View Full Version : Statistic tracking for arma 3
Just as the title says statistic tracking for arma 3.
Could potentially include the following:
Distance traveled by foot or by a certain vehicle
Time spent playing
Most used weapon
Most played game mode
Kills by weapon and vehicle
Deaths
Time spent in a certain vehicle
Accuracy
Times healed someone or your self
Most played on server
Hit percentages for certain body parts or vehicle areas (similar to AA3)
Smoke, frag, ect, grenades thrown
And so on....
Mr. Charles
Jun 5 2011, 01:22
No, even get rid of the damned scoreboard.
ArmAriffic
Jun 5 2011, 01:29
Depends, if stat tracking includes hours played then maybe, I want to see how many days I have spent armaing
Steakslim
Jun 5 2011, 01:51
Could also include things like shot accuracy and the whole bunch.
Windexglow
Jun 5 2011, 01:54
I think some things could be cool to track - rounds fired, average distance of (hit) shot, distance traveled, rounds that have landed near you, ectect. For both mission & grand total.
Antigoon
Jun 5 2011, 01:55
Hmm...not interested. Reminds me too much of a few other games, whose philosophy I'd really like Arma to steer clear of.
Arma is not about your kill to death ratio. It's about teamwork. It's about time kids learnt to play together as a team instead of for themself.
Arma is not about your kill to death ratio. It's about teamwork. It's about time kids learnt to play together as a team instead of for themself.
Statistics don't have to include K/D.... I for one am curious about how long I have spent on arma, or how far I have traveled by vehicle or foot, and so on... I don't care about K/D because it does not apply to arma... Maybe somehow I avoid the servers that just have lonewolf players, but I only see team based games.... So I think the kids on arma already do play as a team, or they are just non-existent.
Some flight sims have a pilot profile with your landings, carrier landings, AG and AA kills, ejects and deaths...It will also show a picture of you, your current rank insignia and meldals and it can be made that way that dead pilots can't be used in missions anymore.
Statistics don't have to include K/D.... I for one am curious about how long I have spent on arma, or how far I have traveled by vehicle or foot, and so on... I don't care about K/D because it does not apply to arma... Maybe somehow I avoid the servers that just have lonewolf players, but I only see team based games.... So I think the kids on arma already do play as a team, or they are just non-existent.
Well then update your first post; people think of statistics as in K/D ratio - other things like that. Almost every military or fps game that has statistics has K/D ratio - from AA3, MOH to COD.
Just because we have a number on a server doesn't mean they play as a team. The amount of pubbers that just wander past you when you're down or don't bother. And I personally don't care how much I have travelled, etc.
The only things that I can see not bad with this idea is bringing new people to the game. They'd be drawn in a little easier knowing the games they play have some similarities. And if they knew they were doing bad in one style of playing and the statistics wern't adding up then maybe they'd change that to be more team friendly or Arma friendly. :p
But seriously it will probably lead to an acheivement system which would make me want to break it.
Well then update your first post; people think of statistics as in K/D ratio - other things like that. Almost every military or fps game that has statistics has K/D ratio - from AA3, MOH to COD.
Just because we have a number on a server doesn't mean they play as a team. The amount of pubbers that just wander past you when you're down or don't bother. And I personally don't care how much I have travelled, etc.
The only things that I can see not bad with this idea is bringing new people to the game. They'd be drawn in a little easier knowing the games they play have some similarities. And if they knew they were doing bad in one style of playing and the statistics wern't adding up then maybe they'd change that to be more team friendly or Arma friendly. :p
But seriously it will probably lead to an acheivement system which would make me want to break it.
TBH I don't see how something as simple as statistic tracking would attract new players... I really don't see any cons for this IMO, but I am not discouraged by statistics for a game either... I see only one pro, the fact I can see what I have done...
Accuracy, rounds fired, hits, time played and k/d ratio (Just because CoD does it, doesn't make it evil.) are really the only stats that could be tracked and have some relevance. It could be a potentially good thing because it makes people not want to act like idiots by guilting them into shaping up.
Accuracy, rounds fired, hits, time played and k/d ratio (Just because CoD does it, doesn't make it evil.) are really the only stats that could be tracked and have some relevance. It could be a potentially good thing because it makes people not want to act like idiots by guilting them into shaping up.
We already have a leadership board in game and that incites people to get as many kills as possible. I hate playing with people like that - I can play a few hours without even firing a shot. I'd just hate to see it turns towards the COD crowd or type of gameplay with no sense of teamwork. You see how those games are, there is no guilt. But maybe shoving them in a huge map where the enemy isn't at 20m every game may shape them up to begin with.
Don't get me wrong, I spend long hours flying around aimlessly in the editor, and flying transport during missions. However, the people who are focused on getting kills are very subconscious of deaths. That will definitely make them more cautious. Furthermore, getting lots of kills does not necessarily mean they're a bad team player. I know when I'm boots on ground my kill count soars, even though I'm staying with the pack, watching my sectors and covering friendlies.
I think that the only time the kill chart should come up is in death and the end of the mission. That way players aren't focusing on k/d and on the task at hand. Not to mention, there is an exploit where you can see if you killed a target by bringing up the menu and watching the count rise.
Alwarren
Jun 5 2011, 06:49
I am opposed to kill/death tracking because it will encourage people even more to play for kills instead of objective, a fact that makes a lot of other games with similar scoreboards suffer from it.
You should have added a third option to this poll, something like
Yes, but only pure statistical values like "Time spent as driver", "time spent as pilot", and "Kilometers walked"
Rewarding kills over mission/game mode objectives will distract a lot of people from the objective.
I am opposed to kill/death tracking because it will encourage people even more to play for kills instead of objective, a fact that makes a lot of other games with similar scoreboards suffer from it.
You should have added a third option to this poll, something like
Yes, but only pure statistical values like "Time spent as driver", "time spent as pilot", and "Kilometers walked"
Rewarding kills over mission/game mode objectives will distract a lot of people from the objective.
I originally did not mention what could be included in the statistics, but as someone pointed out people usually just think about kills and deaths and not the other stuff I had in mind (which is what you are mentioning) I mentioned everything I could think of including stuff I do not care about....
You can already generate stats like, total inf killed. soft killed, heavy killed, air killed etc etc with the current log files from arma2. i guess they will not change that in ama3. in that case you can make your own stats.
i dont want the bis devs spending to much time makeing stats for this game.
i have made a stats app for arma2 "A2sg" which is soon to be released.
example of servers logging and generating stats.
http://www.jointheriot.org/viewpage.php?page_id=17
http://www.jointheriot.org/arma2stats/server1/missionhistory.php?A2Year=2011&A2Month=06&A2Day=04
http://dao.nu/content.php?25-stats
im sure there are others.
btw. i pressed wrong. i voted yes when i meant no. since this can be done by us.
metalcraze
Jun 5 2011, 11:08
No statistics.
Statistics will always force people to be more l33t and grind stats. ArmA is great because it has none of that. Fact.
ParaGraphic L
Jun 5 2011, 11:16
How about some real after action reports / debriefing screen?
Not sure how or if it's possible to make a intellectual system that actually gives a appropriate debriefing.
I'd be happy just to have the old notepad back. More statistic tracking just sounds like you're trying to suck the life out of one of the few games capable of going beyond kill:death ratios...
No I don't want any Statitics. Because in Battlefield and CoD they are using Scoreboard, and because of that it isn' t so much Teamwork in them. Because you want to get kills, kills and even more kills. And I don't have Arma 2 (yet) but I will get it, and so far i've seen of it, it is great Teamwork in it. Because then you can tactically move in a group without having the K/D in your head that makes you playing to get all the kills, you don't give a sh*t about your Team. I mean because when I play BFBC2 everybody aim's at the same place where there are most enemys. What i've seen of Arma 2 they stands in a group and watch different directions, and that I think is awesome!
So, no Scoreboard/Statistics... :D
Katipo66
Jun 5 2011, 17:54
Yep, the more stats the better
Stat tracking will have no meaning whatsoever because there are so many different kinds of missions. In one mission you will be killing hundreds of unarmed dummies, in another you get your ass spawnræped by a seasoned player who dodges your every shot. So now that you've played those two very different missions, what exactly does a total statistic of 200 kills, 30 deaths, 10% accuracy, 90% headshots and 1 medical assist mean?
No I don't want any Statitics. Because in Battlefield and CoD they are using Scoreboard, and because of that it isn' t so much Teamwork in them.
What do you have to say about the fact that Arma 2 does indeed have a scoreboard? As we all know, it turns all our Arma 2 players into drooling idiots.
Yes, but preferably not accessible during missions, also, no XP or other retarded stuff.
No Use For A Name
Jun 5 2011, 18:13
Statistics don't have to include K/D.... I for one am curious about how long I have spent on arma, or how far I have traveled by vehicle or foot, and so on...
I agree, and I would LOVE to know things like how many rounds I put downrange, my farthest kill with a sniper rifle, distance traveled...stuff like that.
I just love how the fanbois don't want ANYTHING that maybe CoD/BF type games get right lol
Besides, in Arma, KDR doesn't even matter since there's no respawns when you play it right.
What do you have to say about the fact that Arma 2 does indeed have a scoreboard? As we all know, it turns all our Arma 2 players into drooling idiots.
oh my. what a statement, just because some people are intrested in stats they are automaticly a drooling idiot.
Yes, but preferably not accessible during missions, also, no XP or other retarded stuff.
if you dont like looking at the score table. dont press I. or make an displayevent handler in you mission that overwrites the assignment of I.
even if you get more stats logging than what the current arma2 engines does log. no one is forcing you to look at it..
there will always be players who are intrested in stats. not all of them are a drooling idiot.
if you dont like looking at the score table. dont press I. or make an displayevent handler in you mission that overwrites the assignment of I.
even if you get more stats logging than what the current arma2 engines does log. no one is forcing you to look at it..
there will always be players who are intrested in stats. not all of them are a drooling idiot.
But i dont want other people to look at it either during the mission(Especially those i am playing against), and i dont create every mission/admin every server out there. :p
But i dont want other people to look at it either during the mission(Especially those i am playing against), and i dont create every mission/admin every server out there. :pwell. in your case then make your server, use expert difficulty. afik the score table is disabled then
NoRailgunner
Jun 5 2011, 18:41
Some things are already possible but I guess most OFP/Arma players aren't so crazy about statistic tracking.
Maybe its possible to get an statistic ingame setting for every player eg:
> Don't track me! <
> Activate tracking... <
> Deactivate tracking! <
> Delete all stats/records/... <
Imho options are better instead of turning a blind eye on automatic trackers...
the problem with a global tracking system is that there is a need of a master server that handles it.
i do not think bis is intrested in making it, we have to do whatever we can with the logs on the servers. so it would be up to the hosters to make stats or not.
so for players who want stats, need to play on servers that generate it
Stat tracking would be a waste of money on BIS' side, sorry. ;)
oh my. what a statement, just because some people are intrested in stats they are automaticly a drooling idiot.
Perhaps you should rethink what I tried to say.
was there some sort of irony in your line? if so. sorry if i didnt get it.
Alwarren
Jun 5 2011, 20:22
I originally did not mention what could be included in the statistics, but as someone pointed out people usually just think about kills and deaths and not the other stuff I had in mind (which is what you are mentioning) I mentioned everything I could think of including stuff I do not care about....
Yes, but I specifically oppose the kill counter, since I think it will encourage the usual play-to-kill behavior. So if asked whether there should be tracking or no, in absence of any specifics, I voted No.
KrAziKilla
Jun 5 2011, 20:39
Yes, but I specifically oppose the kill counter, since I think it will encourage the usual play-to-kill behavior. So if asked whether there should be tracking or no, in absence of any specifics, I voted No.
Totally agree.
Arma shouldnt be a play-to-kill game, but a play-to-stay-alive game!
Stat trackers will just make some one go Rambo so he gets 5 kills and then dies.
Its NOT what i want to see in a game like ArmA.
If two clans decided to have a scrim,
then being able to see the stats after the game has finished would be good
KrAziKilla
Jun 5 2011, 21:09
as it is now?
PurePassion
Jun 5 2011, 21:31
so what exactly would we need this for ?
so what exactly would we need this for ?
It would be interesting to see on your profile things like
time spent in aircraft,
most deaths
Total distance on foot. etc
Not needed but interesting to see what you get up to in the game. :cool:
PurePassion
Jun 5 2011, 21:56
It would be interesting
that is the point. it would be interesting but is totally not necessary and to be honest BIS has to focus on other important aspects.
I would like to see this aswell but as a realist i can only say it is really not necessary.
But who knows what BIS's plans are ;)
Cdogwoof
Jun 5 2011, 23:09
I dont want it if it means alot of extra work but if it doesn't it would be cool just to look at even though that idea is straight from BF
I dont want it if it means alot of extra work but if it doesn't it would be cool just to look at even though that idea is straight from BF
Really? Again with the from BF or CoD? There are more than just CoD and BF out there. This idea did NOT come straight from BF.
GossamerSolid
Jun 5 2011, 23:20
I don't want game controlled stat tracking. I'd prefer if BIS made the ability for us to export/import with MySQL/SQLLite so we can make our own for our own missions.
Really? Again with the from BF or CoD? There are more than just CoD and BF out there. This idea did NOT come straight from BF.
So why posting all this BF2 features? Come with something original or at least fun.
its funny to see how people are against stats. when the fact is that you are already tracked to a certain degree with gamespy. :rolleyes:
http://www.gametracker.com/search/arma/
http://arma2.swec.se/server/list
gametracker provides most info about player here.
please give us gamespy 4 support in arma3 :868:
So why posting all this BF2 features? Come with something original or at least fun.
Ugh, read my post again. It is NOT from BF.
zooloo75
Jun 6 2011, 03:00
ArmA isn't really a game suitable for this idea. Atleast this idea was better than your leveling up idea. I would like to see an after action report - if that is what you are going for.
Statistics of what you did when the mission is over. How many casualties, kills, objectives complete, time, and some other good stuff. Leaderboards and such just won't work/be accurate in ArmA. As some others stated, some missions are different from others. You could have a mission where all you do is patrol, or you could have one where you are sent out on a big battlefield and you are able to kill many. It just isn't going to work for this game/sim.
Nicholas
Jun 6 2011, 03:02
No. People would brag about this and would be all like "I've played longer than you so I have more experience." This would make players think they are better than someone else because of some stupid statistics.
ArmA is about teamwork and realism. Not "I did better than you did!"
New players don't really understand this and I suggest you go back and play the previous games (OFP, ArmA 1, ArmA 2, ArmA OA) before making any suggestions for the new one. I'm seeing many suggestions that detract from the central purpose of the game, to be realistic and promote teamwork.
Dice I have played OFP, arma 1, arma 2, and arma 2: OA. I originally left statistic to people's imagination on what I mean. I did not define all the possibilities, nor did I define if it is public or private. Because of the way some of you think people will use them, they would have to be private statistics. Something that is only on your computer. In other words BIS would not need to host a server or something. It could include what I edited into the OP, but does not have to include everything. Like most of you are saying (which I agree with) kills and deaths is really useless for arma.
BTW Dice I agree with people do think they are better because of the time they have played is longer. I have been banned from a MOH server because I was better than everyone on the server and I have only played 7hours total... and they had at least 30ish hours... Basically I was accused of hacking...
Nicholas
Jun 6 2011, 03:15
I just believe that they should leave out statistics completely, leave out any form of leveling or unlocking system. And only allow players to chose style of vest, weapons with any attachments and that's it, using a weight system of course. Colors of clothing should not be changed.
zooloo75
Jun 6 2011, 03:16
I vote for AAR. Also, even if the stats are only on your PC, it's still inaccurate based on the circumstances from missions.
The only problem I could for see is bragging (if we leave out kills and deaths). If it is private does not have kills and deaths, than I really don't see what the problem with statistics is....
zooloo75
Jun 6 2011, 03:21
Then it is just a useless bunch of bytes in your game :P
It's inaccurate info, and it's private. Therefore it's meaningless info.
How would it be inaccurate? Please explain.
I just wonder how the static would perform to people playing "Scape and Evade" and or "Steath" missions? See the problem there!
I just wonder how the static would perform to people playing "Scape and Evade" and or "Steath" missions? See the problem there!
I am confused with what you are trying to say....
I dont like the k/d stats, but it think it could be fun to see how many missions i have played and how many times etc... Could be nice also seeing some sort of stat that simply says which faction i played most, which gun, which map, which vehicle without the times or kills. Just some general stats that can be interesting to look at when waiting for a mission to end because I died again. General random useless stats, a source of diversion while you wait, nothing more.
CameronMcDonald
Jun 6 2011, 05:17
I dont like the k/d stats, but it think it could be fun to see how many missions i have played and how many times etc... Could be nice also seeing some sort of stat that simply says which faction i played most, which gun, which map, which vehicle without the times or kills. Just some general stats that can be interesting to look at when waiting for a mission to end because I died again. General random useless stats, a source of diversion while you wait, nothing more.
Reeks of FPDR and RR.
It's pretty low on my list of wanted features, but I wouldn't mind to see some kind of stats, though only locally tracked for my own viewing pleasure. No online comparisons or rankings.
Just little stuff, like how many kilometers walked on foot and driven/flown in different vehicles, total time played, shots fired + hit/miss/kill, total missions played, etc. It would really be pointless fluff, but out of personal interest I would love to know how many kilometers I've walked/ran since I started to play Arma2, for instance. :)
CarlGustaffa
Jun 6 2011, 12:59
I agree. I loved watching my progress in i.e. GTA, and check all those quite ridiculous entries. Often I hit a "oh, I haven't done that yet". Online? Nah, I don't see the point. If we want to brag or show off amongst clan members, then we can do so manually. Highly subject to cheating, but online would be hacked anyway, so no point in that.
But yeah, all the useless stuff (the more the merrier, pretty much), plus how accurate I am with all vanilla rifles (addon support?). Probably just a local web page created that you can read or export to better excel view or something.
Could possibly be shown ingame on death or waiting to respawn. Shortens the respawn times which can be quite high now with variable respawn times and everything (of which I am a BIG fan of).
I am very much against stat tracking, unlocks, rank systems for said unlocks, etc.
The distinct lack of these things are part of what sets the Arma franchise apart from the rest in MP. It is my feeling that any sort of stat tracking opens the door for those who would become obsessed with such a things as K/D ratios.
The stat system that is present is enough for most.
No Use For A Name
Jun 6 2011, 20:00
I am very much against stat tracking, unlocks, rank systems for said unlocks, etc.
The distinct lack of these things are part of what sets the Arma franchise apart from the rest in MP. It is my feeling that any sort of stat tracking opens the door for those who would become obsessed with such a things as K/D ratios.
The stat system that is present is enough for most.
I don't think the OP was implying to add unlocks or ranks; he didn't even mention it
I don't think the OP was implying to add unlocks or ranks; he didn't even mention it
Exactly. I was talking about pure statistics... I only gave some ideas in my OP of what could be included, not what had to be...
Cdogwoof
Jun 6 2011, 22:50
Exactly. I was talking about pure statistics... I only gave some ideas in my OP of what could be included, not what had to be...
Well you do have another thread with player leveling and unlocks and what other FPS games have stats other than BF and Cod and CoD doesn't even have stats like what your talking about BF does though
mrcash2009
Jun 6 2011, 22:52
I voted no, mainly becuase all the games that do use this are "games".
I cant see where I would need this information and how it would tie into how I use Arma, a military simulator doesnt seem to gell with this idea. The only relevant place it could fit is a mission/campaign specific info as you progress, even then it would need some relevance to the progression of the mission/story/theme, than just idle stats like GTA and other things.
Id say keep it for an addon script stat logger or something.
Well you do have another thread with player leveling and unlocks and what other FPS games have stats other than BF and Cod and CoD doesn't even have stats like what your talking about BF does though
If I could delete the other thread I would... As I gave up on that.... a long time ago. :)
Arma is not an FPS (well it kind of is, but in comparison to CoD or BF ) it is a Mil Sim. Some games I know off the top of my head that have statistics, CoH, WoT, CS, FSX, Oblivion, Fallout 3.... and there is probably more than I can think of...
Again I just named everything that I could think of that could be included...
No.
Firstly, it doesn't work well with the type of game ArmA is, since it's slow-paced and tactical, it would be impossible for the system to assign a score based on how "good" a player is.
Secondly, leaderboards and such always get hacked to a point where they are nearly worthless.
Katipo66
Jun 6 2011, 23:51
I think more a detailed after mission report rather than leader boards and unlocks etc, being a 'sim' i would think Stats in that sense... makes a lot of sense.
No.
Firstly, it doesn't work well with the type of game ArmA is, since it's slow-paced and tactical, it would be impossible for the system to assign a score based on how "good" a player is.
Secondly, leaderboards and such always get hacked to a point where they are nearly worthless.
Thats why you have your own information such as
total distance walked, many shots fired, most used aircraft etc into your own profile for personal viewing. (Not viewable online)
who cares if people hack it, they will only be kidding themselfs. :rolleyes:
I often think to myself, by how long i have played arma series,
What is my most used weapon?
How many times have i died by drowning?
All these things could help you become a better player to actually highlight key areas that you might need improving on.
Macadam Cow
Jun 7 2011, 00:43
No statistics.
Statistics will always force people to be more l33t and grind stats. ArmA is great because it has none of that. Fact.
I disagree so much with this statement. Statistics are not an "arcade only" feature. DCS also has statistics, good luck to find something more hardcore than the DCS series.
Common people, do you really think statistics will change the gameplay or bring the CoD crowd to ArmA ?!
I would gladly welcome statistics a la GTA. I couldn't care less about my kill/death ratio but I'd be curious to know how many hours I've spent ingame, how many Km travelled on foot or crawling, how many choppers I've crashed into trees, how many times I took my binoculars instead of reloading :p,...
No. People would brag about this and would be all like "I've played longer than you so I have more experience." This would make players think they are better than someone else because of some stupid statistics.
uh...it's already the case with the forum joining date...
zooloo75
Jun 7 2011, 04:07
I disagree so much with this statement. Statistics are not an "arcade only" feature. DCS also has statistics, good luck to find something more hardcore than the DCS series.
Common people, do you really think statistics will change the gameplay or bring the CoD crowd to ArmA ?!
I would gladly welcome statistics a la GTA. I couldn't care less about my kill/death ratio but I'd be curious to know how many hours I've spent ingame, how many Km travelled on foot or crawling, how many choppers I've crashed into trees, how many times I took my binoculars instead of reloading :p,...
uh...it's already the case with the forum joining date...
That's a forum for you.
Macadam Cow
Jun 7 2011, 04:15
what :confused:
jblackrupert
Jun 7 2011, 06:57
It really depends on what gets tracked.
Stats and K/D ratios are one of the main driving forces behind cheaters in a lot of games.
Battlefield 2 has tons of Stat pad/Time servers for those people too lazy to actually play the game properly and earn them.
Gametracker.com will keep track of kills of everyone who plays on a server if the admin wants it to.
They just sign up with Gametracker, claim ownership of the server and then briefly
rename their server to "Gametracker" long enough for Gametracker to confirm it was done and viola, change the server name back to what you want it keeps track.
metalcraze
Jun 7 2011, 07:04
I disagree so much with this statement. Statistics are not an "arcade only" feature. DCS also has statistics, good luck to find something more hardcore than the DCS series.
Obviously ArmA isn't as hardcore. In fact it's a welcoming environment for the stat grinding. And that's the problem.
Alwarren
Jun 7 2011, 08:15
Common people, do you really think statistics will change the gameplay or bring the CoD crowd to ArmA ?!
One of the issues I had with a lot of servers in CoD 4 was that they "valued" kills more than achieving the goals. You got a good score for kills, but only a handful of points for e.g. disarming the bomb or defending the HQ. The result was that on these servers people were not playing the game unless it was a server where the owner/admin actually punished/kicked those. I remember seeing one guy through the spectator camera (he was the last guy in our team) just lying on the room of a house while the bomb was being planted, not even making a move. He was just lying there hoping to get a few more kills before the round ended.
If I had my will, games would not track kills at all, and would stress the importance of game modes and achieving mission goals. If a single kill in a game gives you more points than disarming the bomb, then yes, those that want to see their name up in the top spot of the statistics will try to kill and not bother with the game mode. The only reason why they don't play FFA is that they know that there are certain hotspots on the map where people have to go, and thus become easier sniper targets.
Certainly, the Counterstrike community was not happy about scoring being added to the game.
I am not saying that kill tracking/scoring will ruin the game. However, it will "educate" people to play for kills and distract from the mission goal. In a game mode like Headquarter (in the above CoD 4 example) kills should not be counted at all, or given so little weight that the achieving of a goal becomes the utmost importance. While the dedicated players WILL do that no matter what, the world is full of players that want to continuously compare the length of their genitals, and that is exactly the type of gamer that will spoil the game.
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with wanting to play for kills in this or any other game. That's why there are Free For All and Team Deathmatch modes. But the emphasis on killing in game modes that aren't about killing as many players as possible is what bothers me.
Tracking how many kilometers you walked, how many bullets you fired, etc, is fine. Just not kills; or at the very least, make sure that playing a game mode or achieving goals is valued higher.
(and sorry for the length of this)
Howabout BIS exposing a decent (well detailed) API for collecting stats on server side. From there on, any 3rd party could create what ever kind of stats/ranking/blingbling they want. If it turns right and with a bit of luck, it might even promote the game and help selling for broader audience. Ok, im not such a fan of ranks (even more so if there is something locked up in the beginning) nor playing game just for some stats. On the other hand, some post game breafing analytics could turn out to be cool actually. Even more so if it emphasize team playing and team skills and team success (and failures too).
Ups:
1# BIS do not need to turn valuable time to think about actually stats implementation, only API (which they probably have to do anyway...just expose it externally with some docs and maybe minimal source library or something)
2# some 3rd party could invent something huge (like Bungie community in Halo Reach, no i do not play it myself at all...)
3# this might eventually satisfy both parties, those who do not like stats that much and those who are stats junkies (and wants those colorful commendations..all of them)
4# make a server option to turn API on/off
5# even today, some servers do stats collecting (i believe it is through battleye but im not sure)
Downs:
1# are there any if applying stats is volunteer and BIS do not need to take any time on this? (actually it would not change attitude from what it is currently, just expose some better, well mannered API)
2# community driven stuff can not be predicted and then obviously K/D for the masses will occur
Last but not least, this "feature" is not very high on priority list. Maybe even first make the game and then later on introduce API with a patch or something.
i would like the devs to improve the stats that are already logged by the server.
on our server we already log mission stats. for each mission. but this can be improved.
example of log from server..
class Session
{
mission="c&h120 Valhalla [S/1] Staroye v.0.98 beta";
island="Chernarus";
gameType="Hold";
duration=3693.3762;
class Player1
{
name="foo";
killsInfantry=3;
killsSoft=1;
killsArmor=0;
killsAir=1;
killsPlayers=3;
customScore=9;
killsTotal=19;
killed=4;
};
class Player2
{
name="bar";
killsInfantry=2;
killsSoft=0;
killsArmor=0;
killsAir=0;
killsPlayers=2;
customScore=15;
killsTotal=17;
killed=3;
};
class Player3
{
name="moo";
killsInfantry=3;
killsSoft=1;
killsArmor=0;
killsAir=0;
killsPlayers=3;
customScore=6;
killsTotal=11;
killed=2;
};
};
they should make more like this.. which also include which side the player was on. also when he connected/disconnected should be placed in here. if player was playing until end of round a NA or empty string else date/time is shown.
class Session
{
mission="Warfare 3 sided";
island="Chernarus";
gameType="Cti";
gameStarted="2011-06-07 11:30:20"
duration=3693.3762;
class Faction
{
class USMC
{
class Player1
{
name="foo";
killsInfantry=3;
killsSoft=1;
killsArmor=0;
killsAir=1;
killsPlayers=3;
customScore=9;
killsTotal=19;
killed=4;
connected="2011-06-07 11:30:25";
disconnected="NA";
};
};
class RUS
{
class Player2
{
name="bar";
killsInfantry=2;
killsSoft=0;
killsArmor=0;
killsAir=0;
killsPlayers=2;
customScore=15;
killsTotal=17;
killed=3;
connected="2011-06-07 12:12:12";
disconnected="2011-06-07 12:15:00";
};
};
class Guer
{
class Player3
{
name="moo";
killsInfantry=3;
killsSoft=1;
killsArmor=0;
killsAir=0;
killsPlayers=3;
customScore=6;
killsTotal=11;
killed=2;
connected="2011-06-07 12:10:45";
disconnected="NA";
};
class Player4
{
name="boo";
killsInfantry=3;
killsSoft=1;
killsArmor=0;
killsAir=0;
killsPlayers=3;
customScore=6;
killsTotal=11;
killed=2;
connected="2011-06-07 12:20:40";
disconnected="2011-06-07 12:25:10";
};
};
};
};
i still think a global stats tracking is wrong.
but im all for server specific stats.
so for the people who host a server. can deside them self if they want to parse out the stats from the logfile and uploade it to there website.
but a local stats profile would be fun.. i would also like to know how many Kilometers i have walked in arma on foot.
@<hidden> bansku . if they would use gamespy4 you would have the api you need to track stats.
@<hidden> bansku . if they would use gamespy4 you would have the api you need to track stats.
Well, then it might be even simpler task than i originally thought.
I usually check out http://arma2.swec.se/server/list or similar game server browser to check out which CTI to join and also try to figure out which side needs more my "help" :). However, that stat is missing some vital information like which side each player is on. In server where there are a lot of people, it is awful (manual) task to sum up all points to see which side really is loosing.
Change in log structure proposed by you might even help in this balance problem too. Maybe some autobalanced scripts could be developed based on opfor/blufor/guerilla information.
CarlGustaffa
Jun 7 2011, 21:55
Remove the scoreboard so you can't compare to others during the game, but can be nice to see after the fact or when you leave.
Then replace the statistics screen in the map with a tabbed interface, showing a ton of stats:
This game | Today | This Week | This Month | Grand Total
I don't care if k/d ratios are shown here, you can't compare to others at least during the game, without asking for a comparison. Should be enough to take away the score focus, but allows you to keep track of own progress.
Remove the scoreboard so you can't compare to others during the game, .
this can already be done in arma2 by using expert settings..
people also keep on forgetting there is Statistics on the map as you pointed out..
so there is in fact 2 types of stats already in the game..
Stats are horrible, and the DCS example isn't very good as it's not really a competitive environment. Also, it's miles above ArmA in realism and learning curve which helps stop the negative effects of statistics.
CarlGustaffa
Jun 8 2011, 10:44
@<hidden>: Yeah we've disabled it ourselves, on all difficulties. I don't mind the map statistics, as you can't compare. In fact I like it for keeping track of own progress. There are games where realism is thrown out the window anyway, or times when you're soloing waiting for others to show up.
I guess you could also suppress the 'i' key in missions, where you don't want scoreboard, even if scoreboard is activated on server. Like spacebar blocking in Domination. But since we have it turned off, it's never been a concern to try it out.
Innomadic
Jun 8 2011, 10:57
I like the scoreboard. Run at me.
...thats all though...
I don't think the OP was implying to add unlocks or ranks; he didn't even mention it
http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=120216
Well, there is this thread... :p
***LeGeNDK1LLER***
Jun 8 2011, 18:09
voted yes. would have stats to see specifical details of my game stile.
using a stat/rank/medal sistem in the proper way it could be a good solution to increase the teamwork ecc.
No Use For A Name
Jun 9 2011, 01:33
http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=120216
Well, there is this thread... :p
So what? I didn't know we were commenting on that thread..Did that thread have anything to do with this one?
And yet BIS has already confirmed in this video here (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=5326) that unlocks/achievements are not going to be implemented. :rolleyes:
Also, everyone against this seems to not realize that the actual military uses TONS of statistics for their procedures/rules/training.
Demonized
Jun 9 2011, 02:43
Also, everyone against this seems to not realize that the actual military uses TONS of statistics for their procedures/rules/training. that must be the sillyest reasoning ever for having ingame stats in Arma3 FPDR
*
If i wanted killer stats, id just fire up editor, create a mission, SP or MP and script in automated
killing, flying, driving, sniping, stealthing, jumping, climbing, swimming, exploding, dying, masturbating, civvi killing, building razing, repairing, refuelling, rearming etc etc etc for my playing unit.., leave it on for the night and next day i would be "ALMIGHTY GOD OF ARMA3".
Only way to control this online would be to remove the editor or drastically block the freedom to create whatever kind of mission and scripts you want.
So the stats are a big fail before even alive, but then again if its only client sided for personal usage with no whatsoever impact on play, its only yourself you are fooling.
So what? I didn't know we were commenting on that thread..Did that thread have anything to do with this one?
And yet BIS has already confirmed in this video here (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=5326) that unlocks/achievements are not going to be implemented. :rolleyes:
Also, everyone against this seems to not realize that the actual military uses TONS of statistics for their procedures/rules/training.
Well, he did start that thread as well, so the two topics are obviously related in his mind anyway. However, I only mentioned it to simply point it out; not to discuss it any further here.
As for the real military using stats...
I doubt they care about K/D ratios, 'assists,' how many people a medic has healed, how many mines an engineer has diffused, etc.
What the military cares about are the overall number of casualties, the time it takes to accomplish a mission, and how organized the overall execution of a mission is (among other things). Hence, the, "After action review," feature in VBS2.
If we got an after action review feature here, that would be great! However, I would be heartbroken to see such things as K/D ratios and other things find their way in here. This is not an arcade shooter, and features found in arcade shooters generally have no place here. It's not about relating it to CoD or Battlefield. It's about keeping the franchise in it's niche. This is war simulation; meant to portray a plausible future warfare scenario. I don't see how stats such as those described by the OP are useful in achieving that overall goal.
Besides, if anyone really has their heart set on such things, some scripting in the editor could probably add stats fairly easily. There's no need for BI to add them when a modder could add them easily enough.
It's already in A2 with mods.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eekGNa2XfDA
Well, he did start that thread as well, so the two topics are obviously related in his mind anyway. However, I only mentioned it to simply point it out; not to discuss it any further here.
As for the real military using stats...
I doubt they care about K/D ratios, 'assists,' how many people a medic has healed, how many mines an engineer has diffused, etc.
What the military cares about are the overall number of casualties, the time it takes to accomplish a mission, and how organized the overall execution of a mission is (among other things). Hence, the, "After action review," feature in VBS2.
If we got an after action review feature here, that would be great! However, I would be heartbroken to see such things as K/D ratios and other things find their way in here. This is not an arcade shooter, and features found in arcade shooters generally have no place here. It's not about relating it to CoD or Battlefield. It's about keeping the franchise in it's niche. This is war simulation; meant to portray a plausible future warfare scenario. I don't see how stats such as those described by the OP are useful in achieving that overall goal.
Besides, if anyone really has their heart set on such things, some scripting in the editor could probably add stats fairly easily. There's no need for BI to add them when a modder could add them easily enough.
In my opinion, stats would not derail the arma series, nor would it make it more what it is. Scripting a single mission, is not global. I am talking about global stats.
Stats and leveling are not the same topic. That is why I made two threads. As I have posted many times now, I gave up on leveling... Yet I have not posted that on this thread, because they are different.
Stats for me is just to see what you have accomplished. In a way to give your self an idea about how much progress you have made within certain specifications.
As I have posted a while back on this thread... If stats are private and do not include kills and deaths, then I see no reason why someone would have a problem with them.
If you have some other problem please say so. Otherwise you're just restating what everyone else has said, which is irreverent if those issues are solved with what I mentioned.
Trauma.au
Jun 9 2011, 05:30
Lets just get accurate scoring before adding useless fluff like stat tracking.
Lets just get accurate scoring before adding useless fluff like stat tracking.
And to get kills for blowing up enemy shiz. I hate it when I blow a tank with a satchel and get -1.
As for the real military using stats...
I doubt they care about K/D ratios, 'assists,' how many people a medic has healed, how many mines an engineer has diffused, etc.
What the military cares about are the overall number of casualties, the time it takes to accomplish a mission, and how organized the overall execution of a mission is (among other things). Hence, the, "After action review," feature in VBS2.
If we got an after action review feature here, that would be great! However, I would be heartbroken to see such things as K/D ratios and other things find their way in here. This is not an arcade shooter, and features found in arcade shooters generally have no place here. It's not about relating it to CoD or Battlefield. It's about keeping the franchise in it's niche. This is war simulation; meant to portray a plausible future warfare scenario. I don't see how stats such as those described by the OP are useful in achieving that overall goal.
Exactly, the military is about group effort, the individual is unimportant in the grand scheme of things, even in terms of special forces it's the mission and combined forces that matter.
I'd like to see scores only for units perhaps, so in MP instead of the current individual scores, they are added into groups like the squads, platoons or companies.
metalcraze
Jun 9 2011, 07:20
In my opinion, stats would not derail the arma series, nor would it make it more what it is. Scripting a single mission, is not global. I am talking about global stats.
They will. We can't find a way how to disable stupid statistics here which show how many people you have killed on the map screen no matter what the difficulty (and help confirm the kill in a very cheater-ish way) is and you are talking about pushing it further to ridiculous levels.
Anything that makes people kill more has no place in this game.
This game isn't about being leet. It's about the teamwork. The lack of global stats makes sure that the latter is a priority.
Stats for me is just to see what you have accomplished. In a way to give your self an idea about how much progress you have made within certain specifications.
Why do you care?
I care about having a good time. I don't really care if I do 4 kills or 22 kills during the mission or if I ran 10km on foot as long as my team gets the job done with minimum casualties because that's what makes missions fun, not the "guise I killed 1000 people I'm so leeet"
As I have posted a while back on this thread... If stats are private and do not include kills and deaths, then I see no reason why someone would have a problem with them.
Even if they have no kills/deaths they will still encourage people to do whatever it is in them.
At least you didn't start a thread about including achievements.
andersson
Jun 9 2011, 08:53
even if I personally dont care about stats I can see why it would be interesting and fun. But I'm afraid that it would distract me the same way as the kill scoreboard does today. If its disabled I play the mission with my friends, if its on I cant help but try to get a higher kill stat... Dont know why.
Anyway. Stats would not reflect me as a player anyway. As I make alot of missions it also means alot of playtesting. So if a retry a scenario I maybe kill a tank 10-20 times just to see how the scripts behave and so on, also alot of situations that could be considered as cheating as I give myself great advantages just to see how the scenarios unfolds.
So the stats would be of no use of me in anyway.
JojoTheSlayer
Jun 9 2011, 09:28
I dont want them to spend to much time on stuff like this, but I remember a game called Quake Wars (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro8mXMnwtaE) where the end of round screen had loads of stats for the current session which went far beyond just the kill stats and in that way also rewarded support roles with similar recognition.
While not a game breaker, I think its cool to see who was the best at "insert stuff". Who drove the longest that round, who flew the longest, who scored most points, who died the most, who killed the most, who camped (stood still) the most and so on.
Its funny when you in some games can deduct that the player with the most kills and fewest deaths also didnt move a inch. :)
They will. We can't find a way how to disable stupid statistics here which show how many people you have killed on the map screen no matter what the difficulty (and help confirm the kill in a very cheater-ish way) is and you are talking about pushing it further to ridiculous levels.
Anything that makes people kill more has no place in this game.
This game isn't about being leet. It's about the teamwork. The lack of global stats makes sure that the latter is a priority.
Why do you care?
I care about having a good time. I don't really care if I do 4 kills or 22 kills during the mission or if I ran 10km on foot as long as my team gets the job done with minimum casualties because that's what makes missions fun, not the "guise I killed 1000 people I'm so leeet"
Even if they have no kills/deaths they will still encourage people to do whatever it is in them.
At least you didn't start a thread about including achievements.
Out of all of the stuff you mentioned only one was not an issue about kills and deaths. The others are useless because I said no kills and deaths. So what did you gain out of that, nothing.
I don't care about kills and deaths. So your argument about why you think I care and the statement about what you care about is invalid. Of course we like to have fun... Isn't that the point of games? :rolleyes:
Here is an example on how I would use statistics. If I wanted to see how much progress I have made flying within a certain amount of time, I could just look at how many hours I have flown and then asses my own flying capabilities. Same goes for anything else (infantry, crewman, pilot, ect.)
The only new thing you added to the forum was the following:
[/QUOTE]
Even if they have no kills/deaths they will still encourage people to do whatever it is in them.
[/QUOTE]
Which to be honest, I don't think a lot of people would just fly or walk aimlessly to get a big number for that. So again, this is a pointless statement.
im not a big fan of global stats, altho i find it fun to log the stats for our server.
i think this is the best solutions. since if people want to check out the stats. or improve there stats or what ever. they can go play on servers who does log stats.
now.
i suggested that the bis improve the server log that the server generates after each mission.
i had some more thought about it and i noticed. that even with my suggestion. on page 8 isnt good enough.
example: 3 players with name "foo" connects.
we have no way telling who is who when reading the stats in the server log.
example: where. player "foo" connects and plays a bit usmc against player "bar" on rus.
player "foo" disconnects and a new player with name "foo" connects, same problem raises.. which "foo" is which.
example: 2 players are playing warfare. both have same name. "foo"
player "foo" on west disconnects. and rejoins on east team. again ..which foo is which,
problem can be solved by adding i pid to the class Player.
class Session
{
mission="Warfare 3 sided";
island="Chernarus";
gameType="Cti";
gameStarted="2011-06-07 11:30:20"
duration=3693.3762;
class Faction
{
class USMC
{
class Player1
{
name="foo";
pid = 1234567;
connected="2011-06-07 11:30:25";
disconnected="NA";
killsInfantry=3;
killsSoft=1;
killsArmor=0;
killsAir=1;
killsPlayers=3;
customScore=9;
killsTotal=19;
killed=4;
};
};
class RUS
{
class Player2
{
name="foo";
pid = 7654321;
connected="2011-06-07 12:12:12";
disconnected="2011-06-07 12:15:00";
killsInfantry=2;
killsSoft=0;
killsArmor=0;
killsAir=0;
killsPlayers=2;
customScore=15;
killsTotal=17;
killed=3;
};
};
class Guer
{
class Player3
{
name="foo";
pid = 765123;
connected="2011-06-07 12:10:45";
disconnected="NA";
killsInfantry=3;
killsSoft=1;
killsArmor=0;
killsAir=0;
killsPlayers=3;
customScore=6;
killsTotal=11;
killed=2;
};
};
};
};
also there is no need to generate new classes for each faction the player has played on, this can be a section in the cass itself.
....
....
class Player3
{
name="foo";
pid = 765123;
faction = "USMC"
connected="2011-06-07 12:10:45";
disconnected="NA";
killsInfantry=3;
killsSoft=1;
killsArmor=0;
killsAir=0;
killsPlayers=3;
customScore=6;
killsTotal=11;
killed=2;
};
maybe i should put all this in a3 wishlist. but since there is already a thread about stats. im using this one instead..
Windexglow
Jun 11 2011, 16:53
I've already posted before. But I'll add my cents again.
Any type of kill should be excluded - stats should be local (no one else sees them, they're just for you. Yes you can exploit, but who are you fooling?). Stats would be number of times firing X weapon. Average distance weapon is fired at. Longest hit with X weapon. Average life span. Distance walked. Wheels destroyed. Rounds passed over your head.
Ectect. I wouldn't want it to be a tab-screen of KDR of everyone on the server, but something to look at as the game loads or something mundane.
whats next.. people starts whining about the forum having stats aswell. number of post pr day.. total post, last active so on :p
also thouse who are so against stats, why is no one posting in arma2 section demanding it removed? let me guess..its not a big problem.. no one is uploading it to there site except a few hosters.
also what about the gamespy protocole.some sites keeps track of yours stats.. altho its no where near as accurate as the one generated by the server ."server log file"
yet this has not been a big issue.. what makes people think it will be any issue in arma3 still make me wounder.
the vast majority of arma players are grown up people. not many kiddies running around.
people who say stats are pointless since there are so many diffrent type of missions.
well. tell you what,. its simple making stats for spesific mission.
as long as you can parse out the server log you can make stats for every mission played on the server.
no need to put it all in one. coop,dm,cti so on.
keep the stats the server generated in the server log file. and improve it a bit. screw global stats.
as i pointed out.. this way people who want to look at stats can play on server which logs it.
simple as that .. if you dont like stats,. dont play on them servers.
this way both sides can be happy :)
SB Interactive
Jun 11 2011, 18:20
id like private stats that only the player who got them could see. it would work for both sides: those who want to can see their stats after the game is over can, while those who have a stick up their butt about this won't ever have to look at their stat page.
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