View Full Version : Attidude of many forum members regarding Arma 3
Undeceived
May 27 2011, 08:09
Sorry but...
The Arma 3 forum is full of threads and posts containing lamentations, grumbling and people decrying every single details of the (RECENTLY announced) game that do not conform with their wishes and imagination...
I wonder why people are so... "intelligent" and expect A3 to be the all-in-one game of their dreams, which surely has all of their own wishes and requests... Oh come on... :rolleyes:
And to go further: Suddenly every minor thing in Arma 2 is extremly bad, voice acting is bad, graphics are bad, AI is bad - but Arma 3 will be the god of games. Or at least you expect no less from the devs!
Almost hundreds of posts and threads saying:
"This time do this better!!!"
"Make that right in Arma 3!!"
"For the love of God, do XY / do not do XZ again!!!"
"Listen once to us, the community!!"
"We expect you to add YX this time!!!"
"Change the future setting to present or you might lose me as customer!!"
"[Add more bullshit here]"
This is so annoying - you guys seem to think that BI announced the game and you have to tell them how to make their game, to give them ideas and make them work because they are just sitting there and doing nothing. Suddenly all the experts rise again who know every small detail and crush down everything that is not the way they expect. And without their "expertise" nothing will roll forward...
To be honest I have never seen a community that is so cocky and rude... We have the best developer in the world, I have never heard about a dev that keeps in touch with and takes care so much of his fans as BI does. But it seems that this fact is being ripped off, the freedom is being abused.
So as many others already said, please, please:
GIVE IT A REST
and let them make their game! Be happy that some"thing" like Bohemia Interactive exists at all and that you're not doomed to play Call of Duty and similar games!
Btw. I'm not saying this to people who give suggestions or discuss normally! Suggestions are great and I really hope that BI takes them over into the game. It's just the wrong attitude of many here that I consider extremly out of place.
If I was one of the BI team this forum section would not be my favorit place. Just because among all the constructive contributions you always have to stumble upon the crap I mentioned above.
EDIT: I removed the last part of my post to prevent some smart ass trolling. :D
amadieus
May 27 2011, 08:12
Good post, make it a sticky! :D
DMarkwick
May 27 2011, 08:19
A bug free campaign - that is all.
Moan moan moan.
2nd Ranger
May 27 2011, 08:19
OMG BIS Y U MAKE UP CHOPPERS WTF IS A HAMOK
This entire section should probably be locked and only opened for discussion any time BIS release some new information.
MadDogX
May 27 2011, 08:21
Defunkt put it best:
I want to punch every second poster.
In my opinion, threads that contain ALL CAPS, multiple !!!!s or ????s or the words "for gods sake!" or similar in the title should be deleted on sight.
Undeceived
May 27 2011, 08:21
Moan moan moan.
I knew something like that would come! :D
I hope it was a joke? :o
Sickboy
May 27 2011, 08:22
OMG WTF CH4NG3 1T!!!!!!!11one
(+1)
Liquidpinky
May 27 2011, 08:23
Defunkt put it best:
In my opinion, threads that contain ALL CAPS, multiple !!!!s or ????s or the words "for gods sake!" or similar in the title should be deleted on sight.
Along with the user account creating it.
I am all for freedom of speech but it gets the piss taken out of it a little lot.
Flash Thunder
May 27 2011, 08:24
More like
If BIS dont do XYZ I will hire a sniper, and we will have unknown man is history all day rong!
:)
Tankbuster
May 27 2011, 08:29
/me likes this thread.
BTW zombies pls or i kwit
outerra rox.
Seriously, clicking the new posts button in the last week is akin to punching myself in the face.
Flash Thunder
May 27 2011, 08:31
/me likes this thread.
BTW zombies pls or i kwit
outerra rox.
Seriously, clicking the new posts button in the last week is akin to punching myself in the face.
How does it feel reading my sig over and over and over and over and over again?
Still with me? ;)
Outerra rox BIS should use the magical make Arma 3 super sexy and optimized OpenGL button.
CameronMcDonald
May 27 2011, 08:35
hai guyz i wud like 2 c MOAR CORRIDORS IN ARMA(4-1) for GOD"S SAKER!
becos it wuz unplay-abel on releeese last time 4 reals nd i cn't script
NodUnit
May 27 2011, 08:38
I agree, suggestive threads aren't so bad but demanding threads will just stir drama and most likely the devs won't bother to read it.
Smookie
May 27 2011, 08:38
Oh you are no fun anymore, cameron! :P
Wise post, though obvious :)
MessiahUA
May 27 2011, 08:38
From another standpoint this is all sign of positive overactivity and scrupulous attention to the game in spite of only recent announcement, which is good, it shows a lot of potential buyers (supporters of developer and game) and also feedback (good / bad), which is also important and could be encouraging for developers at some point.
NodUnit
May 27 2011, 08:45
Could be execpt when there is so much complaining about say the futuristic setting or god forbid, the commanche being used.
VanhA-ICON
May 27 2011, 08:46
http://uktv.co.uk/images/standardItem/l1/628734_L1.jpg
Fantastic! Aren't sequels brilliant? They're the same film but with a different number, like two or three. Even bad films are great, 'cause at least they try. In the future, all films will be brilliant. In fact, everything will be brilliant in the future, with cars on monorails, brilliant silvery costumes, food in pills and probably some special futurey can-opener.
Fantastic! And everything will be done by computers. Aren't computers brilliant? They can do anything! Except play football. They'd be no good in goal, but they do everything else, virtually. I'n't virtual reality brilliant? It's exactly like reality, only you wear a hat! I tried it with me brother's crash helmet and I fell down the stairs. Aren't hospitals brilliant?
And for A2.... the only bad thing were the ladders...
:)
mrcash2009
May 27 2011, 10:27
I think, in short, what this is saying is ... "be constructive" as possible :)
From now on, no one say what they think can be improved! Smile and nod and pretend everything couldn't be better!
Liquidpinky
May 27 2011, 10:58
From another standpoint this is all sign of positive overactivity and scrupulous attention to the game in spite of only recent announcement, which is good, it shows a lot of potential buyers (supporters of developer and game) and also feedback (good / bad), which is also important and could be encouraging for developers at some point.
You are saying that now, but once A3 is released all them caps and ones are going to be spammed to shit in the chat box during MP games.
Now convince me it is a good thing.
Sorry but...
blah, blah, blah
And one more little thing:
Surely I also have my wishes for Arma 3 but there is only one thing I would expect from BI: A bug free campaign - that is all.
And yet you do it too... let them make the damn game first then you can all complain about your campaign.
how can anyone complain about anything so far? lol.. we have really no info to bitch over. These days I guess a sentence is enough for people to analyze like CIA code breakers and fight over in forums endlessly.
2nd Ranger
May 27 2011, 11:11
These days I guess a sentence is enough for people to analyze like CIA code breakers and fight over in forums endlessly.
Did you just call me a son of a bitch?
InstaGoat
May 27 2011, 11:24
I concur with the OP.
Some people seem to have a large sense of entitlement, or generally think that BI doesn´t know wtf they´re doing. On top of that (though that, thankfully, has let off a bit) is the rivet counting, which isn´t helping either.
People trying to be genuinely helpful I don´t mind, but all this "I demand this" and "That is wrong, take it out." talk is a bit grating.
KeefehB
May 27 2011, 11:28
Have a read through the first few pages of the Arma 2 forum. It's quite funny that back then when OFP2 was confirmed as being in the late 60's people were complaining it wasn't modern (futuristic) enough.
:rolleyes:
Foxhound
May 27 2011, 11:33
To be honest I did not read a single thread in the A3 forums (except this one, the first post at least), I guess I did not miss a thing?
I really cant imagine anyone doing that, and if you are doing it.........why don't you join Armaholic and be a newsposter? You seem to be unable to use your time in a usefull way anyway!
;)
MadDogX
May 27 2011, 11:35
Have a read through the first few pages of the Arma 2 forum. It's quite funny that back then when OFP2 was confirmed as being in the late 60's people were complaining it wasn't modern (futuristic) enough.
:rolleyes:
There will always be complainers, no matter what:
They changed it, now it sucks. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks)
It's the same, now it sucks. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitlezx89c5u5txaj?from=Main.ItIsTheSameNowItSucks)
To be honest though i do wanna see great things with this game and i think the people moaning are doing so because they mainly care about this game and bohemia! I wanna see great things and want the game to do really well! Some do just moan cause they can but others do have a passion for BIS and their work!
wolfbite
May 27 2011, 13:25
Did you just call me a son of a bitch?
Haaaaaah!:p
I think its out of love that people do it... I've made a few posts and then re-read it (After posting... One I even managed to accidentaly insult the great modding community) and thought oh dear god why did I do that... All though there are some people who are just posting total shite just to post.
Its like a really poorly laid out sitcom..
Ebolavirus
May 27 2011, 13:34
Sorry but...
The Arma 3 forum is full of threads and posts containing lamentations, grumbling and people decrying every single details of the (RECENTLY announced) game that do not conform with their wishes and imagination...
Here here!!
I agree with your post. I too am over the poo pooing. BUT in retrospect I "try" keep an open mind. Most people are simply stating their opinions, though may be perceived as complaining, it does and always will generate constructive discussion about a certain element in the game they think is distracting. The devs may be able to make some sense of it, but leave it to the moderators to decide what belongs and what doesn't on the forum....
like your ranting about other peoples ranting. plop!
how can anyone complain about anything so far? lol.. we have really no info to bitch over. These days I guess a sentence is enough for people to analyze like CIA code breakers and fight over in forums endlessly.
Agreed. If ppl dont want to read others' wishes, dont click on the threads.
Max Power
May 27 2011, 17:50
Defunkt put it best:
In my opinion, threads that contain ALL CAPS, multiple !!!!s or ????s or the words "for gods sake!" or similar in the title should be deleted on sight.
It's official, then. God plays ArmA.
-=seany=-
May 27 2011, 17:58
And one more little thing:
Surely I also have my wishes for Arma 3 but there is only one thing I would expect from BI: A bug free campaign - that is all.
:D see even you cant help it :p
Undeceived
May 27 2011, 18:01
And yet you do it too... let them make the damn game first then you can all complain about your campaign.
Your post reminds me a little bit of this (linky (http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2006/131/920920_20060512_790screen035.jpg)) - sorry...
But seriously, I think that it's obvious that by saying that I expect a bug free campaign or game I'm not moaning. I'd say there is a tiny difference, no?
I just want what you also said. I want them to make the game. And as good as possible. The details (which is where some people get cocky) are not of highest priority, I have trust in BI that they will do it right.
To be honest I did not read a single thread in the A3 forums (except this one, the first post at least), I guess I did not miss a thing?
I really cant imagine anyone doing that, and if you are doing it.........why don't you join Armaholic and be a newsposter? You seem to be unable to use your time in a usefull way anyway!
;)
:D You won't believe it but I really thought, as I was writing: "You fool, why are you throwing away so much time!!" :D
I think its out of love that people do it...
Love... :eek: Now imagine if you show your love to your gf with such an attitude as some show here!! Poor girl...
EDIT:
:D see even you cant help it :p
Another one... Please read what I wrote to Mosh. :)
To be honest I have never seen a community that is so cocky and rude...
Clearly you've never visited CallofDuty.com :D
On the whole this community is epic
Seriously though, I completely agree. Arma 2 is great and Arma 3 will no doubt be even better.
If you've got criticism at least wait until you've actually played the game before you vomit your resentment all over the forum :D We've not even seen a gameplay trailer yet...
---------- Post added at 07:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------
oh dear god why did I do that...
God without a capital? SCUM!!! :mad: You people just use this forum to spread your terrible terrible hate!!!
:D lol
TheBlessedPig
May 27 2011, 18:51
PLEASE BIS, FOR GOD'S SAKE, MAKE A PROPER TEXTURE FOR THE FLIES IN THE WOODS!!!111!!!??!?!?!1111!11!??
No seriously, the topics are getting more ridiculous by the hour. People should realize this isn't COD nor BF at first, then they also should realize that the game will be modable, so what BIS don't do, the community will and also that BIS nor anybody from the community is here to listen to their moaning about the lack of GIANT FLYING SQUIDS WITH LASER EYES AND TITANIUM TENTACLES!!!
Kristian
May 27 2011, 19:07
This thread is full of win and truth
I hope the suggestions and requests keep coming in. I thought the submarine thread was hilarious. :D
Although agreed that those that demand should be shot on sight.
Splintert
May 27 2011, 19:34
I don't see the point of this thread. It annoys everyone to see some idiot post an idiotic idea, sure.
So what? Just ignore it and let the idiots have their threads.
Max Power
May 27 2011, 19:47
Taking this comment in isolation:
If it annoys everyone, why should we let the idiots have their threads?
there is a report button, i tend to use it quite often myself
PLUS, you can really expect to have the same level of moderation in this mess, where a someguy post a new thread every 20 mins
Innomadic
May 28 2011, 00:51
The voice acting is bad though...
Militantsausage
May 28 2011, 01:44
Yeah all whingers and trolls have seemed to unite in this topic, which is a shame, but anyway good post, definitely worth stickying, OMG Y NO MAP LIKE WHERE I LIVE, I NOT YOUR CUSTOMER ANYMORE, haha just joking, but I do see a lot of people with these kind of posts.
coder4crack
May 28 2011, 10:38
yes... but i likes good filgth sims... :)
yes... but i likes good filgth sims... :)
flashnews: A2/A3 are not flight sims, and never will be. Even if the flight part of the game gets an upgrade (coming from TOH most likely), you won't see the details available in FSX, Falcon or DCS, and i am sure you know it
SWAT_BigBear
May 28 2011, 13:15
...and to think, we only have 1 more year 12 months 365+ days of this. :eek:
Innomadic
May 28 2011, 14:26
flashnews: A2/A3 are not flight sims, and never will be. Even if the flight part of the game gets an upgrade (coming from TOH most likely), you won't see the details available in FSX, Falcon or DCS, and i am sure you know it
At least it should be decent to the point where it does actually take some form of skill to fly. The flight model as is is atrocious.
It takes some form of skill to fly well, that's the important part. How long can you go in a game without wasting a chopper? Minutes? Hours? Weeks? It's very easy for a new player to overcook a landing and clip a tree line, and at the same time it takes a lot of focus to land perfectly in a tight spot, often under fire, time and time again.
I expect the flight model will be improved, as it has with every previous BIS game, especially with ToH now in production.
But that's offtopic, we're supposed to be whining about the whiners aren't we?
Macadam Cow
May 28 2011, 15:14
Funny how people wants more features, more content, better textures, ragdoll, bigger maps, advanced physics,...and in the same time they ask for that very same game not to be ressources hungry.
...uh...not so funny in fact...
Not only BIS develops the only infantry based milsim but they're also offering us the possibility to tune the game as we wish. Giving us (for free !) the tools to create everything we've ever desired.
ArmA is not only this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmdz-Ka1O4Q) but also this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cwa53jR2uQ), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPExkMXGqXs), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjcOU7OztnY), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbYKn5w7tTg), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hmLKkZ7z-8), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS_8m2UyHMA),...
I will never say it loud enough but...
I love you BIS !
Thanks for your hard work and I wish you the best for the future :)
Ebolavirus
May 28 2011, 15:17
geez man turn the lovedar down
I wonder why people are so... "intelligent" and expect A3 to be the all-in-one game of their dreams, which surely has all of their own wishes and requests... Oh come on...
maybe because we love so much OFP and CWC and we have enough of "another super modern shooter" ?
why people do moan ? for most of us first thing is military realism
i thing many would love to see:
- working bulletproof vests
- good realistic dammage (not shooting 15 magazines from M16 to blow-up tank shooting in it's wheel)
- better wound/vital organs simulation
- not bringing too much CoD kids , cause many people in this community are/were real soldiers, not 12 yo fat gammers watching Rambo
- making future placement is sensless - will AI use FLIR ? will AI be blinded by smoke grenade ?
future or modern warfare is not "like fields of WW1 but with SCAR and Multicam", but engine which we know are more for historic games not for modern (lack of many things , wrong simulation of vehicle dammage)
Arma engine we know is best for field infantry war (WW1, WW2, CWC)
in A2 you cannot GPS-lead bomb,
we afraid that instead of realistic simulator we will get "A2 repacked" to "2025 mod" with limits (who need scuba diver if AI won't use FLIR ? or if AI will see you behind bush although it has no FLIR, who need diver if 2 shots in leg kill man, if 300 5.56mm shots in wheel blow up tank, who need super uber APC from 2025 if AI will stuck again in the town without using rear gear )
InstaGoat
May 28 2011, 17:21
maybe because we love so much OFP and CWC and we have enough of "another super modern shooter" ?
why people do moan ? for most of us first thing is military realism
i thing many would love to see:
- working bulletproof vests
- good realistic dammage (not shooting 15 magazines from M16 to blow-up tank shooting in it's wheel)
- better wound/vital organs simulation
- not bringing too much CoD kids , cause many people in this community are/were real soldiers, not 12 yo fat gammers watching Rambo
- making future placement is sensless - will AI use FLIR ? will AI be blinded by smoke grenade ?
future or modern warfare is not "like fields of WW1 but with SCAR and Multicam", but engine which we know are more for historic games not for modern (lack of many things , wrong simulation of vehicle dammage)
Arma engine we know is best for field infantry war (WW1, WW2, CWC)
in A2 you cannot GPS-lead bomb,
we afraid that instead of realistic simulator we will get "A2 repacked" to "2025 mod" with limits (who need scuba diver if AI won't use FLIR ? or if AI will see you behind bush although it has no FLIR, who need diver if 2 shots in leg kill man, if 300 5.56mm shots in wheel blow up tank, who need super uber APC from 2025 if AI will stuck again in the town without using rear gear )
I also hope that A3 won´t be A2 repacked as a 2025 mod, but instead actually will bring functionality into the new features it introduces, and enough polish to existing features to make them actually useable. Bullet proof vests would be awesome too, and I think the damage model has been fixed: now you can´t blow up tanks with rifle ammo anymore. A more detailed damage system for them would be nice though...
Thing is, there is something such as making a constructive, helpful suggestion, and being straightout rude and demanding. Sometimes there´s a thin line there, but it helps to keep in mind that the people you´re adressing (The developers) probably know what they´re doing. If they´re doing it right or wrong, we´ll only see on release day.
coder4crack
May 28 2011, 18:21
flashnews: A2/A3 are not flight sims, and never will be. Even if the flight part of the game gets an upgrade (coming from TOH most likely), you won't see the details available in FSX, Falcon or DCS, and i am sure you know it
well as long as the cockpits are interactive via mouse button clicks, and i can have a wingman, i am satisfied
metalcraze
May 28 2011, 18:26
Vilas got it right.
OFP-ArmA = the only series of games that offer anything close to a simulation for an average joe (aka civilian gamer). And didn't get dumbed down to reach "wide audience" (i.e. your typical raging CoD kiddie). Obviously we want to see the game do its job better.
Losing a CoD clone is easy because there are many CoD clones.
There is only one ArmA.
Max Power
May 28 2011, 19:11
well as long as the cockpits are interactive via mouse button clicks, and i can have a wingman, i am satisfied
Out of all of the things you can reasonably expect out of the aircraft improvements, clickable cockpits are probably at the bottom of the list.
At least it should be decent to the point where it does actually take some form of skill to fly. The flight model as is is atrocious.
And to think that the early criticisms were that they were too hard to fly.
Well part of the ranting craze is obviously caused by the fact that this is the Internet and there is the overall "This right here is my opinion, it matters to me and it should also matter to you" impression you get pretty much everywhere you look on it, which is not always bad, but however brilliant your point might be, if you decide to write it like some 8 year old brat, why the hell should anybody care about it. Generally the standards of communication on the Internet are pretty f***ing sad :yay: And it's certainly not an invention of this community.
InstaGoat
May 28 2011, 20:10
Vilas got it right.
OFP-ArmA = the only series of games that offer anything close to a simulation for an average joe (aka civilian gamer). And didn't get dumbed down to reach "wide audience" (i.e. your typical raging CoD kiddie). Obviously we want to see the game do its job better.
Losing a CoD clone is easy because there are many CoD clones.
There is only one ArmA.
I really doubt that BI are going to dumb the game down... and assuming so because they´re letting their imagination run wild and put their artists to actual work instead of copying real life down to the last rivet is kind of far fetched.
We´re talking about BIS here. Arma has problems: none of them are related to how the seams on the characters ammo pouches are true to their RL counterparts.
What the game needs more urgently are other things, for example in the fields of AI coordination, damage depiction and simulation, and useable high-tech equipment that also works with/for the AI.
For example, as an SP player, the glowsticks in ACE are completely pointless for me, unless some heavy scripting is involved. The AI also doesn´t communicate between squads, and generally operates in a complete deorganized fashion.
But again, this is no reason to get rude at the devs or fellow forum members, and being a demanding dunce with a heightened sense of entitlement. Wait until they release some info, and constructively respond to it, instead of ragequitting the internets forever.
NZXSHADOWS
May 28 2011, 20:28
personally I dont care to much for the rants an rude "Get it Right" type threads or post. Kinda makes me feel embarrassed for the poster. Since BIS has the experience an background in Mil-Sim software. Its not like you can just make shit happen over night. But I wont go into detail about my rant on this. But topics of post should be deleted of locked thats just my opinion doesn't mean much though.
Big Dawg KS
May 29 2011, 01:46
Some people seem to have a large sense of entitlement.
BIS should start charging a subscription fee for forum access. That'll teach people about entitlement. At least then if people still made stupid (otherwise useless) threads BIS would still be making money off of it. :p
---------- Post added at 09:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 PM ----------
Obviously we want to see the game do its job better.
But everyone here has a different opinion of what its job should be. For example, IMO ArmA should aspire to be more like OFP; not extrordinary sim-like, but give a realistic enough and entertaining experience. There are some details that are just not important (like trying to make the game into a full-blown flight sim).
gammadust
May 29 2011, 02:02
BIS should start charging a subscription fee for forum access. That'll teach people about entitlement. At least then if people still made stupid (otherwise useless) threads BIS would still be making money off of it. :p
That is a wild suggestion! No... BIS is making an indirect investment in the forum, no matter how out of touch so many threads you can find, they're still valuable, they gauge the proportion of how realism-arcady their audience is, that would limit the sampling.
When uselessness is rampant... Mods intervene (seen some examples recently).
But everyone here has a different opinion of what its job should be. For example, IMO ArmA should aspire to be more like OFP; not extrordinary sim-like, but give a realistic enough and entertaining experience. There are some details that are just not important (like trying to make the game into a flight sim).
Agree with main point but disagree with the example given. Flight sim part can and should be upgraded, they'r gaining the knowledge (TOH). Though I admit to have been an hardcore flight simmer, as it currently is, does feel too simple.
In many public servers you find dedicated pilots. To add a level of realism (not talking about clickable cockpits but Flight Model at least and a reasonable ammount of controls), this would benefit clans and community in general I think.
Innomadic
May 29 2011, 02:30
I think we should drop the whole "CoD kiddies" tirade, since its quite obvious to anyone who has some form of intelligence that 13-15 years is NOT the only age bracket in which CoD is played, and that at launch many more 24+ people turn up to buy the game.
While their intelligence in their game of choice is lacking, it is neither cool nor correct to call all CoD players "kiddies".
Just sayin.
well as long as the cockpits are interactive via mouse button clicks, and i can have a wingman, i am satisfied
Wingman and proper formations yes, interactive cockpits no. No need for FSX style VC's.
It takes some form of skill to fly well, that's the important part. How long can you go in a game without wasting a chopper? Minutes? Hours? Weeks? It's very easy for a new player to overcook a landing and clip a tree line, and at the same time it takes a lot of focus to land perfectly in a tight spot, often under fire, time and time again.
Nah the game still has some leverage where its still simple enough you'll get people jumping in them who don't 100% know what they're doing, but doing a good enough job at staying in the air they can't fight. Flying and Fighting in an aircraft are two completely different things
Essentially what i mean is some incentive for people who don't know how to fly to simply not do it online, take some time out to practice offline since those who don't and waste air assets get incredibly irritating.
For example i would like to see auto-rudder dropped to allow those with joysticks/pedals to have complete independent control over the aircraft.
coder4crack
May 29 2011, 08:03
In addition to realistic flight model, another way to way to add realism and professionalism to the flight experience is to have persons actually learn the aircraft they are in.
All aircraft have a pre-flight and flight checklist that has to be followed before the plane even starts up!
It doesn't say much, then, that for ALL aircraft, all you have to do is right click, select 'on' from the pop-up menu, and take of... this is a real realism killer if you ask me. Plus, any jack-ass with half a brain can do it. I definitely don't want this kind of person in the same airspace as me!
On the other hand, if you force the flyer to go through actual to semi-actual steps in spooling up engines, setting flaps, instruments, radio, trimming, etc, you will achieve greater immersion, and more skilled pilots in the air, i should think. Also, I will know that who ever is in the air with me took the time to learn a little more of the details involved in what they are doing.
I am not saying model FSX to 100% accuracy. What I am suggesting to BIS is to use some of the better features from the game... especially this one. The opportunity exists, and it should be seized... by the balls.
Interactive and 'click able' cockpits is the way to go to to get the realism we are looking for. The last place you should be setting flaps and spooling engines is from the pop-up menu on right-click. The FAA would go mental if they got wind of this...
I would gladly wait a month or two if they would just put this feature in!
Max Power
May 29 2011, 08:05
personally I dont care to much for the rants an rude "Get it Right" type threads or post. Kinda makes me feel embarrassed for the poster. Since BIS has the experience an background in Mil-Sim software. Its not like you can just make shit happen over night. But I wont go into detail about my rant on this. But topics of post should be deleted of locked thats just my opinion doesn't mean much though.
I agree 100%.
On the other hand, if you force the flyer to go through actual to semi-actual steps in spooling up engines, setting flaps, instruments, radio, trimming, etc, you will achieve greater immersion, and more skilled pilots in the air, i should think. Also, I will know that who ever is in the air with me took the time to learn a little more of the details involved in what they are doing.
Lolno. Currently the flying skill level of the crushing majority of players in Arma 2 is low, even with the current arcade system. They can take off and lock missiles but that's about it. I don't know what you think but I wouldn't find it immersive when only an AI or 1‰ of the playerbase can conduct a successful air support mission without the looming risk of some stupid screwup.
From a mission making point I don't want to weigh the possibility that a pilot role can be filled as intended only in a fraction of the instances a mission is played.
I like the current flight system- sure it can still be refined, but I think it's really fun and it's set at a good difficulty level- it isn't easy, yet at the same time it's a long way from the tedious diffiuclty of flying a real plane.
If people want a flight sim they'll play a flight sim :D.
Innomadic
May 29 2011, 11:35
Lolno. Currently the flying skill level of the crushing majority of players in Arma 2 is low, even with the current arcade system. They can take off and lock missiles but that's about it. I don't know what you think but I wouldn't find it immersive when only an AI or 1‰ of the playerbase can conduct a successful air support mission without the looming risk of some stupid screwup.
Thats the point...those who don't know how won't because its too complex for them...
Thats the point...those who don't know how won't because its too complex for them...
And that's the problem. Most Arma 2 players know how to fly and do basic things with aircraft, albeit not always very expertly. It's preferable to a scenario where each mission's balance or difficulty has to be carefully considered in the probable case that no-one is able to fly aircraft, or only one side has an able pilot.
Aircraft are in a support role in Arma 2. The realism in their case should be based on the outcome of a pilot's intention and not on their detailed mechanics.
2nd Ranger
May 29 2011, 12:08
Thats the point...those who don't know how won't because its too complex for them...
So you are suggesting that BIS make an already complex game even more complicated? There are already people who would label the Arma series 'inaccessible', and it's not in a developer's interest to alienate potential players.
gammadust
May 29 2011, 13:26
Thats the point...those who don't know how won't because its too complex for them...
Not sure exacly that is the most probable outcome of increased complexity. I would bet on increased crashes. :D
Westsailor
May 29 2011, 13:32
Defunkt put it best:
In my opinion, threads that contain ALL CAPS, multiple !!!!s or ????s or the words "for gods sake!" or similar in the title should be deleted on sight.
You can add any reply that sounds like a refugee from that stupid cat site 'I haz a cheezeburger'.
Cripes people... you already blew your education, don't broadcast it.
Innomadic
May 29 2011, 14:52
So you are suggesting that BIS make an already complex game even more complicated? There are already people who would label the Arma series 'inaccessible', and it's not in a developer's interest to alienate potential players.
Compared to even YSFlight Arma 2 is simple, and in some cases works against the player.
Max Power
May 29 2011, 17:29
I think the bigger simplification regarding aircraft is their ability to target and ripple-fire missiles. If they made that aspect more complicated there would be less cheesy helicopter domination.
Big Dawg KS
May 31 2011, 04:22
That is a wild suggestion! No... BIS is making an indirect investment in the forum, no matter how out of touch so many threads you can find, they're still valuable, they gauge the proportion of how realism-arcady their audience is, that would limit the sampling.
When uselessness is rampant... Mods intervene (seen some examples recently).
I hope you didn't think I was being serious. Although I wouldn't be totally opposed to it, it was entirely sarcastic.
Agree with main point but disagree with the example given. Flight sim part can and should be upgraded, they'r gaining the knowledge (TOH). Though I admit to have been an hardcore flight simmer, as it currently is, does feel too simple.
In many public servers you find dedicated pilots. To add a level of realism (not talking about clickable cockpits but Flight Model at least and a reasonable ammount of controls), this would benefit clans and community in general I think.
Aircraft and the flight aspect of the game IMO require the least amount of attention at the moment. While there are some specific improvements that would be great to have, as it is right now it is (unfortunately) inconsistantly superior to the ground combat aspects, which is where the focus of the series should be. My point is, before ArmA can become more like a flight sim, it needs to become a much better ground combat sim first (and I use the term simulation very loosely; realistic but not boring).
gammadust
May 31 2011, 15:30
I hope you didn't think I was being serious. Although I wouldn't be totally opposed to it, it was entirely sarcastic.
yep... my brain must have missed some exit condition in my answer for loop routine. :p
Aircraft and the flight aspect of the game IMO require the least amount of attention at the moment. While there are some specific improvements that would be great to have, as it is right now it is (unfortunately) inconsistantly superior to the ground combat aspects, which is where the focus of the series should be. My point is, before ArmA can become more like a flight sim, it needs to become a much better ground combat sim first (and I use the term simulation very loosely; realistic but not boring).
My bolds. Pretty debatable that "superior" part. My opinion on this is:
Of course, prioritize and get the combat aspects right first (AI improvement specially, fixes and new features), import know how from TOH experience into Arma, keep it simple enough not to become impenetrable for a keyboard pilot while improving realism. Tough compromise to strike yes but can be translated to "just up the flight sim aspect a notch".
Big Dawg KS
May 31 2011, 16:14
import know how from TOH experience into Arma, keep it simple enough not to become impenetrable for a keyboard pilot while improving realism. Tough compromise to strike yes but can be translated to "just up the flight sim aspect a notch".
The fact that Take On is being developed just shows how much more attention the flight aspect is currently getting than the ground combat. To be honest, I think that BIS just has a personal preference for the flight aspect. Any more attention and ArmA 3 might turn into a flight game with ground combat aspects instead of an equally distributed combined arms game. This is my fear; the rest of the game receiving less attention because BIS has a soft spot for aircraft.
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