Environment (Seattle)

[nightsta1ker]

Considering that BIS's maps for ArmA have been fictional, and at least one of the maps for TOH is going to be fictional, I began to wonder what to expect from the Seattle area map. I live in Olympia and fly out of KBFI (Boeing Field) in Seattle as well as KS50 (Auburn Muni) just south of Seattle and know the area well. I presume the downtown skyline will be accurate, but what about the surronding environs and airports? I am curious, will KBFI, KSEA, KS50, KRNT all be there in full glory? Is there any comment yet on where the fictional base will be located for the game? Will it be at one of these hubs, or will it be stand alone somewhere else? I guess what I am asking is, what amount of liberty is being taken on the Seattle portion of the game? As a local, I will be sensitive to innacuracies of the area. Any comment from the Devs?

[BoboCZ]

I make dirty grafic work from todays picture and old one and compare it with real google earth location. There is no heliport what I see, if I found right location at all :). I guess there could be some base in the game, I see some heliport on last picture.

http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/1562/heliport.jpg

[nightsta1ker]

Hamilton Viewpoint Park.

[darkiron]

yeah : your present an other behind the scene scree !
see on the facebook page :yay:

[Hans Ludwig]

Unfortunately Seattle is 90 percent of the time cloudy and rainy.

[nightsta1ker]

yeah : your present an other behind the scene scree !
see on the facebook page :yay:

What ARE you talking about Willis?

[Pvt.mcdonald]

So I live in Rainier Beach, and I gotta say in one picture(I forget which) I saw the ballparks and the streets and everything and it looked pretty sick. But I am wondering if BIS is going to include Parks. Like there is Judkins Park in the CD, and Bobby Morris, and Madrona, and the I-90 bridge area as well. Cuz theres hella details that would be sick around I-90.

[The Hebrew Hammer]

Unfortunately Seattle is 90 percent of the time cloudy and rainy.

Uh cloudy maybe..

The summer is pretty nice, typically high 70's to low 90's every day, that lasts late into the fall then it's 40-50 and cloudy again.

Haters gonna hate bro, this looks interesting, maybe I can land in my backyard or something..

[Adammo]

I'm a helicopter pilot in the Seattle area and fly it every day.. ok I just had to say that.. but its true :)
I'm excited for this simulator!!! i cant wait for the zombie mod :)
Could play some cops and robbers might be fun as well.. Funny thing is.. I really am part of a company here that is trying to survive thru this recession and get contracts.. if you want you can use my name instead.. make it more realistic :)

Adammo
Capt Moore

http://www.cherrydrying.com/pic/seatac.jpg

picture taken the other day by me flying thru the VFR corridor over SEATTLE airport

[ArmAriffic]

i cant wait for the zombie mod :)

The zombie DLC was an april fools joke bruh, sorry :D

[SamB]

Adammo worte "mod", not "DLC";)
Sam

[Adammo]

Yes I know.. How ever based on the engine being useds chances are someone (a modder) will create a mod that will include them. i wasnt really refering to a BI studio mod :)

[nightsta1ker]

Great to see you on here Adam!

[AnimalMother92]

As a Western Washington native, I'm definitely looking forward to this terrain :)

Pretty cool that BIS picked Seattle imo

[nightsta1ker]

Agreed, I just hope they don't butcher it. Based on shots so far, I'm not sure. They got the skyline right, I'm just worried about details like airports etc. I will be one VERY happy camper if I get to fly out of KBFI.

[4 IN 1]

I am not so sure about that, given that BI some time cannot get things reasonablily correct...

[nightsta1ker]

I don't expect every building to be totally accurately placed or anything like that. But if the map is as big as they say it is, there are some major airports that are right there. If those are not present, well... taking that much liberty with the scenery would kind of make it pointless to try and replicate it.

[Juzzy82]

Just be glad you are getting something loosely based on your home city :)

Having said that, you would think they would get the air-ports right if there are 4 large ones. Maybe not same layout, but same location and size, etc.

I'm tipping they might have to change a few things, and add some other stuff in for the sake of gaming value - eg. more hospitals to land at, etc.

[nightsta1ker]

Just be glad you are getting something loosely based on your home city :)

Having said that, you would think they would get the air-ports right if there are 4 large ones. Maybe not same layout, but same location and size, etc.

I'm tipping they might have to change a few things, and add some other stuff in for the sake of gaming value - eg. more hospitals to land at, etc.

They wouldn't have to take many liberties. There are plenty of things to do in the Seattle area. You have Boeing field just south of downtown. Then SEATAC about 5 miles south west of that. Harbor View Hospital heliport overhangs I5 which runs through the downtown area. There are a ton of helicopters at Renton at the south end of lake union, a stones throw from downtown on the other side of the eastern ridgeline. I constantly see helicopters zipping around all over the place. Everything from flight training to law enforcement/EMS to news gathering and more. It's a busy place for helicopters.

[Macadam Cow]

I don't expect every building to be totally accurately placed or anything like that. But if the map is as big as they say it is, there are some major airports that are right there. If those are not present, well... taking that much liberty with the scenery would kind of make it pointless to try and replicate it.
I beg to differ
Just look at Liberty City in GTA IV (or any other city in the GTA serie). Clearly inspired by a real city that you can recognise almost instantly but they are not 100% accurate. Some changes were made to fit the game/gameplay requirements.

[nightsta1ker]

I beg to differ
Just look at Liberty City in GTA IV (or any other city in the GTA serie). Clearly inspired by a real city that you can recognise almost instantly but they are not 100% accurate. Some changes were made to fit the game/gameplay requirements.

Hence why they called it Liberty City.

Look, we're all entitled to an opinion, and I am not saying yours is wrong. It IS a game after all. My opinion, as a real helicopter pilot that flies in the Seattle area, is that they wouldn't need to change it much in order to make fun and immersive. Now, considering most helicopters operate from airports (ease of maintenance, proper facilities etc.) I don't feel like they would need to create a fictional heliport as the players home base (they could put a fictional hanger at an airport or something, that would be more realistic) but if they do because that is what works for gameplay, thats fine. Why ADD fictional hospitals when there are real ones in the area that serve the purpose? I'm just saying, all the pieces are already there. They don't need to create new ones to make the game work.

[Blake Hicks]

Seems as if on any major flight sim, Not a preference of mine.

[ocramweb]

If facilities are at the right places the right way ,we could then use real aeronautical charts for nav and approach, thats what will be nice at least for runways and hospital.

http://skyvector.com/?ll=47.50840233431815,-122.99823825111257&chart=1&zoom=4

[[DirTyDeeDs]-Ziggy-]

heres a screenshot just released of this new environment.

http://www.bistudio.com/images/stories/blogs/Preorder1.jpg

[Quart]

Fantastic work BIS!

[NeMeSiS]

That looks way more impressive than i expected. Though now i wonder how they are going to handle the traffic. :p

[Macadam Cow]

Woh, that pic looks amazing :)
Great job guys !



That looks way more impressive than i expected. Though now i wonder how they are going to handle the traffic. :p

Yup exactly my thought. Such an urban environnement needs dense traffic or it's really gonna look empty, a lot more than Tchernarus or Takistan. And knowing how bad the AI is driving, even when they're alone on a road in the middle of the desert I'm curious to see how it will perform with all these trees, buildings, red lights,...around it.

[Quart]

That looks way more impressive than i expected. Though now i wonder how they are going to handle the traffic. :p
Take On The Sky! Flying cars is the way forward :yay:

[[DirTyDeeDs]-Ziggy-]

:coop: :D
http://www.bistudio.com/images/stories/blogs/Preorder.jpg

[Seth0351]

Seems like there are a lot of pilots from the Seattle area, who all here flies around the area? (I do as well)

[Gabe_Ruckus]

The ORBX pacific northwest flight sim X terrain's been a great primer, can't wait to get in TOH and see how close the two are.

I wonder if there's going to be any fixed wing aircraft in TOH? Would be strange to fly around in helicopters in a major city and never see a Cessna or Beech King, at the least. And knowing the RV Engine, they'd probably be flyable too if they were there. Also, semi truck racing around Mt. Ranier.

Release soon? lol :yay:

[Nicholas]

Here is part of the FAQ they released. This section is only about the environment:



Environment and Weather Modelling Questions


How detailed will the environment be?


In urban terms, we've got 3D models of a variety of structures: industrial, residential, commercial - all at varying heights and different levels of detail from different heights.
In the natural environment, we've got detailed trees and ground clutter, and a brand new weather simulation. Currently, you can only see one of the tree variants in our videos, but we're hard at work creating more, and working on ways to efficiently integrate them in-game, while still running a smooth frame rate.
Overall, while - by nature - it will be less detailed than Arma 2, we feel they come together to give a really great feeling of immersion - even when you step out of the helicopter.
Of course, these are all very nice words, but for those looking for some harder data, our terrain resolution is 15m between vertices in Seattle, with a 1m/px satellite texture resolution. That compares well to Chernarus, which also offered 1m/px; although, featured 7.5m/vert. When we take into account the brand new support of normal mapping, we think that the visual impact is probably even better than Chernarus from a helicopter-eye-view.



How large will the environment be?


Seattle is ~3800 km. sq.
South Asia ~15000 km. sq.
There's also a much smaller map included, which is useful for quickly testing out some ideas in the editor.



Will there be civilian ground traffic? (Editor Module based?)


Ambient traffic is planned and is currently WIP.
Aside from ambient traffic (which is not as fully simulated), we also allow the placement of ground, water and air vehicles to add to the experience where needed.



Will there be civilian air traffic? (Editor Module based?)


Ambient air traffic will feature in game.
An editor module to control this is planned to be in the game.



Will there be simulation of air traffic routes and associated navigational aids (VOR/NDB, ILS beacons, strobes on high rise buildings, running lights on ships and cars, etc.)


We've actually just added a variety of lights to the game, including those which you have mentioned, and more.
Currently, it's beyond our scope to fully simulate air traffic routes and ATC; although, some scenarios will feature aspects of this.
We're also adding a suite of new scripting commands which should allow dedicated community members to extend the scope of ATC (e.g. custom radio channels).



Will there be city hazards, such as telephone and electrical wires running between buildings, power lines, street lights, trees, etc.?


Trees will certainly be a hazard, and have proven rather annoying to several developers still learning to fly...
Also, as power lines are a serious risk to helicopter pilots, we plan to feature these as best we can.
The visual damage state of the helicopter will be impacted by collisions, including rotor blades snaps and even losing your entire tail.



Will there be an advanced weather simulation? (Up and Downdrafts, Shear winds, Building aerodynamics, cloud formation and precipitation, dynamic weather in general?)'


Clouds are now volumetric and will come in many more variants than we've seen in BI titles before.
These aren't just eye candy, though; flying in clouds will cause turbulence.
Wind is also overhauled, and also has a direct impact on the flight model, which you'll notice, for example, when landing into the wind.



Will AI be affected by the weather at all?


Currently, our focus remains upon the player's flight experience.
AI choppers can, however, be scripted into certain behaviours where it's appropriate to interfere.



The full FAQ can be read here (http://www.bistudio.com/index.php/english/company/developers-blog/225-take-on-community-faqs).

[Helmut Duregger]

This is in response to
http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1993073&postcount=8
in the other threat, but I think it is more appropriate to continue the discussion in this thread here

CarlGustaffa

How is the map resolution too coarse for nap flying? Iirc it's still half resolution of OA. And why would you do nap flying in a civilian chopper sim? I live close to an airport, and I've never seen any nap flying going on. It's not risk free, and risk and civil aviation don't blend.

I didn't mean the map's mesh resolution, what I don't like are flight sim maps using satellite images as textures. Too many sims used flat buildings on ground texture in the past. This is a pain in the eyes to me when flying low. Sometimes they try to improve it by putting 3D buildings on top of those maps, but often they are repetitive and don't make it much better.

If it can't be done in a reasonable way then I'd rather prefer more wood covered areas and smaller towns like we have seen in past Arma/Ofp maps (or something like in the old SAR3 game, but in one map). That's why I meant it might be better to just create an artificial environment instead of trying to replicate a huge area like Seattle that might come with compromises in the level of detail at ground level. But if they can do it in a way so that it looks nice even when flying through the streets or approaching a rooftop then this would be heaven of course.

And I think, because this is a game (even though a simulation game, hopefully), everyone should be free to either fly very low and/or stick to real world flight regulations. After all that's what games are about, you can try to be like real world people or you can try something different.

This is all just my opinion and I am mostly only releasing the frustrations I had with past helicopter simulations. For instance, DCS and X-Plane are on a high level with their flight dynamics (at least I believe that as a gamer), but I just can't enjoy low level flying with the coarse graphics.

[zoog]

This is in response to
For instance, DCS and X-Plane are on a high level with their flight dynamics (at least I believe that as a gamer), but I just can't enjoy low level flying with the coarse graphics.
That's exactly my biggest problem with DCS: Black Shark. The world feels lifeless, and once you are flying low it just feels so.... empty. Like a ghost world. Still, I really enjoy Black Shark because of how everything else is done. But I do hope that this simulation will be a hybrid between a great flight simulator with a good flight model combined with lively landmasses more like ArmA 2. That would be, for me, the best of both worlds.

I'm personally totally fine with a smaller map but more detailed compared to a large map but with a ghost world feeling and crappy flat texture buildings or generic 3d boxes as buildings.

[EMann]

I'm personally totally fine with a smaller map but more detailed compared to a large map but with a ghost world feeling and crappy flat texture buildings or generic 3d boxes as buildings.

Yes my preference would be a smaller map with more detail over a large one with sparse detail. This was one of the thing's that kind of bugged me about MSFS series & Xplane not much better.. great FM's, Airports etc, some cities but overall not anything to jump-up and down about graphic wise. Yes i am aware of the fantastic addon's you can get for these products, however as a straight out of the box item opinion can vary.
No doubt BIS are working hard to find compromise's to get a good balance between a traditional flight sim world where the priority is given to factors associated with the FM & WM (DCS, Lock-on series etc). And the open world type games (Arma, GTA IV) where playability, detail and definition shine through giving a greater sense of immersion and therefore leading the player to invest a bit more effort imho.

Ideally i can see Seattle being the living breathing HUB city for other 'Take-ON' products eg: Take-on planes & ships? and it would be great in someway to have these products being co-dependent on one another when online eg (real-time jobs or contracts etc) or AI commerce runs in the background when in single player (same jobs and contracts type as MP).
Eventually once Seattle has been fully tweaked and asset capacity reached. It will be time to move-on, why stop at Seattle? or Take-on tanks? you get the picture.

If flying around in Zargabad is any indication then i'm very interested, just this small map alone is keeps me entertained for hours:D

And Yes it's the FM, sounds ambient-interior, building/terrain detail & variety that is pulling me in, also love getting out of the chopper for a browse.. yep this is the ace BIS could have over the other sims imo, i look forward to the final release :)