Manual startup procedure ?

[OMAC]

As I mentioned in my last post in the main preview thread, certain cockpit buttons are functional, apparently allowing for a manual startup procedure (MSP) in which one does not use the "Engines On (auto)" option in the menu. Is the MSP implemented yet? If so, I cannot get it to work.

What I think it is:

1) batteries on
2) starter on
3) after a few seconds, throttle to idle option
4) starter off

5) then I want to "initiate warmup," but I don't know if that involves just waiting or what.

- How do I know when the warmup period is over? A gauge?

6) Use Q to slowly put thrust to max ?

I cannot get enough power using the above - even when thrust is at max, I only get about 1 meter off the ground. Usually I then roll over. Maybe I have to have thrust at max AND use analog throttle to get collective to max? I'm using keyboard/mouse only.

Any ideas?

[NeMeSiS]

Without checking since i am not at home:
Barries on
Starter on
Throttle to idle
Throttle to full
Once the RPM is high enough (dont know how much, i just wait till ~5000) thrust to max, starter off and batteries off.

You can probably turn off the starter once the engine has started properly, though i am not really sure when that is. :p

[OMAC]

Thank you. I'll give that a shot.

------------------------------

OK, I got it. I was unaware of additional commands available on the stick. There's throttle to idle, throttle to max, and throttle off. Good to know.

Mouse over buttons and stick:

1) batteries on
2) starter on
3) after a few seconds, throttle to idle option (on stick below starter)
4) starter off after ignition
5) batteries off (still have to test this)
6) wait until RPM stabilizes at around 70%.
7) throttle to max on stick

Optional:

8) Autotrim "on" - although it already is (BIS should fix this!!)
9) Autotrim off - now autotrim is really off

10) Thrust (Q) to max - liftoff
11) Left trim (X) to stabilize rightward rotation
12) Manual trim set
13) gain some altitude
14) Go, baby, go (W). Gain speed as quickly as possible.

Optional with future dream release: ;)

15) locate enemy
16) power on dual M134 miniguns
17) select armor piercing or incendiary ammo
18) initiate ammo feed system
19) arm weapons
20) destroy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ7cTI623Vg

:681:

(just kidding - been playing too much A2/CO - my brain is warped)

[Max Power]

He means throttle. Hold left alt look at the collective lever. The throttle is the rotating handle. You have a user action there to set it to off, idle, or full.

[OMAC]

Yes, MaxP, I just found that out and edited the above post. Thanks anyway. All is good now. By the time the real ToH comes out, I sure won't need a manual, that's for sure.

[Big Dawg KS]

Hmm, for the most part I've found the batteries and starter completely useless. I figured I wasn't doing it right, but I still got the engine started with just the throttle and that's all I needed. :rolleyes:

[OMAC]

They worked fine for me.

--------------------------

On a real helo, how does one really do "throttle to idle"? Is it a switch, or does one rotate a handle or apply pressure to a lever on the left stick?

I am quite unsure as to the difference between "thrust" (Q/Z) and throttle. I know that the command for "analog" throttle is misnamed - should be collective. So, what does the real throttle do versus the "thrust" commands? Are they the same in real life?

Just trying to learn about helos and ToH. Until ToH preview, I didn't know JACK about helos (other than A2 CO helos), as I am sure my posts make abundantly clear.

[Big Dawg KS]

They worked fine for me.

I'm sure they do; what I was trying to say is that I haven't found them to be needed. I'm not really sure what they're supposed to do though... since I've always been able to start the engine/rotors without them.

[Mr. Charles]

Maybe the engine will take damage, if you turn it on with just the throttle. This is after all, just a preview.

[NeMeSiS]

Hmm, for the most part I've found the batteries and starter completely useless. I figured I wasn't doing it right, but I still got the engine started with just the throttle and that's all I needed. :rolleyes:

This is something i believe without being able to check. First time i played i just guessed what i had to do and kept that procedure. Guess you can just take off anyway, maybe the real startup procedure hasnt been properly implemented yet.

[OMAC]

Do you mean that you can go right to Throttle to idle without using batteries and starter?

Or do you mean using Engine On (auto/debug)?

[Big Dawg KS]

Do you mean that you can go right to Throttle to idle without using batteries and starter?

Yep. On another (perhaps related) note, I've also noticed that without touching anything the rotors sometimes spin very slowly even with everything off... not sure what that's about.

[OMAC]

Hmm. Maybe it's the wind? Or a bug? I don't know.

[nightsta1ker]

I found it's close enough to being accurate, but there seems to be a few bugs. In a real turbine, you turn the battery switch on, hold the starter, watch the N1 (gas producer) rise to about 13% (this basically means the first set of fans in the engine are turning fast enough to provide the right amount of air and pressure to get a proper ignition) then you introduce fuel by cracking the throttle, If all goes well, the engine lights and you get that nice roar and watch your gauges climb. If temperature limits are not exceeded then the pilot realeases the starter at about 60% N1 and the engine is self sustaining from there.

I found in game that holding the starter alone will completely start the engine without the introduction of fuel.

[OMAC]

nightsta1ker,

As a real pilot, you will know:

Is "+/- thrust" (Q/Z keys) the same as manually applying throttle in a real helo?

I asked this before:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1972682&postcount=7

[nightsta1ker]

nightsta1ker,

As a real pilot, you will know:

Is "+/- thrust" (Q/Z keys) the same as manually applying throttle in a real helo? In real life, is the throttle a lever on the left stick that you

I asked this before:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1972682&postcount=7

There are two controls that are related to rotor speed blade pitch angle (lift) and they are combined and need to be used together. The collective is the lever on the pilots left side. He controls the pitch of all of the blades simultaneously by raising or lowering this lever. The throttle is a twist grip on the collective. The pilot uses this to directly control Engine RPM and also Rotor RPM. However, due to aerodynamic forces such as coning due to lift, induced drag created by lift and coriolis effect that happens to the rotor system when the blades cone, the Rotor RPM fluctuates as the controls are manipulated. Almost all helicopters have a correlator which rolls throttle in the appropriate direction with up and down collective, however, it's not precise and the pilot needs to make small adjustments to keep the RPM in the green. In addition to the correlator, you may also have a governor which controls the RPMs for the pilot, reducing his workload.

For the turbine ship that is represented in Take On, the use of the throttle is really quite simple. It is used for the purposes of starting, shutting down, or idling the engine. The Governor takes care of the rest in normal flight.

There is no selectable axis for controlling the throttle that I have found, only the collective, which is all you REALLY need. However, it would be nice to be able to properly simulate starting and shutting down the ship. The throttle function in game currently has two positions, full throttle, and throttle idle. In reality there are three basic positions that concern the pilot, Full, Idle and OFF. On start, Fuel is initially off until the starter brings the N1 up to the right speed for start, then fuel is introduced by cracking the throttle to Idle. Then once the start sequence is finished and the engine is running independently the throttle is rolled on to full (or to wherever the governor takes it to give you 100% RRPM). On shutdown, the pilot brings the throttle to Idle for the allotted cool down time (usually 2 minutes) and then closes the throttle, cutting off fuel to the engine, which of course shuts it down.

It's SLIGHTLY more complicated than I am describing it, but I am trying to keep it simple so everyone understands the basic concepts. IMHO getting the CONCEPTS right is alot more important than getting all the DETAILS right. Details can come later, but they will not be easy to implement unless the basic concepts are understood. Make sense?

[OMAC]

nightsta1ker, you are the man. Thank you very much for the excellent info! :bounce3:

[nightsta1ker]

nightsta1ker, you are the man. Thank you very much for the excellent info! :bounce3:

:cool:

[OMAC]

OK, I got it. I was unaware of additional commands available on the stick. There's throttle to idle, throttle to max, and throttle off. Good to know.

However, as I wrote above in this thread, the throttle currently has 3 positions, including a "Throttle to Closed" function.

[nightsta1ker]

Hmm... When I scroll my mouse over it I only see two. I will look it over more carefully. Thanks OMAC! Out of curiosity, does closing the throttle shut the engine down?

[OMAC]

Yes, I think so. Upon touchdown while holding "brake" (min collective), I select "Throttle to Idle" (perhaps not necessary), and then "Throttle to Closed." If you find out different, or know of another way to shut the engine off (other than "Engine off (auto)"), please let me know.

[nightsta1ker]

Yes, I think so. Upon touchdown while holding "brake" (min collective), I select "Throttle to Idle" (perhaps not necessary), and then "Throttle to Closed." If you find out different, or know of another way to shut the engine off (other than "Engine off (auto)"), please let me know.

Right now I am frustratedly trying to upload my latest video to youtube with my dodgy internet connection (I pay for High Speed but I get intermittent garbage, perhaps my settings are not maximized or something. I have already had them come out to check the wires once and they supposedly found and fixed the problem.) When I get some time I will check it out and get back to you.

[OMAC]

Great. What ISP do you use? Is the new video the one with your mike connected so we can hear your commands and training of your recruit?

[Mr. Charles]

I always set the throttle to idle, when i landed, then to off. After this I engage the rotor break (behind you at the center frame).

[OMAC]

Ah ha! So there's an operable rotor brake? Cool.

Good find, Mr. Charles!

[CarlGustaffa]

For the MD 500C:
Preflight check, part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMX5s7enZT4)
Preflight check, part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pYxMc6zF5Q)
Preflight check, part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSo3U3L57H4)
Preflight check, part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0SZveDaKSk)
Preflight check, part 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8caHBr7RDZk)
Preflight check, part 6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNkWWlBc5hc)
Prestart checks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SAwKaD1kf8)
How to start + Limitations (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KVA3GXiK2s)
Actual startup and takeoff (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE56Nf6lsSQ)
MD 500 Turbine shutdown procedure (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liiJmosHP-Q)

and a whole bunch of other helicopter related videos, much related to training.

Now, I noticed the guy saying "now let's do the preflight checklist, in case you forgot something". And I thought this preflight was on the extreme side even compared to a GA plane daily inspection routine. So, was he performing preflight checks or a more comprehensive DI? And I realize our checks will be not that thorough for obvious reasons :p

[OMAC]

Man, this forum is getting better and better. Those vids are prime training material. I never thought I would learn so much about helos, and enjoy myself while doing it.

[Archosaurusrev]

I don't know about you guys but the way I do it is.

1 Batteries on.
2 Starter on.
3 wait a bit then throttle to idle.
4 started + batteries off then throttle to full.
5 Fly normally.

[[DirTyDeeDs]-Ziggy-]

I always set the throttle to idle, when i landed, then to off. After this I engage the rotor break (behind you at the center frame).

Heh. I didnt even notice that brake there! thanks!

I am curious about its function in this wip preview.
I boarded a chopper into the pilots seat, and the rotor blades began to turn slightly before any controls were pressed. I switched rotor brake ON, and the slight turning stopped.
However, I am able to take off and land with this rotor brake ON. It didn't limit the helicopters movement abilities, should it have?

[Liquidpinky]

-Ziggy-;1974914']Heh. I didnt even notice that brake there! thanks!

I am curious about its function in this wip preview.
I boarded a chopper into the pilots seat, and the rotor blades began to turn slightly before any controls were pressed. I switched rotor brake ON, and the slight turning stopped.
However, I am able to take off and land with this rotor brake ON. It didn't limit the helicopters movement abilities, should it have?

You would probably burn it out after a while, like leaving a handbrake on while driving a car.
You will find it that it will reduce the revs a bit, especially while in idle but full throttle is still flight capable.

[Archosaurusrev]

Can someone post a picture of where that rotor break is?

I can't find it anywhere!

[nightsta1ker]

Rotor brakes in helicopters are usually accompanied by a warning light in the cockpit and override the circuit breaker so that the starter will not turn when the rotor brake is engaged.

[OMAC]

Can someone post a picture of where that rotor break is?

I can't find it anywhere!

It's on the roof of the cabin between the seats, against the rear wall. Look up and all the way to your right, towards the rotors.

[Wastelander]

I enjoy flying virtual Choppers.

The startup procedure for a Bell 206 provided in the DodoSim software that works with Microsoft Flight Simulator X seems realistic?

L7lIltOnzYM

5qn1g7q88-w

msbgdsTGzdQ

[OMAC]

Awesome. Thanks for posting. Controls are way cool, ultra-realistic, and high-res, but rendering, models, and environment are cheesy compared to BIS products. Going from TKoH to that is like going from A2/OA to Doom 2 or Half-Life 1.

[nightsta1ker]

I enjoy flying virtual Choppers.

The startup procedure for a Bell 206 provided in the DodoSim software that works with Microsoft Flight Simulator X seems realistic?

L7lIltOnzYM

5qn1g7q88-w

msbgdsTGzdQ

The Dodo is EXTREMELY realistic. That's how you start a Jet Ranger, and similar for most other single turbine helicopters. I have hundreds of hours flying the DodoSim 206 and it is the closest thing to being in a real helicopter that you can get on a home computer.

[Wastelander]

The Dodo is EXTREMELY realistic. That's how you start a Jet Ranger, and similar for most other single turbine helicopters. I have hundreds of hours flying the DodoSim 206 and it is the closest thing to being in a real helicopter that you can get on a home computer.

Now if 'Take On Helicopters' can emulate Sound, Actions and Feel of DODO into the game it would be most excellent :-)

[nightsta1ker]

So far, the only other sim that comes close to the realism of the Dodo 206 is Dreamfoil Creation's 206 for X-plane. Also pretty amazing. Every other attempt at realistic helicopter flight dynamics has fallen short. It's not an easy thing to simulate.

[sbsmac]

Out of interest, why _do_ helicopter (and, presumably, aircraft) startup sequences involve so much manual intervention? Surely a lot of the sequencing could be automated, leaving the pilot with a only a big red button labelled 'start' ? ;)

[Mr. Charles]

Maybe to have more control over the helo and all it's capabilities. I'd imagine it being like a car with manual transmission or automatic.With manual, you have much more control over the car, but it takes a little bit more practise to do so.

[Sundowner]

Actually it's because of their age ;)

Modern helicopters like EC135, MD902, etc. have very short startup procedure. In Bell 206, or Hughes 369 series, pilot have to manualy control the engines to prevent them from overheating as there is no FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control) that would do this for him. Plus every system has to be checked for faults. Some helicopters have really long pre-flight procedures (Mi-8 family for example), some have very short (CH-53), depends on how complex the machine is and how much automated it's systems are.

Here's full before engine startup procedure for a very complex, but modern rotorcraft, shouldn't be hard to gues which one ;)

1. Battery — ON/Checked
2. Center control panel — Set
a. Landing gear control panel — Checked
b. Flaps — AUTO
c. Nacelle control disable switches — Lights out.
3. Overhead control panel — Set
a. T-Handles — NORM
b. Fuel dump — OFF
c. Rotor brake — OFF
d. ECLs — OFF
e. ALE-47 — OFF
f. APU — STOP
g. Emergency oxygen switch — OFF
h. ARC-210 control — OFF
i. Cargo hook control panel — OFF
j. Lighting control panel — OFF.
4. External power — As required
5. Fire guard — Posted
6. Flight controls — Set
a. Controls — Centered
b. TCL — Full aft
c. Nacelle switches — Centered.
7. APU — RUN/ENGAGE
a. Displays — ON
b. APU — Engaged
c. MWGB oil pressure — Normal
d. Hydraulic pressures — Normal.
8. NAV alignment data — Set
a. LAND or SEA — Select
b. Preset position/Date/Time — Enter/Verify as
require.
9. NORMAL FLIGHT OPS — Select
10. ECS — Set
11. Power Steering — OFF
12. Nose lock — As required
13. AFCS — OFF
14. Nacelle B/U enable — OFF
15. FADECS — Switch
16. Cockpit lights — Set
17. Lamp test — TEST
18. Landing gear — Down/locked
19. Parking brake — Reset
20. External power — Disconnected
21. C/A summary — Checked
22. Present systems status — Checked
23. PFCS — Reset (as required)
24. MAINT DATA — Erase
25. BFWS — Flight ready
26. Avionics Power Select — As required
27. FUEL and O2N2 PFBIT — Initiate
28. Air refueling probe — Checked
29. Mission data — Loaded
30. Aircraft Initialization — Set
31. COMM — Set
32. Flight instruments — Checked
33. Interim power — Checked/OFF
34. O2N2 PFBIT — Complete
35. ECS and IPS (Wing) PFBIT — Initiate
36. External lights — Checked and set
37. Flight Controls — Checked
a. Nacelles/flight control surfaces — Clear
b. Flight controls — Centered
c. TCL — Full aft
d. Nacelles — 80 °
e. C/A Summary — Display/clear
f. FCS/HYD STAT — Display/clear
g. Longitudinal stick — Full forward, aft, center
h. Lateral stick — Full left, right, center
i. Directional pedals — Full left, right, center
j. Trim release — Check
k. Force trim — Check
l. TCL — Forward to 4-inch stop
m. TCL OTVL — Press/advisory posts
n. TCL — Overtravel limit
o. TCL — Full aft, friction set
p. TCL OTVL — Press/advisory out
q. TCL — Check 4-inch stop, then full aft
r. CONV ACT/HYD SYS C/As — None posted
s. L/R NAC CONT DSBL switches — Press
(1) DSBL lights — Illuminated
(2) L/R PLT NAC CONTR FAIL Caution —
Posted
(3) Master Alert and PFCS FAIL RESET —
Illuminated
t. Nacelles — Verify no response
u. L/R NAC CONT DSBL switches — Press to
clear
v. NACELLE B/U ENABLE switch — Press
(1) NACELLE B/U ENABLE light — Illuminated
(2) CRIT CVRSN ACTR FAULT Caution —
Posted
(3) MASTER ALERT and PFCS FAIL RESET
— Illuminated
(4) Primary conversion actuator segments —
Red
(5) Backup conversion actuator segments —
Green.
w. Nacelles — Verify response/no conversion actuator
C/As
x. NACELLE B/U ENABLE switch — Press
(1) NACELLE B/U ENABLE light — Off
(2) CRIT CVRSN ACTR FAULT Caution —
Cleared
(3) MASTER ALERT — Reset
(4) PFCS FAIL RESET — Self-clear
(5) Primary conversion actuator segments —
Green
(6) Backup conversion actuator segments —
Green.
y. Nacelles — Verify response/no CVRSN ACT
FAULTs/set 90 °.
38. FCS PFBIT — Conduct
a. Nacelles/flight control surfaces — Clear
b. Nacelles — 90 °
c. FLAPS — 0 °
d. AFCS — OFF
e. Controls — Centered
f. TCL — Full aft
g. PRES SYST STATUS — Check electrical and
FCS/HYD WRAs
h. FCS PFBIT — Initiate/complete
i. FLAPS — AUTO
j. AFCS — ON.
39. PFBITs — Complete
40. AVSS — Enable
41. Before Starting Engines Checklist — Complete.

And at this point we're ready to let loose some mechanical horses - engine startup checklist:

1. Pins, chocks, and ground wire — Removed and
stowed
2. Flight stations — “Check and set” (P, CP, FE, S)
a. Seat and harnesses — Adjusted
b. Pedals — Adjusted
c. ICS control panels and RFIS — Set.
3. Nacelles — 90 °
4. Fuel system — Set
a. Transfer valve — AUTO
b. Transfer pump — SUCTION
c. Tank isolation — Checked
d. AR/HIFR — OFF
5. FADECS — MATCHED
6. ROTOR BRAKE — OFF
7. EAPS and EXDEF — AUTO
8. Displays — Set
9. Area — Clear
10. Flight controls — Set
11. #2 engine — START
12. #2 ECL — FLY
13. #1 engine — START
14. APU — STOP
15. Jettison pins — Pulled
16. #1 ECL — FLY
17. EAPS — Open
18. Manual torque beep — Checked
19. ELS and IPS (Engine/Proprotor) PFBITs — Initiate
20. C/A Summary and Systems Status — Checked
21. PFBITs — Complete
22. STARTING ENGINES CHECKLIST — Complete.
Aaaaaand, we're almost ready to go :D

Many people wanted to have this aircraft in this game, but how many of those would want to go through all of that for every flight ? Well, I would :p

[OMAC]

Many people wanted to have this aircraft in this game, but how many of those would want to go through all of that for every flight ? Well, I would :p

Me too. Totally cool tech :cool: More complex the better. You could have a checklist window come up on the side of the screen that you'd have to go through. On easier difficulties it would all be auto.

---------- Post added at 07:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:22 AM ----------


Thank you. I'll give that a shot.

------------------------------

OK, I got it. I was unaware of additional commands available on the stick. There's throttle to idle, throttle to max, and throttle off. Good to know.

Mouse over buttons and stick:

1) batteries on
2) starter on
3) after a few seconds, throttle to idle option (on stick below starter)
4) starter off after ignition
5) batteries off (still have to test this)
6) wait until RPM stabilizes at around 70%.
7) throttle to max on stick

Optional:

8) Autotrim "on" - although it already is (BIS should fix this!!)
9) Autotrim off - now autotrim is really off

10) Thrust (Q) to max - liftoff
11) Left trim (X) to stabilize rightward rotation
12) Manual trim set
13) gain some altitude
14) Go, baby, go (W). Gain speed as quickly as possible.



Most of the above is no longer needed for Veteran (and Expert) flight using beta 82503/82767 with kb/mouse. Here are replacements:

1) batteries on
1.5) lights on
2) starter on
3) after a few seconds, throttle to idle option (on stick below starter)
4) starter off after ignition
5) batteries off
6) wait until RPM stabilizes at around 70%.
7) throttle to max on stick
8) hit collective - lift off
9) Go, baby, go (W). Gain speed as quickly as possible
10) Have fun

That's it. Q/Z no longer needed most of the time. Trim can be adjusted via small mouse movements, even on landing. "Manual trim set" hardly needed, either.

[4 IN 1]

Actually it's because of their age ;)

Modern helicopters like EC135, MD902, etc. have very short startup procedure. In Bell 206, or Hughes 369 series, pilot have to manualy control the engines to prevent them from overheating as there is no FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control) that would do this for him. Plus every system has to be checked for faults. Some helicopters have really long pre-flight procedures (Mi-8 family for example), some have very short (CH-53), depends on how complex the machine is and how much automated it's systems are.

Here's full before engine startup procedure for a very complex, but modern rotorcraft, shouldn't be hard to gues which one ;)

1. Battery — ON/Checked
2. Center control panel — Set
a. Landing gear control panel — Checked
b. Flaps — AUTO
c. Nacelle control disable switches — Lights out.
3. Overhead control panel — Set
a. T-Handles — NORM
b. Fuel dump — OFF
c. Rotor brake — OFF
d. ECLs — OFF
e. ALE-47 — OFF
f. APU — STOP
g. Emergency oxygen switch — OFF
h. ARC-210 control — OFF
i. Cargo hook control panel — OFF
j. Lighting control panel — OFF.
4. External power — As required
5. Fire guard — Posted
6. Flight controls — Set
a. Controls — Centered
b. TCL — Full aft
c. Nacelle switches — Centered.
7. APU — RUN/ENGAGE
a. Displays — ON
b. APU — Engaged
c. MWGB oil pressure — Normal
d. Hydraulic pressures — Normal.
8. NAV alignment data — Set
a. LAND or SEA — Select
b. Preset position/Date/Time — Enter/Verify as
require.
9. NORMAL FLIGHT OPS — Select
10. ECS — Set
11. Power Steering — OFF
12. Nose lock — As required
13. AFCS — OFF
14. Nacelle B/U enable — OFF
15. FADECS — Switch
16. Cockpit lights — Set
17. Lamp test — TEST
18. Landing gear — Down/locked
19. Parking brake — Reset
20. External power — Disconnected
21. C/A summary — Checked
22. Present systems status — Checked
23. PFCS — Reset (as required)
24. MAINT DATA — Erase
25. BFWS — Flight ready
26. Avionics Power Select — As required
27. FUEL and O2N2 PFBIT — Initiate
28. Air refueling probe — Checked
29. Mission data — Loaded
30. Aircraft Initialization — Set
31. COMM — Set
32. Flight instruments — Checked
33. Interim power — Checked/OFF
34. O2N2 PFBIT — Complete
35. ECS and IPS (Wing) PFBIT — Initiate
36. External lights — Checked and set
37. Flight Controls — Checked
a. Nacelles/flight control surfaces — Clear
b. Flight controls — Centered
c. TCL — Full aft
d. Nacelles — 80 °
e. C/A Summary — Display/clear
f. FCS/HYD STAT — Display/clear
g. Longitudinal stick — Full forward, aft, center
h. Lateral stick — Full left, right, center
i. Directional pedals — Full left, right, center
j. Trim release — Check
k. Force trim — Check
l. TCL — Forward to 4-inch stop
m. TCL OTVL — Press/advisory posts
n. TCL — Overtravel limit
o. TCL — Full aft, friction set
p. TCL OTVL — Press/advisory out
q. TCL — Check 4-inch stop, then full aft
r. CONV ACT/HYD SYS C/As — None posted
s. L/R NAC CONT DSBL switches — Press
(1) DSBL lights — Illuminated
(2) L/R PLT NAC CONTR FAIL Caution —
Posted
(3) Master Alert and PFCS FAIL RESET —
Illuminated
t. Nacelles — Verify no response
u. L/R NAC CONT DSBL switches — Press to
clear
v. NACELLE B/U ENABLE switch — Press
(1) NACELLE B/U ENABLE light — Illuminated
(2) CRIT CVRSN ACTR FAULT Caution —
Posted
(3) MASTER ALERT and PFCS FAIL RESET
— Illuminated
(4) Primary conversion actuator segments —
Red
(5) Backup conversion actuator segments —
Green.
w. Nacelles — Verify response/no conversion actuator
C/As
x. NACELLE B/U ENABLE switch — Press
(1) NACELLE B/U ENABLE light — Off
(2) CRIT CVRSN ACTR FAULT Caution —
Cleared
(3) MASTER ALERT — Reset
(4) PFCS FAIL RESET — Self-clear
(5) Primary conversion actuator segments —
Green
(6) Backup conversion actuator segments —
Green.
y. Nacelles — Verify response/no CVRSN ACT
FAULTs/set 90 °.
38. FCS PFBIT — Conduct
a. Nacelles/flight control surfaces — Clear
b. Nacelles — 90 °
c. FLAPS — 0 °
d. AFCS — OFF
e. Controls — Centered
f. TCL — Full aft
g. PRES SYST STATUS — Check electrical and
FCS/HYD WRAs
h. FCS PFBIT — Initiate/complete
i. FLAPS — AUTO
j. AFCS — ON.
39. PFBITs — Complete
40. AVSS — Enable
41. Before Starting Engines Checklist — Complete.

And at this point we're ready to let loose some mechanical horses - engine startup checklist:

1. Pins, chocks, and ground wire — Removed and
stowed
2. Flight stations — “Check and set” (P, CP, FE, S)
a. Seat and harnesses — Adjusted
b. Pedals — Adjusted
c. ICS control panels and RFIS — Set.
3. Nacelles — 90 °
4. Fuel system — Set
a. Transfer valve — AUTO
b. Transfer pump — SUCTION
c. Tank isolation — Checked
d. AR/HIFR — OFF
5. FADECS — MATCHED
6. ROTOR BRAKE — OFF
7. EAPS and EXDEF — AUTO
8. Displays — Set
9. Area — Clear
10. Flight controls — Set
11. #2 engine — START
12. #2 ECL — FLY
13. #1 engine — START
14. APU — STOP
15. Jettison pins — Pulled
16. #1 ECL — FLY
17. EAPS — Open
18. Manual torque beep — Checked
19. ELS and IPS (Engine/Proprotor) PFBITs — Initiate
20. C/A Summary and Systems Status — Checked
21. PFBITs — Complete
22. STARTING ENGINES CHECKLIST — Complete.
Aaaaaand, we're almost ready to go :D

Many people wanted to have this aircraft in this game, but how many of those would want to go through all of that for every flight ? Well, I would :p

Let me guess: V22?

[Sundowner]

Yes, that's Osprey checklist, pretty much the longest one of the western machines.

The eastern have longer, because every single circuit breaker have to be switched on, when on western, only some are switched off after the flight. Although pre-flight checks and start-up is not really longer time wise, as it is performed usually by the whole 3 men crew.

[Sundowner]

I wanted to show you guys how a preflight, and startup is done on estern helicopters, and it's not that easy to find a good video - all you can find is the startup if Nemeth Design Mi-17 for Flight Simulator 2004 - but that's one person flipping switches, plus the checklist is simplified there. The closest one to actually show you how crew works in that kind of helicopter is this one: The last flight of Mil Mi-14PS #1016 of Polish Navy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5PogpTWaMI

As you can see, the flight mechanic (equivalent of western Crewchief) sitting in the middle is very active in the cockpit during startup, the first 2 minutes shown are quite chopped, the whole process takes minimum 5 minutes with that SAR crew (starting up an ASW is not a race with time and someones fate), plus the "first start of the day" checks are made way before actual preflight and startup procedures.

[OMAC]

I wanted to show you guys how a preflight, and startup is done on estern helicopters, and it's not that easy to find a good video - all you can find is the startup if Nemeth Design Mi-17 for Flight Simulator 2004 - but that's one person flipping switches, plus the checklist is simplified there. The closest one to actually show you how crew works in that kind of helicopter is this one: The last flight of Mil Mi-14PS #1016 of Polish Navy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5PogpTWaMI

As you can see, the flight mechanic (equivalent of western Crewchief) sitting in the middle is very active in the cockpit during startup, the first 2 minutes shown are quite chopped, the whole process takes minimum 5 minutes with that SAR crew (starting up an ASW is not a race with time and someones fate), plus the "first start of the day" checks are made way before actual preflight and startup procedures.

Awesome. Last flight? Was it being retired?

[Sundowner]

Yes, it run out of life time - those are limited to 28 years of service. We had 3 of those - #5137 (the one in my sig) was the oldest one and retired in 2009, #1016 and #1013 went out of service last year. Those are being replaced by modified ASW variant - Mi-14PL (now known as PL/R) - there are 2 of those currently in service (#1009 and #1012).

We also had two more Mi-14PS but those were totaled - one crashed during practice night water landing on a lake, second one had engine failure, landed on sea, was abandoned by crew... then started up, and autopilot set to head to the shore on its own, although it run out of fuel and capsized (it's not a Sea King, it can't take off from water on one engine ;) ).

[OMAC]

That's too bad about the lost choppers. Who makes them, Mir, a Russian company? Who do you work for - Polish air search and rescue? Coast guard?

[Sundowner]

Russian Mil was making the Mi-14, but the Polish ones were last ones made in the early 1980s, so the original Search & Rescue variant (PS) is pretty much gone, only the ASWs (PL) are still flying in Poland, Cuba, Ethiopia, North Korea, Syria and Ukraine (Libya also had few in working condition, but were probably bombed to oblivion by NATO recently).

Those SAR helicopters belong to Polish Navy, we don't have Coast Guard per say, there is an maritime SAR agency, but they have no aviation assets (yet), and there's Border Guard, but their helicopters are used elsewhere. Polish Navy also have 7, much lighter W-3RM "Anaconda" helicopters for SAR work, so there is almost as many SAR-only helicopters as combat ones (3x SH-2G, 8x Mi-14PL) ;)
There are 3 Navy Air Bases on the Baltic coast, 2 of those have helicopters, EPDA (Darlowo) have all of the Mi-14s, one W-3RM, and one Mi-2 (for training, light utility), the EPKO (Babie Doly) operates the rest of the SAR W-3RM, ASW SH-2Gs, and utility W-3Ts, and Mi-17s (which are maintained in Darlowo).

As for my occupation, I'm currently a civilian contractor for Polish military, I work at the base from which the Mi-14 operate.

[_michal]

Mi-14 would make a perfect fit for Take On mod...

[Sundowner]

Silence ! I kill you!

What's with the Mi-14PS for FSX you supposed to make ? I even got sick and had to be on antibiotics to get you reference photos for it :D

[_michal]

I know, I know. Just saying. :)

[Braindrool]

Well I know it's just a game / sim. But I believe they said the heli in preview is based on the MD520. And I know for that the MD500 (different I know, but similiar probably) excluding preflight checks and since there are no hotstarts / cold starts or anything. All you need to do is Start battery, turn on starter, once you reach 12-15% RPM (Auto Start brings it to 20%, so I suppose that's alright) set throttle to idle. Once RPM reaches 58% (marked on lower right guage as red line) shut off starter. Watch the TOT (Turbine Outlet Temperature) and wait for it to warm up, cool down a bit, should be steady and not moving. Then set throttle to max. Alternatively you could look at Engine Oil Temperature, it should rise, slowly lower, then steady. Once you're on max throttle wait for RPM to go in the green zone on gauge, and you're set to fly.

[OMAC]

Well I know it's just a game / sim. But I believe they said the heli in preview is based on the MD520. And I know for that the MD500 (different I know, but similiar probably) excluding preflight checks and since there are no hotstarts / cold starts or anything. All you need to do is Start battery, turn on starter, once you reach 12-15% RPM (Auto Start brings it to 20%, so I suppose that's alright) set throttle to idle. Once RPM reaches 58% (marked on lower right guage as red line) shut off starter. Watch the TOT (Turbine Outlet Temperature) and wait for it to warm up, cool down a bit, should be steady and not moving. Then set throttle to max. Alternatively you could look at Engine Oil Temperature, it should rise, slowly lower, then steady. Once you're on max throttle wait for RPM to go in the green zone on gauge, and you're set to fly.

Awesome. I hope BIS programs this in. Key would be consequences if one does NOT follow the above precisely. If you know some of those consequences, please post them.

[Braindrool]

Well I'm just into helicopters, not a pilot (yet :D). But from what I know that while using the starter and adding fuel before %12 damages the engine, while later than %15 damages the starter, same as if the starter runs more than 60 seconds (which was in last update.) Also if a start is aborted, you should wait 60 seconds, if 2nd is aborted, wait 60 seconds, if the 3rd is aborted you should wait 30 minutes and try to find the problem. I've heard that if an engine is damaged from that you must pay to have the engine removed, taken apart, examined, and repaired if possible. Also people advise that you shut off all electronics / avionics before starting as you should give the starter as much power as needed or it might not reach it's potential. I hope the devs consider this and thanks for the reply :). Also I started a thread similiar to this one a while ago in the other TKOH forum section, feel free to post.

[Sundowner]

You can screw up the startup procedure in many ways, overheating the battery is one of those too, and helicopter that have battery compartment on fire is not considered airworthy ;)

The Hughes 369 family is very robust, and elegant design from engineering point of view. Very simple and well thought out (except for the MDD NOTAR inventions - problems with its steering system, and the MD600 is just pushing the initial design over its limits). So these shouldn't give any problems, but the bigger Bell 412-like, and the AW101-like would be totally different story.

[OMAC]

overheating the battery is one of those too, and helicopter that have battery compartment on fire is not considered airworthy ;)

Nice added touch to ToH - FLAME OUT! Use that extinguisher, and swearing allowed. "*%$%$**&&&@<hidden>@<hidden>#^^**, fried the battery again!"