Non Lethal Force and Restraint System

[eddie247]

I would like to see a non-lethal force and a restraint system added to Arma 3.

Weapons such as:-

beanbag shotguns

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_ymNErgGkQ&feature=related

pepper spray

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnyuSQ5sM2Y

taser

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOVku86WfVg&NR=1

And restraints such as :-

handcuffs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JgGWjdNASw

plastic zip ties

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeLX-K1G5bk&playnext=1&list=PL7CD5047DD3CCCA42

rope/tape

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiRZ0tBMSbY&NR=1

gag

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI4IQAxJsFE&playnext=1&list=PLE239E52BC50B698A

[Mr Burns]

I like the idea! In SWAT 4 it was always more enjoyable to catch suspects than just pumping them full of lead, somehow adds a new level to your role in a game.

Loved the moments when an AI twitched, got shot instantly, only for the players to reckognize he was just laying down his weapon. Pretty intense moments when you cannot know what the AI is going to do - unlike what we have in ArmA 2 now.

[eddie247]

Yes lol, I played it a little and liked the effects.

The pepperspray paintball gun :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha66OZaf3ro&playnext=1&list=PLC362CBB4A64336D1

The aim of the game is to get points and you only get 1 for a kill but 5 for a capture.

In Zargabad life the cops get stun guns and can arrest and imprison people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBv4cPjIp9g

[Primarch]

I like the idea! In SWAT 4 it was always more enjoyable to catch suspects than just pumping them full of lead, somehow adds a new level to your role in a game.

Loved the moments when an AI twitched, got shot instantly, only for the players to reckognize he was just laying down his weapon. Pretty intense moments when you cannot know what the AI is going to do - unlike what we have in ArmA 2 now.

I am not gonna leave anything to a chance against BIS AI. I will just pump them full of lazors.

[Ebolavirus]

And restraints such as :-

handcuffs
plastic zip ties
rope/tape
gag

don't forget this in the list either, a must have, once they're bound

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tickle_torture

[MrWesley]

its not a cop game or something like that its a military milsim. you see any soldiers in iraq or afghanistan walking around with pepperspray and tazers?? arresting them??

[DMarkwick]

its not a cop game or something like that its a military milsim. you see any soldiers in iraq or afghanistan walking around with pepperspray and tazers?? arresting them??

Are you suggesting that all force applied in Aghanistan is lethal force? BTW A3 will be a game. A flexible game :)

[walker]

Hi all

OFF TOPIC ASSIDE
For those of you who do not know all games producers are moving to a single engine that does all capabilites. If you look through the industry press it is mentioned all the time. That is because you can make more money by having a universal engine, as it cuts down development time. Esentialy you turn your one engine in to a cash cow breeder. I would not be surprised to see a golf game based on the RV engine.

ON TOPIC
Add in the ability to search people and remove things from their inventory.

Things in their hand requires they are restrained or subdued so ties in with ability to knockout an individual.

Things in pack and pockets should require either acquiescence or sneakiness and physical contact. Would be great for a future covert ops games and Military Intelligence ops and for "... life" type games as you could have pick pocketing.

Also additional inventory objects like cards, keys, money, wallets etc.

Make ALL doors on buildings lockable with IDed key numbers, ditto venicles and have padlocks for gates.

Imagine bumping into a character, then having to check you inventory to see if they stole your ID card, credit card, cash car keys and or wallet.

Kind Regards walker

[tsb247]

I wouldn't mind seeing the FN family of less-lethal weapons making an appearance in Arma 3! :D

http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=255

[That guy]

in iraq and afghanistan A LOT of people get arrested and detained. however, the events of a3 cover force on force warfare. not as much room for that sort of stuff. if he has a gun, shoot him.

[MissionCreep]

I want to have the ability to hand out candy to kids in Arma III, and play a badass game of soccer ... please, BIS, please!

[Laqueesha]

The beanbag guns, OC spray seems a little over the top, but the ability to restrain enemies and taken them prisoner should be added. It is already possible in A2/OA, but with heavy scripting.

[Rye]

Plastic Zip Ties sounds great. They're used all the time.

Do they arrest people? Yes. Infact it's a bigger task but a more important one to arrest rather than kill. The surrender module would need a bit of sweat, blood, and tears put into it for the type of gameplay you want to see.

This post would fit in with the morale post not long ago - if you have 7 guys with M4's staring at you, you're more likely to put that weapon down - hopefully with new animations and PhysX they might just drop it and scatter or drop it and go prone, instead of an awkward kneel, with weapon still up, and going into the gear menu to drop it, hehe - by that time we've shot them. It should depend on skill level and with a randomness factor.

[CameronMcDonald]

I like the idea! In SWAT 4 it was always more enjoyable to catch suspects than just pumping them full of lead, somehow adds a new level to your role in a game.

I gave up on SWAT 4 when I realised that the hardest difficulty essentially meant you could only pass the levels when you gave your entire team beanbag guns, otherwise you a) had men die, b) died yourself when an AI twitchshot you right between the eyes or c) get penalised for vapourising the little fuckers when they fail to comply.

Total rubbish.

/rant

I would like to see some limited kind of prisoner securing in A3, but it won't ruin my life if BIS doesn't give a damn.

[Militantsausage]

yeah I feel the same way cameron, just having some sort of surrendered enemy capturing function would be cool, then having them follow you, plus to give it an actual purpose there could be a function where there is a random chance they will tell you where their allies are, and also forcing them to drop their gear is important.

Less than lethal though would be a bit dodgy, I know flexibility is good but I would rather see BIS work on a full weapon customization system, being able to attach things to weapons (when not in combat) and being able to have a realistic reflex sight and optic simulation.

[Rye]

I gave up on SWAT 4 when I realised that the hardest difficulty essentially meant you could only pass the levels when you gave your entire team beanbag guns, otherwise you a) had men die, b) died yourself when an AI twitchshot you right between the eyes or c) get penalised for vapourising the little fuckers when they fail to comply.

Total rubbish.

/rant

I would like to see some limited kind of prisoner securing in A3, but it won't ruin my life if BIS doesn't give a damn.

It was better with the SSF mod, and on a semi-sane server. So you could finally shoot a suspect who raised an AK-47 to your head without an admin screaming down the mic everytime you did so.

It had an alright moral system with weaponary pointed at the suspect and they'd decide whether or not to comply. Overall it needed a lot of work though.

The handcuffing and zip tie'ing was good, I liked the little things like wearing lighter body armour allowed you to move freely and cuff people quicker.


Laqueesha, you have a video of this restraining enemies script?

[Laqueesha]

Laqueesha, you have a video of this restraining enemies script?

No, but it is possible due to the fact that there are restrained prisoner animations in the game.

[eddie247]

there could be a function where there is a random chance they will tell you where their allies are, and also forcing them to drop their gear is important.

I like the dropping gear idea once the enemy has reached a detained/surrendered state.

Also I like the idea that with lower skill level they would divulge information about their allies whereabouts given brief questioning using the already existing interaction menu.

If the enemy had a "surrender" ability determined by how many enemies he has detected around him making him drop his weapons and put his hands up ("hands up" being an already exisiting animation in arma 2, pls put this in 3 also ;)) this would definately develop the idea further.

Beanbag shotguns are a suggestion for a ranged stun weapon, like the stun pistol in Zargabad Life etc. missions.

A weapon to outright stun/blind and or knock the target to the ground for a pre determined amount of time based on skill level is something that could be added.

@<hidden> I think the soccer idea is ridiculous ;) however some form of dance mat type activities using some new dance move animations like previous Arma2 dancing would be fabulous and a wonderful group activity in a warzone.

[No Use For A Name]

Why would "less-than-lethal" weapons/tactics be used in a WAR simulator? You don't hear about soldiers tasing the enemy...

Leave it for addon/mod makers

[OnlyRazor]

Why would "less-than-lethal" weapons/tactics be used in a WAR simulator? You don't hear about soldiers tasing the enemy...

Leave it for addon/mod makers


We've been through this before. Real soldiers don't use lethal force everywhere, every time.

[No Use For A Name]

We've been through this before. Real soldiers don't use lethal force everywhere, every time.

Then what about the MAJORITY of the time?

If BIS tried to cover every single aspect of war, we'd never see a release.
Their focus since OFP has been larger-scale invasion type scenarios, hence why "less-than-lethal" has never been included in the game because the enemy is using assault rifles and knows you're coming.

Which is also why it should be left to the addon makers.

[NeMeSiS]

Then what about the MAJORITY of the time?

If BIS tried to cover every single aspect of war, we'd never see a release.
Their focus since OFP has been larger-scale invasion type scenarios, hence why "less-than-lethal" has never been included in the game because the enemy is using assault rifles and knows you're coming.

Which is also why it should be left to the addon makers.

Actually, i feel that the ArmA2 campaign could have benefited from this, instead of politely asking some prisoner to tag along until i remember where i parked my vehicle. :p

[Flogger23m]

If they make grenade throwing more natural, I would like to see flash bangs, CS gas, ect. It would make for more interesting types of missions. And it would be nice to have a SWAT like game mixed in with ArmAs huge landscapes.

ACE also has flash bangs and whatnot.

[Rye]

Then what about the MAJORITY of the time?

If BIS tried to cover every single aspect of war, we'd never see a release.
Their focus since OFP has been larger-scale invasion type scenarios, hence why "less-than-lethal" has never been included in the game because the enemy is using assault rifles and knows you're coming. .

What about the surrender module; doesn't that fit in with this? That would open up a new element of gameplay. You can therefore arrest and interrogate the enemy POW; mission makers could create custom conversations for this. And HVT missions could now be 'capture' instead of 'kill'. Because in A2 you just end up killing the poor bugger because the surrender module is unreliable, the only time you 'capture' them is by not giving them a weapon in the first place.

The only thing I'd like to see changed it the way POW's follow you, they should stick closer and react quicker; more fluidity in their movement.

I agree that half this less-than-lethal stuff is not, and will not be used. Maybe in training but no more, therefore it shouldn't be added. The only points I agree with is a zip-tie and improving the surrender module. All the other stuff can be left for the addon makers.

Maybe a new topic needs to be started on the surrender module...

---------- Post added at 01:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:03 PM ----------


If they make grenade throwing more natural, I would like to see flash bangs, CS gas, ect. It would make for more interesting types of missions. And it would be nice to have a SWAT like game mixed in with ArmAs huge landscapes.

ACE also has flash bangs and whatnot.

I agree, better animations for throwing grenades; for them to be more reliable. But the problem with ACE's flashbangs is that they could 'flash' you through walls. It didn't detect walls and objects.

[jblackrupert]

its not a cop game or something like that its a military milsim. you see any soldiers in iraq or afghanistan walking around with pepperspray and tazers?? arresting them??

Arma is what the mission, addon and mod makers want it to be.

Spend some time exploring Armaholic.

[Splintert]

Rather than non-lethal weapons, why not disarming? Shooting someone in the hand is likely to make them drop their gun. Must less being able to shoot back semi-effectively. Shooting someone in the foot should make them drop to the gound in pain, and crawl around. Also, they should be able to get 20 bullets to the leg and being totally immobilized rather than dead. Legshots are hardly fatal instantly.

[Rye]

Rather than non-lethal weapons, why not disarming? Shooting someone in the hand is likely to make them drop their gun. Must less being able to shoot back semi-effectively. Shooting someone in the foot should make them drop to the gound in pain, and crawl around. Also, they should be able to get 20 bullets to the leg and being totally immobilized rather than dead. Legshots are hardly fatal instantly.

Depends what hand they shoot with... :P But yes it should definately effect accuracy, movement and maybe the way they hold the weapon; if they can keep hold of it.

I would like to see limping animations too; it would make the game more playable without dropping to the floor everytime you're hit.

Depends where they were hit in the legs; the femoral artery would bleed like a tap - they'd soon be unconscious and they'd very likely be combat ineffective straight away. And it may fracture a bone; but immoblisation is a big step towards them not being as 'super' AI as now. They crawl away from almost every shot - I'd like to see them mix it up.

But agreed; disarming sounds cool!

[Splintert]

While we're at it, why not the ability to actually shoot the gun? It seems odd to me that rifles are able to withstand hundreds of bullet impacts. Carrying a HMG actually works as armor, in the current system.

[eddie247]

Lol 20 bullets to the leg and it probably wouldnt be there anymore. Realism like that is missing from most if not all modern fps / milsims. Roll it on.

Weapon repair kit would be an interesting addition (for hardcore mode maybe? or as a module)

Shooting a weapon from someones hand would be FTW!!

And I totally agree at the weapons acting like body armour. V annoying and amusing at times of boredom (i.e. trying to shoot your teammates weapon without killing them ;))

[2nd Ranger]

Shortly after I got BAF, I was playing a MP game and my gun got hit, and the next time I went to bring up my sight, which was a SUSAT I think, I found myself staring through the irons on top of the sight. I thought my gun getting hit had broken my optic. In reality I had just not yet discovered the CQB sight feature, and had accidentally hit the optic key during a fight.

Your weapon being disabled if hit would be cool, though annoying.

[Flogger23m]

I agree, better animations for throwing grenades; for them to be more reliable. But the problem with ACE's flashbangs is that they could 'flash' you through walls. It didn't detect walls and objects.

I agree completely. Which is why I hope flash bangs are implemented properly in ArmA 3 from the start (or at least in an Arrowhead like expansion).

The grenade throwing is also another issue. To throw a grenade into a door you essnetially have to stand directly in front of it. This kind of voids the usefulness of a flash bang. RO2 and Ground Branch (sadly I doubt this will be released) have added the ability to throw grenades around doors. This is really needed in ArmA 3.

[Steakslim]

All they need to fix the grenade "throwing" complications is to make the grenade go where you are looking...and not 45 degrees higher. I'm gonna say it's pretty much like this is most other fps games, and yeah yeah this is ArmA and BIS has their reasons, but really, just make it simple so you have a better gauge of where you are tossing that nade rather than just "in the direction i'm facing". You are right, to get a grenade into a doorway you have to look down a bit to get it to go straight in.

[Rye]

They need to make it easier for movement and throwing also without doing an animation that makes your character move 20m and at the same time be totally inaccurate and you can't just get out of the animation if a threat is there. I'd like to see an AA2/AA3-like animation of the support hand come out as a guage of where you are throwing it; the system is also good for knowing how far you will throw dependant on the amount of time you hold it down for - Arma is too unpredictable to get a good degree of assurity that you are throwing it 1) in the right place and 2) at the right distance.

[eddie247]

I would also like to see the flashbang implemented correctly.

In order to do this there would need to be a rework of the throwing and or cover systems to allow players to throw the nades around corners.

This could be done possibly with the lean buttons when a grenade is equipped. How that would work to throw into a window above you idk but it would work for throwing into spaces either side of your cover.

Making the grenade launch angle straight from the shoulder unless they are leaning backwards would involve more advanced animation than is current in Arma2. That being said though we know there are changes to be expected in this area so we have to wait and see what the new animations are like.

:cool: