Steel (ahem..take inspiration) from the popular mods!

[-=seany=-]

Some things the modders just design and create so much better than BIS. BIS can't be blamed for this as the ones who play the game all the time are the ones who understand how things should really be implemented.

The ACE mod is a perfect example of this. They got so many things right that it should be no question when it comes to BIS looking for ways to improve the game for Arma3.

Things like how back packs work; BIS don't need to take the idea and make it slightly different (like they did with OA) they need to take it lock, stock and all.

The same for vehicle Fire Control Systems and Laser Range Finding. In ACE this is perfect, and was since before Operation Arrowhead came out. BIS took the idea and half implemented it for OA. Why can't they just copy it exactly?

The same for zeroing of hand held weapons and AT launchers. (BIS half implemented the perfection ACE had achieved)

Other notable features that the ACE crew have perfected and should be in Arma3 are:

1.Combat Deafness and ear plugs.

2.Vehicle weapons: The way APDFS tank rounds don't always cause a vehicle to explode, they will kill the crew. Same with AP bullets for APCs. Also tanks blow up in different ways and the ammo cooks off afterwards.

3.Missile guidance (TOW Scalos etc)...Perfect in ACE - Really bad/broken in OA

4.IR strobes and Chem lights that can be attached to the player...Fantastic feature.

5.Ability to adjust NVG intensity

6.Ability to rest weapons/ deploy Bipod etc.

7.Spent shell casings that stay on the ground

I don't think any one would be against the implementation of any of the above, and that's just to name a few.

Then there are the sound mods. We have some real talent in this community, can't BIS just use their sounds/sources? Or get them to help with the sound creation? I mean, I don't think any one would argue that JSRS has the best M1A1 sounds of any BIS release or other sound mod or game for that matter. To be fair with the sounds though, BIS did a really good job of Helo sounds for Operation ArrowHead. But others where absolute garbage, I had a double take when I heard the A10's gun.

Then there are effects mods, like the excellent WarFX. OpticalSnare has some serious talent, I'm sure he wouldn't mind you borrowing some of his effects or helping you with creating new ones. I know there are performance limitations...but from what I have seen so far, he is very savvy when it comes to this. The latest WarFX gives barely any FPS drop for me.

Anyway, there is a wealth of talent here to pick from BIS, please make use of it. And I don't mean make a half arsed attempt at partially implementing some thing..Copy it verbatim and make it better, if it needs it...

[Daniel]

+1 on this, I might not be ACE's biggest fan but there are some features that I sorely miss when I game without it.

Weapon resting and proper missile ballistics and targeting should definitely feature in the core game.

[Prydain]

Don't you mean 'Steal'?

But, yeah, why not?

[Zio Sam]

100% agree with Seany.

[Windexglow]

Only if they iron out the kinks in those mods!

[Double Doppler]

AI features from the SLX mod should be intergrated too. And the wounding system

[Avgeris]

3.Missile guidance (TOW Scalos etc)...Perfect in ACE - Really bad/broken in OA

6.Ability to rest weapons/ deploy Bipod etc.


I agree only with those, but still they are minor improvements. Game must include pvp missions if you ask me and additions to the engine. And the last is not really used as when you lay down its supposed to be used automatically. It could be attached to a wall or whatever but this might cause bugs and problems.

As for the rokits, I don't really mind, they are not used a lot in pvp missions as its so imba ;)

In general I didn't like ACE, they did some good stuff for the Coopers but not the community in general.

[Grimfist]

I disagree partly,

While ACE has some fantastic features, some I do not like for instance, and would hate them to be in ArmA 3:

1.Combat Deafness and ear plugs.
I dont think its needed, it just adds hastle having to pick up ear plugs, you can shoot an rpk-74 and go deaf, but you can blast away with an ak-74 and you are fine. just adds hassle for no reason.

Then you start going down the 'hardcore sim' line, while realism is good threres no need for some things, such as people suggesting highly complex medical systems. ACE is as far as you need to go i think with bandages, morphine etc - any further and it would stop being fun, and get tedious.

i do agree on the other features though, while ACE is good for clans and realism fans, think some features id rather not have just for the casual game of ArmA.

but yes, I always play with a number of mods like WarFX, chammy's sound mod, Zues AI and a compilation of smaller mods improving the gameplay/animations/GUI etc.

[Yokhanan]

6.Ability to rest weapons/ deploy Bipod etc.

Let's be honest, whether you love, hate, or in-between when it comes to the ACE mod, you have to admit they do have some pretty cool stuff and ideas in there. I agree with the OP, I would love to see more of the above implemented by default right out of the box. I know some hated the whole needing ear plugs and some of the "Accessories", but to me I thought it was great and fun addition.

But if I had to pick only one thing to choose, it would be the weapon rest feature. It's come in handy a lot in missions where I was able to rest against a bit of wall or a ledge or even window with my LMG and being able to give a few bursts without pointing up to the sky.

Other than that, yet I enjoyed packing and using ear plugs, light sticks, etc. and wouldn't mind seeing BIS do this right out of the box. Nice one, Seany! :)

[gho$t]

I really think that bohemia should work with some of the ace devs for arma 3 and make ace a part of the game. Because updating ace and downloading it can get frustrating. Or maybe they can add a regular mode and a ace mode

[InstaGoat]

Way to make an already complicated game even MORE complicated. ACE was nice and fancy when it was out, but for my SP experience, I now prefer vanilla OA simply because I don´t want to put up with all the extra baggage the mod comes with.

I´m largely against anything that can´t be implemented without increasing complexity in controls, or anything that´s a fringe function. If anything, the game needs to become LESS complex in terms of its controls to draw more of a crowd.

Otherwise, the community might dry out even more in the coming five years.

[-=seany=-]

Yeah, I don't really want it much more complex either and perhaps Deafness and Ear plugs are too personal also. But most of the other suggestions would not over complicate things, they would be pretty seamless. It's mainly the way the mods are better at implementing systems than BIS. The perfect example of this is the way the Ranging and Fire Control is done in tanks/vehicles. Both ACE and vanilla do this, but the way the ACE team implemented it is far better.

Oh yeah..Steel/steal...oops FPDR

[Tonci87]

I agree that at least Weapon rest should be made vanilla!

[Avgeris]

I really think that bohemia should work with some of the ace devs for arma 3 and make ace a part of the game. Because updating ace and downloading it can get frustrating. Or maybe they can add a regular mode and a ace mode

what about those that dont like ACE?

[Amra]

what about those that dont like ACE?

What about those who like?

[Smookie]

What about those who like?

They can download it, as always... Those who dont like it shouldnt be forced to withstand the pain :)

[Daniel]

Absolutely, we're only talking individual features that the community have come up with that would benefit the vanilla game experience.

[mr.g-c]

+1 on the OPs opinion.

[ST_Dux]

1.Combat Deafness and ear plugs.
You mean there are people who actually think this is a worthwhile feature?

[Zipper5]

My opinion on the matter:

1: Disagree.
2: Agree.
3: Agree.
4: Agree.
5: Agree.
6: Definitely agree.
7: Agree.

Sound mods: many of them are sounds that have copyrights. If BIS were to sell their games with sounds that are copyrighted like that, and they don't have permission, there would be lots of potential for legal trouble. Mods get away with it because they are not making any money.

Effects mods: Arma 2's effects were made by Maddmatt I believe, who made the most popular effects mod (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=1650) for Armed Assault.

Edit: ST_Dux and I share the same opinion on 1. Keep it in mods.

[Yokhanan]

You mean there are people who actually think this is a worthwhile feature?

WHAT?! I can't hear you! *points at ear protection that look like giant Vulcan ears* :p

[Sickboy]

Some features that ACE had in A1 and A2, and some in WGL back in OFP, have made it one way or another into the game, especially OA;
- Rucksacks
- CSW (Crew Served Weapons)
- Sights adjustment
- CQB sight mode
- Several assets
- Flashlights
- IR Strobes
- FLIR / TI
- Tank FCS
- A2 Tracers
- A2 Wounding system

I think they certainly take inspiration from community mods.
Let's see what A3 brings :) Certainly pushes the community's creativity... what to come up with next, or how to improve :)

But, options / configurability is certainly preferred, especially in consideration of realism features.
But let's be honest; that has always been the series strong suit.

[ProfTournesol]

Some features that ACE had in A1 and A2, and some in WGL back in OFP, have made it one way or another into the game, especially OA;

Because brilliant and innovative work is always an inspiration for all, and obviously for BIS devs. Hope they make you know it.

[NeMeSiS]

As long as i dont get that stamina system forced upon me i am happy. It may not be good in the default game but i personally find ACE's implementation to be much worse.

[gho$t]

what about those that dont like ACE?

Like i said, i think there should be a regular mode and a acemode. Meaning it can be disabled and enabled. Sorta like other games have a regular and hardcore mode

[AnimalMother92]

WHAT?! I can't hear you! *points at ear protection that look like giant Vulcan ears* :p

Hell, they already modeled the ear protection, might as well make it functional right? :p

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/macmeister92/A2OA_ingame_screenshot_03.jpg
http://www.botachtactical.com/pelcomtac.html

In my humble opinion, the more of these systems BIS implements into vanilla A3 the better. I agree with the OP though, that they should be fully embraced rather than partially.

OA made several features of ACE for A2 obsolete (http://ace.dev-heaven.net/wagn/Changes_in_ACE_for_OA), features that people seem to enjoy in their vanilla OA. It is sad though to see partially implemented features like IR strobes in OA (that you oddly can't attach to yourself). The list goes on but I won't get into that.

I just think it would be really beneficial if BIS stepped it up and brought in some of the features that have been mentioned.

[Blu3sman]

For me the most brilliant feature of ACE is sight adjustment system. It is functional, it is realistic, has no issues. Especially in latest version with animated reticles, front focal plane reticles, correct elev adjustment steps. At the moment it's almost perfect.
That's the way it always should have been in vanilla.
I'm quite confused to see the same fictional PSO reticle since Arma 1 to OA. And even in OA you can not set elevation with SVD. Aaargh, it is not BDC!:mad:(well it is after 1000m) Totally unplayable..
So BIS, Ctrl+C Ctrl+V please;)

[Cadmium77]

I really think that bohemia should work with some of the ace devs for arma 3 and make ace a part of the game. Because updating ace and downloading it can get frustrating. Or maybe they can add a regular mode and a ace mode

Exactly. This is the essence of it. Why reinvent the wheel. Just tweak the game by bringing in the work of modders who do it out of a labor of love.

[PuFu]

My opinion on the matter:

1: Disagree.
2: Agree.
3: Agree.
4: Agree.
5: Agree.
6: Definitely agree.
7: Agree.

just the same :)

[Smurf]

Most ACE features just enhance the game in overall without extra complications (especialy those related to night warfare).
From the top of my head, the features that I wouldn´t put in the vanilla game is the stamina system, deafness, new explosives system and the whole battery (ok to the need to have the "ammo"; load\unload\prepare is too much for the vanilla)

[Dissaifer]

I'm torn about this. There was stuff in ACE that I just didn't use, it was nice to have though, and there were other things I felt like, well this is a mil-sim, why wasn't this in the game.

Then I think... this is a game. I don't always want realism out of it. You get shot, a medic comes and heals you, your back in the game :)

Maybe add the stuff as a default? Then you can turn it off and on... up to the modders of course.

[ArmAriffic]

Dont forget about back blast for launchers but yes, it's a good idea to implement more ace features (weapon resting, ect)

[Steakslim]

OH god yes back blast.

I remember when Ace for ArmA2 came out, and there were hilarous videos of teammates getting taken out by the backblast because they weren't used to it, or oblivious to the feature itself lol. Same with tank overpressure.

[DerKonig]

Weapon resting, rocket blow-back, individual weapon ballistics, auto-rotation, all things I want to see.

Don't want to see combat deafness or the ridiculous high-G blackouts (The pilots wear G-suits...).

[5LEvEN]

Yes BIS SHOULD look at community made mods.... It would definitely improve the game..

[CameronMcDonald]

auto-rotation

Yeeeahhh already present.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB74px8f_ts

[Rye]

Yes BIS SHOULD look at community made mods.... It would definitely improve the game..

This. Analyse the most popular first, they are popular for a reason!

[Tonci87]

Ah Yes, Backblast and Tank Overpressure. Always good for a laugh.

[metalcraze]

A lot of features from ACE should be implemented.
If some feel too complicated - implement them on optional basis.

Things that ACE offers like weapon resting, better wind simulation, better optics adjusting and zeroing, better medical system, better tank/armored vehicle stuff (more realistic ammo types, realistic range finder laser, more realistic damage), MFDs in aerial vehicles - are a must.

[])rStrangelove]

While i respect all the brainpower and work which Sickboy and his cronies have put into ACE, i gotta say ACE is not for everyone. At the end of the day some guys just want to play realistic missions without fiddling around with bandages, earplugs and weapon resting features that accidently lock up your aiming in the worst possible moment.

So plz, some mods should stay mods without going into the vanilla game.

It's like saying ArmA3 should boost PvP. Plz stop with your elitism.

[Rye]

)rStrangelove;1937406']While i respect all the brainpower and work which Sickboy and his cronies have put into ACE, i gotta say ACE is not for everyone. At the end of the day some guys just want to play realistic missions without fiddling around with bandages, earplugs and weapon resting features that accidently lock up your aiming in the worst possible moment.

So plz, some mods should stay mods without going into the vanilla game.

It's like saying ArmA3 should boost PvP. Plz stop with your elitism.

Neglect the whole mod because of a few things you don't like? Talk about elitism. They could easily be tweaked by BIS to get to their standards, whatever they are.

http://ace.dev-heaven.net/wagn/Documentation
Click "Features" and tell me, with all honesty, how can you reject all 95 features over one point of view?

Surely most will not make it but there are some brilliant ones that should.

[DMarkwick]

Neglect the whole mod because of a few things you don't like? Talk about elitism. They could easily be tweaked by BIS to get to their standards, whatever they are.

http://ace.dev-heaven.net/wagn/Documentation
Click "Features" and tell me, with all honesty, how can you reject all 95 features over one point of view?

Surely most will not make it but there are some brilliant ones that should.

ACE is great, but it should be modular to have more appeal IMO. I know I know - it's not the design philosophy, and I accept that, but still I think it'd be more useful as a modular addon suite.

As such, a lot of features added into ArmA3 should be modular. Medic systems, stamina systems, all can be made as editor placed modules. That way maximum flexibility is assured.

[PuFu]

Neglect the whole mod because of a few things you don't like?
It is called option of choice really. I been with ACE, and still i wouldn't want some feature in the vanilla game. There are some that i am sure it will find there place in though.

anyways, there are a lot of other addons and mods that BIS should be looking over, besides ACE

[SpetS15]

Agree!!!

[Sickboy]

ACE is great, but it should be modular to have more appeal IMO. I know I know - it's not the design philosophy, and I accept that, but still I think it'd be more useful as a modular addon suite.

As such, a lot of features added into ArmA3 should be modular. Medic systems, stamina systems, all can be made as editor placed modules. That way maximum flexibility is assured.The design philosohpy is providing and supporting an ACE default, with configurability for many components, and modules to handle things, like you can turn off the Stamina system.

If you take a close look at ACE you will find that a great many things are configurable out of the box in ingame settings, userconfig and serverconfig,
while many other things are configurable per mission in the form of modules and global variables, and even globally by creating a server-side-addon (also valid for SP).
http://ace.dev-heaven.net/wagn/ACE_Settings_Userconfig_and_Clippi (http://ace.dev-heaven.net/wagn/ACE_Settings_Userconfig_and_Clippi)
http://ace.dev-heaven.net/wagn/API (http://ace.dev-heaven.net/wagn/API)

Not to mention the fact that our assets for various factions are available in seperate mod-folders, while the ACE core is usable on it's own too.
Splitting it further up only complicates MP; missing an addon, having an addon too many, fairness; advantages, disadvantages etc.
Ref appeal, I think we're doing alright :) Our goal has never been to satisfy everyone (out of the box).

Other than that, the game is highly modable as evident by the many great mods available, the same counts for ACE;
If we do not provide an API for it, there's nothing stopping you from overriding or changing behaviour / config / scripts (functions, etc), just like any other mod does for the original game.
This option is often overlooked, perhaps because people don't know (or realize) about it, but doesn't change the fact that beyond the out of the box configuration, you have all freedom to do whatever you want, however you want.
Configure, supplement, and modify, either by API or by casual modding practices; plenty of options ;)
http://ace.dev-heaven.net/wagn/Modification

In short; it can be as configurable and as modular as you want it to be, while we provide you with our vision, scope and goals, beyond that it is in your hands.

But in ref to implementation in A3, I certainly agree that modular and configurable is preferred, but once more - that is already the case even for things that are not provided by modules, through modifying the config.

[DMarkwick]

I think we're doing alright :) Our goal has never been to satisfy everyone.

Oh yeah don't get me wrong - ACE is a great product. No question :) and I fully understand the value of not trying to please everbody ;) my own addons are only designed to please me :D

To be fair, I base my opinion on a readme/post/blog from a long time ago where it suggested that PBO files cannot/should not be removed as there are cross-dependencies. And of course it's certainly true that I cannot simply add one single PBO from ACE into my addon mix, it's definately an all-or-nothing addon suite, with options.

Which is OK, it's the design paradigm. ACE is a game solution not an addon suite, I just make the point for some elements being integrated into a new ArmA build being modular.

[Sky999]

The problem with ACE and ACRE is that immediately after they were made, it made BIS using them extremely difficult without looking like complete thieves.

:raisebrow:

[PuFu]

The problem with ACE and ACRE is that immediately after they were made, it made BIS using them extremely difficult without looking like complete thieves.

:raisebrow:
i would take it as a compliment if features i designed makes into a final vanilla product

[gnrnr]

ACRE is an absolute must include in Arma 3.

[Sickboy]

To be fair, I base my opinion on a readme/post/blog from a long time ago where it suggested that PBO files cannot/should not be removed as there are cross-dependencies. And of course it's certainly true that I cannot simply add one single PBO from ACE into my addon mix, it's definately an all-or-nothing addon suite, with options.Yea in essence, but the point I was trying to make is that even though you are required to run all pbo's from the core mod,
this does not directly mean you must run/use all the features.

Even if the API does not provide you with the options you are looking for, you can still accomplish anything you want by overriding configs, scripts/functions, or even complete pboprefix paths :)

Take the BIS CrewServedWeapons and Rucksacks in OA for example.
They don't require you to place any module, but if you don't want to use them you can:
- Simply not provide these items in your mission
- Override the config and disable backPack/CSW config properties effectively disabling the system etc.

If you don't want to use sightadjustments you can disable the key in the controls, or also override the properties in the config.

But other than that, you are right, it is not designed as seperate self contained components that you can freely mix and match just based on adding/removing a bunch of pbo's.

In any case, for the features directly in the game, I think:
- For realism features it should be a difficulty option
- Major gameplay changers like Stamina and Wounding system I think certainly should stay optional, placeable by module, or perhaps also as difficulty option could work
- For being able to do additional things like Cargo, SightAdjust, Ruck, etc, these don't really need much options IMO

[gnrnr]

Ah Yes, Backblast and Tank Overpressure. Always good for a laugh.

I remember a long time ago, Rommel was playing around with being able to move around in a chinook and enable firing from the open rear door etc. We mucked around and eventually someone pulled out an antitank launcher and fired down from the open rear door. The helo blew and crashed, all cause of the backblast we had all forgotten about. Funny as at the time.

[Rye]

I remember a long time ago, Rommel was playing around with being able to move around in a chinook and enable firing from the open rear door etc. We mucked around and eventually someone pulled out an antitank launcher and fired down from the open rear door. The helo blew and crashed, all cause of the backblast we had all forgotten about. Funny as at the time.

Hahahahaha I remember this. Attachto FTW!

[Goos]

To be blunt getting too complicated with a lot of things will turn people off the game and the point of running a business is to attract new customers not turn current ones away. Things like deafness and passing out after running for too long does and will anoy the hell out of people I know it just serves to tick me off. hence why I never use ACE there is too much that just plain anoys me. I mean seriously if I run to exaustion I can tell you right now I don't flippin black out I slow down and oh yeah that's what happens in ArmA by default but not to the point of being anoying so to be honest they are nailing things pretty well. Remember at the end of the day this is a game.

Enhancements with no negative effects are definatley something to bring in though such as weapon resting, strobes attached to units for identification in night missions these are all good things backblast from rockets could be a 50/50 but to be honest people should be watching where they are going so it can't be bad in my book. Tank blasts and explosion blasts that go off close to players should cause a temporary deafness like you typically see in shooter games with flashbangs (obviously without the blindness) hearing a ringing in the ears and nothing else before fading a few seconds later is as real as it needs to be.

Like I say making things over complicated is a bad idea OA nailed a lot of things nicely with backpacks and whatnot but I suppose you could add extra bumf in a selectable realism mode or something for the people who want it. In fact this realism mode could work client side so the online gaming community doesn't get split. Example: 2 guys on 1 server. 1 has realism on the other has it off. deafness blacking out with exaustion it could all happen on the realism guys machine as it only effects him but not the other as that is how they both like to play. This would be twitchy in player vs player but then that could be server selectable in that case. Food for thought.

[Avgeris]

What about those who like?

they can play with it, but it doesnt needed to be implemented in the game