Concern about soundtrack's sound quality

[Celery]

Ondřej Matějka makes awesome music but something in the Arma 2 soundtrack has bothered me and now I know what. The songs have been mastered like prime examples of the loudness war (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvheOquAmyw) with all parts of the track loud, creating a suffocating carpet of noise that, if the music is played at full volume in the game, makes you want to turn off the music altogether to let your ears rest.

I can show the difference between good and bad mastering. The song Manhattan appears on both Queen's Gambit and Arma 2, the former's version actually being a decently mastered version.
Manhattan, Arma 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_Oqmjr1Uy8&fmt=18&t=3m32s
Manhattan, Queen's Gambit: http://www.mediafire.com/?7mw183o7232722q

Tell me what you think of the difference. At least I hope that the Arma 3 tracks will have a more balanced and well-used dynamic range.

[Laqueesha]

I agree. Khe Sanh Riff is my most favourite song from ARMA 2 and it is so loud that the sound quality is degraded as a result.

[kylania]

I'd thought it might be something with YouTube so I checked the OGG in the game itself, and yeah the QB version is more subtle. The drums at the beginning feel a little 'hollow' but once the music kicks in there's more depth to the song and it does sound much better.

[NeMeSiS]

Interestingly enough one of the developers already touched on the subject of the loudness war when it came to the weapon effects or something, the post was quite elaborate.

I compared the QG version with the ArmA2 version on my HD (Youtube messes with the quality too much) and could indeed easily hear and see (with the squiggly line visualization most mediaplayers have) the problem, and i fully agree with you.

[gammadust]

This reminds me of the equivalent Laudness War between commercials and adjacent programming. At the responsability of TV broadcasters and their urge to value commercial interludes, since they don't know what subtlety is, they overshot the percieved loudness. Ultimately resulting in a backfire because, according to studies, people started to counter it with volume mute and channel zapping. :yay:

[NeMeSiS]

This reminds me of the equivalent Laudness War between commercials and adjacent programming. At the responsability of TV broadcasters and their urge to value commercial interludes, since they don't know what subtlety is, they overshot the percieved loudness. Ultimately resulting in a backfire because, according to studies, people started to counter it with volume mute and channel zapping. :yay:

Shame that none of them read those studies. :p

[CameronMcDonald]

I agree. Khe Sanh Riff is my most favourite song from ARMA 2 and it is so loud that the sound quality is degraded as a result.

Lol quoi? Cobalt, you fool. 44 seconds of awesome. Arrowhead - Arrival.

'nuff said.

http://www.visualhollywood.com/movies/ocean-13/pics/ocean-13-038.jpg

[Laqueesha]

Nothing can touch the greatness that is Khe Sanh Riff, mate.

[CarlGustaffa]

Ondřej Matějka makes awesome music but something in the Arma 2 soundtrack has bothered me and now I know what. The songs have been mastered like prime examples of the loudness war (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvheOquAmyw) with all parts of the track loud, creating a suffocating carpet of noise that, if the music is played at full volume in the game, makes you want to turn off the music altogether to let your ears rest.

Maybe boytitanium (http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=108747) was hired by BIS? :D Anyhow, I'm not a great fan of the music used in this game, I prefer the orchestral approach to epic games :) So I'm not worried as the volume goes in the low low range anyhow.

Edit: Oh I see now that it was you who did that outstanding +20dB improvement - loved that thread :D

[Daniel]

I quite like BIS music, it always seems to have that synthy BIS edge to it. But then I thought Seventh rocked so what do I know? :D

That Queen's Gambit version is miles better, it didn't make me want to kick my speakers over, unlike the Arma 2 version.

[2nd Ranger]

I only like a few of the Arma 2 tracks because they are too synthy for me, but the EW and PMC soundtracks are great. I think they actually contribute to the atmosphere rather than just trying to make you feel badass, like that hard rock track near the end of 'Amphibious Assault'.

Also yeah, the QB version of Manhattan is alot better.

[Ebolavirus]

...let your ears rest.

you hit the nail on the head there. A constant wall of sound eventually becomes noise which you subconsciously try to mask out. By doing so it becomes even harder to determine what you really need to be hearing from the environment... leading to fatigue.

if anything music should retain its emotive appeal. composition and mastering is important on this level.

[Deadfast]

This is what the waveforms have to say:
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x279/deadfastcz/arma2/a2ost_lw.png

Look at the compression, all dynamic range is gone :(

[Daniel]

Unsurprising but still... urgh.

[CarlGustaffa]

Well, the loudness war isn't a new phenomena. Back in those days there was someone who wanted orchestras in the 4-600 musicians range. And I don't think it was for clarity :D Only now, the loudness war is electronic rather than highly analogue :D

[Ebolavirus]

Look at the compression, all dynamic range is gone :(

all i can say is that's "shocking". it looks like the mastering was done by an engineer who has spent way to much time in the studio mastering adverts for TV and radio... if thats the case, I imagine he's lost all sense of hearing and the ability to listen.

[CarlGustaffa]

Why shocked? That's the norm nowadays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EgamkLkXW8 (Bob Katz). And, I thought BIS was against the loudness war :D

[Steakslim]

Yeah I've seen this brought up in other communities. A lot of amateur composers are quite against it, and get rather miffed when their work gets this treatment by the guys doing the mastering on their work beyond composer's control.

[])rStrangelove]

Lol so thats why its so distorted. Cmon Mr.Soundesigner, we got limiters for that for a reason.