They better have female soldiers...

[Dibuk]

...The females in Arma 2 was on pair with the wildlife, which is kinda odd and lazy of the developers.

This time according to the story, the "main" faction is about to be "driven in to the sea", this means they are probably pretty desperate, that means enlisting every able man OR woman.
No matter what you have say about the females in various countries today (Not only the US as so many refers to) the future story of Arma 3 seems to call for irregulars and desperate messures.

And of course all the girls that play arma 2 will probably love to have female soldiers in the game.

[Innomadic]

Girls? On the internet? Playing games? Have you gone completely mad?

[SpetS15]

yeah! for the 2-3 only girls in the entire Arma community...

[Beagle]

And of course all the girls that play arma 2 will probably love to have female soldiers in the game.This are just guys using female names. I have not met any real girl, women, wife or girlfriend that likes such games or likes partners playing games so far and I never will fore sure. The only SIM I know of girls play sometiemes is THE SIMS

[Rye]

Playing Arma 3? Lol.

Nah, I agree, women on the frontline in 10-30 years (near future setting) would probably be more feasable. Aren't some already allowed? And the story line sounds like a lot has kicked off, probably aiming towards the guerrilla war scenario which would accept female soldiers in the equation. I don't see why not...

[Beagle]

Playing Arma 3? Lol.

Nah, I agree, women on the frontline in 10-30 years (near future setting) would probably be more feasable. Aren't some already allowed? And the story line sounds like a lot has kicked off, probably aiming towards the guerrilla war scenario which would accept female soldiers in the equation. I don't see why not...Allowed is one thing, actualy there is another. In german army combat duty for women is granted since 2001..BUT..they usually seek better jobs in the forces far from combat...rushing to get officers in less than 2 years and making it to the army universitay in less than 3 years..no time for combat. The only women I personally know that had been to A-Stan was a army-doctor starting her carrer as "Oberleutnant" (1st Lt.) already. In german army you will hardly find women in the lower ranks as this is in no way a attractiv nor well payed job.

In fact the demand for Army carrers is currently declining amongst women...the job is simply not attractive.

[MadDogX]

And the story line sounds like a lot has kicked off, probably aiming towards the guerrilla war scenario which would accept female soldiers in the equation. I don't see why not...
^^ This.

Looking at the single player campaign description "Evolve from a lone prey into a military commander", and some of the other background info that we've recieved, it seems that Miller will land on the island and start recruiting the subjugated locals into a militia in order to overthrow the occupants (probably Iran/China).

It would make sense for women to play an active role along with the men. I would also love to see some real female characters with an actual personality, since those are few and far between in shooters.

[PeterBitt]

i never understand why a male player wants to use a female characters in games. seeing all those 35kg, child faced, japanese anime girls with 20kg guns and warpaint makes me realy sick...

please no female soldiers in arma series!

[DMarkwick]

I'm not crazy for the idea. For my purposes I don't really mind what sex soldiers are in the game, they're representations only they only have to be dressed appropriately and act accordingly. As such, I have no use for different sex soldiers. Having said that, I also have no use for different race soldiers, but I acknowledge the immersion value of having them.

If female soldiers are a possibility, I'd like to see different body types of ALL soldiers, tall, short, fat, thin etc.

On a real-world pragmatic level, female soldiers are a distraction, and are viewed differently in combat situations (just think about a girl soldier in your squad in some amount of trouble vs a male soldier, and try to be as honest as possible when considering your reaction to that) and there are other pragmatic considerations for different sexes in the field.

We don't have to like it, but there are pragmatic considerations for female soldiers that are not going to go away in the future. Female soldiers might be suited to support roles however.

IMO natch :)

[Rye]

i never understand why a male player wants to use a female characters in games. seeing all those 35kg, child faced, japanese anime girls with 20kg guns and warpaint makes me realy sick...

please no female soldiers in arma series!

It's not that, it's the fact that women in-game would be able to use weaponary. About time.


If female soldiers are a possibility, I'd like to see different body types of ALL soldiers, tall, short, fat, thin etc.

Wouldn't we all, but doubt it would happen unless customisation turned into something along the lines of an RPG. Lol, doubt it.

[mant3z]

i never understand why a male player wants to use a female characters in games. seeing all those 35kg, child faced, japanese anime girls with 20kg guns and warpaint makes me realy sick...

please no female soldiers in arma series!

It's simple, because they don't have a real one in their life ;)
Those like we, which have got a wife or girlfriend don't wont to have girls in ArmA because we search world without them. Specialy after the wedding :rolleyes: when you girlfiend turns in to the tyran and annoy you of all the time :mad:

[PeterBitt]

sorry for chouvinism, but i cant find it realistic to see a skinny woman shooting a m240 or something...
and when you say that it would fit to story line, we would need to have some children with weapons too ... sorry but weapons and war belongs to the man.

for sure it would be coold if females could do all the animations that the males can do, but PLS dont add armed women to the campaign or predefined units.

[NodUnit]

It's simple, because they don't have a real one in their life ;)
Those like we, which have got a wife or girlfriend don't wont to have girls in ArmA because we search world without them. Specialy after the wedding :rolleyes: when you girlfiend turns in to the tyran and annoy you of all the time :mad:

A tad presumptious isn't it? Some want them in not so much to look at but because A. they exist and that is good enough, but as I've heard it more importantly B. the fact that women could pick up weapons and use them in OFP.

I would support it because it would be something different, but while it would be nice to give players more options for whatever gender they prefer, in the end all I see is the uniform and classify it as a target or friendly, shoot em all the same.

As for girls not playing..stop trolling guys, you know women enjoy killing just as much as we do and are just as if not more violent, anyone who has seen a real cat fight knows that well enough.

[Innomadic]

This are just guys using female names. I have not met any real girl, women, wife or girlfriend that likes such games or likes partners playing games so far and I never will fore sure.

I have actually...

[CameronMcDonald]

Yeah, my fiancée is one of those few who will sit and watch me play through an entire ShackTac Saturday. Lucky me. :D

...and she kicks my arse at Starcraft 2.

[RavenDK]

Sigh...

1. I agree that we should have female soldiers.
2. Get over it, its a girl.. so what, its not like you can date a computer made girl in a game. Grow up..
3. There are more girls playing arma than you know, moste just dont tell you they are cos the dont want to listen to the regular bullshit abt "uuuuh a girl"

[Innomadic]

Sigh...
2. Get over it, its a girl.. so what, its not like you can date a computer made girl in a game.


Sorry, but looking at how popular the old arab guy face is as a character skin online, we're gonna see all female armies flooding the public servers.

[mant3z]

Sorry, but looking at how popular the old arab guy face is as a character skin online, we're gonna see all female armies flooding the public servers.

:ok:
+1

[Ebolavirus]

well there are ladies that do play arma2. they're not as vocal online as the guys, obviously, but their presence is certainly a welcome addition. I'm not sure if a female character is something they would choose, but i do think it should be an option. if anything, being inclusive is the way to go.

blonde, blue eyes and legs that go all the way with PhysX features any man would die for isn't the type of character I'm refering to either.

[Sky999]

Women? In the military? How deliciously absurd!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Kx5u8FHAQJk/TApm79gGEmI/AAAAAAAAAAM/qw4zgi7voCg/S220/rich-snob.jpg

[antoineflemming]

Here's my two cents: I agree there should be some female units in the game. Maybe pilots. Maybe MPs. If they have any specifically infantry units (of course they will), then those should be male only (if they are U.S. forces). There should be females only based on the nationalities of the units that are in the game. Like, if Israel is in the game, then you'd have more female infantry units. For the U.S., like I said, you could have female MPs or pilots, but no infantry roles. That way you include female units in the game and in a way that is still realistic and authentic. That way everyone should be satisfied and there is no compromise in realism.

[Beagle]

Yeah, my fiancée is one of those few who will sit and watch me play through an entire ShackTac Saturday. Lucky me. :D

...and she kicks my arse at Starcraft 2.YouTube footage, or it did not happen!

Women wil not be in ArmA 3 as soldier because the animations are too difficult to master.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfNbRhjy9HA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iqYznDU1gY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjMADPkivxM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGCBQPr-c4k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-7egKjoM6Y&feature=relmfu

Or simply introduce a 50% aim penalty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCzOLEoko6o&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqhqexbt3i0&feature=related

[Sky999]

In all seriousness I definitely wouldn't mind female units in the form of pilots for example, but I'd have to stress to BIS to please for the love of god get the numbers correct.

So far we've seen that BIS, when including a new type of person into already existing units, they tend to go a little overboard. Remember when we had the BAF DLC? That was fine, until the PMC DLC made every squad in the British army have an inexplicably explained Chinese member...

So to sum up, I'm all for women, but keep them realistic in their numbers and realistic in their roles on the battlefield.

[MadDogX]

Yeah, my fiancée is one of those few who will sit and watch me play through an entire ShackTac Saturday. Lucky me. :D

...and she kicks my arse at Starcraft 2.
Mine (occasionally) plays Left 4 Dead 2 with me. Can anyone beat that? :D

Btw. I think this discussion is kind of going off on a tangent. Peeps are asking for women in the game to at least be able to use a gun, not to allow people to play as women whenever they want. Women may not be on the front line a lot, but them not being able to pick up a gun at all isn't really realistic either.

[PeterBitt]

i prefer good looking grils rather than the ones that use to play games :p
but seriously it turns me off to talk about gaming with a girl ... same for cars and soccer.
omg iam a true chauvinist.

@<hidden>: these vids made my day :)

[MadDogX]

i prefer good looking grils rather than the ones that use to play games :p
Those two attributes aren't mutually exclusive. ;)

[CameronMcDonald]

Mine (occasionally) plays Left 4 Dead 2 with me. Can anyone beat that? :D

We also used to play UT2004 and UT3 together, back in the day.

While we're romping through offtopic land, I once tried to introduce her to Steal the Car from CWC. I warned her to be cautious. She scoffed, ran around the corner, and was promptly shot by the Soviet rifleman standing across the square.

She then said "Can we play something fun now?" That was the last time she ever touched a BIS title. :p

[Sky999]

If we were to have women, are they going to be realistic models of the average female soldier?

http://www.novinite.com/media/images/2005-09/52942.jpg

http://www.buzzhunt.co.uk/wp-content/2011/01/Iran.jpg

or what we all dream of seeing in our units? ;)

http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww264/JammyDodger/lance_corporal_katrina_hodge_-_combat_barbie.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_tUKk-H056vY/SOX4_n9vVWI/AAAAAAAAFfU/HVwBtdC6rFQ/s400/female-soldiers-2844.jpg

[Innomadic]

i prefer good looking grils rather than the ones that use to play games

My friend happens to be good looking and has fun slashing up Locust in Gears of War in co-op...

[Beagle]

I'm trying for 3 year now to persuade my girlfriend to go for some shooting with me on the range...will have camera with me the day it happens.

---------- Post added at 01:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 PM ----------


If we were to have women, are they going to be realistic models of the average female soldier?

or what we all dream of seeing in our units? ;)

that's propaganda material, no actual real life footage.

[PeterBitt]

http://www.novinite.com/media/images/2005-09/52942.jpg
ok this one might be a good soldier, she would be a good man too

[Sky999]

I'm trying for 3 year now to persuade my girlfriend to go for some shooting with me on the range...will have camera with me the day it happens.

---------- Post added at 01:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 PM ----------



that's propaganda material, no actual real life footage.

Which ones? The above two are real, the British soldier won Miss England, and as for the other Finnish girl...I simply don't know.

[DieterWeber]

I think this is a terrible idea. The thought of female soldiers in the field is absurd. They are a danger to other soldiers; thus they are not combat effective.

[antoineflemming]

@<hidden>, as far as "in the field" is concerned, you talking about infantry or simply "in theater"? I agree, maybe not female soldiers as in infantry, but you could have female units. And, besides, if that doesn't fall through, players will surely have female civilians that they could give weapons...

[DieterWeber]

All i'm saying is that there should be no female infantry.

[Beagle]

Which ones? The above two are real, the British soldier won Miss England, and as for the other Finnish girl...I simply don't know.As I said...pictures made for propaganda use.

[Sky999]

As I said...pictures made for propaganda use.

I'm pretty sure the first one isn't for proaganda use...

Also the Miss England girl is an actual soldier. ;)

[NodUnit]

YouTube footage, or it did not happen!

Women wil not be in ArmA 3 as soldier because the animations are too difficult to master.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfNbRhjy9HA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iqYznDU1gY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjMADPkivxM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGCBQPr-c4k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-7egKjoM6Y&feature=relmfu

Or simply introduce a 50% aim penalty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCzOLEoko6o&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqhqexbt3i0&feature=related

Give me some footage of a female SOLDIER at a firing range rather than civilians who appear to have never held a firearm before, there is a big difference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD-KaUl_olo&feature=related

[ProfTournesol]

Give me some footage of a female SOLDIER at a firing range rather than civilians who appear to have never held a firearm before, there is a big difference.


Indeed. The phallocratic level of this topic has reached its best, given the fact that the question isn't if the women can go in the Army but if they should be included in ArmA3.

[NodUnit]

For the record. http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=12248

[ProfTournesol]

Oh shi you caught me before the edit.

Corrected ;)

[NodUnit]

Argh stop that.:whistle:

[dale0404]

Why am I thinking about Lara Croft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lara_Croft)?

[NodUnit]

I duno, why does one of those pictures remind me of Revy from Black Lagoon? (crap crap so off topic gotta get self back in line)

[Beagle]

I'm pretty sure the first one isn't for proaganda use...

Also the Miss England girl is an actual soldier. ;)Thats the propagande don't you see...? Propaganda does not mean a Lie. It's the usage of a nice truth to hide a ugly truth behind it. That's the way Propaganda works.

[Hoot1988]

I foresee some nudity mods being developed if this is the case...

[NodUnit]

It wouldn't be the first time.

[johanna]

yeah! for the 2-3 only girls in the entire Arma community...

Implying that im not a girl, im a 30 year old male with a girlfriend named johanna...
Don´t know why i picked this shitty nickname...

so there is only 1-2 girls left

[Beagle]

As I said...it's just a few guys with female names as nicks.
Girls playing Shooters is a urban legend..I only knkew one once but she gave it up after completing school.

Girls have no time for gaming. Either they do household or are busy with academic careers.

[Innomadic]

Rule #30, you don't exist.














but then consider Rule #20...


EDIT:


Implying that im not a girl, im a 30 year old male with a girlfriend named johanna...
Don´t know why i picked this shitty nickname...

so there is only 1-2 girls left

Yeah this is actually more common than it sounds, guys pretending to be girls for reasons only a deity could know...so forgive us if we (or I as it may be since i'm relatively new on the boards (not new to arma though :P)) if we don't believe it at first :D

[EDcase]

I vote 'no' to female models.

BIS have more important things to work on than cater for the handful of real female players or kinky guys.

These fine models can always be converted to ARMA3 http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=12248

[.Taffy]

I think female soldiers should be included in a combat role. At the moment it (at least in the British Army, I think) women are allowed to join though aren't allowed roles that guarantee offensive combat. However they are put into positions where at some point they are highly likely to have to defend themselves.

There was a programme on ITV(UK) recently, following some of the soldiers from a logistics group that had to drive resupply vehicles to FOBs in Afghanistan, facing certain attack from the Taliban each time.

It is surely only a matter of time before women IRL take on full combat roles, and in the case of a conflict like the one planned for ArmA3 where NATO was "being pushed into the sea" they would surely be called on to fight. More than that I imaginea huge amount of them would WANT to fight.

[PeterBitt]

even if offtopic: not matter how few men are left, women should never get into combat i think.
while men tend to get angry and feel hate about their enemy while under fire and casulties, women would just collapse and break together when their life is in danger.
and imagine the moral of the men when they saw the first bullet crushing through the beautiful face of one of the girls ... its seriously stupid that we have females in the army nowadays, emancipation should know its limits.

so please BIS stay with your old attitude "no kids and no women".

[kylania]

Czech soldiers, spot the female model:

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/8606/dsc6142d.jpg

[guiltyspark]

I think females should be incorperated into pilot and driver roles for aircraft and land vehicles (both offensive and transport)

The IDF has tons of women in their military and there is no reason to keep them out of the picture.

There are tons of female ah1 and ah64 pilots and from what i understand they are growing in population for roles as jet fighters too.

I see no reason not to include them , but i agree they should not be the ones on the frontlines with m4's with full tactical gear.

---------- Post added at 08:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------


even if offtopic: not matter how few men are left, women should never get into combat i think.
while men tend to get angry and feel hate about their enemy while under fire and casulties, women would just collapse and break together when their life is in danger.
and imagine the moral of the men when they saw the first bullet crushing through the beautiful face of one of the girls ... its seriously stupid that we have females in the army nowadays, emancipation should know its limits.

so please BIS stay with your old attitude "no kids and no women".

you are an idiot

google lyudmila pavlichenko and stfu

[MattXR]

Saying that... this is quite disturbing and sick!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8511010.stm


"I'm told that the statistics are that once you have been raped in the military you are most likely to be raped over and over."

This makes me think of the US Army in totally differnt outlook now >< BIS choose a Differnt Army for ArmA 3

[ryguy]

even if offtopic: not matter how few men are left, women should never get into combat i think.
while men tend to get angry and feel hate about their enemy while under fire and casulties, women would just collapse and break together when their life is in danger.
and imagine the moral of the men when they saw the first bullet crushing through the beautiful face of one of the girls ... its seriously stupid that we have females in the army nowadays, emancipation should know its limits.

so please BIS stay with your old attitude "no kids and no women".

Psh. Stupid.
BIS is just making themselves look sexist by not letting women drive or fly planes or carry guns.

[guiltyspark]

Saying that... this is quite disturbing and sick!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8511010.stm



This makes me think of the US Army in totally differnt outlook now >< BIS choose a Differnt Army for ArmA 3

honestly it wouldnt happen if they were not such a rare occurance in the military

[MattXR]

honestly it wouldnt happen if they were not such a rare occurance in the military

Who says its Rare, no one speaks up to report it as their is consequences :(

[Daniel]

I think he means "rare" as in women are rare in the military. I don't think this is really the place for this discussion though.

[PeterBitt]

you are an idiot

google lyudmila pavlichenko and stfu
now that one women from 1940 realy convinced me mate :j:
back in this time the people where physicaly and psychological much more robust than nowadays ... ahh nevermind, my english isnt good enough to state my point properly.

[guiltyspark]

Who says its Rare, no one speaks up to report it as their is consequences :(

no i meant women are a rare occurance in the US military in most positions.

Not even just that , but the way they are integrated into the system is wrong.

right now some estimates say for every 10 men there is a women serving.

the problem is they are thrown into a unit alone to fend for themselves , and anybody who has served can tell you a marines favorite hobby other than killing is beating off multiple times a day.

IF women were integraded into close groups of 3 or 4 , it would make it safer for them in general , not only because groups would deter things like rape , but 4 women reporting the same sexual offense is ALOT more credible than 1 lone woman saying she was raped (which is often written off here in the states as a cop out for a "slutty girl").

Also there is the fact that women are there for emotional support for each other , guys are there for emotional support when there is pussy on the table.

its a sad fact of life.

Either take women out of the military completely , or integrate them so they can feel safe and not alone in their gender.

---------- Post added at 08:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 PM ----------


now that one women from 1940 realy convinced me mate :j:
back in this time the people where physicaly and psychological much more robust than nowadays ... ahh nevermind, my english isnt good enough to state my point properly.

people are no different today , especially women

[Chrash]

Either take women out of the military completely , or integrate them so they can feel safe and not alone in their gender.

100% Agree, well said

[Brute Force]

sorry for chouvinism, but i cant find it realistic to see a skinny woman shooting a m240 or something...
and when you say that it would fit to story line, we would need to have some children with weapons too ... sorry but weapons and war belongs to the man.

for sure it would be coold if females could do all the animations that the males can do, but PLS dont add armed women to the campaign or predefined units.

Who said the women are skinny?

I once met a female M240 gunner, she was bigger (and stronger) than me. As a child in Siberia, she had to walk 10km everyday to get water from a well and bring it back. Needless to say, the M240 and the army marches were a joke for her.


Give me some footage of a female SOLDIER at a firing range rather than civilians who appear to have never held a firearm before, there is a big difference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD-KaUl_olo&feature=related

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/1245/7331187937a2ebpx3.jpg

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/4816/733118854e8e88wq4.jpg

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4041/733107041584184ix7.jpg

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/3347/dotz141110704scroppedbiay8.jpg 200kb

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BPwvPImn15M/TYqzoNZpEyI/AAAAAAAABF8/3Pm9GZShhcI/s1600/d858310c-752f-4ade-bbe7-494129fc7108.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RNPnaBdvnB4/TYqzoZqerOI/AAAAAAAABGE/FPcwQW2jvvM/s1600/Pg-23-Jerusalem-get_584847t.jpg

[Sky999]

Response to the above post ^

Israel is different. They require everyone to serve and therefore like guiltyspark said, they can get the support they require due to large numbers of other women serving. The US military would be vastly different like he also pointed out. Plus it's yet to be seen how a unit consisting of females would react to fighting a modern enemy, armed to the teeth with well trained and well equipped men, who are their technological equals.


no i meant women are a rare occurance in the US military in most positions.

Not even just that , but the way they are integrated into the system is wrong.

right now some estimates say for every 10 men there is a women serving.

the problem is they are thrown into a unit alone to fend for themselves , and anybody who has served can tell you a marines favorite hobby other than killing is beating off multiple times a day.

IF women were integraded into close groups of 3 or 4 , it would make it safer for them in general , not only because groups would deter things like rape , but 4 women reporting the same sexual offense is ALOT more credible than 1 lone woman saying she was raped (which is often written off here in the states as a cop out for a "slutty girl").

Also there is the fact that women are there for emotional support for each other , guys are there for emotional support when there is pussy on the table.

its a sad fact of life.

Either take women out of the military completely , or integrate them so they can feel safe and not alone in their gender.

[PeterBitt]

Who said the women are skinny?

I once met a female M240 gunner, she was bigger (and stronger) than me. As a child in Siberia, she had to walk 10km everyday to get water from a well and bring it back. Needless to say, the M240 and the army marches were a joke for her.
and how many woman are out there in the world that are bigger and stronger than the average man? not many...
maybe iam chouvinistic but woman (just alike children) have to be protected by the man, thats my natural instinct. to watch how one of the girls you posted gets shot would make me more sick than if it would be my best mate.
ok i shut up now :o

[PuFu]

can someone explain what this fuss is about, and what are the reason FOR wanting them?

[ryguy]

ok i shut up now :o
Cool, thanks. Please follow through on this.

PuFu, maybe read the thread. Arma is a simulator, women in real life are in the military and are able to drive cars.

[Sky999]

can someone explain what this fuss is about, and what are the reason FOR wanting them?

Some people argue that women should be represented in the ARMAVERSE as soldiers. This causes a few issues, for example, the models are different, and also the fact that some consider it unrealistic because women don't play much of a part in combat.

To be frank, the ARMAVERSE still has yet to portray Hispanics in the US military and are just getting around to portraying Asians, I think female soldiers can take a seat at the back of the list of importance.

[SpetS15]

shwi1M1RXLo

[DerKonig]

An over abundance of female service members would be highly unrealistic. Anyone who knows anything about the military is that woman are physically not fit for combat roles, which is why they are not allowed in front line occupations in the military.

If anyone wants to pull any "sexism" card BS, they can follow this link:

http://kitup.military.com/2011/03/breaking-news-commission-recommends-women-in-combat.html

Kit Up is military news blog that is maintained by a retired Navy SEAL and a seasoned military news correspondent, and is frequented by veterans of all nations and branches. In the comments you will find little but utter proof that woman are not fit for combat, and therefore, if Arma 3 is to be more realistic than "dude let's have hawt chicks in the game!", there shouldn't be female soldiers.

There is so much more to focus on than being PC in this game.

[PuFu]

i understand that women could be portreyed in arma, but i don't see it on top of the importance list anyhow. Yes, would be cool to have the option there available, if you ask me not in the profile, but rather as an option for a mission designer.

But then again, i still don't understand the fuss

[ArmAriffic]

I got my girlfriend to play arma with me, jealous ;)

[ryguy]

An over abundance of female service members would be highly unrealistic. Anyone who knows anything about the military is that woman are physically not fit for combat roles, which is why they are not allowed in front line occupations in the military.

If anyone wants to pull any "sexism" card BS, they can follow this link:

http://kitup.military.com/2011/03/breaking-news-commission-recommends-women-in-combat.html

Kit Up is military news blog that is maintained by a retired Navy SEAL and a seasoned military news correspondent, and is frequented by veterans of all nations and branches. In the comments you will find little but utter proof that woman are not fit for combat, and therefore, if Arma 3 is to be more realistic than "dude let's have hawt chicks in the game!", there shouldn't be female soldiers.

There is so much more to focus on than being PC in this game.

You just made a point and then completely contradicted yourself with an article. Now you're asking me to trust the comment section of an internet page as a reliable source of proof?!
Making generalizations about the genders is, by definition, sexist. Although in general, usually men are more physically large than women, there are plenty of men sadly unfit for combat, and there are plenty of women combat able and strong. Even if you disagree, your article says explicitly that they are passing it soon. This takes place in the future so it makes more women will be serving.

[NodUnit]

Who said the women are skinny?

I once met a female M240 gunner, she was bigger (and stronger) than me. As a child in Siberia, she had to walk 10km everyday to get water from a well and bring it back. Needless to say, the M240 and the army marches were a joke for her.

My quote was in response to beagles post that women cannot handle firearms based on the assumptions of youtube videos by people who clearly have never handled them.

The amazing double standard is that women can be represented in games as victims or hookers or as heroines with minimum clothing in adventure type games but when a female soldier comes into suddenly it becomes a big deal of morality and so on.

Now from a business standpoint I can understand as it would be more questionable in press than manhunt somehow, this would definately be one of the things better left to the sanctions of the community IE less press BS.

[therussiandong]

There are girls that enjoy playing ArmA :(
One of my best friends is a girl who plays ArmA.

Of course I introduced it to her lol
She hated using the male models so she forced me to download the female US soldiers mod.
Females in A3 please!

[DerKonig]

You just made a point and then completely contradicted yourself with an article. Now you're asking me to trust the comment section of an internet page as a reliable source of proof?!
Making generalizations about the genders is, by definition, sexist. Although in general, usually men are more physically large than women, there are plenty of men sadly unfit for combat, and there are plenty of women combat able and strong. Even if you disagree, your article says explicitly that they are passing it soon. This takes place in the future so it makes more women will be serving.

Using something that may not be concrete proof is not a contradiction. The article also does not say there is any sort of serious legislation in motion to increase the number of females in combat roles. If this community paid any attention to military news, they would see that this sort of thing pops up every now and again and gets shot down once it gets placed on the desk of someone sensible. And yes, a comment section is for sure not a solid resource that one might use as for a bibliographic source in a College essay, but be honest. Read the posts. KU's community is one with a highly military background. They know what they're talking about (Most of them, I'll allow that there are, of course, the few internet tough guys and SEAL- wannabes).

EDIT: And yes, I'm aware that making a decision that is influenced solely or heavily on gender is sexism, but the word carries a connotation that causes many to interpret the word as meaning a "sexist" decision is inherently unfair.

[crazyirish93]

all u need is a female looking face no need to create character models or new animations problem solved now all the sexists can argue all they like but they should really grow up.

[r3volution]

I'm pretty amazed/impressed by the level of blatant sexism on display thus far in this thread, from the 'women are distracting on the battlefield' (which is a very interesting projection I think) to 'girls can't fire accurately because some dumb blond in a youtoob vid can't fire a 12 gauge'. OR the ever popular its not ok if women are shot in a game one, because you know theres a huge ethical leap between killing a bunch of pixels that looks male to a bunch of pixels that might look a bit female.

There have been female soldiers on the battlefield, and in many armies for the last 10 years or so, only recently Australia recommended that Women be allowed to serve in frontline roles. And one only needs to dig through the history books to find plenty of examples of women taking an active role in combat. I know for the patriarchal macho set this will be hard to deal with, but it doesn't make you less of a man because women can fight next to you. And if Arma3 is based around the kind of desperate scenario they describe, women should not be relegated to the role of animated furniture that they were in Arma2.

I don't even feel there should be a hugely different soldier model, and this isn't a concession to the 'cant fight if there's girls there' set, but an acknowlegement that however great the difference between the female and male body, under 50 pounds of combat gear its pretty hard to tell the difference apart from the face and/or hair.

So I don't view it as an impossibility to do, because a slightly altered/tweaked soldier model with diff hair/face texture selections can't be that hard to do for BI at this point in the picture.

So really, why not? The majority of the arguments I see against seem to revolve around some level of sexist opinion, tho there's a few technically based ones. I feel honestly the technical issues are nothing big (if they can be solved by Modders I feel BI should easily be able to implement at this point in development) and that given the scenario they're going with, and the way that military gender policy is headed, that not to not have women present in some combat roles (and I don't mean 50-50 representation, even 5-10% would be fine) is going to detract from the realism of what is supposed to be the biggest and best Mil-Sim yet...

[NodUnit]

In the end it all boils down to business and PR, as much as the world loves to think we have become so sophisticated we are still living back in the 1800's-

For some reason in games these are okay

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/103/1035800/bayonetta-20091016073514805.jpg

http://www.videogamegirlsdb.com/Images/Mortal_Kombat/Jade/Jade_MKD_wallpaper_01.jpg

http://cdn0.spong.com/pack/x/b/xblades290900l/_-X-Blades-PC-_.jpg

http://www.gta.cz/data/gta4/Clanky/striptyzove-bary/the-triangle-club/the-triangle-club3.jpg

http://www.multiplayergames.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Screen-shot-2010-07-05-at-11.11.25-PM.png

Buuuut when you see something like this in this day and age http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/article/565/565517/call-of-duty-finest-hour-20041111110722200-000.jpg suddenly all hell would break loose. I'm shocked that there wasn't a press outbreak against MGS4 for meryl looking like a more plausible female soldier http://spawnio.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/merylsilverburgh.jpg

The common belief is that women are not big into video games like many guys, looking at the above you have to wonder why :\

_________________________________________________________________________________

As far as realism goes we all know darn well that Arma games are not the most realistic in the world and while the rules are similar they are not exact as ours. From a gaming standpoint what is the harm exactly, are you afraid to see a female soldier fighting, why.
Taking a step back however looking at it as "Female soldier" specificly is too narrow minded, perhaps the topic should be more about female units in Arma being able to use weapons, then female soldiers would fall into place.

Have we become so entrenched in our belief that reality must be duplicated of our world that we will fight tooth and nail to push aside any pretense of what could be and possibility's in a world similar to our own but not held by the same rules?

[r3volution]

@<hidden> Nodunit : Agreed!

I don't see why its totally cool to have the stupidly hyperstylised/hypersexualised female imagery everywhere, and for that to be ok or not ok as the case may be (argument for another day perhaps?). But to then have that used as some kind of argument AGAINST having realistic portrayals of women just serves to belittle both genders. You'd think we'd have the ability to get over Freud's 'Maddonna/Whore' complex about women by now but apparently not...

[johanna]

I got my girlfriend to play arma with me, jealous ;)

Not sure, have to see a pic first...

[ArmAriffic]

Not sure, have to see a pic first...

Were both 15, soz no pics :)

[Joshua the Grizzly]

Its not whether or not there are girls playing Arma. There are quite a few women in wars. You can say all about 'no front line duty', but many women in the US armed forces see combat anyway, because in the geurilla wars of Afghanistan and Iraq, there simply is no frontline... Oh. And there are pilots. So yeah, some women around would be nice. And... let them carry weapons!

[DMarkwick]

I'm pretty amazed/impressed by the level of blatant sexism on display thus far in this thread

There are very real and pragmatic reasons for not having women in front line combat roles, now, you can easily apply the descriptive "sexist" because in it's literal sense it is, but it is not mysogynistic. It is pragmatics.

[KBourne]

@<hidden> and Co

You're actually wrong, the reality is that there is absolutely no intelligent or a logical and sensible reason for women not to be in combat, with the technology of warfare we have to date woman are deployed on the battle field and verious other roles, on a surtain dagree we also have woman leading squads while serving their country and even on top of that you CO might be a woman! Oh darn sikes, now you need to listen to her :rolleyes: They are however in the minority because the job is not that atractive in their own opnion and a female would prefer more of a other role on the combat scene then actualy be in the front line! Like logistics, intelegence even snipers but this is a mere personal opnion of the female soldier it selves! The ones that are bashing this id are just in my opinion rediculously tripping about their masculinity, and that in a game :eek: you're in danger go figure that one out!?

The russian Army putted Moman on the battle field even in WW2, and still they are deploying females to add a surtain valleu to the army and if i remeber correct it is the same with other amry's! Army researchers came up with a new study that concludes that, when a woman is correctly trained, she can be as tough as any man. I believe i readed a report that was don on the institute of environmental medicine at Natick You don't need testosterone to be though, go do some reasearch before you're bashing on this id. A femal gives a imersive vallue on the battle field!

And for the record Females are activly deployed on the battle field!

FIRST WOMAN
SNIPER SCHOOL
NATIONAL GUARD BUREAU
CAMP ROBINS, ARK
10 APRIL 01

go do some reasearch thats all i am saying, @<hidden> yes i love to see actualy females in ArmA3 deployed on the battle field if a soldier is trained it is trained, and when in real combat i doubt you will look at the soldiers boobs is it? :D

Kind regards

[r3volution]

I understand where you're coming from DMarkwick, and appreciate your cool-headed response.

I suppose regardless of the gender mechanics of whether or not its safe to actually have women on the field of battle, my point is that they are there. As others have said the shifting nature of guerilla warfare frequently places 'non-combatant' female soldiers into combat with the enemy and many nations have abolished restrictions on women serving in combat, as such I think its realistic to then have a small percentage of women present in the Arma3 military forces, or at least Bluefor/Independant side.

[Mr. Bravo]

Sweden has a lot of female soldiers too, in all sorts of roles, both here at home and in Afghanistan, Libya, Kongo, Kosovo, etc. Nothing wrong with that. So I'd very much appreciate official support and functions for adding female heads to soldiers by script or profiles.
But I can understand if it wouldnt be proper for some factions in the game. Still isnt reason enough to skip them completely though.

Mental strength, stamina and a clear cool mind exceeds rough physical strength any day. Know your weaknesses and compensate with your strengths ;) So women can definitely be just as badass and capable of fighting as any male.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u96/Da__Tobb/swe.jpg

[NoRailgunner]

What about some better pics?
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5449/013kk.jpg
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk10/djkaplin/Others/italian.jpg
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/6181/17113282.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5767/imagepopup.jpg

Sorry the picture of the swedish female cleaning her rifle is too hot for BIS devs... :D

[SgtH3nry3]

The funny thing is that here in The Netherlands we have a mention worthy amount of women in close combat roles in both the 11. Air Manoeuvre Brigade and the 43. Mechanized Brigade. They just aren't shipped in to combat AFAIK, but they are trained and capable. Only the Marine Corps and Submarine Service are not available for women, while the Commando Corps is.

I have seen German and Danish female soldiers in Wildflecken during combat training with the 1. German/Dutch Corps.

And I do know for a fact that France employs women in close combat roles. And then you obviously have Israel.

[KBourne]

The funny thing is that here in The Netherlands we have a mention worthy amount of women in close combat roles in both the 11. Air Manoeuvre Brigade and the 43. Mechanized Brigade. They just aren't shipped in to combat AFAIK, but they are trained and capable. Only the Marine Corps and Submarine Service are not available for women, while the Commando Corps is.

I have seen German and Danish female soldiers in Wildflecken during combat training with the 1. German/Dutch Corps.

And I do know for a fact that France employs women in close combat roles. And then you obviously have Israel.

Same here in belgium mate ;-) i don't see any reason not to have them, surtain country's will train them but not deploy them others will actualy deploy them.

kind regards

[PeterBitt]

you know the german KSK?
there are some women that do the tests to become a KSK soldier scince 2001, but never one single female made it into KSK because of lack of physical and mental strenght.

[SgtH3nry3]

Same here in belgium mate ;-) i don't see any reason not to have them, surtain country's will train them but not deploy them others will actualy deploy them.

kind regardsBelgium, The Netherlands. There isn't really much difference IMO. :cool:
I mean if it weren't for the political crisis in Belgium in 2007 and the disintegration of the Dutch cabinet in 2006, the Air Component and the Royal Netherlands Airforce would likely have fused in 2012-2013.

Same for the Marine component and the Royal Netherland Navy.


We might actually still have our Leopards and Belgium could have kept or updated their Leopards 1s to Leopard 2s.
you know the german KSK?
there are some women that do the tests to become a KSK soldier scince 2001, but never one single female made it into KSK because of lack of physical and mental strenght.The same applies to the KCT (Commando Corps) in the Royal Dutch Army. It's more or less the same as the KSK. They usually train together.

[Max Power]

you know the german KSK?
there are some women that do the tests to become a KSK soldier scince 2001, but never one single female made it into KSK because of lack of physical and mental strenght.

I don't doubt that, if there is a physical strength test that must be passed, less women than men will pass because they are smaller in size on average. However, this 'mental strength' bullshit is likely a euphemism for being hazed out of the application process.

[Mr. Charles]

you know the german KSK?
there are some women that do the tests to become a KSK soldier scince 2001, but never one single female made it into KSK because of lack of physical and mental strenght.

Yea, every man passes the tests, so the women are just wimpy :j:

[KBourne]

you know the german KSK?
there are some women that do the tests to become a KSK soldier scince 2001, but never one single female made it into KSK because of lack of physical and mental strenght.

well i know the russians have special forces snipers that are females, i don't think it is because they are female i think it is just all a state of hart and mind and how baddly you wan't to sucseed! Its nothing different for a male nor a female. I also think it is harder for a woman because the mere opinion of the mayoraty of the male soldier is hah a woman they can't do it! To be honnest to put that on the gender is plain and simple not right, maybe the training program needs to be fine tuned on the KSK i don't know but as said already if the female is trained propperly they can be as though as any male it is just a fact.

kind regards.

[DMarkwick]

go do some reasearch

I'm not denying the reality of it. I'm questioning the pragmatics of it. You can say what you like about the subject, but having females in front line combat has its issues, like it or not. I suggest that for a more efficient fighting force, we simply don't need to complicate such a visceral role with any more issues than necessary :)

As someone pointed out rather cleverly in this discussion, the first girl who gets a bullet in the face will be recieved differently from a man. But that is only one issue, IMO there are more.

[PeterBitt]

Yea, every man passes the tests, so the women are just wimpy :j:
cmon i didnt say that ... for sure MANY men fail in these tests, KSK are the thoughest of the tough. but it is a good example that women ARENT capable of some things that tough men can do.

@<hidden> Power: mental strenght and mental balance are one of the major skills you need as a KSK member. i watched a very nice doku on "phoenix" with many interviews and stuff, and they said the main reasons for people failing in the tests are mental ones.

[KBourne]

having females in front line combat has its issues, like it or not. I suggest that for a more efficient fighting force, we simply don't need to complicate such a visceral role with any more issues than necessary :)

Having males on the battle field has it issues also, it is how you approuch those issues that can solves them! Name some examples of the issue you can have with a female soldier on the battle field? Lets see how we put our vallues out on those ;) you would be suprised how they can easely be solved!

kind regards

[Panthro]

It is a fact that the human race as individuals devotes a huge amount of time & energy on sex & all it's precursor interactions, this is hard wired in the brain.
That goes for BOTH genders, not just men, as such it is only the warm and fuzzy logic of modern Political correctness that doesn't acknowledge these traits
as fundamental and undeniable, the last thing the forces need is extra complexity & unpredictable alliances in the field.

Oh and BTW in my clan we have a couple of female FPS players and one is a captain & has been since the early Desert Combat days.

WWW.G3TSOME.COM <---- blatant plug ;P

that said I hope they do make female soldiers

[KBourne]

well the soil perpose of the op is pointing towards the fact that surtain army's do have female soldiers in active duty on the battle field and they should put in female characters in game. Whether a female soldier on the battle field in real life has hes issues or not has nothing to with the mere fact that we have active female soldiers on the field that are not represented in this game, while the game is pointing towards realism it would be nice to have them in game so we can make missions and such with them, and even have just the female soldier represented so they also can be played online when female players desire it. i mean they are out there so why not having them? If people dislike the fact they can still choose not to play with that content but i don't see any reason not to have them because some people just think they have issieus with it on real world combat situations.

[Dibuk]

I'm pretty amazed/impressed by the level of blatant sexism on display thus far in this thread, from the 'women are distracting on the battlefield' (which is a very interesting projection I think) to 'girls can't fire accurately because some dumb blond in a youtoob vid can't fire a 12 gauge'. OR the ever popular its not ok if women are shot in a game one, because you know theres a huge ethical leap between killing a bunch of pixels that looks male to a bunch of pixels that might look a bit female.

There have been female soldiers on the battlefield, and in many armies for the last 10 years or so, only recently Australia recommended that Women be allowed to serve in frontline roles. And one only needs to dig through the history books to find plenty of examples of women taking an active role in combat. I know for the patriarchal macho set this will be hard to deal with, but it doesn't make you less of a man because women can fight next to you. And if Arma3 is based around the kind of desperate scenario they describe, women should not be relegated to the role of animated furniture that they were in Arma2.

I don't even feel there should be a hugely different soldier model, and this isn't a concession to the 'cant fight if there's girls there' set, but an acknowlegement that however great the difference between the female and male body, under 50 pounds of combat gear its pretty hard to tell the difference apart from the face and/or hair.

So I don't view it as an impossibility to do, because a slightly altered/tweaked soldier model with diff hair/face texture selections can't be that hard to do for BI at this point in the picture.

So really, why not? The majority of the arguments I see against seem to revolve around some level of sexist opinion, tho there's a few technically based ones. I feel honestly the technical issues are nothing big (if they can be solved by Modders I feel BI should easily be able to implement at this point in development) and that given the scenario they're going with, and the way that military gender policy is headed, that not to not have women present in some combat roles (and I don't mean 50-50 representation, even 5-10% would be fine) is going to detract from the realism of what is supposed to be the biggest and best Mil-Sim yet...

Very well said, this is pretty much what I tyed to say too.

Many refers to the military in the US today, but this game is in the future.

as Sky999 said about Israel:

They require everyone to serve...

Well that would be the same in the bitter senario in Arma 3.

[DMarkwick]

well the soil perpose of the op is pointing towards the fact that surtain army's do have female soldiers in active duty on the battle field and they should put in female characters in game. Whether a female soldier on the battle field in real life has hes issues or not has nothing to with the mere fact that we have active female soldiers on the field that are not represented in this game, while the game is pointing towards realism it would be nice to have them in game so we can make missions and such with them, and even have just the female soldier represented so they also can be played online when female players desire it. i mean they are out there so why not having them? If people dislike the fact they can still choose not to play with that content but i don't see any reason not to have them because some people just think they have issieus with it on real world combat situations.

Actually my only issue with female soldiers in ArmA3 I made in my first post on this thread, that is, that I simply have no use for it. My main point being, if female soldiers are to be introduced, then also include other body types like fat, thin, tall short etc. Otherwise, soldiers in ArmA are representational only and have no real use for a *slightly* different model base for one detail only.

So, in summary, I am in favour of different body types in ArmA3 in general.

[ZacharyHawk]

If we BIS didnt make Female Soldiers.Who cares lol.We can make it ourself lol and btw I think its impossible to find a women play this game lol

[NodUnit]

That is because generally they do not care, to many gender holds no significance of the player who plays the game, we all play, what does our gender matter other than having a different voice. (and likely that they will be pesterd if they come out as has been seen in EVERY gaming community)

[Sky999]

The thing about the campaign for ARMA3, is that from what we know the blufor consists of basically a special forces squad and a submarine crew (Which likely get's destroyed early).

From that basis alone we know that women will not play active combat units in the campaign, because despite not even playing active combat roles in normal units, they certainly don't play a part in special forces units.

[MadDogX]

From that basis alone we know that women will not play active combat units in the campaign, because despite not even playing active combat roles in normal units, they certainly don't play a part in special forces units.
Cpt. Miller is alone on Lemnos after losing the rest of the team, but somehow goes from lone wolf to military commander in the course of the campaign. Something tells me he doesn't do that by magically spawning US Marines and assorted special forces out of thin air.

I think it's more likely that he either recruits the local population into a militia, or joins an existing resistance movement which - and this is key - would consist mostly of civilians...

[r3volution]

... because despite not even playing active combat roles in normal units...

Err were you sleeping through the rest of this thread? There are actually women in combat roles in many armies around the world. And yes, as pointed out above I forsee civilians playing a significant part in this which would indicate women should indeed be playing a role as combatants even if the quoted argument was NOT highly inaccurate.

[Sky999]

Err were you sleeping through the rest of this thread? There are actually women in combat roles in many armies around the world. And yes, as pointed out above I forsee civilians playing a significant part in this which would indicate women should indeed be playing a role as combatants even if the quoted argument was NOT highly inaccurate.

Can you point out an army that has female frontline combat soldiers that, unlike Israel, is engaging another army equiped with their same level of equipment, man power, tanks and aircraft?

[NodUnit]

Cpt. Miller is alone on Lemnos after losing the rest of the team, but somehow goes from lone wolf to military commander in the course of the campaign. Something tells me he doesn't do that by magically spawning US Marines and assorted special forces out of thin air.

I think it's more likely that he either recruits the local population into a militia, or joins an existing resistance movement which - and this is key - would consist mostly of civilians...

Whew, anyone else get shivers and memories of this when reading that? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypqh8vkVhL0&feature=related

[ubermachtig]

Well just to summarize a few things about active woman combat roles:


Woman are more accurate then men, especially with sniper-rifles but also with regular weapons. Prerequisite is that they had enough training and enough muscles to carry the weapon. Nevertheless, if those are alright; a woman is likely to outperform a man regarding accuracy. It is generally known that woman have steadier hands then men. This is also the reason why many who perform surgery in hospitals, are woman.
A few months ago I spoke with a woman flying refueling aircrafts for USAF. I was really interested in the role of females in the army and asked her how that actually worked. She responded with:

"Generally, it is less of an issue then you might think. Woman are excellent in non-direct combat environments. This includes transport aircrafts, refueling aircrafts, medical assignments and logistical tasks. The problem, however, is that men have a biological tendency to protect the woman. In a direct combat environment, this can make them put themselves into unnecessary risks. For example, when a woman gets shot and is lethally injured, men may still want to save her, although there rationally know that isn't possible."

This was quite in line with my expectations and was surprised that she talked so openly about that.


All in all, woman will see much less active-combat situations then men. However, having them in military roles may lead, in special circumstances, that they WILL be involved into combat situations. I think, adding a woman character in-game is a welcome addition, but not neccesary due to the fact that woman generally see much less combat then their male counterparts.

[Tom1]

Add the possibility so others can use them in game, in 10-20 years time they will be seving in active combat roles in many modern armies, why not in arma. They should also be able to pick up and use guns so modders can allow them to shoot back in terrorist scenarios.

[Beagle]

Add the possibility so others can use them in game, in 10-20 years time they will be seving in active combat roles in many modern armies, why not in arma. They should also be able to pick up and use guns so modders can allow them to shoot back in terrorist scenarios.I predict the opposite and it is happening right now already...the more actual combat mission are to espect the less women think about a career in the army. THis is happenign right now here in germany. At first it was a great thing that woen could serve 2001...but now we have 2011 and are in a state od neverendign war...and the number of women in service is dropping significantly..also because unemployment is low in germany...there are other carrers....another point...women already tend to have better qualifications as men in europe...why waste a life in the army when you can get a 30.000€ a year job near instantly with a bachelor in economics. As i already stated...the only women that i personaly know that is in service is a full physician in medical corps and she joined in the rank of Oberleutnant (1st Lt.] and is Haupmann (Captain] now just two years later. She spend the whole 4 month in A-stan in a hospital in Masar Sharif.

In genral you wil find women more often in the Navy, in the Airforce, in maintenance doing jobs with high grade qualification...but rarely in the dirt in some hole in A-stan or somewehre else.

[DMarkwick]

Well just to summarize a few things about active woman combat roles:


Woman are more accurate then men, especially with sniper-rifles but also with regular weapons. Prerequisite is that they had enough training and enough muscles to carry the weapon. Nevertheless, if those are alright; a woman is likely to outperform a man regarding accuracy. It is generally known that woman have steadier hands then men. This is also the reason why many who perform surgery in hospitals, are woman.
A few months ago I spoke with a woman flying refueling aircrafts for USAF. I was really interested in the role of females in the army and asked her how that actually worked. She responded with:

"Generally, it is less of an issue then you might think. Woman are excellent in non-direct combat environments. This includes transport aircrafts, refueling aircrafts, medical assignments and logistical tasks. The problem, however, is that men have a biological tendency to protect the woman. In a direct combat environment, this can make them put themselves into unnecessary risks. For example, when a woman gets shot and is lethally injured, men may still want to save her, although there rationally know that isn't possible."

This was quite in line with my expectations and was surprised that she talked so openly about that.


I'm glad you had that direct experience, that is exactly one of the issues I was trying to vocalise a while back, but I didn't wish to couch it in such emotive terms, I'm happy that a serving woman identified that as a factor first-hand. Until now it was rather a subjective idea that I had.

[r3volution]

Can you point out an army that has female frontline combat soldiers that, unlike Israel, is engaging another army equiped with their same level of equipment, man power, tanks and aircraft?

Nowhere is anyone else engaging an army equipped with their same level of equipment, man power, tanks and aircraft? Or did I miss something and WWIII started overnight?

But there are many armies both engaged in combat operations and not, that have females soldiers in frontline roles. Australia has just announced it is putting forward plans to bring women into frontline roles (http://www.news.com.au/national/victims-demand-defence-forces-abuse-inquiry/story-e6frfkvr-1226037527951), Denmark allows women soldiers in frontline roles, Germany and Ireland both have no restriction on women serving in combat either. The Ukraine has a massive proportion of women in its armed forces though apparently this relates more to the low pay, either way it stands at near 13%. Also last but not least, Canada has no restrictions on frontline combat roles for women. Now at least half of these countries have either been involved in combat in the last 5-10 years or are still involved now.

Enough facts for ya? :)

[Rye]

Australia has just announced it is putting forward plans to bring women into frontline roles

http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2009/09/10/1225771/284802-jacqui-de-gelder.jpg

[r3volution]

^ Bingo ^

:)

*Edit* Can I also point out to the 'Don't want no 35kg anime model set' that this woman just looks like an ordinary soldier under all the gear.

[Sky999]

http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2009/09/10/1225771/284802-jacqui-de-gelder.jpg

That's a woman? Looks like a guy to me.


The thing with Australia allowing women on the front lines in combat roles, is that they aren't facing an opposing army consisting of Jets, tanks, submarines, entire navies, and hundreds and thousands of well trained men. If they were, then women would most likely start to demonstrate why they are detrimental to a unit on the battlefield.

[r3volution]

Wow THAT is your argument?

A 2 part rebuttal consisting of:

a) The lady looks like a guy

and

b) Guerilla wars don't count in terms of proving women's ability on the battlefield.

I just wanted to make sure of that. Before I begin, I'm only going to argue to your second point as your first seems pretty much beneath any comment.

Firstly, I don't understand why you seem to believe women's supposedly detrimental qualities on the battlefield only arise as a result of exposure to enemy tanks/helicopters etc. This seems like the kind of argument which is just hiding behind the fact that there are no conventional conflicts currently raging to prove that women can fight just as well as men in a frontline role, which they are currently doing in Afghanistan.

Secondly I'd LOVE to see you put this to any servicemen/women who've come back from a tour in Afghanistan, as I'm sure they'd most likely be pretty insulted to have it suggested that somehow its not quite enough war to actually test people's will and mental endurance and that only a conventional State vs State conflict is a real war.

Thirdly, given that women are serving just fine and qualifying just fine for frontline combat in so many nations it seems that most of the people still arguing against the presence of women in frontline roles are doing so the basis that their presence negatively affects male combat ability and judgement under fire. IF a mans combat abilities are negatively affected by the fact that a woman is part of the unit, or is somehow less able to exercise good judgement on the battlefield, that is absolutely nothing to do with the woman. That just indicates that the man in question probably shouldn't be a soldier in an equal opportunity armed forces.

[DMarkwick]

Women on the battlefield. (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14960494)

[Cogar69]

:icon_rolleyes::icon_rolleyes::icon_rolleyes: It's just a game for Christs sake! What are you afraid of?...that the females can beat you or something?

Does the term "Respawn" mean anything to you? This game is not reality!

[Beagle]

:icon_rolleyes::icon_rolleyes::icon_rolleyes: It's just a game for Christs sake! What are you afraid of?...that the females can beat you or something?

Does the term "Respawn" mean anything to you? This game is not reality!Do you know the term "dead is dead" in Sim Gaming...it's when your LOMAC or Falcon pilot died...he's dead and you have to make a new pilot profile...the old one wil still be there with all achivements and medals and a fat KIA under it.

Some of us play ArmA that way.

[PuFu]

while i also like the immersion of a non-respawn game, dieing because of disconnect is not all that fun in armaverse

[Beagle]

while i also like the immersion of a non-respawn game, dieing because of disconnect is not all that fun in armaversethere is more than just Multiplayer, and the more i play MP the more I see that SP is in fact more immersive. MP tend to be more and more pure arcade.

[DieterWeber]

No, thats ok. I do NOT want to hear a female robot voice telling me about an enemy 500 meters at 2 o' clock. Plus I think its ridiculous to have females in service. And as I've said before, women are an extreme danger to their male counterparts on the field.

[PuFu]

there is more than just Multiplayer, and the more i play MP the more I see that SP is in fact more immersive. MP tend to be more and more pure arcade.
that is something i can agree with, especilly if you talk about the public MP.
Even so, if you haven't played a proper non-respawn TvT game in A2 yet, i suggest you do. :)

[NodUnit]

End story really is that BIS won't do it regardless be it due to bad press or something else, this is more or less an unwinnable battle and it has nothing to do with the community's beliefs.

Chances are that an addon will come to aid this instead during which case the excuse of reasonings of our world will have no say as to why they should or should not be made.

[Joshua the Grizzly]

No, thats ok. I do NOT want to hear a female robot voice telling me about an enemy 500 meters at 2 o' clock. Plus I think its ridiculous to have females in service. And as I've said before, women are an extreme danger to their male counterparts on the field.

Which is why any major army, especially the IDF, deploys them in the field.

[Jakerod]

I actually know a girl who plays ArmA 2 or at least used to. I was quite shocked when I found that out since most people I talk to have never even heard of it. She even used to be in a squad and everything. I know that she would appreciate female soldiers so I'm going to go right ahead and support the idea of having them in-game. I think that they should be in any role really since this is World War III that we are talking about and I would imagine that even if they weren't meant to be frontline infantry the rate of the enemy advance could easily make that so.

[ffur2007slx2_5]

I'm just afraid that this smart idea may goes up into smoke since BIS won't give any role for female but still a part of wild life.

Maybe we can get a heroine if BIS wanna to give us an half simulation and half recreational game, but I think we should be serious to war, military simulation won't pays so much attention on how to develop the episode between hero and heroine. lol.

[Sky999]

Wow THAT is your argument?

I'm not having an argument, I'm having a discussion...


Firstly, I don't understand why you seem to believe women's supposedly detrimental qualities on the battlefield only arise as a result of exposure to enemy tanks/helicopters etc.

I'm not sure where you get the 'only' part from? There are many reasons why women on the battlefield are a detriment, in fact a female friend of mine (who dreams of joining the Royal Marines) was telling me how she understands why she isn't allowed to fight on the frontlines as a marine because the presence of a woman, like someone else pointed out in this thread, is liable to affect the way the male soldiers would react in the event of her being wounded. Like another user said, men have a biological impulse to drop what they're doing and help women who are in danger.


Secondly I'd LOVE to see you put this to any servicemen/women who've come back from a tour in Afghanistan, as I'm sure they'd most likely be pretty insulted to have it suggested that somehow its not quite enough war to actually test people's will and mental endurance and that only a conventional State vs State conflict is a real war.

So you're saying that soldiers fighting the Taliban would fair just as well fighting say, the Chinese and Russian armies in open combat? Seriously...?


IF a mans combat abilities are negatively affected by the fact that a woman is part of the unit, or is somehow less able to exercise good judgement on the battlefield, that is absolutely nothing to do with the woman.

Why couldn't it be? Why is it so hard to believe?


Thirdly, given that women are serving just fine and qualifying just fine for frontline combat in so many nations

So many nations? Name some nations, apart from Israel, that are actively stationing female soldiers on the frontlines in combat roles?

[TheCapulet]

Which is why any major army, especially the IDF, deploys them in the field.

Wait, which major armies? And in what capacity does the IDF deploy them on the front line?

[NodUnit]

Perhaps instead of soldiers of a modern army which hopefully we will see little of, simply give women the ability to use weapons in Arma3, we could have female militia soldiers.

[Beagle]

Perhaps instead of soldiers of a modern army which hopefully we will see little of, simply give women the ability to use weapons in Arma3, we could have female militia soldiers.Sounds O.K. and is a compromise and was possible in OFP, but only in custom missions.

[Angle]

They better have female soldiers..... Ill be happy if the pixels representing female can sit in cars.

[NodUnit]

Sounds O.K. and is a compromise and was possible in OFP, but only in custom missions.

Why, what's wrong with it having part in the campaign where village people form a militia, surely you don't expect the island to be populated by only men ala Sahrani.

[Rye]

If they aren't actual soldiers,

Let them be allowed to use the same anims as males e.g. hold weapons (BIS don't have to have female soldiers but players missions can then do). Agree?

[Beagle]

If they aren't actual soldiers,

Let them be allowed to use the same anims as males e.g. hold weapons (BIS don't have to have female soldiers but players missions can then do). Agree?Thats the way it works in OFP and it looks ... arkward! Animations have to fit the model and skeleton.

[Baron von Beer]

If China is involved, maybe they can show up on the battlefield: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X3Vyhm56Eo&feature=related

[aart112]

dont rly care either way. i do know that 90% of all women in any army arent on the frontline. i dont see the need why that suddenly would change. becouse "newsflash" female soldiers arent the pretty barbies doll girls you want them to be. dont get fooled by most of the pictures online. a hot girl in gear isnt a soldier.

[Liquidpinky]

dont rly care either way. i do know that 90% of all women in any army arent on the frontline. i dont see the need why that suddenly would change. becouse "newsflash" female soldiers arent the pretty barbies doll girls you want them to be. dont get fooled by most of the pictures online. a hot girl in gear isnt a soldier.

I know, former Miss England Katrina Hodge is such a minger. :P

I think there should at least be female combatants in the guerrilla's or partisan faction if nothing else.
Also women fare better as pilots as they feel the effects of Gs far less that their male counterparts.
And what is to say that your side using female troops won't have adverse effects on your enemies male troops as well, may make them hesitate just that little too long before opening fire.

[Jakerod]

a hot girl in gear isnt a soldier.
So what you're saying is that there are no pretty girls in the military? That's BS.

[antoineflemming]

If China is involved, maybe they can show up on the battlefield: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X3Vyhm56Eo&feature=related
They all look exactly the same... creepy.

[TheCapulet]

And what is to say that your side using female troops won't have adverse effects on your enemies male troops as well, may make them hesitate just that little too long before opening fire.

Do you identify your targets by gender at 300+ meters?

[antoineflemming]

Do you identify your targets by gender at 300+ meters?
Definitely not. The bottom line is that, since it doesn't really add to the game, why put them in there? Sure, add female civilians who can hold guns just like male soldiers. But there's no real point for female soldiers. But, as I said earlier, adding female MPs solves everyone's problems. They can shoot, fight, everything like male soldiers, and yet they're not infantry so realism is maintained.

[Jakerod]

Definitely not. The bottom line is that, since it doesn't really add to the game, why put them in there? Sure, add female civilians who can hold guns just like male soldiers. But there's no real point for female soldiers. But, as I said earlier, adding female MPs solves everyone's problems. They can shoot, fight, everything like male soldiers, and yet they're not infantry so realism is maintained.
Or you could just add female soldier models in and people can choose to use them or not. Whichever. It does add things to the game. I would think women would like to play as women and not men.

[wika_woo]

you can get some pretty decent units for arma II here

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=12248

so why not integrate some for arma III?.. ArmA II has some civilian unit females, but not seen many missions about them as i'm aware.. I think we need some female players.. Why not?..

[NeMeSiS]

Thats the way it works in OFP and it looks ... arkward! Animations have to fit the model and skeleton.

Still better than nothing.

[TheCapulet]

Still better than nothing.

How do you figure? An awkward unusable implementation of something that really doesn't add much in the first place definitely isn't better than not including it and focusing the time in other areas of the game.

[Mr. Charles]

How do you figure? An awkward unusable implementation of something that really doesn't add much in the first place definitely isn't better than not including it and focusing the time in other areas of the game.

Right, after all only one man works at BIS. He is doing all the modelling work, programming, mission design, records himself shooting guns and flying helicopters, aswell as recording the soundtrack and all the voices, which of course is all him in different variations :j:

[NeMeSiS]

How do you figure? An awkward unusable implementation of something that really doesn't add much in the first place definitely isn't better than not including it and focusing the time in other areas of the game.

Seeing as femal (resistance) soldiers would only need a different head it wouldnt kill anyone adding this. Female civilian models would require some extra animations though, but still.

[antoineflemming]

Seeing as femal (resistance) soldiers would only need a different head it wouldnt kill anyone adding this. Female civilian models would require some extra animations though, but still.
Females have different body types. They don't have male bodies with female heads. If BIS is going to do females, then they need to be done right.

[CarlGustaffa]

Female soldiers is really not of very high value to me. Getting males up to speed with BMI and height values (VBS2) is more significant to add some variety to the battlefield. however, if it can be done without developing overhead, then sure, go for it.

But I would like to be able to control at least on the server (if not in mission) how many can be females, or use fixed female slots on a per mission basis. I think I would be happy with regular animations and body, with just female faces and voices.

I really don't want to experience logging in and finding every unit to be a female, just because it can be done. Females require restraints, just like in real life :D (couldn't resist :D)

[Laqueesha]

I'd very much like for them to be included, but if they aren't, it wouldn't be that much of a game-breaker for me. There are already radio voices in-game for them in O.A. so I don't see how hard it would be to get them into the game. If they are included, it probably should be randomized similar to how faces are in the current incarnation of RV. If they aren't included, at least allow the civilian ones to be able to use weapons and ride in vehicles. On another note, there should be some children on the civilian side; after all, they are the future. Why bother fighting wars if not for the children's future and thus, the future of the country?

[Richey79]

Yes to fighting women (although not necessarily in the armies of the East/West forces).

No to children, for all the reasons that are stated every time someone starts a thread about it. They'd need a whole different set of animations, mo'-caps, AI behaviours etc. What's the point when no decently-designed mission is going to encourage you to shoot them? They'd be amusing to have in a zombie mod, true... .

[Primarch]

No, please just work on getting the male voices better. No need to work on the female voices too because nobody sensible will be playing a female character.

[.Taffy]

No, please just work on getting the male voices better. No need to work on the female voices too because nobody sensible will be playing a female character.

But it isn't about who you will play as, it's about the other characters and soldiers around you on the battlefield.

[Primarch]

But it isn't about who you will play as, it's about the other characters and soldiers around you on the battlefield.

Women don't go to war, and I am not playing a game where I would be talking with the civilians. I play arma to destroy things, I don't know what you guys are doing if you aren't.

[Laqueesha]

women don't go to war, and i am not playing a game where i would be talking with the civilians. I play arma to destroy things, i don't know what you guys are doing if you aren't.

FPDR

Oh dear.

[Primarch]

FPDR

Oh dear.

You wish arma to be a date simulator? I ain't playing that thing. There's sims if you wish to play a date simulator.

[Laqueesha]

You play flashpoint dragon rising? I ain't playing that thing. There's sims if you wish to play a date simulator.

http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/306-troll-harder.jpg

[DMarkwick]

You wish arma to be a date simulator? I ain't playing that thing. There's sims if you wish to play a date simulator.

Hah :D I'm not really a big fan of women soldiers in games, but this is quite clearly a ridiculous argument :D

[Primarch]

Hah :D I'm not really a big fan of women soldiers in games, but this is quite clearly a ridiculous argument :D

Why is it, explain to me? I don't really get what you guys are getting out of this...

---------- Post added at 09:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:02 AM ----------


Well "duh"

Image reply?
gb2b

[Laqueesha]

Image reply?

Quoting images in full isn't allowed around these parts. Since you've been a member here for around a year, you should know that by now. Change the quoted image to a URL link before a mod sees it. :rolleyes:


Why is it, explain to me?

Your argument (or claim, rather) that adding female characters to a game automatically makes it a 'dating simulator' is complete and utter rubbish. :rolleyes:

[Primarch]

Quoting full images isn't allowed here. Since you've been a member for around a year, you should know that. Change it to a URL link before a mod sees it. :rolleyes:



Your argument that adding female characters to a game automatically makes it a 'dating simulator' is complete and utter rubbish. :rolleyes:
It was an exaggeration.
It adds simply NOTHING to the game, takes away BIS time and resources. It is useless. You can not get immersed to the game with this clunkyness, so why add more stuff before enchancing the rest?

[DMarkwick]

It was an exaggeration.

Then you really shouldn't be surprised at any reaction then :)


It adds simply NOTHING to the game, takes away BIS time and resources. It is useless. You can not get immersed to the game with this clunkyness, so why add more stuff before enchancing the rest?

I agree that it adds little to the game, that's my main opposition to it. However, in a pragmatic sense, female soldiers are only really different body types, and I would like to see different body types in the game. Short, tall, fat, thin, male, female.

So, in general, I am in favour of differing body types, but am ambivalent on female soldiers specifically.

[Brute Force]

Women don't go to war, and I am not playing a game where I would be talking with the civilians. I play arma to destroy things, I don't know what you guys are doing if you aren't.

http://420.thrashbarg.net/i_like_where_this_thread_is_going_ship_heading_into_epic_storm.jpg

[Rye]

Female soldiers counts for guerrilla also - it doesn't mean conventional - and this is future warfare not current. At least tweak their anims so they can hold weapons... it opens up a few doors. We don't have to see women groups of soldiers running around everywhere, or players choosing a gender... just tweaks to make it easier for mission makers.

[Primarch]

look, I am from v

Sometimes I just hope the steam sales never happened. All these guys are posting with image replies. And please, read the thread before you reply to any older comments next time.

[Laqueesha]

Sometimes I just hope the steam sales never happened. All these guys are posting with image replies. And please, read the thread before you reply to any older comments next time.

What is it with you and false quotes?


Female soldiers counts for guerrilla also - it doesn't mean conventional - and this is future warfare not current. At least tweak their anims so they can hold weapons... it opens up a few doors. We don't have to see women groups of soldiers running around everywhere, or players choosing a gender... just tweaks to make it easier for mission makers.

This. ^ As I suggested earlier, it should be randomized like user faces at the moment to avoid instances like with the odd platoon where everybody is female. But, if that's your cup of tea, you can use a command similar to setFace to get clone armies.

[Primarch]

Female soldiers counts for guerrilla also - it doesn't mean conventional - and this is future warfare not current. At least tweak their anims so they can hold weapons... it opens up a few doors. We don't have to see women groups of soldiers running around everywhere, or players choosing a gender... just tweaks to make it easier for mission makers.

They will need to add voices and whatnot too. A lot of useless work will be made so a few people can feel a bit more "immersed". I suggest that BIS will focus on more important stuff... Like adding more animations for MALES first? I am against this idea to add more animation types before the rest are on good state.

[Rye]

It depends what you want, people in this thread want different things;

I want animations for women to hold weaponary and whatever else tweaked off that. We can then tweak our missions to fit what we want, especially when it comes to guerrilla warfare missions and MSO's.

Other people want full women soldiers, guerrilla women soldiers, etc.

The animations are getting worked on, once they finish them for males maybe they can you. You are right, males come first in Arma - it's the main gender of choice and what we use.

[Laqueesha]

It depends what you want, people in this thread want different things;

I want animations for women to hold weaponary and whatever else tweaked off that. We can then tweak our missions to fit what we want, especially when it comes to guerrilla warfare missions and MSO's.

Other people want full women soldiers, guerrilla women soldiers, etc.

The animations are getting worked on, once they finish them for males maybe they can you. You are right, males come first in Arma - it's the main gender of choice and what we use.

I agree, same here, but the claim that just enabling female characters to utilise weaponry and vehicles will take a significant amount of developer time is complete and utter rubbish. If one man (Schnapsdrosel's female soldiers addon, for example) can do it, then a full-fledged software development company with contracts all over the world should have no problem doing it. As for the claim that it will not add anything to the game, well there's a lot of things in the game that don't add anything to it and yet people still want those things implemented in the game. ;)

[Primarch]

I agree, same here, but the claim that just enabling female characters to utilise weaponry and vehicles will take a significant amount of developer time is complete and utter rubbish. If one man (Schnapsdrosel's female soldiers addon, for example) can do it, then a full-fledged software development company with contracts all over the world should have no problem doing it. As for the claim that it will not add anything to the game, well there's a lot of things in the game that don't add anything to it and yet people still want those things implemented in the game. ;)

While they haven't even finished the males, how much hope do you have for females which receive less time? They will be just bugged and BIS will receive shit for it.

[Laqueesha]

They will be just bugged and BIS will receive shit for it.

I find your lack of faith disturbing. (http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/8131/popedeathstarye3.jpg)

[Rye]

While they haven't even finished the males, how much hope do you have for females which receive less time? They will be just bugged and BIS will receive shit for it.

If they are then I hope BIS do not put them in game. I doubt they'll get worked on but the idea is there. Modders can always mod it, you are right, but BIS' internal goals, priorities and time are their business, I hope they work on something more fulfilling from a game perspective but from a gameplay and mission maker perspective, this would add more choice.

[Liquidpinky]

They may at some point have to add female soldiers anyway. From a VBS perspective there is bound to be a point when someone uses the old discrimination chestnut, probably in Britain.

[DMarkwick]

They may at some point have to add female soldiers anyway. From a VBS perspective there is bound to be a point when someone uses the old discrimination chestnut, probably in Britain.

Women can't use computers anyway.

[Laqueesha]

If they are then I hope BIS do not put them in game. I doubt they'll get worked on but the idea is there. Modders can always mod it, you are right, but BIS' internal goals, priorities and time are their business, I hope they work on something more fulfilling from a game perspective but from a gameplay and mission maker perspective, this would add more choice.

My sentiments exactly, mate. ;)

[Debo]

theres already civilan females in arma 2 you mad yet? lol

[TheCapulet]

Women can't use computers anyway.
Lol, this thread really needs more jokes like this. I'm not kidding either. :P

[Jakerod]

It was an exaggeration.
It adds simply NOTHING to the game, takes away BIS time and resources. It is useless. You can not get immersed to the game with this clunkyness, so why add more stuff before enchancing the rest?
It does add something to the game. It allows us to play as a female soldier if we so choose. Some people would choose to do so for one reason or another.

So there you have it. It ADDS the ability to PLAY as a FEMALE SOLDIER into the game.

[CommanderYuri]

Why ? Girls are not to be placed on the front. Leave the job to us ! I am not against female soldiers serving or in general against females lol, but the thing is, I would search any chance to prevent a women be placed at the frontlines. It is just so.

[IceBreakr]

We live in a world where "men" marry little girls old like 5-13 years... I've read a shocking article in National Geographic (http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/06/child-brides/gorney-text) today... that made me extremely mad and also sad that I can do so little to bring little justice to these godforsaken ppl in poor regions of Yemen, India, Afghanistan etc. You even have two "proud" f*ckers on the headline article shot there...
and BIS statement is no-armed women/kids in game? Talking about unrealistic view of this crazy world we live in... these "child brides" are present even in Saudi Arabia, Bangladesh,... not to mention even more cultured countires, even in proud USofA you can find crazy redneck/militant/peace-loving-religious-preaching-fanatic "Jesus insert-your-crazy-idea" groups that practice that.

I would recommend Czechs to go a bit further than Croatia on the next summer vacation, in countries like Africa, maybe do a roadtrip from Marocco to Kenya ;) I bet they will look differently on "simulations" when they'll have a chance to buy an AK47 for 10 dollars... from a smiling kid :)

http://communities.canada.com/theprovince/resized-image.ashx/__size/550x0/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/cancer/2480.israeli-army-girls.jpg

my 2 cents... for a Chinese-made AK47.

[Dysta]

my 2 cents... for a Chinese-made AK47.

Type-56, good sir. :)

[OnlyRazor]

Type-56, good sir. :)


-z2ucmARq-k

This here's a Chinese model. I get 'em for 850. :yay:

[Innomadic]

I don't know where we went from female units in A3 to pedophiles, but how about they let them fix player movement first and then add the skins in after?

As i said before, few will take their inclusion seriously and it will just become the new Allah Akbar.

[zooloo75]

Atleast let female characters be able to use weapons. They are mostly useless in ArmA 2 right now.

[OnlyRazor]

Atleast let female characters be able to use weapons. They are mostly useless in ArmA 2 right now.

There probably aren't that many women in the game during this stage in development. Most likely only civilian women, and they won't see much use anyhow. At least in my experience.

[zooloo75]

Atleast add kitchens in some houses so females could be at some use then.

[NoRailgunner]

Well there are some good looking females in "The Witcher"... :supercool:
Guess that BIS devs just don't want to censor their own games only for our prudent friends over there in US. The only solution for BIS is to make all the other things sexy and well-oiled.

[[GR]Operative]

Atleast add kitchens in some houses so females could be at some use then.

Those jokes are really funny :rolleyes:

About female in frontlines, everybody know they get there by misfortune, not by military doctrine.

If BIS is to include females just because players can play as a woman if they wish so, why not add everything and make the game a kind of The Sims?
They don't add mechs or spaceships, toysoldiers or zombies for the same true reason: it's not what the game is about or stands for.
Some things would be cool additions for some people (and I respect that), but they just don't go well with the game (or at least the devs vision).

[TheCapulet]

Operative;1940402']Those jokes are really funny :rolleyes:

Lol, I laughed.

[NodUnit]

http://static.tumblr.com/noiu98j/gUplb4j88/trollface.jpg letters

[Beagle]

Operative;1940402']Those jokes are really funny :rolleyes:

About female in frontlines, everybody know they get there by misfortune, not by military doctrine.

If BIS is to include females just because players can play as a woman if they wish so, why not add everything and make the game a kind of The Sims?
They don't add mechs or spaceships, toysoldiers or zombies for the same true reason: it's not what the game is about or stands for.
Some things would be cool additions for some people (and I respect that), but they just don't go well with the game (or at least the devs vision).We are still not sure about Mechs and Spaceships in ArmA III... maybe in 2024 this is common equipment.

[$CHLUCKi]

To bring women in a wargame is a hot iron...out of German sight. If it get part of the game to kill women it could be possible that ArmA 3 gets a USK of 18 and not of 16 like ArmA 2. That means that it isn't allowed to make advertisements or gaming magazines aren't allowed to report about the game in common magazines. Just in magazines for adult....haha...adult gaming magazine. :rotfl: I don't think that BIS will risk the potential of German market just for women who aren't really much in duty...think that the roles you are playing in ArmA is the one of Special Forces or other fighting units.

But in the community are some women who playing ArmA...but I would say it's nearly the same ratio as in military duty (I take medical service out)

[Sargoth]

I'd like to see only females [Edit: or shemales] in arma 3. you know. I'm tired of looking at men all the time when I play! Need some pretty stuff with pink "hello kitty" weaponry.

http://www.kittyhell.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/hello-kitty-assault-rifle.jpg
;)

[STALKERGB]

To bring women in a wargame is a hot iron...out of German sight. If it get part of the game to kill women it could be possible that ArmA 3 gets a USK of 18 and not of 16 like ArmA 2. That means that it isn't allowed to make advertisements or gaming magazines aren't allowed to report about the game in common magazines. Just in magazines for adult....haha...adult gaming magazine. :rotfl: I don't think that BIS will risk the potential of German market just for women who aren't really much in duty...think that the roles you are playing in ArmA is the one of Special Forces or other fighting units.

But in the community are some women who playing ArmA...but I would say it's nearly the same ratio as in military duty (I take medical service out)

Isn't operation Arrowhead an 18? I'm pretty sure it has been rated 18 by PEGI.

[Beagle]

Isn't operation Arrowhead an 18? I'm pretty sure it has been rated 18 by PEGI.PEGI is just one rating agency...USK is the german one and some european countries (austria, Switzerland) just adopt the USK rating.

USK rating is 16 as with all military games...but having GORE, or CHILDREN in it would make it 18 automatically. As long as violence is not fully depicted (gore, dismemberment, show of sexual abuse etc. ) it always goes with USK 16. That's why the german PvP scene is more in the teens and thats why MP on german severs sucks so often...to much 16 year olds.

[Max Power]

I guess it's possible to kill women in ArmA 2 currently, but it's not a goal.

[STALKERGB]

@<hidden> ok,

Interesting to see that Bad Company 2 and Halo 3 were given 18 ratings by USK. A 16 rating needs "no visible blood" so doesn't that already rule Arma out? Or does the option to turn it off satisfy the rule?


I guess it's possible to kill women in ArmA 2 currently, but it's not a goal.

I suppose this is the point really,

If it was an 18 couldn't you use the tried and tested method of just getting it of amazon or somewhere online?

[Beagle]

@<hidden> ok,

Interesting to see that Bad Company 2 and Halo 3 were given 18 ratings by USK. A 16 rating needs "no visible blood" so doesn't that already rule Arma out? Or does the option to turn it off satisfy the rule?



I suppose this is the point really,

If it was an 18 couldn't you use the tried and tested method of just getting it of amazon or somewhere online?Pure and rather "clean" military games always get a lower rating...don't ask me why. I don't know

But tech like ragdoll and dismemberment makes a 18 rating a very sure thing.

Also, the blood in ArmA is still low compared to other games. where you have blood everywhere in the walls after shooting someone etc. Simple blood textures for dead units are no problem...depends all on the "gore" factor. Another fact is that ArmA depicts war as somnethign creuel you don't want to be in and it does not glorify wars...that's something to consider in the reating too.

[bugkill]

I think it is best to have female models for all military factions. It will only add to the realism and for mission makers to have women attached to combat units or MP units. Female models are a must.

[Laqueesha]

I think it is best to have female models for all military factions. It will only add to the realism and for mission makers to have women attached to combat units or MP units. Female models are a must.

Agreed. Besides, the game takes place in the 2020s/2030s, and the barriers regarding women will probably be lifted by then. BIS already has female soldiers in their VBS series, so I don't see any reason not to include them.

[richiespeed13]

Include realistic female roles, that sounds good.

But please, I don't want to be taking orders from combat vertaran war hero Rambo Colonel Jessica.

Femalse soldiers should be doctors, artillery, dog handlers, etc. Roles they can actually do in real life. Not front line infantry.

[Laqueesha]

Include realistic female roles, that sounds good. But please, I don't want to be taking orders from combat vertaran war hero Rambo Colonel Jessica. Femalse soldiers should be doctors, artillery, dog handlers, etc. Roles they can actually do in real life. Not front line infantry.

I'd agree with you if this game took place in the present day, not the future. Besides, I think it's best to leave it up to mission makers and the players in the community to decide the roles. How do you suppose going about setting the roles then? The whole point of ARMA is that it is supposed to be modular. ;)

[bugkill]

The simple thing would be to just create a female model for each branch of service, but not assign them within the combat squads like infantry and special forces. They would just be character models that you could put anywhere you want in the editor.

[Laqueesha]

The simple thing would be to just create a female model for each branch of service, but not assign them within the combat squads like infantry and special forces. They would just be character models that you could put anywhere you want in the editor.

That's a good idea, mate. If a bloke wants them to drive lorries and fill out paperwork, they can do that. If they want them to command an infantry platoon into battle, they can do that also. ;)

[bugkill]

That's a good idea, mate. If a bloke wants them to drive lorries and fill out paperwork, they can do that. If they want them to command an infantry platoon into battle, they can do that also. ;)

Yep, that's the idea. Everyone is happy and can do what they want. ;)

[Icewindo]

Won't happen.

The devs still live in the stone ages, it speaks for itself that the female civilians can't even equip a single gun, while the male ones can.

There also was some post about this were they explained they "didn't like the idea of putting women behind weapons" and all that blargh.

[Primarch]

Won't happen.

The devs still live in the stone ages, it speaks for itself that the female civilians can't even equip a single gun, while the male ones can.

There also was some post about this were they explained they "didn't like the idea of putting women behind weapons" and all that blargh.

The idea is that they do not want to use resources to something as useless as that. IF you look behind your obscure view of reality, you'll see that women are not biologically identical with males. 99% of females can not do what the army wants them to do, and most of those who can do what the army wants them to do, do not serve in the army. So there would be one out of a thousand soldiers a female. Now to increase the fact that almost every woman who serve in the army, are not in the frontline this means you'll get like 1 out of 10000 soldiers is a female you see in the field... See how useless it would be to model females in a game that should be almost realistic?

Edit: And yes I threw those numbers out of my head, but I thought about them for awhile.

[ryguy]

99% of females can not do what the army wants them to do
There would be one out of a thousand soldiers a female.
1 out of 10000 soldiers is a female you see in the field... See how useless it would be to model females in a game that should be almost realistic?


Great job with those stats... :j:
Women make up 20% of the military.

[Primarch]

Great job with those stats... :j:
Women make up 20% of the military.

Yep, murriikkaa is the only country with an army. Amirite?

[ryguy]

No, but you forgetting that the US is going to be one of the main militaries as usual? Stop trying to avoid the point. You should be embarrassed at your ridiculously skewed view. I hate when this topic comes around and the ugly side of BIS forum members rears its head

[STALKERGB]

Yep, murriikkaa is the only country with an army. Amirite?

His point still stands that women make up a much bigger proportion of the army than you suggest. I believe the UK sits at around 10% and it's about 12% for Australia. I think Russia also sits at about 10%.

If you look at most Nordic countries (Sweden, Norway etc) although they have generally lower proportions of women in their military 5-10% (ish) often there is no discrimination with regards to what roles females can serve in.

[Primarch]

No, but you forgetting that the US is going to be one of the main militaries as usual? Stop trying to avoid the point. You should be embarrassed at your ridiculously skewed view. I hate when this topic comes around and the ugly side of BIS forum members rears its head

I am not avoiding the point. The point is exactly as I said it is, there's barely no woman in active frontline duty, why should BIS concentrate their resources in such non-critical shit? Get real, you won't see US Army using women in a battle as infantry as an active force.

---------- Post added at 12:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 AM ----------


His point still stands that women make up a much bigger proportion of the army than you suggest. I believe the UK sits at around 10% and it's about 12% for Australia. I think Russia also sits at about 10%.

If you look at most Nordic countries (Sweden, Norway etc) although they have generally lower proportions of women in their military 5-10% (ish) often there is no discrimination with regards to what roles females can serve in.

Yet almost none of them actually serve in the field, because losing a woman in an armed fight is much more media failure than losing a man.

[[GR]Operative]

The death of a female soldier is much more, psychologically speaking, hard to surpass than of a male soldier, fact.
The enemies would simply aim to the women, so that the male soldiers would do whatever they could to save them, risking everyone's life in the process. Sad but true.

[ryguy]

Yet almost none of them actually serve in the field, because losing a woman in an armed fight is much more media failure than losing a man.
30,000 of them are in Iraq and Afghanistan, and 41 of them have died in combat... You clearly are just pulling everything you say out of your ass. At minimum you should be at least somewhat informed while talking. Besides, nowadays "being in the field" just means being in the country. There's no such thing as front lines in these wars, because you can be attacked any where at any time.

[[GR]Operative]

ryguy is right. Logistic troops are the most common victims of ambushes (because they move in long convoys, easy targeting).
Females may be not in infantry battalions, but they can still serve, like in medic corps, combat engineer, artillery and support.

[Wikipedia] Dave Grossman, in his book On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society, argues that male soldiers are really affected after seeing female soldiers wounded, developing a kind of protective stance. Also, islamic soldiers rarely, if ever, surrender to female soldiers. The civilians are also less inclined to be intimidated by female soldiers.
To have women in the military (specially for ground work) is the possibility of searches on female civilians, and currently entering the female areas in the mosques of the current occupied countries.
There are some programs including women in the operations, mainly in checkpoints but also in patrols and even special operations support units, but, quoting Melody Kemp, the soldiers "are reluctant to take women on reconnaissance or special operations, as they fear that in the case of combat or discovery, their priority will be to save the women and not to complete the mission. Thus while men might be able to be programmed to kill, it is not as easy to program men to neglect women."
*Not that I really trust Wikipedia, but this is a valid point.


This one is a direct quote from Wikipedia:

From the beginning of the 1970s, most Western armies began to admit women to serve active duty. Only some of them permit women to fill active combat roles, including New Zealand, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Norway, Israel, Serbia, Sweden and Switzerland. Other nations allow female soldiers to serve in certain Combat Arms positions, such as the United Kingdom and the United States, which allows women to serve in Artillery roles, while still excluding them from units with a dedicated Infantry role. The United States allows women in most combat flying positions. Turkey uses female officers in combat flying (bombardment) missions over Northern Iraq and in ISAF patrol missions in Kabul, Afghanistan.

Sgt Leigh Ann Hester, among other decorated soldiers in the Raven 42 unit, received the Silver Star, the third highest US combat decoration. While nurses under fire had received this award previously, Hester was the first woman to receive it for direct participation in combat.

Also, there are these two articles:
Womem in warfare (2000-present) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_warfare_(2000%E2%80%93present)) and Women in the military by country (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_military_by_country)

[Laqueesha]

30,000 of them are in Iraq and Afghanistan, and 41 of them have died in combat... You clearly are just pulling everything you say out of your ass. At minimum you should be at least somewhat informed while talking. Besides, nowadays "being in the field" just means being in the country. There's no such thing as front lines in these wars, because you can be attacked any where at any time.

Pwnt.


I threw those numbers out of my head, but I thought about them for awhile.

You seem to pull a lot of things out of your head.

"A while" = Two and a half seconds.


Yep, murriikkaa is the only country with an army. Amirite?

For those of you who don't understand idiot speak, here is a rough transliteration.

"Murriikkaa" = United States of America
"Amirite" = Am I right?

[Wolfrug]

Stop with the medieval woman bashing, the juvenile kitchen jokes and the rest of the bullshit you're trying to pull, guys. ._. Seriously, this is 2011 (and the game is going to be set even further in the future), not 1811. Although I think big-breasted action chicks in games is sometimes as demeaning as not including women at all, I still prefer that to the sausage fest you're proposing.

What more, as the good Cameron said, there are no men or women in Arma, just bits and bytes: making the "women" bytes capable of bearing arms, shooting and having all the other animations necessary is purely a good thing: after that it's up to the mission maker to decide if they want to include them or not.

The only reason I can see that BIS wouldn't include women is the same for why they wouldn't include full interiors: lack of time.

Regards,
Wolfrug

[Beagle]

"Women bashing" is not a invention of medival age, in fact the supression and belittleling of women is a invention of the 19. Century. It sound strange but women supression hadn its high peak after the upper bourgeoisie took over ruling power fromn the aristocracy and imposed their babbitry over the whole Society.

[DMarkwick]

Anyone mentioned Hitler yet?

[Primarch]

Pwnt.



You seem to pull a lot of things out of your head.

"A while" = Two and a half seconds.



For those of you who don't understand idiot speak, here is a rough transliteration.

"Murriikkaa" = United States of America
"Amirite" = Am I right?

Why do you never contribute in any thread you come around?

---------- Post added at 09:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 AM ----------


30,000 of them are in Iraq and Afghanistan, and 41 of them have died in combat... You clearly are just pulling everything you say out of your ass. At minimum you should be at least somewhat informed while talking. Besides, nowadays "being in the field" just means being in the country. There's no such thing as front lines in these wars, because you can be attacked any where at any time.

Yeah, right.
Now tell me how do you think this will show in ArmA 3 as there will be no logistic simulation since that is useless in a 20km map.

[Laqueesha]

Why do you never contribute in any thread you come around?

I could ask you the same thing. What's your excuse?


Now tell me how do you think this will show in ArmA 3 as there will be no logistic [sic] simulation since that is useless in a 20km map.

No logistic [sic] simulation? Ever heard of ammunition, repair and petrol lorries? Not to mention the bloody WARFARE system? Do you even play ARMA at all, or do you spend all of your time trolling the BI forums? :rolleyes:

[Primarch]

I could ask you the same thing. What's your excuse?



No logistic [sic] simulation? Ever heard of ammunition, repair and petrol lorries? Not to mention the bloody WARFARE system? Do you even play ARMA at all, or do you spend all of your time trolling the BI forums? :rolleyes:

WOW! All you need in Warfare is an ammo truck and a repair truck... Do you call that a simulation?

[Laqueesha]

WOW! All you need in Warfare is an ammo truck and a repair truck... Do you call that a simulation?

It still defeats your completely asinine claim that there are no logistics to be found anywhere in ARMA.

[Primarch]

It still defeats your completely asinine claim that there are no logistics to be found anywhere in ARMA.

ArmA 2 is not a jet simulation, yet if there are planes it is a jet simulation?

[Laqueesha]

ArmA 2 is not a jet simulation, yet if there are planes it is a jet simulation?

What does it say on the cover of ARMA 2?: (ULTIMATE MILITARY SIMULATOR)

[DMarkwick]

Now tell me how do you think this will show in ArmA 3 as there will be no logistic simulation since that is useless in a 20km map.

No-one but BIS knows what will be in A3, and no-one knows at all what will be possible in A3.

[MadDogX]

Arma2 does not need to be a "logistics simulator" in order to simulate logistics.

[Laqueesha]

ArmA 2 does not need to be a "logistics simulator" in order to simulate logistics.

My point exactly, mate. ;)

Definition: Simulation is the imitation of some real thing, state of affairs, or process.

[ryguy]

Yeah, right.
Now tell me how do you think this will show in ArmA 3 as there will be no logistic simulation since that is useless in a 20km map.
Well considering we already have dozens of logistic vehicles and people in the game, it would make sense that arma 3 would. Besides, this far in the future it's pretty obvious those restrictions will be gone.
This argument is so stupid. Just because people don't like women in the army they think it shouldn't be there at all, even if it is realistic... But then again, only .1% of every military is composed of women :rolleyes:.

[PuFu]

What does it say on the cover of ARMA 2?: (ULTIMATE MILITARY SIMULATOR)

don't believe everything written on the box, that's a general rule...

[USSRsniper]

Don't know if I want female soldiers, but females should be able to pick up a gun, just like in OFP.

[Defunkt]

I don't see much value in spending time adding women soldiers to the core game either but I do think having animations missing in one or other gender is a bit below the normally high integrity of ArmA's simulation of the world. Such shortcuts are the stuff of other games.

[InFecT1on]

This are just guys using female names. I have not met any real girl, women, wife or girlfriend that likes such games or likes partners playing games so far and I never will fore sure. The only SIM I know of girls play sometiemes is THE SIMS

My girlfriend LOVES the sims.. have all the xpansions and whatnot..

ALSO love BF2 and shes very good, even have faster reflects than me :o

but is true, females doesnt like to go as "vocal" as guys in games.. trust me, she just play and enjoy the game, nothing else

ON TOPIC:

wth is with the "no females in arma" thing?!?! You know there is females soldiers in combat IN REAL LIFE?!?! Even childrens?!?! (thats another topic, more sensible of course, but whatever, just making a point)


Properly implemented would be a nice addition..

you want realism or not?!?!

[NkEnNy]

If modern trends continue by 2020 women will be serving in many more branches of othe armed forces. Particularly true for smaller nations-- even more so true as militaries become smaller and in many cases have fewer willing/potential recruits. As special operatives (not necessarily of the light infantry kind) women have served with distinction.

Female insurgents may be uncommon in the male dominated middle east, but in any other setting would be expected.

What concerns me much more is whether or not the "small team of researches" of the main story will turn out to be some random love interest of the worst harebrained Hollywood kind.

[Laqueesha]

If modern trends continue by 2020 women will be serving in many more branches of othe armed forces. Particularly true for smaller nations-- even more so true as militaries become smaller and in many cases have fewer willing/potential recruits. As special operatives (not necessarily of the light infantry kind) women have served with distinction.

My point exactly, mate. The game takes place in the bloody future. ;)

[Beagle]

My point exactly, mate. The game takes place in the bloody future. ;)Ifmocern trend continue you wil see LESS women in service, that's because of the long term deployments that become the norm. That's exactly why women drop out here. ANother reason is simple and also a fact...military service time coincedes with the phase in which women want to found a family (24-35)...try that with deployments all over the world. Men can do that later in their late 40's women often can not. Thsta swhy women seek position that do not involve deployments to foreing territories. I did not think about that in my 20's but no in my late 30's i notice the incredible "spawn" rate that occurs with women aged 25-30.

Seems to be a call from nature.

Same happens with Officers in other branches like Customs or Police that I personally know...get pregnant...get a deskjob, stay behind desk till pension.
I think we saw the peak in enlisted women already...the more constant war and fatalities the less will enlist except the tradition roles in medical corps.

[OnlyRazor]

you want realism or not?!?!

Why does everybody appeal to realism? I mean, it's one thing to be able to pick up a gun without having a gun (the latter gun being a euphemism), it's another to be able to select a woman soldier (or a child soldier or a war animal). And then they'd probably have to make a new group so it would be US Army - Women and then everybody'd be like


BIS! Y U NO INTEGRATE GENDER GROUPS?!?!?!

[The Hebrew Hammer]

Because if this involves American troops, females will not be included. They are only allowed to serve in support roles.

This is opening a huge can of worms, women in the infantry will not work. Sorry.

[Horner]

This are just guys using female names. I have not met any real girl, women, wife or girlfriend that likes such games or likes partners playing games so far and I never will fore sure. The only SIM I know of girls play sometiemes is THE SIMS
Our clan has a girl pilot......

[NodUnit]

Could someone give a definition of soldier.

For the record Beagle, the fact that you don't know any women that play games of all sorts does not mean they don't exist.

So obviously we'll never have playable female soldiers because the industry has not yet matured, so how about the simple ability to have them pick up the weapon, don't need any animation changes or complex stuff like that, just the ability to simply do it, apply the same skeleton male characters use because if the only purpose women will serve in these games is as civilians that cannot defend themselves in any way then might as well be gone with them and return to the Sahrani roots.

[nuttex]

For all these people who ask why we need female soldiers - recall OFP. In the game, all female units (though being civilians) could as much as male ones. In A2, we had weird old women and prostitutes who could do nothing but have animations of being scared and running. Oh, and they couldn't do a thing you'd expect from a milsim.

Also, some people here have mentioned that A3 will only be about US soldiers. Well, since the game will take place in Europe (Greece, to be precise), I wouldn't really be surprised if we'd see the females in the losing armies and the local resistance cells (think of French Resistance during WW2, for example).


This are just guys using female names. I have not met any real girl, women, wife or girlfriend that likes such games or likes partners playing games so far and I never will fore sure.

My GF enjoys all kinds of games. Stuff like Mass Effect, Dead Space, Battlefield or ArmA 2 :) So yeah, you have yet to meet anyone who's really into it.

[Primarch]

This thread is balls. My conclusion is that there are 2 kinds of people in these forums: Feminists and Realists.

[NkEnNy]

As history neatly proves. In a true modern World War-scenario against an equivalent (or worse more powerful) enemy a nation cannot afford to let old fashioned segregation of the sexes get in the way. As more than one poster has argued-- this will be even more true in 2020.


During the Second World War the title of distinguished sniper was awarded to 261 Red Army snipers with over 50 confirmed kills.[citation needed] 428,335 individuals received Red Army sniper training, including Soviet and non-Soviet partisans, with 9,534 receiving sniping 'higher qualification'. The two six-month training courses in 1942 for women alone trained nearly 55,000 snipers.[23][verification needed] On average there was at least one sniper in an infantry platoon and one in every reconnaissance platoon, including in tank and even artillery units.[verification needed] Some also used the PTRD anti-tank rifle with an adapted scope as an early example of an anti-materiel rifle.

-k

[Steakslim]

Back in the day I recall running into a girl or two in ol' Counter Strike that could wreck a lot of people's shit, and some not so much. Can't say much about other games since then because apparently a lot of fps's today consist of a bunch of mutes. Short of the ArmA community, I only encounter a large amount of 'vocal' gamers in Valve related game these days as far as MP goes. Granted I haven't played every game out there, just saying though.

[crazyjake56]

I don't even wanna know what kind of mods this will cause. ... Whew! Perverted!

[Big Dawg KS]

In the spirit of ArmA, female characters should at least have combat animations so that they could potentially fight. If it's unrealistic that they're serving on the front lines then so be it (it's all up to mission design anyway), but there are certainly situations where women could be involved in combat, and to deny that for the sake of authenticity is against the spirit of ArmA IMO (especially since ArmA 3 takes place in a ficticious, future setting). To be honest, it makes as much sense as complaining about the NATO forces using F2000s and Comanches; it's all alternate reality, so different policies regarding female soldiers are perfectly plausible.

Now I realize it also means a lot of extra work for BIS (making a whole set of anims for females), so if they decide it's not worth the effort I'd be ok with it. Despite this, I'd still like to see the ability for female characters to fight in future ArmA games, and I don't understand why people are so opposed to it.