...

[Nicholas]

SOPA or PIPA has not passed yet. Megaupload was taken down by the government. Then Anonymous (A hacking group) took down several government websites.

[ryguy]

WTF? Under what law was it taken down from?!

[Nicholas]

This is direct from the United States Department of Justice:



Department of Justice

Office of Public Affairs

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Thursday, January 19, 2012

Justice Department Charges Leaders of Megaupload with Widespread Online Copyright Infringement

WASHINGTON – Seven individuals and two corporations have been charged in the United States with running an international organized criminal enterprise allegedly responsible for massive worldwide online piracy of numerous types of copyrighted works, through Megaupload.com and other related sites, generating more than $175 million in criminal proceeds and causing more than half a billion dollars in harm to copyright owners, the U.S. Justice Department and FBI announced today.

This action is among the largest criminal copyright cases ever brought by the United States and directly targets the misuse of a public content storage and distribution site to commit and facilitate intellectual property crime.

The individuals and two corporations – Megaupload Limited and Vestor Limited – were indicted by a grand jury in the Eastern District of Virginia on Jan. 5, 2012, and charged with engaging in a racketeering conspiracy, conspiring to commit copyright infringement, conspiring to commit money laundering and two substantive counts of criminal copyright infringement. The individuals each face a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison on the charge of conspiracy to commit racketeering, five years in prison on the charge of conspiracy to commit copyright infringement, 20 years in prison on the charge of conspiracy to commit money laundering and five years in prison on each of the substantive charges of criminal copyright infringement.

The indictment alleges that the criminal enterprise is led by Kim Dotcom, aka Kim Schmitz and Kim Tim Jim Vestor, 37, a resident of both Hong Kong and New Zealand. Dotcom founded Megaupload Limited and is the director and sole shareholder of Vestor Limited, which has been used to hold his ownership interests in the Mega-affiliated sites.

In addition, the following alleged members of the Mega conspiracy were charged in the indictment:
Finn Batato, 38, a citizen and resident of Germany, who is the chief marketing officer;
Julius Bencko, 35, a citizen and resident of Slovakia, who is the graphic designer;
Sven Echternach, 39, a citizen and resident of Germany, who is the head of business development;
Mathias Ortmann, 40, a citizen of Germany and resident of both Germany and Hong Kong, who is the chief technical officer, co-founder and director;
Andrus Nomm, 32, a citizen of Estonia and resident of both Turkey and Estonia, who is a software programmer and head of the development software division;
Bram van der Kolk, aka Bramos, 29, a Dutch citizen and resident of both the Netherlands and New Zealand, who oversees programming and the underlying network structure for the Mega conspiracy websites.
Dotcom, Batato, Ortmann and van der Kolk were arrested today in Auckland, New Zealand, by New Zealand authorities, who executed provisional arrest warrants requested by the United States. Bencko, Echternach and Nomm remain at large. Today, law enforcement also executed more than 20 search warrants in the United States and eight countries, seized approximately $50 million in assets and targeted sites where Megaupload has servers in Ashburn, Va., Washington, D.C., the Netherlands and Canada. In addition, the U.S. District Court in Alexandria, Va., ordered the seizure of 18 domain names associated with the alleged Mega conspiracy.

According to the indictment, for more than five years the conspiracy has operated websites that unlawfully reproduce and distribute infringing copies of copyrighted works, including movies – often before their theatrical release – music, television programs, electronic books, and business and entertainment software on a massive scale. The conspirators’ content hosting site, Megaupload.com, is advertised as having more than one billion visits to the site, more than 150 million registered users, 50 million daily visitors and accounting for four percent of the total traffic on the Internet. The estimated harm caused by the conspiracy’s criminal conduct to copyright holders is well in excess of $500 million. The conspirators allegedly earned more than $175 million in illegal profits through advertising revenue and selling premium memberships.

The indictment states that the conspirators conducted their illegal operation using a business model expressly designed to promote uploading of the most popular copyrighted works for many millions of users to download. The indictment alleges that the site was structured to discourage the vast majority of its users from using Megaupload for long-term or personal storage by automatically deleting content that was not regularly downloaded. The conspirators further allegedly offered a rewards program that would provide users with financial incentives to upload popular content and drive web traffic to the site, often through user-generated websites known as linking sites. The conspirators allegedly paid users whom they specifically knew uploaded infringing content and publicized their links to users throughout the world.

In addition, by actively supporting the use of third-party linking sites to publicize infringing content, the conspirators did not need to publicize such content on the Megaupload site. Instead, the indictment alleges that the conspirators manipulated the perception of content available on their servers by not providing a public search function on the Megaupload site and by not including popular infringing content on the publicly available lists of top content downloaded by its users.

As alleged in the indictment, the conspirators failed to terminate accounts of users with known copyright infringement, selectively complied with their obligations to remove copyrighted materials from their servers and deliberately misrepresented to copyright holders that they had removed infringing content. For example, when notified by a rights holder that a file contained infringing content, the indictment alleges that the conspirators would disable only a single link to the file, deliberately and deceptively leaving the infringing content in place to make it seamlessly available to millions of users to access through any one of the many duplicate links available for that file.

The indictment charges the defendants with conspiring to launder money by paying users through the sites’ uploader reward program and paying companies to host the infringing content.

The case is being prosecuted by the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Eastern District of Virginia and the Computer Crime & Intellectual Property Section in the Justice Department’s Criminal Division. The Criminal Division’s Office of International Affairs, Organized Crime and Gang Section, and Asset Forfeiture and Money Laundering Section also assisted with this case.

The investigation was initiated and led by the FBI at the National Intellectual Property Rights Coordination Center (IPR Center), with assistance from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s Homeland Security Investigations. Substantial and critical assistance was provided by the New Zealand Police, the Organised and Financial Crime Agency of New Zealand (OFCANZ), the Crown Law Office of New Zealand and the Office of the Solicitor General for New Zealand; Hong Kong Customs and the Hong Kong Department of Justice; the Netherlands Police Agency and the Public Prosecutor’s Office for Serious Fraud and Environmental Crime in Rotterdam; London’s Metropolitan Police Service; Germany’s Bundeskriminalamt and the German Public Prosecutors; and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police – Greater Toronto Area (GTA) Federal Enforcement Section and the Integrated Technological Crime Unit and the Canadian Department of Justice’s International Assistance Group. Authorities in the United Kingdom, Australia and the Philippines also provided assistance.

This case is part of efforts being undertaken by the Department of Justice Task Force on Intellectual Property (IP Task Force) to stop the theft of intellectual property. Attorney General Eric Holder created the IP Task Force to combat the growing number of domestic and international intellectual property crimes, protect the health and safety of American consumers, and safeguard the nation’s economic security against those who seek to profit illegally from American creativity, innovation and hard work. The IP Task Force seeks to strengthen intellectual property rights protection through heightened criminal and civil enforcement, greater coordination among federal, state and local law enforcement partners, and increased focus on international enforcement efforts, including reinforcing relationships with key foreign partners and U.S. industry leaders. To learn more about the IP Task Force, go to www.justice.gov/dag/iptaskforce.

12-074
Criminal Division

[Taro8]

Can someone summarize this? Lots of words make my tiny brain go ouchie.

[Blackhawk]

If SOPA gets through, then the US Government are going to have to deal with A LOT of pissed off people. Obama can forget being re-elected.

[-Martin-]

If SOPA gets through, then the US Government are going to have to deal with A LOT of pissed off people. Obama can forget being re-elected.

Heh, forget about Obama and elections, it doesn't matter who gets elected and who is in power (And it probably doesn’t matter that much to him if he gets re-elected or not). If SOPA gets through, the internet will never be the same again because taking down SOPA will be a very hard thing to do and America is the key player when it comes to the internet.

I don't know if any political parties in the US are promising to stop SOPA or to remove it if they get elected (because I don't live there) but take my advice and make sure that SOPA doesn't get through, because even if they get elected you can be damn sure they won't even think about SOPA.

Not to go off topic but in the UK, we were promised that tuition fees would not rise, but they did, and what is the opposition doing? Saying that they will lower the fees :tongue: Guess what will happen after they get elected :wink_o:

So don't wait, sign any petition and do whatever you can before it’s too late even if you're not from the US, even if you don't like the US.

[STALKERGB]

SOPA

And anyway, didn't SOPA (initially at least) have bipartisan support in the US? So I dunno how big a difference it would make to an election campaign.

As for Megaupload, won't Kim Dotcom and the others arrested have to be put in front of a US judge (if they are extradited) to determine whether their arrest had just and probable cause seeing as it was an indictment? (based on my limited legal knowledge lol)

[ProfTournesol]

So a grand jury in the Eastern District of Virginia can dictate the whole world what it decided ? BTW they owe me 20 € for my premium account !

[RangerPL]

So a grand jury in the Eastern District of Virginia can dictate the whole world what it decided ? BTW they owe me 20 € for my premium account !Well if that's where Megaupload was hosted, then yes, they can.

[MadDogX]

Well if that's where Megaupload was hosted, then yes, they can.
Megaupload was based in Hong Kong.

[Nicholas]

This is from what I posted earlier:


Today, law enforcement also executed more than 20 search warrants in the United States and eight countries, seized approximately $50 million in assets and targeted sites where Megaupload has servers in Ashburn, Va., Washington, D.C., the Netherlands and Canada. In addition, the U.S. District Court in Alexandria, Va., ordered the seizure of 18 domain names associated with the alleged Mega conspiracy.

Now if Megaupload would not have had servers in the U.S., the U.S. government would not have been able to do anything. I'm also sure that they have servers elsewhere that were not involved in the raid.

[walker]

Hi all

Once again innocent until proven guilty is ditched by US justice in favour of protecting big corporate dinosaurs.

The Megaupload site which is praised by Musical and other artists as freeing them from the clutches of the likes of Universal who miss used anti piracy provisions on YouTube to take down this advertising jingle by Artists supporting Megaupload:
o0Wvn-9BXVc

Shows the real purpose of this action and all the SOPA and PIPA legislation is about protectionism for the dinosaurs of the content industry preventing new market entrants from entering the market and allowing artists to take a control of their own content.

Only an artist who cannot do the math signs to the old labels who will take 95% of your earnings for a distribution model that is so out of date that it uses trucks to move data.

Kind regards walker

[b0b]

First video: Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom appears in court
nZPe97vZJXM


Hmm done for laundering money eh, odd how its one rule for one and different rules for government. U.S Gov weren't complaining when Miami and Florida was built on money from Cocaine trade. Comparing the two maybe off a little but it just p"s^%s me off when gov's do this, like they arnt as corrupt, taking the moral high ground., utter bollox.

[topas]

It's on indeed.

And not only in the US.
We are going to adopt ACTA (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100120/0216537828.shtml) next week. Our Ministry of Culture and Heritage and Ministry of Economy have yesterday informed that the (controversial) act it's due to be signed January 26th in Japan.

There was no public consultation on this matter and it's being clearly introduced through the back door, without any mainstream media even telling a word.

zJELoVd-OXE

[Dekster]

Hope the us government gets hacked big time.

[walker]

It's on indeed.

And not only in the US.
We are going to adopt ACTA (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100120/0216537828.shtml) next week. Our Ministry of Culture and Heritage and Ministry of Economy have yesterday informed that the (controversial) act it's due to be signed January 26th in Japan.

There was no public consultation on this matter and it's being clearly introduced through the back door, without any mainstream media even telling a word.

Hi all

In reply to topas.

The mainstream media are the ones this law is for. The internet frees the artists from their clutches they want it shut down. Hense their hatred of internet TV boxes Netflix and Google TV as well which they are not mentioning or are panning in review.

This is a battle about who controls the market for the media, the artists and film makers or the big corporate businesses who style themseles as the marketing term "producers" while the produce nothing they just tax those who do.

Kind regards walker

[topas]

big corporate businesses who style themseles as the marketing term "producers" while the produce nothing they just tax those who do.

+1

Kind regards
T.

[metalcraze]

What's more ridiculous is that dudes who post videos on YouTube with a copyright music don't get anything for this (like money) and in fact do a free advertising for that band.

I bet if stupid stuff like this passes - it is likely soon there will be a law to allow EA & Co to sue people for posting gameplay videos since they contain copyrighted content.

[vilas]

eh.... i can only say - i knew it :|

all freedom we had in world in past was thanx to 2 oposite big blocks
each block wanted to tease citizens "look they have worse, we are better, we can give you this and that, fight for us"
when there is no 2 blocks but one block, there is no need to tease anyone, now it is time to "obey and listen and shut up and work for us"

+1 to Topas and Walker

if they want fight piracy, let they pay us more money, let corporations have lower profits
it cannot be the way, that in my country monthly salary of average person is not enough to buy Photoshop
without eating anything i am able to buy 2 Windows copies

but it is not act against piracy
it will be used against quoting someone or against free media (which for example qoute other gazette saying "politician x told to y gazette that something"
and now you will not be able to quote it

later they will start fighting freeware, they will destroy freeware in future and you will only have to pay and pay to big companies, who will buy small companies and make prices twice bigger

[DMarkwick]

Taken from Scott Adams' blog (http://dilbert.com/blog/):


Warning: This blog is written for a rational audience that likes to have fun wrestling with unique or controversial points of view. It is written in a style that can easily be confused as advocacy or opinion. It is not intended to change anyone's beliefs or actions. If you quote from this post or link to it, which you are welcome to do, please take responsibility for whatever happens if you mismatch the audience and the content.

Done :)


Are you following the huge debate about the proposed legislation in the United States to stop online piracy? It's called SOPA, short for Stop Online Piracy Act.

I'm fascinated by the debate because it's an ideal example of how we humans make decisions in the face of complexity. The proposed legislation is simple enough in terms of its purpose: Reducing piracy on the Internet. But its unintended consequences are not knowable. Critics claim the law will be overused and result in punishing or killing defenseless and legitimate sites without due process. Those in favor of SOPA say it will only make the illegal foreign pirate sites inaccessible from the United States. Based on my limited understanding of the issue, I don't know who is right. Neither do you. The best we can do is to apply unscientific methods, i.e. fancy guessing, that we might label intuition or common sense to make us feel better. Let's see where that takes us.

Rule of Thumb

Thanks to Republicans, and Ron Paul in particular, the idea that more government is always bad has gained a larger following than ever. That's doubly so when we're dealing with the Wild West of the Internet. It's a simple rule of thumb: The more the government interferes, the worse off we are.

By that filter, the SOPA question boils down to this: What is worse - allowing legitimate businesses to be robbed of their intellectual property, or having the government try to stop it? There is so little trust in government that most people prefer being robbed over the alternative of having the government get involved and making things worse.

Bottom line: If you apply the "more government is bad" rule of thumb, SOPA is a bad idea.

Pattern Recognition

If you strip out the details of the SOPA debate, the form looks like this:

Opponent: That law will cause huge problems because (reason).

Supporter: If you hold that opinion, you must have read the law wrong.

And...

Opponent: The requirements of the law are totally impractical.

Supporter: Something like SOPA is already being done successfully in other countries.

Pattern recognition often gives you the wrong answer because coincidences can look like a pattern. On the other hand, if ten political ads from the same candidate fail the fact-checking filters, there's a high likelihood the eleventh won't be much better. So pattern recognition does have its place.

In my own life, I find that when people disagree with my opinions, they are more often than not disagreeing with a misinterpretation of my opinion, not my actual opinion. And when a law is being used successfully in one place, it raises the odds it can work in another place.

There's also a pattern that tells me I shouldn't put too much stock in claims that a proposed law will rob my freedom and destroy the economy. Every law robs citizens of one sort of freedom or another, and costs money too. And yet most laws are sensible and work just fine in the long run. On the other hand, stopping piracy feels a lot like Prohibition, and that didn't work out.

Speaking of the liquor analogy, bar owners are in an analogous situation under current laws. If a bar over-serves a customer, or serves minors, it can lose its license. And yet most bars inadvertently over-serve customers, and every bar has served minors that have good fake I.D.s. Here's an example where the government could easily over-apply the law, but it rarely happens. I owned two restaurants, and I would say the draconian laws were helpful in keeping the over-serving to a minimum, and the I.D. checking to a maximum. So there's precedent that makes me optimistic that reasonable humans wouldn't apply SOPA death sentences to web sites in cases of trivial copyright infringement. But you never know.

Bottom line: The supporters of SOPA have an argument structure I most often associate with the superior argument. That doesn't make them right. It's just an observation about the pattern of the argument when you strip out the content.

Expert Opinion

Lots of heavyweight corporations and organizations oppose SOPA. Some of the opponents are kidnap victims with guns to their temples (GoDaddy.com). Other supporters look like Stockholm Syndrome types. Still others have a financial interest in passively aiding and abetting the theft of intellectual property. Some have no credibility whatsoever, e.g. anyone in Congress. And it's hard to trust anyone with a balance sheet who claims to be fighting for my freedom.

Then there's the philosophical bias problem. Ron Paul and others would presumably forgo a million dollars of benefits if it required one extra dollar of government expense, or one extra law that reduces freedom. For some folks, it's the principle of the thing, and I respect that point of view. But are the anti-big-government people comparing the size of the benefits to the size of the costs, or are they simply rejecting anything that looks like a government overreach, complication, or interference?

Some big-name lawyers say SOPA will be a nightmare if implemented. But I'm guessing the law itself was crafted by lawyers, and presumably those lawyers have a different opinion.

And who came up with SOPA in the first place? Wasn't it a bunch of corporations who wouldn't mind pushing some costs on other people if it helps their profits?

Bottom line: Money and philosophical bias make all of the experts in this case unreliable.

Self-Interest Crossover

You would expect artists and content owners to support SOPA, and you would expect the people who would be caught in legal dragnets to oppose it. The interesting people are the crossovers: The parties who take the "wrong" side of the issue. And indeed, many creators do just that, publicly arguing against SOPA even though it is specifically aimed at protecting their financial interests. But at the risk of being unkind, a lot of people become artists because they aren't good at things like math and legal analysis. When I want an opinion on the Constitution, or economics, I rarely consult an artist.

Bottom line: The crossovers aren't persuasive.

My Self-Interest

I have one of the most widely stolen intellectual properties in the history of the world. Emotionally, I'm okay with that. It feels like a compliment. Financially, I have no idea if piracy has hurt me in any meaningful way. I made the decision years ago to make Dilbert available on the Internet, including the entire archive. To the surprise of most observers, sales of Dilbert to traditional newspapers continued to grow briskly.

Bottom line: As a creator, my bias is in favor of protecting intellectual property. But in my specific case, SOPA probably wouldn't have any impact on my life or income.

Verdict

I'm unbiased in the sense that SOPA probably wouldn't have any impact on me one way or another. And I'm not qualified to look at the language of the law and make judgments about its unintended consequences. When I look at the applicable rules of thumb, the pattern of the argument, and the expert opinions, I don't get a clear answer about SOPA. And when I don't have a clear answer, I default to the "do nothing" point of view. Therefore, I conditionally oppose SOPA, not because I know it will be bad, but because I can't predict its impact.

I reserve the right to flip-flop at any moment. Make your best arguments in the comment section and see if you can flip me.

[vilas]

seeing video posted by Topas and about "democracy"
what should be democracy ?
that "people" vote for something and will of majority wins
example - referendums in Swiss
what is "democracy" in countries like my ?
- you vote for politicians who BEFORE being elected say "A, B, C"
and after they sign law "X, Y, Z" and send police to beat people shouting "where is A, B, C"
is it democracy that governments sign international agreements which have 90% of opponents ?
when i was young and naive i believed in "army, nation, police" i thought that army defend country, i believed that police fight criminals, i believed that government takes care about taxpayers
now i know it all false
government is corrupted by big corporations, when interest is abroad (or other country do not want to follow corrupted will) they send army, when interest of corporation is internal, they sending police
this is how this all is done in many many countries

so if you will quote anyone, they will bar you ;]

BIS moderator - please delete option "quote" cause it is "against SOPA" :) ;) :) :)
sounds crazy ? according to SOPA not

i wonder how patent law will function
now "for good of humanity" medical patents lasts only some years
i cannot imagine prices of medicines if patents would be forever

how can we for example prove lie of politicians who said something one day (recorded by one TV station) and moth later he says oposite way (also recorded by tv station) without putting together those things on Youtube ?

in Poland we had such case:
one station wanted to prove lies to other tv station
they shown facts and material of this lying station
you know what happened ?
"those materials are i.p. and cannot be used"
how can you prove lie if you cannot "quote" ?
and ... those who wanted to prove lies - couldn't do it because orginal tv stations not allowed to use records ! so how can you prove anything if someone forbids you to use record ??? how ?
and movie from Youtube was deleted :(
it was clearly showing lies of 2 journalists from one "mainstream" station :/
people cannot watch it since then

thats why they are preparing it
not to protect musician, graphician
but to have possibility to disallow quote

all problems in history of mankind were always because of small very rich greed group
not because of majority of people

[metalcraze]

Look what happens to Megaupload now. While everyone was too bothered about SOPA which got shelved for a time being.

This is ridiculous.

[maturin]

What's more ridiculous is that dudes who post videos on YouTube with a copyright music don't get anything for this (like money) and in fact do a free advertising for that band.

Ha, well, then there's people like me who listen to music exclusively on youtube and never buy any CDs.

[walker]

Hi all

Megaupload are fighting it but they need our help:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31001_3-57362609-261/megaupload-assembles-worldwide-criminal-defense/

If you live in New Zealand let your politicians know what you think about justice abandoning innocent until proven guilty for corporate influence.

Kind regards walker

[vilas]

wtf ?
america wants to arrest not-american citizens for piracy
f*** how can american gov. touch anyone except US citizens, world globe do not belong to one state and 5% of world population
this is sick
american law working outside borders of US :/
why the hell , when i was hunting one guy (debtor who owns me money) in NZ and AU they refused any help (one guy owns me ca. 40-50 000 Euro)
this sucks that FBI hunts people outside US borders

[MadDogX]

wtf ?
america wants to arrest not-american citizens for piracy
f*** how can american gov. touch anyone except US citizens, world globe do not belong to one state and 5% of world population
this is sick
american law working outside borders of US :/
why the hell , when i was hunting one guy (debtor who owns me money) in NZ and AU they refused any help (one guy owns me ca. 40-50 000 Euro)
this sucks that FBI hunts people outside US borders
Two words: extradition treaty.

Poland has signed one too, btw.

[vilas]

but some Polish criminals are not given by US or Israel or NZ
examples ? some mafia bosses accused of killing policeman in Poland was not given by US (ca. 2007 it was famous case in PL, chief of Police was killed few years earlier and US refused to give "businessman" )
one guy who stole a lot of money and escaped to Israel is not given (afera Art-B) from early 90s
US or Israel do not allow to extradict their criminal citizens, while other have to do it ? :/
this all anti-piracy seems weird
instead of lowering prices, making wages higher, they fight Youtube
soon they will forbid quoting , later maybe even freeware
i PL windows box costs more than minimal wage
some people work for less monthly than windows costs ,
so to defeat piracy, company should make prices lower in poor countries
but it is opposite way, in Germany or US or UK you can buy it cheaper

even now you have problems when you want proove somebody lie using record from other TV station :/
if someone recorded something, than you cannot use it (one case in PL) although without record you cannot proove something :/ weird
i also use Youtube everyday, i cannot imagine it to be closed , it is against culture

such acts like SOPA are very dangerous
cause one day guys who make Youtube can be barred, another day maybe some addonmakers for using "photo of tank as background for texture", day after arma-news websites cause "they spread piracy"

[STALKERGB]

basis of the indictment if anyone wants a read:



In practice, the "vast majority" of users do not have any significant long term private storage capability. Continued storage is dependent upon regular downloads of the file occurring. Files not downloaded are rapidly removed in most cases, whereas popular downloaded files are retained.

Because a small proportion of users pay for storage, the business is dependent upon advertising. Adverts are primarily viewed when files are downloaded and the business model is therefore not based upon storage but upon maximizing downloads.

Persons indicted have "instructed individual users how to locate links to infringing content on the Mega Sites ... [and] ... have also shared with each other comments from Mega Site users demonstrating that they have used or are attempting to use the Mega Sites to get infringing copies of copyrighted content."

Persons indicted, unlike the public, are not reliant upon links to stored files, but can search the internal database directly. It is claimed they have "searched the internal database for their associates and themselves so that they may directly access copyright-infringing content".

A comprehensive takedown method is in use to identify child pornography, but not deployed to remove infringing content. (item 24)

Infringing users did not have their accounts terminated, and the defendants "made no significant effort to identify users who were using the Mega Sites or services to infringe copyrights, to prevent the uploading of infringing copies of copyrighted materials, or to identify infringing copies of copyrighted works" (item 55-56)

An incentivizing program was adopted encouraging the upload of "popular" files in return for payments to successful uploaders. (item 69e et al)

Defendants explicitly discussed evasion and infringement issues (69i-l)

[-Martin-]

Well I always told everyone that what goes around comes around, back in the day the US government said that there is oppression in the Eastern Bloc, so now let them have oppression in their own country and we will see what they say.

Unfortunately, it’s us that are going to suffer for this as always.

But on the other side, if SOPA does come in to force open source software will grow, nobody will download illegal copies of Windows, instead people will download Linux, and open source software legally and for free. :smile:

[vilas]

or maybe our rulers wants people to not watch news on Youtube, not watch documentary movies, not know literature
to have STUPID people - such obey better !

someone who not watch independent news, different movies, different documents, books - such person do not know enough about world and culture,
so maybe all such acts are just to make people more morons
expensive not free education + bans on website sharing knowledge = and you will have stupid population
easy to steer, easy to buy any bullshit that mainstream or politician says

add to it ban on quoting (also i.p. if you use someones words, images, records) as i gave example of 2 tv stations , which one was trying to prove that anotherone lied

be blind, obey, work harder - is it our future ?


instead people will download Linux

i doubt
looking at reality and history i would foresee :
- they will ban freeware somehow (for example calling opensource dagnerous, afair there were attempts to stop freeware, do you remember it ? )
- they will rise prices of pay-ware threatening using police/court/jails "just buy another copy and give money to big corporation owner"

[batto]

This whole copyright thing is sooo retarded. Defenders talks about jobs. I don't really get it. 2 millions people work for music industry? And piracy means most of them will be fired? Well, I don't see the problem here. That's capitalism isn't it? This business model was their decision. Capitalism ... OK, Corporations making laws ... NOT OK.

[Nicholas]

I'll post this once again since most of you seemed to miss it.


Today, law enforcement also executed more than 20 search warrants in the United States and eight countries, seized approximately $50 million in assets and targeted sites where Megaupload has servers in Ashburn, Va., Washington, D.C., the Netherlands and Canada. In addition, the U.S. District Court in Alexandria, Va., ordered the seizure of 18 domain names associated with the alleged Mega conspiracy.

The only reason the US government was able to do anything, was because Megaupload had two servers within the US. If Megaupload did not have any servers in the US, they wouldn't be able to do anything. That's why the government wants SOPA and PIPA, so they can control sites like Megaupload, even if they do not have servers in the US.

[metalcraze]

Ha, well, then there's people like me who listen to music exclusively on youtube and never buy any CDs.

It isn't like anyone earns or loses money when a video is posted on YouTube, you may not buy CD either way - what's worse is that a publisher may have uploaded a music video himself, but won't allow other users do the same. What's the point? I can watch videos uploaded by the publisher and not buy CDs either. What's the difference? The cozy feeling of not having a butthurt for a greedy suit?

[topas]

be blind, obey, work harder - is it our future ?

And here comes Fritz Lang, saying: "I told you so.."
lsQ7wWCjHX0

So does Orwell
:D

[[GLT] Legislator]

wtf ?
america wants to arrest not-american citizens for piracy
f*** how can american gov. touch anyone except US citizens, world globe do not belong to one state and 5% of world population
this is sick
american law working outside borders of US :/
why the hell , when i was hunting one guy (debtor who owns me money) in NZ and AU they refused any help (one guy owns me ca. 40-50 000 Euro)
this sucks that FBI hunts people outside US borders

Well I'm not surprised. Anyone remembering El-Masri? He was no saint but the whole affair was really fishy.

[-Martin-]

be blind, obey, work harder - is it our future ?

No Vilas, this is our present :sad:

---------- Post added at 05:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:49 PM ----------


Sopa and Pipa bills postponed in US Congress :yay:

The US Congress has halted debate on two contested anti-online piracy bills.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid delayed a vote on the Protect IP Act (Pipa) scheduled for Tuesday.

House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith then said his panel would not consider the Stop Online Piracy Act (Sopa) until a compromise was reached.

The decisions follow protests by online encyclopaedia Wikipedia, and thousands of other websites, which went "dark" in protest for 24 hours earlier this week.

"In light of recent events, I have decided to postpone Tuesday's vote on the PROTECT IP Act," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Democrat, said in a statement on Friday.

Mr Smith, a Texas Republican in the House of Representatives, said in a statement: "I have heard from the critics and I take seriously their concerns regarding proposed legislation to address the problem of online piracy.

"It is clear that we need to revisit the approach on how best to address the problem of foreign thieves that steal and sell American inventions and products."


More at... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16655272

[[GR]Operative]

SOPA-supporters say that if you listen to music in the internet, never buying it, you are robbing the artists. I don't see it this way. YouTube created ALL the current bestselling artists out there. Without it, they would be nowhere near where they are now.
With filesharing, we are able to discover culture far away from our home. Even if we don't buy it, someone will. So, a no-profit deadend becomes a profitable horizon.
Now, several people are able to survive, let's say, making music. Sometime ago, they would never have such an oportunity: they could not reach so far, just making some shows and selling some CDs.

[Fox '09]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJsyxyWUW0s&feature=g-all-u&context=G29e1665FAAAAAAAAWAA
best explanation of SOPA imo

[ProfTournesol]

This case is part of efforts being undertaken by the Department of Justice Task Force on Intellectual Property (IP Task Force) to stop the theft of intellectual property.

Congratulations. A memorable sword strike into water :icon_ohmygod:

[STALKERGB]

SOPA/PIPA in it's current form is dead(ish).


Chairman Smith: “I have heard from the critics and I take seriously their concerns regarding proposed legislation to address the problem of online piracy. It is clear that we need to revisit the approach on how best to address the problem of foreign thieves that steal and sell American inventions and products.

“The problem of online piracy is too big to ignore. American intellectual property industries provide 19 million high-paying jobs and account for more than 60 percent of U.S. exports. The theft of America’s intellectual property costs the U.S. economy more than $100 billion annually and results in the loss of thousands of American jobs. Congress cannot stand by and do nothing while American innovators and job creators are under attack.

“The online theft of American intellectual property is no different than the theft of products from a store. It is illegal and the law should be enforced both in the store and online.

“The Committee will continue work with copyright owners, Internet companies, financial institutions to develop proposals that combat online piracy and protect America’s intellectual property. We welcome input from all organizations and individuals who have an honest difference of opinion about how best to address this widespread problem. The Committee remains committed to finding a solution to the problem of online piracy that protects American intellectual property and innovation.”

The House Judiciary Committee will postpone consideration of the legislation until there is wider agreement on a solution.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Martin :p

[VIPER[CWW]]

"It is clear that we need to revisit the approach on how best to address the problem of foreign thieves that steal and sell American inventions and products."

Cry me a river... :cool:

[-Martin-]

The front line lies in silence http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/10001/victory-smiley.gif, for now... Let's wait and see what happens after they regroup.

[STALKERGB]

"It is clear that we need to revisit the approach on how best to address the problem of foreign thieves that steal and sell American inventions and products."

@<hidden>, yeah that line caught my attention too, really makes it sound like "America against the World" kind of thing which is silly. Also half makes it sound like the US is the only place that has inventions and products worth stealing lol. Probably not what he meant but a strange sentence all the same.

[NodUnit]

Operative;2093070']SOPA-supporters say that if you listen to music in the internet, never buying it, you are robbing the artists. I don't see it this way. YouTube created ALL the current bestselling artists out there. Without it, they would be nowhere near where they are now.
With filesharing, we are able to discover culture far away from our home. Even if we don't buy it, someone will. So, a no-profit deadend becomes a profitable horizon.
Now, several people are able to survive, let's say, making music. Sometime ago, they would never have such an oportunity: they could not reach so far, just making some shows and selling some CDs.

That's true, I can't tell you how many music CD's I bought of bands I had never heard of thanks to youtube, it comes double when the music is featured in a vide..curiosity perks, scrolling comments for source, acquire what intel there is, search for and find it, maybe listen to another and decide "Hey I like this!" and BAM, purchase. Any company that thinks they can save tons of revenue from 'piracy' by removing their content from the web is blind with greed, they'd practicly be killing free promoting and publicizing of their products that would ensure more money.


wtf ?
america wants to arrest not-american citizens for piracy
f*** how can american gov. touch anyone except US citizens, world globe do not belong to one state and 5% of world population
this is sick

Trust me we're under heat just as much as the rest of you, SOPA was originally planned as US net to filter and ban content from us, not you.
Problem is how many servers are in the US, google for example, which would allow them to also filter content outgoing. and even worse, though off topic, recently a bill was passed called the "National Defense Authorization Act", essentially homeland security 2.0.
This bill allows the arrest of any US citizen without due process, you are not given a trial, told why you are under arrest and they can break into your home at any time, for any reason be it to place wire taps, search what you have or arrest you. Good bye free speech, bill of rights, constution. They want to screw us as much as the rest of you. That said I agree that our laws should not pass beyond our borders regardless of product, do we follow Chinese laws when using their products?

At any rate I imagine this isn't over, and we should keep an eye out for similar bull that might pop up in other countries.

[ST_Dux]

This whole copyright thing is sooo retarded. Defenders talks about jobs. I don't really get it. 2 millions people work for music industry? And piracy means most of them will be fired? Well, I don't see the problem here. That's capitalism isn't it? This business model was their decision. Capitalism ... OK, Corporations making laws ... NOT OK.
+1. The people fighting against internet piracy now are the same idiots who tried to make the VCR illegal when it was new. They're swimming against the tide, and they will eventually lose.

[maturin]

It isn't like anyone earns or loses money when a video is posted on YouTube, you may not buy CD either way - what's worse is that a publisher may have uploaded a music video himself, but won't allow other users do the same. What's the point? I can watch videos uploaded by the publisher and not buy CDs either. What's the difference? The cozy feeling of not having a butthurt for a greedy suit?

The difference is that I would go crazy without free access to music, break down and buy a CD.

So they make less money this way, not because of real piracy, but because of a general lost ability to completely control the availability of their product on the market. It's a whole new ballgame.

[vilas]

you missed one point (which i told) and which Topas quoted movie shown

such regulations are dangerous because they can forbid quoting
as i told
in PL we had following case:
one TV station shown false material, journalists lied
another TV station mounted program about it with fragmenst of above (first) TV station to show lies
and ... it was blocked, because of intelectual property law
second TV station couldn't show broadcast of first
movie was removed from Youtube "because part of movie belongs to xxx company"

what does it mean ?
imagine yourselves, primeminister before election says "i will raise wages for 10%"
after election guy says "i will decrease it for 15%"
and you want proove that guy is liar
so you mount his records and put on YT and suddenly "because of ip material is removed"

such acts are not made for music industry or software industry only
such acts are "door" to enter cenzorship

because all is intelectual property, even our posts here
so when you want to proove someone lies, you cannot quote it (cause guy demands for example 1 milion dollars for his quote or refuse to use it by others )
it is backdoor to global cenzorship
musicians, actors, writers... they are not goal
well informed citizen is at aim

[[GLT] Legislator]

Operative;2093070']SOPA-supporters say that if you listen to music in the internet, never buying it, you are robbing the artists.

lol I would rather quit listening to music forever than accepting SOPA. In germany we have pay a fee for the usage of radios, computers, mobile phones with internet capability and tvs. We have to pay copy charges included in some of the product prices ... well ... I think those dudes are getting enough. Don't know how it's handled in other countries, but I expect a similar situation.

[jblackrupert]

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/3252/sopav.jpg

[metalcraze]

The difference is that I would go crazy without free access to music, break down and buy a CD.
Yes maybe 1 or 2 CDs but not all related to what you can listen to now. That's how it was before the internet. That's like 10 bucks of income to publishers, while they waste millions to fight windmills especially considering that they themselves make their content freely available on YouTube which they also fight.


SOPA-supporters say that if you listen to music in the internet, never buying it, you are robbing the artists. I don't see it this way. YouTube created ALL the current bestselling artists out there. Without it, they would be nowhere near where they are now.

A single live performance brings more money to any artist than sales of his records during a month. A ticket usually costs much more than an album itself.
The difference is that labels get barely anything from live performances but most of their income comes from sales of CDs.

That's why you see lawyers of Sony, BMG, Universal and other big crap chasing people who won't pay regardless, not lawyers of artists.

[Beagle]

Yes maybe 1 or 2 CDs but not all related to what you can listen to now. That's how it was before the internet. That's like 10 bucks of income to publishers, while they waste millions to fight windmills especially considering that they themselves make their content freely available on YouTube which they also fight.



A single live performance brings more money to any artist than sales of his records during a month. A ticket usually costs much more than an album itself.
The difference is that labels get barely anything from live performances but most of their income comes from sales of CDs.

That's why you see lawyers of Sony, BMG, Universal and other big crap chasing people who won't pay regardless, not lawyers of artists.

The artist usualyl does not get more than 10% of the sale income of a CD release, this is no guess but a hard fact I was told from members of two not totally unknown metal bands with "Nuclear Blast" contracts.

[vilas]

i double this what you said about incomes from CD, i also know few musicians (also metal bands) they also say that they earn from live show i also know old musican (63 y.o.) who says similar things (he played in 60s, 70s in west (emigrant which now returned) )

we also have in Poland payment of "radio/tv tax" :/
so what f*** piracy they talk if i have to pay every month for "artists asociation because i have TV in home" (maybe US citizens do not have such payment as we in EU have)

but i am surprised that you all say about music only
don't you see that such acts can be backdoor to forbid quoting and proving ?
look more carefully on what i wrote about 2 tv stations , which one was lying and second was trying to prove facts comparing broadcast with real facts

when you have tv station broadcast - let's say "document" , this is also i.p.
when you want use fragment of it, you can't (so also you can't prove "look, they lied showing this" - because you cannot use part of recordings)
this is most dangerous

[-Martin-]

A single live performance brings more money to any artist than sales of his records during a month. A ticket usually costs much more than an album itself.
The difference is that labels get barely anything from live performances but most of their income comes from sales of CDs.

Dude, I don't even have a CD player... And the drive I got in my PC was last used to install ArmA 2...

I have 200+ GB of music on my PC, I'm not going to keep this much music at home in the form of CD's because its impractical, it damages the environment (nobody thinks of this) and to be honest I'd rather save the money and go to a concert with my friends. :tongue:

The more time that passes by, the more I really think that the captured Nazis didn't only make rockets for America and the more I remember this Soviet poster (A little glimpse in to the future form the past):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Poster35.jpg

(Maybe the commies we're lying to use after all) :rolleyes:

[OnlyRazor]

Freedom - the American way

Propaganda is funny. Sometimes correct, but always funny.

[-Martin-]

Freedom - the American way

Propaganda is funny. Sometimes correct, but always funny.

That's true http://kolobok.us/smiles/icq/biggrin.gif

[Sudayev]

more sites disabled

info@<hidden>
http://twitter.com/#!/YourAnonNews

interesting read
http://torrentfreak.com/megaupload-what-made-it-a-rogue-site-worthy-of-destruction-120120/

[Taro8]

Ok it seems that I was right, now its "think of the children". There are plans for a bill that will track all financial transactions: http://www.slashgear.com/sopa-sponsor-has-another-internet-bill-that-records-you-247-20210264/

[[GLT] Legislator]

Ok it seems that I was right, now its "think of the children".

Sorry :p Couldn't resist ...

Qh2sWSVRrmo

Guess I've broken laws now .. somewhere :confused:

[-Martin-]

Legislator;2093633']Sorry :p Couldn't resist ...

...video...

Guess I've broken laws now .. somewhere :confused:

What a stereotypic textbook move this is by the government :butbut:

They'll think of something to put you away for if you say stuff that they don’t like don't worry :wink_o: and if not they will just turn you in to a crazy man, communist, terrorist etc...

I guess if the belt keeps getting tighter we will soon have lots of American immigrants in Eastern Europe :biggrin: *sarcasm*


On topic now:

How is monitoring your financial transactions going to help fight paedophilia on the internet? And what a coincidence that this brilliant idea just came up now at the perfect time, any brain-dead monkey knows that paedophilia has been a problem on the internet for ages… and this could have been tought of years ago :rolleyes:

[mrcash2009]

How is monitoring your financial transactions going to help fight paedophilia on the internet?Its not, none of it is.

Everything you have seen since 2001 has been "take the worst case scenario, drum up a campaign, offer the solution" all of which are out of context and the end result is more tracking of ............... >> YOU << .

If this isn't enough for the penny to drop for the masses, its a lost cause.

Long term plan, get everyone into a network and onto a computer, make it free, then lock it down when its a dependency ... all planned long ago, and if anyone wants to throw tin foil hat and conspiracy crap into this, simply look around.

[Sudayev]

Site of the Polish parliament - Sejm hacked + site of The Polish Prime Minister and slimy servant to The EU Donald Tusk - hacked.

http://www.sejm.gov.pl/

Anti ACTA protets in EU are getting on strength

[-Martin-]

Site of the Polish parliament - Sejm hacked.

http://www.sejm.gov.pl/

Anti ACTA protets in EU are getting on strength

http://kolobok.us/smiles/icq/yahoo.gif Ura! Poland and the Czech Republic really need to stop following American influence, especially Poland...

I hope that those German hackers get their satellite in to space so we can have open internet (although 1 satellite wouldn’t handle it anyway), although they would probably still arrest people for copyright breaches even if the satellite doesn't belong to the US, unless the server was in an Asian country, in which case the US would just buy their way to closing it :sad:

I guess the only way to stop this is if a few people get h**ged in a uprising like in the Middle East... :tongue: Its about time we stop taking this from them.

[Sudayev]

Damn bastards they wanted to sign ACTA behind our backs in very shadowy circumstances, while Mr Buzek ex-President of the European Parliament, have announced that signing will be scheduled to 26 Jan. and in beginning of February he invites all Polish internet users to discuss about ACTA, does it sound normal - to sign first and then discuss? This man obviously took some wrong pills.

Jerzy Buzek said:
Dear friends. I´ve received lots of questions from you on ACTA and other ongoing issues. Why don’t we meet on a Facebook chat again to discuss them all? I would like to invite you to take part in the chat in early February

Today Polish govt heard the mesage loud and clear, but thats not all. People are sending letters with concerns about ACTA to their local parliament members, demonstrations are planned too.

These govt sites below were blocked. Some of them are still blocked.

mf.gov.pl, stat.gov.pl, ets.gov.pl, praca.gov.pl, mkidn.gov.pl, mkidn.gov.pl, pip.gov.pl, mzios.gov.pl, arimr.gov.pl, uzp.gov.pl, premier.gov.pl, knf.gov.pl.

Polish leading media are creating false image of current events, they call Megaupload - The World's Best Piracy HQ. Sigh... By the way they also marginalize the role of Ron Paul, they seem to avoid this name like fire, dunno why :/

Polish Sejm is try to deny of any attacks - "Sejm: This is only a technical problem" - how pathetic of them...

It's going on, the internet is buzzing very loudly.

[NodUnit]

Sounds like a shoot first ask questions later, at any rate I'm surprised that megaupload is in so much trouble considering the server isn't even in the US, although this is another website not in the US, you'd think piratebay would have been a larger target.

[solidsnake2384]

I think they tried to go after that once but failed.

[Eble]

I can see these sites moving offshore, the ones that are left at least.

The US will create some US firewall and just block them or make a half arsed attempt at it.

With the way the US laws are coming down on net companies you would be crazy hosting anything in the US.

Russia would be a better prospect lol.

The one thing I find truly strange is why isn't Hollywood and the music industry trying to adapt? why won't they try new ideas, I no longer want blu-ray disc hoggin up space. I'm all for digital solutions, one media centre and a TV, hopefully they'll merge soon as well.

[walker]

Hi all

Hollywood has had its day like the old fashioned broadcast TV networks it is in decline, each year their percentage of peoples leisure time and cash reduces along with their share of the advertising market. The providers of entertainment are increasingly diverse and the channels to access the market grow with every technological innovation. The genie is out of the bottle.

A musician no longer needs to sign to a label in fact they are stupid if they do. The fastest growing and most popular stages at Glastonbury are those featuring unsigned acts. And those artists do not have give up 95% of their earnings to their distributor.

If you make Film or TV you can distribute world wide via the internet, ditto games and you get to keep far more of your income.

The traditional dinosaurs of The Music Industry, Hollywood and Broadcast TV are in their death throws that is what SOPA, PIPA, ACTA and all these other treaties is all about.

That is why Murdoch was insulting the US President. Murdoch is desperate for he knows his business and his power are on the wane.

America can choose to decline with the dinosaurs or it can come into the 21st century.

Kind Regards walker

[Daniel]

Take a moment.

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/stop-extradition-fair-uk-trial-for-richard-o-dwyer.html

[nettrucker]

+1.

Yeah it's because the once big time music Industry has made losses in the last years. EMI has shut down due to bankruptcy and others will follow. The same has happened with the movie industry since fast connections have being introduced people are able to dl directly from the net in a couple of hours any film they want.

In any case it's not over yet . . . curious what they come up next with to censor the Internet.

[Sudayev]

Thanks to Anonymous efforts in Poland - the media actually write about ACTA and it's consequences to normal users! Prior to the attacks they didn't really care about ACTA, which is pretty sad.
I guess it's the only way to draw attention since the govt don't listen to normal people,the government only care about big industry & business first.

Listen to this... Spokesman of The Polish prime Minister lies openly in the eyes - this morning he said - we were not hacked, our servers are still intact - MILLIONS of people just WANTED To ENTER the prime minister's website AT ONCE (We Love the Iraqi Information Minister stuff). HA HA HA :D:D:D I don't know either they are dumb to understand what 'Distributed Denial of Service' is or it's just another form of their pathetic totalitarian propaganda. We have very weird ruling regime in Poland - they are almost like the EU version of Belarus.

Millions of people are still trying to 'reach' the www's of Sejm & Prime Minister. Sites are defunct :bounce3:

[ProfTournesol]

Yep, i used to consider Anonymous as funny cranks but now i really begin to think they are useful.

[vilas]

Sudayev - in PL mainstream media lies - how do you want people to know truth if opposition medias are cut-down, for example right-wing catholic TV station was refused to be present in the air ? some time ago all not liberal journalists in TVP1, TVP2 lost jobs, they were fired and all not-pro-liberal-pro-homo-pro-rich-pro-business journalists went underground (salon24.pl, niezalezna.pl, etc)

providers (businessman) want to cut from cable TV all what is not not-pro-liberal-pro-homo-pro-rich-pro-business
few weeks ago 2 cable tv cut all Russian TV stations (showing news not like TVN "our great friend , USA, taking care about our good and free market... bla bla bla work harder , do not demand bigger salary you lazy commies" )
people telling about social rights are cut by moderators on all biggest www web-pages which belong to 2 big concerns (ITI, which is onet.pl and TVN tv, and second group which is interia.pl, wp.pl and tv Polsat)

so how do you want people to know it ?
only things that "mainstream media" do is:
- lider of opposition is stupid,
- we have prosperity, but you must work harder
- it is not truth that social is existing in the west, it is all bullshit, noone gives flats, noone gives cheap medicines for elder people
- all is okay, our lawyers are wise, there is no corruption (so accorind to our media Sweden, Norway, England, New Zealand, Kanada do not exist in real life with their unemployment support, with their transparent law, with their 5 dollars medicine for seniors etc. )


weird ruling regime in Poland - they are almost like the EU version of Belarus
with one big difference - in Belarus, when burglar will broke into your home, he will be imprisoned, in Poland not, cause in Poland judge took bribe
i have family in Belarus (my roots are on pre-1939 Polish territory, now Lithuania/Belarus) and i know what my family tells my "don't belive in your tv, we do not have as bad life as your tv tells Poles"
once upon a time to home of my family burglar broke - Militia caught guy, he was sentenced for 4 years imprisonment
in 2005 burglar broke into my father home, neighbors seen him, called me and police, patrol police caught guy -
- prosecutor dismissed case
- judge dismissed case, guy is free
in 2004 i was cheated on invoice
i payed for product and i didn't get it, case was dismissed too
in 2003 my previous employer do not payed me for my work, case was also dismissed
in 2009 my friend was cheated on allegro (polish eBay) and case was also dismissed, instead of it, Police wanted to "look for piracy" on my friend's PC !!!
can you imagine ? you come to police station, ask for help "officer, i was cheated on ebay"
policeman says "we need to check all correspondence, please give us your PC"
guy comes with pc (why ??? all messages are on server ???) and police starts to check his version of Windows ???
"znikoma szkodliwość społeczna czynu" - "low criminal danger" < this is often used by PL courts and prosecutors to have free time in job :/
when someone will steal from you 240 PLN, none of policeman will take action, why ?
because "poniżej 250 zł, znikoma szkodliwość społeczna" < belowe 250 PLN (60 EU) our law prescribes it as "low danger" and do not hunt it !
my father was probably killed , his body was found 3 days after he was last time seen in work, but state of decomposition was like 2 weeks (i have 3 doctors in family, thats why i know, cause they had seen photos and forensic report and they claimed, just like Police detective that it looks like 2 weeks stage) , and internal organs were so rotten that forensic wrote in report "i cannot prescribe reason of death, internal organs are too decomposed"
and ... this case was also "dismissed" and i never found what happened to my father (i can only suppose) but one guy suddenly "has his testimony" and i lost house (i am the only son, so i should get house, but... someone has it and already won case in court)
if it was Belarus, guy who suddenly appeared with testimony act after strange death - would be suspected of murder, in PL ? nooo, all is okay because he is rich (he left territory of Poland, he is abroad and me ? i lost house),
media will not wrote about it, because it is against law system "they" built

this is Sudayev difference between PL and Belarus
when someone steal, in Belarus he will be in prison for sure
in PL thief will give bribe

thats why they so much hate Belarus in our media, cause in Belarus there is order
and our rich business leaders are not like rich people in west who build money generation after generation leading companies
our rich people get money from crime, so those who rule hate clear law, law that cannot be interpreted in 2 ways
also our rich are from ex-commie leaders families (built big money in 1989/1990)
thats why sometimes people from US do not understand our hate to rich, cause in their country (US) money is from hard work, in our country money is from crime (including strange privatizations) or being son of commie party or commie secret police (keeping dollars in 1988, when it was forbidden for usual people, who lost all due to 1000% inflation 1988-1991)

law must be clear without possibility to interpretative

btw Sudayev, i read on internet (i don't know if it is true) that already some people asked for asyl in Belarus , sounds strange and weird (i do believe in property protection by law, haha, Hans Ludwig would be surprised, that in this issue i am much more close to Republicans than to others, but its too much offtopic)

for sure (back on topic)
they cut Russian tv stations from my cable , so i lost "information from second side" now i have only information "from one side" (pro-US, liberal)
and for sure it is opening gate to 1984

[-Martin-]

This man obviously took some wrong pills.

I wouldn't say that he took the wrong pill, more like he took money (bribe) from the wrong people. It's actually pretty easy to get a deal signed in Eastern Europe... All you have to do is pay an attractive sum of money and the door is open to you. Therefore it makes sense that they wanted to keep quiet about this and sign it behind our backs. If they were really serious and legitimate about this, the first thing they would/should do is open up a debate.

TV stations are also bribed or owned by pro-Western people. In the Czech Republic we have TV Nova which spills out enough American propaganda to make you wanna throw up after five minutes. That means they will cover up or lie about anything they need them to.


America can choose to decline with the dinosaurs or it can come into the 21st century.

All these big corporations keep the US running and people in power, especially the media industry is important for obvious reasons so naturally the government will go down their path until letting them go outweighs the benefits.


i have family in Belarus (my roots are on pre-1939 Polish territory, now Lithuania/Belarus) and i know what my family tells my "don't belive in your tv, we do not have as bad life as your tv tells Poles"

I’m half Ukrainian and I’ve been to Belarus :smile: I can tell you right now that everything you see in Western TV about that country is absolute pathetic bullshit, and the “poor citizens” that talk shit on TV… bribed… all of them have been bribed and turned in to dolls. That’s the reason why I haven’t been watching TV for at least 6 years now.

[vilas]

I’m half Ukrainian and I’ve been to Belarus I can tell you right now that everything you see in Western TV about that country is absolute pathetic bullshit, and the “poor citizens” that talk shit on TV… bribed… all of them have been bribed and turned in to dolls. That’s the reason why I haven’t been watching TV for at least 6 years now.

many of my friends were visiting Belarus "too see how it looks" and they were very surprised too "how ? in tv i told like there is poverty and regime"
i am 25% Russian, 25% Lithuanian, 50% Pole :P instead, but before 1939 there was Polish territory, half of family left there (now it is Lithuanian/Belarus border)
but my family joined army and fought (including division 304 in Great Britain battle, where brother of my gramma fought too and he is in credits in movie Battle for Britain from 60s, thats why now i am in Warsaw, normally i would be writing from Minsk of Vilnius )
thats why i know that media must be free, internet must be free
we cannot rely only one side of information !!!
(guess who lead our cable tv ? upc, foreign concern)

such "piracy" acts are trying to forbid "other views" and "other materials" and force our gov. to make law against us (our pockets)

why Microsoft software is so expensive in poor countries ?
why it is cheaper in UK, US, Germany ? why ? and they say they want fight piracy ?
why i have to pay 10-20% more than German (who earns 6 times more than me )

http://www.skapiec.pl/site/cat/3006/filtr/_0_21583_21587_0_52175_0_0_0_0_0/pop

1 PLN is 25 eurocents
4 PLN is 1 EU

compare it to yours US, DE prices

i remember discussion year ago, when one German was very very surprised seeing our prices, cause he had for 70 EUro things (operating system, licension box, not oem), that i have to pay 300
he earns 3000 EU or 5000 EU, i earn 500
for him operating system is 5% of montly salary, for me it is 50%

piracy cannot be win, unless people will not be earning bigger money and prices won't go down in poor countries

how much of people is enough honest to buy legal soft instead of eat or paying for flat ?
you can fight piracy , when customer has money to buy things
i know how much people in my country use torrents, i know how much of them would prefere to buy it... if they could afford
PIPA, SOPA, ATAPA, whatever name of act will only make "majority of population criminals in the name of Sony, BMG, Hollywood, Microsoft" etc.
and another problem - will be quoting
i repeat myself for third time, do you realize that such "ip" can allso affect any interview in media ?
any quote , etc.

when politician will lie in interview - you will not be able to use part of this interview to prove it, cause "station X do not allow to use interview, cause it is our ip"

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=2093220&postcount=204

my post about it

[-Martin-]

why Microsoft software is so expensive in poor countries ?
why it is cheaper in UK, US, Germany ? why ? and they say they want fight piracy ?
why i have to pay 10-20% more than German (who earns 6 times more than me )


This is capitalism now :tongue: corporations like Microsoft exist because they get money from consumers, and because Microsoft is a worldwide company it sells products everywhere in the world.

This means that they have to keep their product prices more or less the same in every country regardless of the minimum wage and all other social factors, because if Windows 7 costs £170 here in the UK and £30 in Eastern Europe, what will happen?

Everyone will buy it there and nobody will buy it the UK, this will mean less money for Microsoft which won’t be good for Microsoft because they need this money to exist and expand.

So this is why minimum wages in Eastern Europe are still somewhere in Communist times but goods cost the same as they do in the West. I remember a few months ago that business man came on TV and he said something along the lines "I'm a business man, my job is to make money, I don't care about politics or anything else".

The secret in capitalism to get something done is to turn off the tap with money.

You have to agree, what will any company or the government get from raising minimum wages? Nothing… It doesn’t matter to a company if they sell 10 CD’s for £10 or one that costs £100. The only thing we can do is stop buying the CD’s, if we do that the company and government will have no other option but to listen :wink_o:

People don’t realise this because they fooled us in to thinking that we are just pawns on a chess board, but in fact we are the most powerful on the planet and if we all act as a single body we can shut down any business man whenever we want without even leaving the comfort of our own sofa (literally). :smile:

The answer to stopping these anti-piracy laws is simple: Boycott anyone who supports them.

Don’t go to cinemas, don’t buy movies, don’t buy stuff on itunes.

Surely you can live without these things for a few months or years, but can you and the generations after you live oppressed for decades to come?

[vilas]

nope, in PL prices of soft are bigger than US

if i will buy US Windows - according to EULA i will be pirate, cause US windows in only in US (but it is cheaper than PL windows with PL language)


if we do that the company and government will have no other option but to listen
no my friend, no
they will send policeman and judge "if you not want to work like slave to buy our product, you go to jail"
thats why they want to make such law, that will FORCE you to buy
now you can download something for free less legal , when you choose "to eat or to have it"
in future (they are preparing for us) "you will have to work twice more to buy it"
and we will become slaves "working all day long just to have something" (cause without PC you will not get job, it is essential in many jobs, so you must know PC, you must know Windows, you must know MsOffice, not OpenOffice or Linux )

[Sudayev]

Hehe I agree with you vilas :D There is also one difference - The Belarussian regime is pro-Belarusian while Polish regime led by Donald Tusk and his gangster clique is anti-Polish, Pro-Euro, Pro-German.

Anyways guys lets speak about oppressive bills like SOPA,PIPA and ACTA. Let's stay away from major discussions how much sucks here in our countries.

I'll try to inform about current developments regarding ACTA signing in Poland

Meanwhile I heard few interview with the officials. They speak the same - We were not hacked - that's just a site malfunctioning due to high traffic (Prime Minister Donaldo Tusk is such a huuuuuuge beacon of light almost like Kim Jong Il The Great that everyone want to enter his site and pay their tribute!). They also speak of how good they are prepared to repel the hacker attacks HA HA HA.

They also stated that the president is allowed introduce martial law when there is a cyberspace breach? They say all NATO countries have such rule. Ain't this too much ?

[vilas]

They also stated that the president is allowed introduce martial law when there is a cyberspace breach? They say all NATO countries have such rule. Ain't this too much ?

yeah, another martial law after 1981 ?
first generals who made martial law were free by court (and only one who was arrested was Adam Slomka, ex-opositionist, sone of mother killed during martial law) for "making rumors in court"
ye, ye, next martial law in PL
some time ago i was criticizing US people here for their guns-law attitude, now i fully understand that it would keep democracy in such situation
now we are force-less, helpless, they have police, army, courts, money, we have just truth
i have in block 2 lawyers, all get "permission for gun", while i can't :/
seems like "all system keepers" are armed, all "against" not,
in Egypt people won cause they had guns, in Czech Republic and in Hungary people chosen in election wise governments , we don't have free media, so 40% of 48% who votes (52% not vote) chose ... what they have chosen (and now many of them regrets)
many years i was not realizing this :(
btw. is it true that Polish (and most ex-commie countries, except Czech) has most strict guns law in Europe ?
we cannot make mutiny, we have only bare hands
i just cannot imagine such corporations ass-lick like proposals of martial law
in 1981 Reagan supported us, who would do it now ? Putin ? history irony ? i doubt
noone
and when you will be hunted for piracy, you will get sentence, noone will give you job after
so it is corporations regime "obey, work harder, buy our products"

[STALKERGB]

Murdoch is desperate for he knows his business and his power are on the wane.

Interestingly though, both Sky and the BBC have internet TV solutions ready to go once there is a larger take up of them. The BBC's at least looks something similar to iPlayer. Basically will scrap the TV license and have a Pay on Demand system instead.


EMI has shut down due to bankruptcy and others will follow.

Pretty sure EMI hasn't shut down. In fact aren't they filing a lawsuit against Ireland at the moment lol?

[vilas]

few US corporations try to force law that will make whole world their own

do you remember Alien movies ? do you remember AVP games?
was there a STATE ? a NATION ? no, there was Weyland Utani corporation,

simply few dozens of people from 2-3 countries want to have earth globe for own
few permiles want to rule 7 bilions of human beings and make them slaves again (not formal slaves, but credit slaves, customers slaves etc. cause if you cannot afford something which you must have, you take credit to buy it )
but don't say to me bullshit "man can live without Microsoft"
try to get job, when you not know MsOffice or Windows,
when you know only Linux, you will not get job, cause every company has Windows, Excel, Word
if you are not hand-worker but office-worker, you must know it and have it (i say about all educated people) otherwise your job application CV will be in trash can
so since the young age you are forced to have some products
those products cost and to buy them legal many people are/will be forced to take another bank credit and work
it is just one of examples (operating system, office software) , but we have many such examples
if those act enter life, than "one or another american company" will make FBI arrest people in other part of globe for downloading something , which they had to have (to get job)

is it not slavery ? for me it is

they made crisis to give banks owners extra money
now when people are down (due to crisis) they want force people even more "take another credit"
soon people will be bank-slaves (it is domino effect, when you take credit, you have less money for other things, soon you have to take credit to pay another credit to pay another credit)

few banks + few companies will poses the globe, 1 permile will force 99.9 % of population to obey, i hope that majority will stand against
cause real democracy is "will of majority" not "will of minority"

[solarriors]

SOPA is simply censuration,for example to prevent US people talking about revolutions just as it' the case now.Everywhere in the world people knows we have to change from liberalism economy but the most powerful people don't want this.They ask the corrupt US government to block sites with new ideas.This is censure, and it's not only for forbidding illegal downloads but it will be the same as Iran,China and many other "communist" for American (even if they're not) ! So you want USA to be like a dictatorship of corporation !!!! Hell NOOO !
;)

[walker]

Interestingly though, both Sky and the BBC have internet TV solutions ready to go once there is a larger take up of them. The BBC's at least looks something similar to iPlayer. Basically will scrap the TV license and have a Pay on Demand system instead...

Hi all

In reply to STALKERGB
In the past there were vast Barriers to Entry to the distribution of all data based media, TV, Film, Music etc.

You Required a Broadcast medium, VHF, UHF, aerials on roofs, chains of broadcast attenas, vast offices to run it all, Satellites, Space launch vehicle slots, dishes, I know I used to work in it. TV in the UK closes down its last analogue broadcasts this year and digital has taken over. This means that you have many more channels to receive your media on the methods the data of each program gets to you have proliferated.

Murdoch was a major investor in those old fashioned limited channels of distribution and now he is stuck with them and desperately trying to sell them. Internet based distribution of TV, Film and Music are wiping him and his old technology out. He has gone from being the biggest source of media on the old Broadcast media to being a bit part player on the Internet providing what is thought by most to be the worst Internet offering there is, I have never used it and I do not know anyone that does. When compared to the big Internet players of the likes of Megaupload it is not even in the same ballpark. And that is what all this is about.

You are watching the Dinosaurs Death Throws.

The Artists who create TV programs are leaving Sky in droves and setting up their own media distribution channels and distributing world wide at a fraction of the costs they were having to pay the Murdoch empire for its antiquated tech, keeping the advertising money and pay per view all for them selves.

I and most of my friends rarely watch broadcast TV. I tend to watch 90% of my TV via broadband and it comes from all over the world. I dip in and out of it when I want, pausing it, rewinding it, fast forwarding it, as I need. Yes I have to pay for some Channels, but I used to do that before, its just now it cheaper and I get to watch it when I want to and I am not paying through the nose locked into a monthly charged two year contract when I only want to watch one series, or like My Dad paying for the Sports Channel only for Sky to split the Channel into 3 and move all the stuff he is interested in on to the other new channels, and then being forced to pay another higher subscription for those too.

With the New Internet TV Boxes it just got way easier. HDMI in 1080P via an Android Box with Ice Cream sandwich or whatever it gets updated to next, and it costs less than 100 UK pounds. And virtually every New TV for sale is offering as standard.

Nobody needs Sky or it sky high monthly contracts, and its dodgy scams any more.

It is a full scale open capitalist market. And that is what Murdoch and his Ilk fear most. We do not have to go through their turn styles any more.

I think Murdoch's whole business will be dead within 3 to 5 years just a brand name adjunct sold at a knock down price to some New Media company who understands the tech, like Megaupload or any of the tens and hundreds of other new distribution channels using a vast range of tech to distribute and monetise the media. Ask around the Blood is in the water for Murdoch's empire and the Piranhas are circling, people are already calling it a takeover target.

Read this article from Forbes then you will understand:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2012/01/18/the-story-behind-rupert-murdochs-rants-about-google-and-sopa/

Kind Regards walker

[-Martin-]

Thanks for the explanation walker :smile: I completely agree with you.

You said that you used to work in the media industry so you must have a very good understanding of this, so what do you think will happen with megaupload? Will they stick it on them and shove them in the slammer or will they get out of it and put megaupload back on line?

[batto]

TV stations are also bribed or owned by pro-Western people. In the Czech Republic we have TV Nova which spills out enough American propaganda to make you wanna throw up after five minutes. That means they will cover up or lie about anything they need them to.

Well, I wouldn't take TV Nova as an example (because... you know, nobody watches it :P, expcet girls watching "Ordinace v Ruzove Zahrade"). Czech Television (state television) news is exellent example. One example: On the 10th anniversary of 9/11 they also covered "conspiracy theories" (I'm actually a truther). There's a a documentary called "Loose Change" (which has now 3rd revision) first created in 2005 covering reminding all the "mysteries". They (Czech TV) instead aired "9/11: The Conspiracy Files" which is documentray created by BBC in 2007 with evident goal to discredit anyone who dare to raise any question. Also in Hyde Park (an 1 hour talk show on current events) they invited "conspiracy theories specialist" which was also an astrologer (predicting woman periods from stars or something like that) so 60% of the interview focused on his astrology skills. So in the end it created impression that all who question official version are actually complete retads. Occupy Wallstreet has like 1 mention? And of course USA presidental elections 2012 coverage goes like: "So we have 1 minute left. There's also Ron Paul. He's unelectable. Ye, he's unelectable. Thanks for watching". I rather eat pro-Russian propaganda of RT.

[Sudayev]

Polish prime min. Tusk has a daughter and she runs a blog dedicated to fashion and all this girl crap. She has the best coverage in media belonging to ITI group which is privately own company favouring Tusk regime (ruling party, but thats mutual story btw). Onet.pl sports her blog at the title page, while TVN (tv) shows her creation while doing ooohs and ahhs over her style. Both she and her boyfriend like spend taxpayer money by ordering both govt limo's and airplane for trips all over the place.

http://www.makelifeeasier.pl/

Someone will update her webpage very soon leaving a proper message for her dad, Comrade Tusk.

Polish president's page,Polish DOD, Ruling party website, Police, Polish FBI, Internal Security Agency, Justice, Polish Secret Service - are down
update: euro parliament site down

Do you remember this regime speaker I was telling you few posts earlier? The one who commented the attack in Poland - not an attack just increased traffic in prime minister website! There's a hell lot of traffic on his webstie too haha:D http://pawelgras.pl/ - down

damn! that's so massive!!

[walker]

Hi all

Looks like Anonymous are getting serious they just nuked the CBS and Universal web sites. :eek:
http://gizmodo.com/5878238/anonymous-deleted-cbscom/

How will such companies survive in an increasingly hostile internet market?

I can see their shareholders slapping their boards around for allowing this to happen and making all their customers so angry.

And all because they locked up this guy:
http://gizmodo.com/5877987/the-best-worst-photos-of-megauploads-kim-dotcom

Kind Regards walker

[Sudayev]

CBS and Universal are still standing firm

[Tonci87]

They are back again. Wow never expected such a killing spree from Anonymous

[Sudayev]

Anonymous downs government, music industry sites in largest attack ever
http://rt.com/usa/news/anonymous-doj-universal-sopa-235/

[walker]

Hi all

Who are the Named and Shamed? Mugshots included.
http://projects.propublica.org/sopa/

Kind Regards walker

[-Martin-]

I love Anonymous, great respect for them, it goes to show that no matter how big and scary a corporation or government looks there is always something that can be done against them if only you have the will and knowledge.

I'm glad that this happened because if I told anyone only a few months ago that the US government represses freedom of speech, democracy and human rights I would get ridiculed and labelled a communist, as I often did.

But now you got your proof that this is in fact true, and I've noticed that a lot of people have given up their old views now and united over this issue. Which is a good thing, keep it up :wink_o: What the US government has accused so many of has now returned to their own plate, it’s going to be interesting to watch how this escalates.

Also thanks Sudayev for posting the news :smile:

EDIT: I love how the BBC is keeping quiet about this matter, I haven’t seen shit from them today about this at all.

[Tonci87]

Same thing in Germany. I've seen some coverage about the criminal mastermind and founder of megaupload who has been arrested (ridiculous BS) but no coverage about anonymous activities at all. They must think that we all don't know how to use the internet...

memebase.cheezburger.com/verydemotivational/5688117504

[F2k Sel]

Filesonic is all but shut down now as well, you can only access your own files.

RIP file hosting sites.

[solidsnake2384]

Filesonic did that to themselves apparently.