View Full Version : AI improved?
May 30 2011, 15:41
No doubt some kind of improvement will take place for the AI but just to what extent? Atm the AI is serously bad minus mods making them a bit better. Out of the box the AI are really shocking sometimes, alot of the time they end up getting themselfs killed by doing the most stupid things i have yet to witness, sometimes the commanding the AI can become a real headache and you end up wanting to just go it alone because your AI team either gets killed or ends up getting you killed.
In general the AI system imo needs a complete overhaul, make them use their surroundings better, i know they take cover behind walls and stuff but they do it whilst prone and shoot at the wall lol. Perhaps have it so the AI when you order them to a building automaticly fill the slots in that building insted of attempting to move them and get stuck and killed. It would also be good to try and improve the vehicle mounting / dismounting so you can easly dismount the passangers leaving the gunners and can quickly remount without having to assign team red + blue selecting each team and so on it just gets headache.
Anyone else got some ideas, i got loads but i dont know whats possible and whats not.
My idea would be , BIS offering you a job. So you can join them and do much more good things for us from within.:scratchchin:
But seriously. I totally agree with you.It needs a complete overhaul. I were witness of AI driving behavior,i have absolutely no words to descripe the mess i had to watch.
For an example : You have a T-cross road.All the AI have to do is to make a simple turn to the right or left to follow the street,but they are not able to make the easiest moves. Instead the car get stuck at the corner on a house or a fence,and it take up to minutes the car comes back to formation.
Also driving in a convoy with more than a second car is practically not possible when driving in a consecutive formation.This makes bigger operations above all in Cherno with lots of snaky streets and trails impossible.
So i think a main focus on this would be a plus for all of us.
CMB Unit 01
May 30 2011, 17:13
Programming AI is no easy task, especially with the open world environment like the Arma series. In comparison to other games, I would say BIS have made the best AI, since they're not driven by scripted sequences or driven by movement nodes.
I think BIS have built a pretty good foundation for themselves, and will no doubt continue to add and improve the AI's routines and procedures.
May 30 2011, 17:57
You mean the AI does things that are stupid?, that even the worst human player wouldn't?. Thats really strange since the AI does have a brain and all.
Seriously people are constantly complaining about the AI and saying how it should be, completely ignoring the sheer amount the AI has to deal with and how well they do so considering all they are is a man made system of responses responding to a dynamic situation in an open world. With that in mind the AI in the game is second to none and 'A complete overhaul' would do F all but hinder. All we need is for BIS to continue on the road of improvement, WHICH IS VAST. I can now send a fire team through a town of hostiles without too much micro managing, which was difficult on ARMA 2 release. Veh especially are improved, I can tell 2 guys to go fetch a truck I left in a forest in another town and(although he takes a while to get out the trees) they manage.
Also don't mistake your inability to control brainless machines with they're inability to perform.
May 30 2011, 18:01
The core of the AI is solid. All they really need is a series of endless tweaks to give them capabilities that are currently lacking.
They know how to take cover almost perfectly, but they can't do both that and stay in formation. They know how to get to and from cover, but they aren't too good at fighting from it, and have no sense of self-preservation when enemies are encountered in close quarters on the way to cover.
I also hope that Arma 3 will provide more accurate viewblock models for tree canopies.
No Use For A Name
May 30 2011, 18:49
I seem to notice "dumb" AI more at certain distances...either past 5-600m and within 10-20m (this is just roughly guestimating from my experience). Battles in between those ranges are intense and realistic...but outside of that range and it's sometimes a shitshow. Too far and the AI just stands there as you pick them off at range; too close and sometimes they'll just stand there with a blank stare as you unload a clip into them (or if they know you're there they track you thru objects and instantly blow your head off when you peek around the corner)
Navigation (at least on foot) is one of their strong-points IMO...playing a lot of SP they never seem to have problems navigating thru buildings and multiple levels. I was even critically wounded in a mosque tower as I was sniping, and the AI medic had no trouble working his way out of a 3-story building and up the spiral staircase to heal me.
They definitely need improvement, but I don't think they're as bad as some people make them out to be
edit: Like maturin said, they need more tweaking then an overhaul. I think there's a lot of good stuff there, but there's too many "conflicts" and so they get "confused"
May 30 2011, 19:09
I seem to notice "dumb" AI more at certain distances...either past 5-600m and within 10-20m (this is just roughly guestimating from my experience).
Their reaction time is nowhere near sufficient at very close ranges, but another problem is facing. Fights at point-blank are usually very complex tactically, with many walls and doors. Threats can come from any direction and the AI lacks the logic to choose the best heading. Most games fix this by letting the AI cheat, but the ArmA's could perhaps be quicker to turn around.
And they can be made effective at very long ranges. They just lack the spotting capabilities to do it on your own. But if they have a spotter close it, it's a different story.
(or if they know you're there they track you thru objects and instantly blow your head off when you peek around the corner)
In the end, it's nearly impossible to balance their capabilities so that all ranges work well. BIS has chose to get that 50m-600m done well.
They really don't, though. They do have ears.
heres something to ponder over... AI, more specifically computer code capable of creating something that can think for itself is an ongoing task for the minds that be, and will continue improving, be it games or robots.
Think how much the AI have improved since the last "rework" or even creation of the AI system. This was done quite some time ago i can imagine, and i have a gut feeling that improving AI would be very near number 1 on there to-do list.
Better close range combat abilities is all that is missing for me. Long range firefights are currently the best thing about ARMA IMO.
It is true that mods like ZEUS AI have improved AI quite a lot. I wonder if mods like that have ever affected the development of any of the RV games...
May 31 2011, 06:40
I like how every other feature either needs to be fixed with a 'new engine' or in this case a 'complete overhaul'.
May 31 2011, 06:57
AI that dont shoot tanks/armored vehicles with their primary weapons
AI that use building interiors and that operate much more realisticly at very close distance
AI that drive/Pilot and stay in formation better
AI that use their environment to their advantage, height, static weapons, static cover, weather conditions, lighting conditions.
This is all the really needs to be done to the AI, for the most part their pretty good.
May 31 2011, 07:17
It'd be interesting if depending what mode the AI are in, that they could even be prone to mistakes like friendly fire.
May 31 2011, 10:56
Well, the AI has improved with each iteration of the Arma series, there is no reason to think that the AI in A3 will not be improved.
May 31 2011, 12:31
... This is all the really needs to be done to the AI
I agreed with everything except That. There are many more issues.
AI (infantry) rarely return fire past 300m. And almost only mguns and snipers when they do.
Players tend to pick scoped weapons capable of hitting at hundreds of meters.. All while the AI infantry is barely able to fight past 200.
Distance is, I think, a very big issue.
They don't react to bullet cracks or even rockets flying past them - only muzzle sound, hits and near hits (I think).
Their ability to pinpoint depends dramatically on whether their soldiers are taking hits or not.
They much too often stay in place. They don't often make decisions autonomously (eg to flank, hide, retreat, charge...)
AI can also be difficult to command. Getting stuck. Refusing to enter vehicles - or constantly having to make detours -- even in totally open areas.
and I'm sure much much more.
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