IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover [Archive] - Bohemia Interactive Forums

Hans Ludwig

Jan 19 2011, 06:35

And 2011 will be forever known as the comeback of PC gaming. Hallelujah!

1C and Ubisoft Announce IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover

World famous IL-2 Sturmovik series of flight simulators roars over Britain. 1C Company and Ubisoft announced that IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover (for PC) will take off in March 2011.
IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover is the latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer 1C: Maddox Games.

IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover takes place in 1940 during the pivotal aerial battle for the skies over Britain between the British, the German and the Italian air forces.
Key Features:
• New aircraft: incredibly detailed true-to-life modeling of aircraft systems based on thousands of hours of dedicated research. Every single aircraft component can be damaged for realistic and immensely satisfying results.
- Flyable aircraft – Over a dozen famous and highly detailed English, German and Italian aircraft available, with all crew positions open to players. All flyable aircraft have been painstakingly researched, resulting in incredibly accurate cockpit interiors (including Spitfire, Hurricane, Messerschmitt and the Stuka).
- Non-flyable aircraft – 13 AI controlled additional aircraft are also available to allow an even more accurate and immersive experience thanks to a varied aircraft.
• Immersive game modes:
- Exciting Single-Player Campaign – The campaign thrusts the player into the middle of the battle. The player will join the British Air Force to fight the German forces and renegade pilots on his own side, or join the German Luftwaffe and take part in meticulously recreated historical battles.
- Massive multiplayer – Customizable modes range from simple deathmatch-style free-for-alls to epic, ongoing 128 player battles that can last hours, days, weeks, or even longer.
- Interactive training – Comprehensive interactive training for new players – fly a real WWII trainer plane with a computer controlled instructor through a series of training missions.

• Brand new setting – The battle will take place on a large area spanning London and southern England in the north, to Northern France and Belgium in the south. The huge map will contain thousands of historical cities, towns, roads, airfields, radar stations, ports, and industrial areas – all located exactly where they were in 1940.
• New 3D engine – Latest-gen graphics engine with DX10 and DX11 API support. Huge variety of photorealistic ground vehicles, buildings and other environmental elements recreate minute details of 1940s Europe.
• Customizable difficulty – dozens of realism options allow newcomers to the franchise to reduce the difficulty and focus on the fun while learning the ropes of being a pilot.

1C and Ubisoft also announced that IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover will be available in a special Collector’s Edition, along-side the standalone version.
This Collector’s Edition features the following collection of exclusive pilot material assets in a premium packaging:
- The Windows PC version of IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover
- A cloth pilot escape map showing The Battle of Britain strategic locations
- A replica of the Pilot’s Notes on the Spitfire I Aeroplane, provided to RAF pilots during The Battle of Britain and reprinted from the RAF Museum original document
- An in-depth 150-page ring binder pilot instructions

SOURCE:
http://www.1cpublishing.eu/news/1c-and-ubisoft-announce-il-2-sturmovik-cliffs-of-dover

A collection of screenshots and video
http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/category/computerspiele/storm-of-war-computerspiele/

Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO35o8IRDz0

Tonci87

Jan 19 2011, 08:48

Ubisoft? OK lets see what they will make out of it.....

EricM

Jan 19 2011, 13:54

Strangely enough, Wings of Prey (the console spin off which is supposed to use some of the same graphical code) seems to look better in some instances... Maybe it's just some eyecandy (time of day, shaders, post-fx), but for instance the ground textures look weird in some shots of this trailer...

On the other hand, the cockpits are nothing short of spectacular and the map does seem huge and well detailled. The grass and trees also seem very nice for a plane simulator.

At last, though, being that there doesn't seem to be an eastern front at all and no russian planes, it doesn't really make sense anymore to call it IL-2... (apart from the obvious marketing ploy).

Ben_S

Jan 19 2011, 15:01

So wait, This new "Il-2 Sturmovik : Cliffs of Dover", by 1C Maddox is just "Storm of War : Battle of Britian", renamed by Ubisoft as a marketing ploy. AS said above?

I'm confused, as theres no way oleg's team can be making 2 high grade games at once..

PrivateNoob

Jan 19 2011, 15:08

There is no confusion, it IS the new game.
sry,....flightsim. :P

Definitely going for the collectors edition on this one.

Foxhound

Jan 19 2011, 15:10

Ubisoft? OK lets see what they will make out of it.....

I stopped reading right after I saw ubisof announced it. Sad, it was a great title.

EricM

Jan 19 2011, 15:17

The fact that they published the original and 1946 doesn't count ?

dunedain

Jan 19 2011, 15:18

IL2 has always been published by Ubisoft right ? don't be such killjoys ..

Zipper5

Jan 19 2011, 15:25

Weren't Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon always published by Ubisoft, too? Heck, even Splinter Cell's joined their ranks. ;)

dunedain

Jan 19 2011, 15:28

Yeah, but Red Storm Entertainment is Ubisoft property, poor guys have no right anymore to do such good tactical shooters they used to. :(

Ben_S

Jan 19 2011, 15:30

Ubisoft just takes a good comapny, a good game. Then screws them over to make money.

Its a buisness industry.... :(

dunedain

Jan 19 2011, 15:34

They do, no worry for Il2 though, Ubisoft is just given the change to publish the game outside Russia. :cool:

Hans Ludwig

Jan 19 2011, 16:08

Yeah, I agree that the terrain textures and colors look like crap. That is especially true when you see what Wings of Prey, albeit a console port, was able to do in terms of eye candy.

Smurf

Jan 19 2011, 17:30

Yeah, but Red Storm Entertainment is Ubisoft property, poor guys have no right anymore to do such good tactical shooters they used to. :(

1 minute of silence on their behalf. :(

When I heard Ubi bought Massive (creators of GC and WiC) I almost cried.... What Ubi will force them to do? A new "Endwar" game? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

________

This new IL-2 (no IL-2 in the game...... for now? Tons of DLC incoming for sure) will be the excuse to buy a new Joystick to play properly!

Hans Ludwig

Jan 19 2011, 23:21

Box art: "Internet required to activate game."
http://www.data4u.ch/packshot/PC/UBD07764503/pack/UBD07764503-gr.jpg

dunedain

Jan 20 2011, 09:49

Oh god not that Ubisoft shit DRM.. :mad:

At least you're not forced to be connected to play the game anymore, no you just need to be online to start it. Which is stupid anyway..

Don't know if you guys followed the events over Assassin Creed 2, Splinter Cell Conviction and Silent Hunter 5, but the servers checking the game constantly were put down through DDoS attacks several times preventing honest players from playing their games and Ubi's DRM was cracked the same day of their release..

Now Ubi's servers only check the game when you start it, which means you won't have to restart it if you loose your connection .. Damn annoying DRM still ..

It's quite strange they'ld use this DRM with IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover while R.U.S.E. is free of it. :confused:

I hope I'm wrong and this will be only an Steam like activation, the kind you activate your game only one time and then you're not bothered ..

Tonci87

Jan 20 2011, 10:39

Yes Ubisoft has a great History of taking really good Games and then make an abomination of it that pleases the mainstream market. Oh and the DLCs of course.....
I really hope they wont screw this up. And I really hope that massive entertainment doesn´t screw up the next WiC because of them

])rStrangelove

Jan 20 2011, 11:14

Lol, what's wrong with C1? Are they mad? Dont they know what Ubisoft's reputation on the PC game market is atm? They'll be lucky to sell more than just some copies.

Richey79

Jan 20 2011, 12:26

I will no longer touch this game, unless I can get hold of the Russian version. Perhaps there will be a digital download option to buy direct from 1C. I'm enough of a realist to realise that the game might not have been released for another couple of years if they hadn't simply gone with UBI, but that doesn't change my opinion.

A shame, because I'm part of the ideal target market for the game: I'm a huge Oleg fan and bought all of the IL2 games seperately as they came out. I even love WOP, for all its limitations - and I have to say that COD (lol - shit name, by the way, UBI) looks considerably worse than WOP in some respects. All very well and good Oleg saying 'trust me - I'm a professional photog, these images haven't had the final colour adjustments yet,' but the game still won't look much better than IL2 when you're flying at speed. Yes, I'm sure the flight models will be superb and yes, that is the most important aspect of the game.

I can happily stick with IL2 and the million superbly modelled planes from 1946 and the community, along with WOP - which is frankly the best optimised game I've seen on PC - if they're going with UBI.

I realise that WOP had that terrible activations system and YUPlay, but for me, UBI are even worse. I remember when lots of people who had bought 1946 couldn't get it to run because Starforce didn't recognise their DVD drives. UBI didn't care. And now they're worse, with their appalling system of needing a constant internet connection. Why won't the morons drop it, when it's already been cracked!?

'We want our customers to be inconvenienced and the pirates to play unhindered.'

*Does the herp-a-derp*

Zipper5

Jan 20 2011, 13:23

Don't know if you guys followed the events over Assassin Creed 2, Splinter Cell Conviction and Silent Hunter 5...
I followed it. One thing I will definitely say - their system did nothing to stop piracy. In fact, I'd say they increased piracy of their games. ;)

])rStrangelove

Jan 20 2011, 13:26

Ubisoft

http://www.ubisoftgroup.com/gallery_files/site/270/1042/2306.pdf

Important information is on page 16 of the adobe document.

Sales by platform in %.
(sadly there is no net revenue in $ values)

Xbox360 - 22%
PS3 - 23%
Wii - 26%
PC - 8%

I think pc games are not important enough for Ubisoft. They make more profit with casual gaming on the consoles (esp Wii).

Tonci87

Jan 20 2011, 15:38

Yep the mighty casualisation! Ubisoft is best at it. Just see what they did of some former really good games. They dumbed them down on a level that even a chimp can beat the game

EDIT: I wonder if someone tried to give a wiimote to a chimp and let him play a little bit....

Maddmatt

Jan 20 2011, 17:07

)rStrangelove;1838533']I think pc games are not important enough for Ubisoft. They make more profit with casual gaming on the consoles (esp Wii).
8% is still a crapload of money. I'm sure it would be higher if it wasn't for their bulls**t copy protection.
It's hard to imagine what kind of idiots are making those decisions :confused:

An-225

Jan 20 2011, 23:47

Their draconian DRM has been changed for Cliffs of Dover. Internet is only required for one time activation, you can run the sim offline after that.

Hans Ludwig

Jan 21 2011, 04:19

Their draconian DRM has been changed for Cliffs of Dover. Internet is only required for one time activation, you can run the sim offline after that.

Link please?

Ubifail

"Never in the field of human conflict
was so much owed by so many to so few"
Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill - August 20, 1940
http://il2sturmovik.ubi.com/cliffs-of-dover/en-GB/home/coming-soon.aspx

An-225

Jan 21 2011, 09:52

Link please?

I don't have a link to the source, but apparently an Ubisoft official has confirmed this in their German forums. That's the story going around 1C and SimHQ, anyway.

])rStrangelove

Jan 21 2011, 10:45

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/daniel.clarke17/ndb00201012101541291588.jpg

jblackrupert

Jan 21 2011, 11:16

Ubisoft = No buy for me.

EricM

Jan 21 2011, 11:29

Sorry but this UBI-hatred thing is stupid... It's the product that counts, not the publisher.

They already take the risk to publish it (as they did with the original) on a niche market. And apart from their obnoxious DRM system (sad but blame the pirates first !), they have published and produced some really good games (Assassin's Creed is an artistic masterpiece). Damn, Rise of Flight system is even worse !

If anything, they're not better or worse than EA, Activision, THQ, Codemasters, you name it...

Not getting it because it's UBI will only make it even harder for people like Maddox games to sell any other simulators. Judge on the content, not the cover.

jblackrupert

Jan 21 2011, 11:44

Sorry but this UBI-hatred thing is stupid... It's the product that counts, not the publisher.

DRM is an major issue if you can't even install or get the game working because of it.

I have a copy of Crysis Warhead that sits unused because the copy protection scheme refuses to allow me to even install it. WARS installs fine because there is no DRM.

Piracy has been a bogus excuse since the days of VHS and floppy disks.

VHS is going to kill the movie industry......... Dual-cassette decks are going to kill the music industry......... Sony walkmans are going to kill the industry.....blah blah blah blah blah.
They've been screaming the same thing for decades. Hell even the button makers screamed bloody murder when the zipper was invented. They even tried to get the zipper banned.

Consoles (Wii, Xbox360 and PSP have a 100% availabilty of game images. PC doesn't even have that.)
in fact, BRAND NEW modded consoles are cheaper to buy on Craigslist then ones from from the store.

The only reason Playstation 3 has been virtually piracy free is because of the size of the games and the price of Blu-ray media/Bu-ray burners.

Zipper5

Jan 21 2011, 11:53

I feel sorry for the developers, as they probably care about their game and their fans. It's just a shame they've had to go to a publisher that is the exact opposite.

jblackrupert

Jan 21 2011, 12:00

Ubisoft even announced a few months ago that they were planning on eliminating paper manuals from their boxed games.

Now THAT is being greedy SOB's

mrcash2009

Jan 21 2011, 12:39

I agree the whole "need net" DRM shit is not welcomed at all.

Vote with wallet. That said, I want most of that Oleg does, but will skip this.

EricM

Jan 21 2011, 13:29

Imho, piracy did kill the disc industry and PC gaming alike, very much like it killed the Atari ST before... It's so easy to find cracked software on PC it's not even funny. Button makers and VHS didn't have to face the internet. It changed everything.

Obnoxious DRM isn't the answer either, as it makes buying the real deal more complicated than getting the bootleg, but nonetheless, piracy is the root of the evil.
While it's technically possible on consoles too, the whole process is much more complicated than two clicks. You have to mod the hardware, void your warranty etc... The market is different too.

One-time online activation is fine for me. That's what I have with photoshop, my 3D software, even Arma.

I hope Cliffs of Dover will be as fun, fluid and good looking as WOP, but with a mission editor and the massive scale a real flight deserves.

dunedain

Jan 21 2011, 14:07

I agree the whole "need net" DRM shit is not welcomed at all.

Vote with wallet. That said, I want most of that Oleg does, but will skip this.

Would be a shame since as far as I know 1C is big enough not to be under the thumb of Ubi. I do hope this won't be just the conventional excuse to download a great game on some torrent tracker ... Such games are rare enough in my opinion. :j:

One-time online activation is fine for me. That's what I have with photoshop, my 3D software, even Arma.

It's pretty much how Steam works and is quite a reasonable solution. I hope Ubi got told this time.. :rolleyes:

Hans Ludwig

Jan 21 2011, 21:19

Why didn't Oleg just sale his game on Steam? Who really needs publishers anymore?

Ben_S

Jan 21 2011, 21:26

Why didn't Oleg just sale his game on Steam? Who really needs publishers anymore?

I guess, publishers help advertise their games, and perhaps bring a little bit extra money and support to the devs.

But then again,This is ubisoft. So we have no idea why he's sticking with them.

Hans Ludwig

Jan 22 2011, 06:39

You be the judge.

Il2:COD
http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2011/01/full-4161-5368-shot_20110121_121826.jpg

http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2011/01/full-4161-5372-shot_20110121_124216.jpg

WOP a console port
http://i45.tinypic.com/b8wkzp.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/WfHG*Q2P*6FwcoiI9nTxtoaZ1dH1kixfdYbtNQKQkcdUd4KmLPGPMwqcFISIraID/shot2010.11.2123.50.34.jpg

Cookieeater

Jan 22 2011, 08:36

mrcash2009

Jan 22 2011, 10:52

@<hidden> :

Would be a shame since as far as I know 1C is big enough not to be under the thumb of Ubi. I do hope this won't be just the conventional excuse to download a great game on some torrent tracker ... Such games are rare enough in my opinion. :j:Notice i said vote with pocket and you come up with torrent, makes me wonder about you on the basis, as that's the first thing you came up with. Im not that cheap. Assumption are the mother of all fuck-ups.

Then again, there's a point in that some-place.

I will buy 1C sims, they are worth the price, but this DRM thing is getting pressed way too much. I will see what reports are once its out before I decide (about how this UBI DRM actually runs) .. mainly becuase I read some time back about the planned DRM from UBI and it was awful.

dunedain

Jan 22 2011, 11:35

how puerile.. :j:

Baff1

Jan 22 2011, 12:50

Any idea if this will be a LAN game?

mrcash2009

Jan 22 2011, 15:06

how puerile.. :j:

And insinuating that people who question DRM and decide not to pay for something means they are an auto torrent user is not similar? How about they just decide not to buy it and that's that.

If you mean puerile in the fact I will wait and see, then that's allot of people your suggesting it too.

Any issues you know where the PM button is.

])rStrangelove

Jan 22 2011, 15:52

Ubisofts DRM has nothing to do with Piracy, its all about binding a game key to an email account. The 2nd hand market is a much bigger threat to publishers than pirates are. Pirates wouldn't have bought the games they crack anyways, so not much money is lost.

But if you can hinder ppl to sell their games after completing them (in about 8 hours) you can raise your profit. And thats what counts in the end.

TFatseas

Jan 22 2011, 15:55

Heck, Il2 when it first came out back in 2001 was published by Ubisoft...

I'd buy it, but I doubt I have the computer to run it.

Hans Ludwig

Jan 22 2011, 18:37

Heck, Il2 when it first came out back in 2001 was published by Ubisoft...

I'd buy it, but I doubt I have the computer to run it.

Ubisoft of 2001 =/= Ubisoft of 2010

Ben_S

Jan 22 2011, 23:05

Ubisoft of 2001 =/= Ubisoft of 2010

Yes. But the point stands, Ubisoft published it for all those years. Why should there be a problem with them publishing it now when they published 1946, what, just a few years back?

The only thing they've seem to be allowed to do to this iteration so far is mess up its name for extra cash and stuff their DRM on it. Hopefully, the gameplay hasn't changed in all the years they've been developing it. :)

jblackrupert

Jan 23 2011, 09:12

Oh please, publishers have been saying piracy will kill PC gaming since Neverwinter Nights came out. Starcraft II, which is an extremely unfriendly PC exclusive RTS game sold 1.5 million copies on release.

A little bit longer then that......The days of 5 1/4 floppies more like.

You think DRM sucks now. Try playing games in the 80's with

- Codewheels

- Having to enter words from a 100+ page manual... Page XXX, paragraph XXX. line XXX

- Manuals printed on photocopy proof paper (Dark purple witn black print).

- Hardware dongles that sometimes refuse to work.

- Random popup "skill" testing questions on "mature themed" games.

The good part was games came in large boxes full of goodies and thick manuals. Games bases on books had a copy of the book inside.

Back then people actually bought games based on the weight of the box.

And EA was still run by Trip Hawkins.

Sputnik Monroe

Jan 23 2011, 19:36

I remember paragraph look ups and code wheels. The difference was you owned the game. Didn't have an internet connection or maybe your connection is just temporarily dropped? No problem you're are still allowed to play your game you paid for, your code wheel and instruction book with the paragraph checks inside work just fine with out an online connection. Y

I wish nothing but bad things for UBI Soft, EA and Activision. The sooner they leave the PC game industry the sooner we'll start to see games tailored for the PC again instead of just a bunch of crappy cross platform ports of FPS's and RTS's

Hans Ludwig

Jan 24 2011, 09:44

Personally I think the graphics pretty much suck and not that much different from the original game. I mean what were they doing for the entire six years that they are creating this game?

An-225

Jan 24 2011, 12:46

Personally I think the graphics pretty much suck and not that much different from the original game. I mean what were they doing for the entire six years that they are creating this game?

Working on critical components, such as the FM?

I think that the graphics are far better than the original, what with the addition of self shadowing and bump mapping, and 3D trees instead of a texture with the illusion of depth. They are more than adequate for the purposes of flight simulation.

Also, Ilya has stated on numerous occasions that the PR shots were taken with low settings on a low-end PC.

Tonci87

Jan 24 2011, 15:14

The Graphics don´t really matter in a flight sim, well at least the airplanes should look good. Someone ever played F/A-18 Hornet?

Hans Ludwig

Jan 25 2011, 01:13

The Graphics don´t really matter in a flight sim,

You're joking, right?

Tonci87

Jan 25 2011, 10:12

Well of course hey matter somehow, but other things are way more impotant to me. If at least the planes and the interior are modelled in high quality everything is fine for me. Ground Texture isn´t that important.

])rStrangelove

Jan 25 2011, 11:54

Someone ever played F/A-18 Hornet?

Yep. The ground was dark green and those grey lines down there were supposed to be roads.

Ah the memories. ;) took me ages to learn how to arm missiles lol.

Tonci87

Jan 25 2011, 12:16

And those little boxes on the ground were supposed to be Tanks and cars. Really a good game but took you ages to learn how to fly and use that Thing.
Does anyone know of a good Flight Sim without the need for a Joystick?

whisper

Jan 25 2011, 14:17

The Graphics don´t really matter in a flight sim, well at least the airplanes should look good. Someone ever played F/A-18 Hornet?

Some of the finest! At least, the best carrier based sim ever!
Going out of a tough mission, knowing you had this freaking orbit and approach still to do, then the proper landing on the metro ticket! It was keeping you on the edge until the very end. Awesome sim

And the ugliest one :D Yup, graphical look doesn't matter

mrcash2009

Jan 25 2011, 15:18

Working on critical components, such as the FM?

I think that the graphics are far better than the original, what with the addition of self shadowing and bump mapping, and 3D trees instead of a texture with the illusion of depth. They are more than adequate for the purposes of flight simulation.

Also, Ilya has stated on numerous occasions that the PR shots were taken with low settings on a low-end PC.

I agree, its not a leap forward into photorealism like the recent releases using IL's model, but I would imagine all that is under the hood of the sim itself needs to make balance with eye candy overhead. You could start dragging in all the sandbox system heavy v eye candy rail shooter examples but I wont.

this cockpit vid doesn't say ugly ...

VMFFQGryWhk

The only thing for me is the trailer and some of these videos either have overdubbed sound effects or muted audio, I WOULD be more disappointed to find the sim hasn't updated its sound engine model to that of something like WOP, now for me, that's something to have a complaint about.

Having said that from the videos you can tell its had some shading polish and other such things. Nothing I have seen has disappointed me (DRM aside for the moment). Although if your are expecting Wings Of Prey eye candy then yes I would imagine you would be annoyed at it.

That said, once your dog fighting and feeling the thing I would say that the eye candy just doesn't do it justice that its FM will.

Tonci87

Jan 26 2011, 13:36

Some of the finest! At least, the best carrier based sim ever!
Going out of a tough mission, knowing you had this freaking orbit and approach still to do, then the proper landing on the metro ticket! It was keeping you on the edge until the very end. Awesome sim

And the ugliest one :D Yup, graphical look doesn't matter

Yep always the finger over the afterburner key while doing the landing. If anything goes wrong and you have to abort you need speed speed speed.

So coming back tp my previous question

Does anyone know a good fligh sim that doesn´t need a joystick? I would love to play a good flight sim again and mouse+keyboard always worked for me (well exept in Lock on where you can´t move the joystick with the mouse......)

])rStrangelove

Jan 26 2011, 21:20

Does anyone know a good fligh sim that doesn´t need a joystick?

There's only ArmA / ArmA2 afaik. Although back then Rebel Assault wasnt too bad either with mouse. ;)

Tonci87

Jan 27 2011, 12:47

I don't understand it, why do fligh sim develppers have make their game to be Joystick exclusive? I mean, whats wrong with the mouse?

whisper

Jan 27 2011, 12:50

I don't understand it, why do fligh sim develppers have make their game to be Joystick exclusive? I mean, whats wrong with the mouse?

Not suited for "linear input" (ie, the farther away from center point, the harder the turn). "Center point" for a mouse is a very blurry concept :)

Tonci87

Jan 27 2011, 13:42

As far as I know it works perfectly (at least for me in some rare flight sims that allow it).

whisper

Jan 27 2011, 14:05

As far as I know, I hate how in A2, I need 2 square meters free on the desk for mouse movement while in flight ;)
And A2 doesn't require 1/10th of the precision of other simulations

Tonci87

Jan 27 2011, 14:22

Well I use the arrow keys for flying in arma. The Mouse is indeed to unresponsive. But for example in Lock on you can´t use the arrow keys....well you could theoretically but they are to unresponsive (doesn´t "pull" the joystick as far as it goes like in arma, but moves him sloooowly)

Does someone know if there is maybe a mod or something like that for Lock on that makes flying with Mouse+keyboard possible? I really don´t want to purchase a Joystick just for one game....

whisper

Jan 27 2011, 14:50

Well, honestly, the first time you do a good old air-refueling in an airsim, you see why a joystick is needed :)
You can purchase one for very cheap, if this is only for LOMAC

CommanderYuri

Jan 27 2011, 14:58

Nah, if you want one, get a good one. I am also more the keybord mouse pilot, but when a joystick, than a real one. My old Saitek cyborg 3D still works after some 10 years.

Tonci87

Jan 27 2011, 15:59

Can anyone say if DCS Black Shark is playable without a joystick? I would love to play a helicopter sim

whisper

Jan 27 2011, 16:31

forget it

Tonci87

Jan 27 2011, 16:36

Have you tried it?

KillaALF

Jan 27 2011, 16:46

If you want to play sims, get a decent joystick or better yet a HOTAS, everything else is just an exercise in frustration.

whisper

Jan 27 2011, 16:51

I have DCS:BS, and the mouse is used for the clickable cockpit.

Richey79

Jan 27 2011, 18:01

Logitech Extreme 3D Pro is about the cheapest you can spend to have a reasonable experience in a flight sim. You can probably pick one up for about £25. Less than that is a bit of a bargain.

I remember buying the original IL2. I wasn't into flight sims at all back then and was determined to fly using keyboard and mouse. Without analogue input, I couldn't even get 2/3 of the planes to take off, let alone tail any enemies accurately enough to get into a position where I might be able to start killing anyone.

jibemorel

Apr 1 2011, 08:51

It's out now. Good flight

Rok

Apr 1 2011, 15:09

CloD is currently unplayable on my old E4300@<hidden> + HD4850 system. And reading the forums even high end systems struggle with it. The game needs couple of performance patches badly.

Some people said ARMA2 was released unfinished. IMO this is on totally different level of unfinishness. :butbut:

bonchie

Apr 1 2011, 15:13

There's a huge following of this game at simhq.com, and it's currently mostly unplayable for even people with high end systems.

This is way past Arma2's release.

You can't even attempt the campaign missions in the game right now because it's a slideshow. Forget about flying over land unless it's just you in the air.

There's some serious coding problems with this game.

Hellfire257

Apr 1 2011, 16:28

What a bloody mess! How they have the nerve to release such a mess astounds me. From what I have read it might as well still be in alpha condition. Thank god I didn't buy it.

andersson

Apr 1 2011, 16:30

I was thinking of buying it now as they probably need the money, and the game will be fixed. Same story as with BIS armed assault.
I guess they didnt have the nerve to not release it..

Daniel

Apr 1 2011, 16:30

I was counting down to this release, shame I've been persuaded to pass for now. :(

andersson

Apr 1 2011, 16:36

I did some reading over at simhq and alot of people are complaining, so I guess its in quite a bad shape now (some seems to be able to play decent though). Anyway, one of them had a very good point in buying it now, its alot new to learn in procedures and engine management and he is using this time to practise and learn that so when its patched up so its playable he is ready to shoot down opponents instead of learning to fly ;)

Ben_S

Apr 1 2011, 16:39

I hear IL-2's first release was .. unstable. Back in what was it, 2002?

Hellfire257

Apr 1 2011, 18:00

It wasn't THAT bad. It was 2001.

SaOk

Apr 1 2011, 18:06

This have some FPS issues, but decreasing trees and buildings helps already (but not for London). Over the canal, even big battles with 20 planes work smooth for me. With some patching, I think this will be excelent sim for long time. There is much new details added since earlier Il2-sturmovik titles.

Baff1

Apr 1 2011, 22:27

Any confirmation on LAN functionality please?

mrcash2009

Apr 1 2011, 22:58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6frnSvS9J8

Stutters can be seen in this video (as mentioned not Fraps doing it) ... I see on Sim HQ new patch coming to optimise ... Like the new engine sounds, gun fire is pretty bad though, cuts off a bit strange.

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3254766/1/Optimisation_Patches_to_come_F.html

Will give it a a few patches before I purchase, then price comes down too :) Then upgrade PC ... etc etc. Dont think I will trash the idea of getting this, just a waiting game.

Max Power

Apr 2 2011, 04:16

At least one person on the internets finds the game playable!

http://www.lockonfiles.com/index.php/topic/36031-il-2-cliffs-of-dover-review/

Binkowski

Apr 2 2011, 05:01

i've been looking into purchasing this.. just wondering if it's worth my money. right now it's neck and neck between this, and DCS A10C.

i suppose i could listen to eric johnson while playing this. lol.

Hans Ludwig

Apr 2 2011, 05:51

No videos of 128 player MP?

andersson

Apr 2 2011, 06:54

Max Power

Apr 2 2011, 07:21

I think they were quite shocked at the number of pirate copies of the previous game on multiplayer and they want a way to control online play this time. It's a shame we can't use hyperlobbey anymore.

Richey79

Apr 2 2011, 09:15

I remember the frustrating hours spent trying to 'fix' something about my system so that Arma 2 would run at a consistently playable frame-rate for the first six months after release.

Well, I think I've got my figure of how long after release I'll be considering buying Battle of Britain: Storm of War.

Hope they get it sorted and the reviews saying 'buggy piece of alpha-software' don't sink on-going development.

mrcash2009

Apr 2 2011, 14:09

once that part was finished, I was ready to install it - provided that I had a STEAM account, yes : you need a Steam account to install it even if you did not buy it at Steam. (http://www.lockonfiles.com/index.php/topic/36031-il-2-cliffs-of-dover-review/)

Shit... I really want this game.. But I dont want steam. Idiots.

Even more reason to boycott the whole "Steam Only" debate, more and more money exchange to get steam in front of you no matter if you do or dont, cant stand that shit one bit. Surprised you dont get a Tesco's club card sign up form in the box too.

Wonder how much IL2 got for supporting that "promotion".

On that basis I will skip it, "Bag-o-shite".

Baff1

Apr 2 2011, 15:57

I heard that CoD had a method of connecting to other games outside of Steam. An IP join or something?

andersson

Apr 2 2011, 16:04

I see hints of hope out there. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8071032709/m/1421016419?r=1971013519#1971013519)
I read something similar another place. Its about that the code is there for it to work in hyperlobby and outside steam. Cant find the first better link I read earlier.

jblackrupert

Apr 2 2011, 23:38

Don't know how legit this is, but according to this post there is some
kind of anti-epileptic seisure filter in the game thats effecting the performance.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=19418

Max Power

Apr 3 2011, 00:41

That's a noble endeavour. They should have a way to turn it off for those who don't require it, though.

Richey79

Apr 3 2011, 11:42

I read in one guy's review that the devs said the filter could be turned off with a .cfg command.

He'd tried it and said he thought it was just a placebo effect.

An-225

Apr 3 2011, 13:40

The latest patch provided the ability to toggle it via GUI in the options...

InstaGoat

Apr 3 2011, 20:27

I wanted to buy this right after it was out, then I missed the release day. Now I come back to it and it seems to be a mess of a release...

How bad is it, really? Compared to how well Arma 2 ran at release (which I found decent, but not perfect)

Max Power

Apr 3 2011, 21:11

That's anyone's guess, and probably it depends on your system and other things. ArmA 2 was very broken when it was released, but it was also quite fun. Whether you buy it now or after it's fixed is simply a question of timing. They're talking about patches, and have released a patch already (I think), so really do you want to own it now or later? Before or after it's fixed? I don't think that fans of the genre should be tip toeing around this game. The (first) il2 series had amazing longevity, was continually developed and expanded.

Ben_S

Apr 3 2011, 21:20

Yeah, How bad is it really?

I'm going to guess it's nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. Once i get my new PC, this is going right near the top of my to-get list.

Also, is it me or do people not put trust in developers? I mean, are we to the point where people trust random people on youtube preaching about how crap a game is, over a team that have made great games since 2001 - a few days after release of their latest game?

I mean, seriously ...

Daniel

Apr 3 2011, 21:55

Are you being sarcastic there?

Reviews by general members of the public ought to be as unbiased as possible. They aren't out to make a profit, and they're not being paid to give a good review, they're telling you how it is.

If this game was working as expected, it wouldn't be getting this level of bad press. At least that's what my intuition and my wallet are telling me.

Ben_S

Apr 3 2011, 21:58

Daniel

Apr 3 2011, 22:10

It shouldn't be like that though. You should pay full price for a game that works properly from the start. If we accept releases of this state they might as well charge us to beta test too.

Although, if you're willing to pay regardless, be my guest. I'm happy to wait for a fully working version.

In the meantime, i'll wait for more positive reviews.

Ben_S

Apr 3 2011, 22:17

Well, Generally speaking, You wont get a bug free release from any indie developer.

Buying a game day 1 is practicly paying for the beta version whilst they patch it up around you. An indie developer will hardley ever be able to release a game bug free, and I've never seen it before.

However, It depends on how badly the game is bugged I suppose. So, How bad is IL-2? And how bad will it be this time next year?

Patch 1 has already been released, and the devs are on the forums collecting information for future patches. And the game was only released a week ago.

I'm going to say, Trust the developer who did a good job with IL-2 previously, and let them fix it now they have information about the bugs. You would be surprised how much information a community of PC gamers can collate about a game's performance issues on machines (definantly the major problem with CoD). Everything from stats between VRAM usage on 1.5GB, 1.0GB and 2.0GBVRAM GPU's, to charts matching performance between CPU threading. (for example, that is)

EDIT:
Remember, that there's going to be 2 patches out before the game is even fully released (as the game is only released in Russia and Europe so far ... )

Max Power

Apr 3 2011, 23:09

It shouldn't be like that though. You should pay full price for a game that works properly from the start. If we accept releases of this state they might as well charge us to beta test too.

Although, if you're willing to pay regardless, be my guest. I'm happy to wait for a fully working version.

Well, it is like that, I guess. Especially in the Sim genre.

Tonci87

Apr 4 2011, 08:46

@<hidden> remember Ubisoft 2001 is not Ubisoft 2011
I personally don´t really trust Ubisoft. They have made some really bad decisions over the last few years. I would even say that Assassins creed is their only good brand. Everything else (especially major PC Titels) like for example Silent Hunter is being released in a very bugged way.

Ben_S

Apr 4 2011, 15:00

Luckily, it's not developed by Ubisoft and is developed by 1C Maddox, who made IL-2 since 2001. Even Oleg is still there.

whisper

Apr 4 2011, 15:20

Oleg is not in the dev team anymore, since more than a year now.
He's just a name to give the title better reputation

Ben_S

Apr 4 2011, 15:34

.. Well thats funny as Oleg has been spending time on the forums, giving updates about his game. Hell, late 2010 he even went into the forums to make sure people knew he was still with 1C and still working on IL2, it's just that he has other things, as well as, game development*.

(*Source: (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=17736))
(Source2: (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=237406&postcount=57))

Baff1

Apr 4 2011, 15:58

It was more a fact of, I would trust the developer who'd been making IL-2 games since 2001 to be capable of fixing the game up, especially since the release of the game is following the same lines as the first release (remember, 1C has already released a patch, Yesterday)

Over putting my trust in some random guy on YouTube preaching about it's bugs on day1 release.

It's not that it's unbiased, it's that people don't trust developers. And often go into rages for things that are guaranteed, You buy a game day 1. It's going to have bugs.

And I, and most people here I would guess, would trust (especially) indie developers to patch up their game. As much as we would trust BIS if they released a buggy ArmA game (God heavens no?)
I put my trust in the bloke who rang me up this morning to say he couldn't get the game past the interface screen.

LMAO all the years he has been waiting for this.

With regards to trusting indie developers....
What is to stop them going bust if they had to release early out of financial contraints and the release was so buggy it then got bad reviews and probably won't sell well?

This is hardly the kind of scenario which fills me full of "trust".

Ben_S

Apr 4 2011, 16:09

Having trust in a developer does not mean you have to go buy it day 1. I may trust developers, but I don't buy games day 1.

I do trust Maddox and the team, They haven't gone bust over the last 10 years, so I don't see why they would go bust all of a sudden near the release of their latest game. I'm going to guess it's just a rough release, and nothing more.

Baff1

Apr 4 2011, 16:40

The date of their release is the most likely time for any studio to go bust.
They have come to the end of their loan period and now must pay it back.

If the sales don't come fast enough they won't be able to.

Ben_S

Apr 4 2011, 16:54

Well, They're working hard, that is obvious.

They've not released the game in the US yet, and already the 2nd patch will be here by then.

Truthfully, none of us know what's going on behind the scenes. It may just be one of those 'it needs time out in the market to get more info from people to bugfix' things, over an actual problem with finances. I don't know.

You may be right, perhaps 1C is going bust. But, I doubt it.

Baff1

Apr 4 2011, 17:26

It never matters to me if developer is going bust or not because I don't buy the game unless I feel it is fit for purpose/good value at the point of sale.

There is no such thing in life as a lifetime guarentee.
And the games industry in particular is well known for having studio's fold with regularity.
It's a very hit or miss business.

I'm currently downloading this one. Steam is an arse as always.
I'm intrested to see if I can get something playable out of it.
I don't think I'm going to spend a lot of time battling with it if it isn't.

InstaGoat

Apr 4 2011, 17:46

bought the game today, tested it, and I must say it´s a hog. Arma 2 was finely polished upon release compared to this.

Performance is abysmal, even when using low gfx settings. Missions don´t load. Flicking certain options causes the game to freeze up completely, needing a hard reboot. Options ticked are not remembered by the game upon restart. Loading, if Missions load at all, is slow. And this is only the things I discovered after running it for 15 minutes... one hard reboot, one CTD and four lockups in that time.

I am mildly disappointed, I have to say, though I trust maddox to up their game and fix this before it turns from a medium sized catastrophe to a complete catastrophe.

(But at least the shadows in the cockpit look good, if you can get ingame.)

Max Power

Apr 4 2011, 17:50

Wow! That's pretty tough, instagoat.

Did you patch it up to get the option to get rid of the epilepsy screen? Did that make any difference? I'm curious because I've never heard of such a thing.

InstaGoat

Apr 4 2011, 17:54

Wow! That's pretty tough, instagoat.

Did you patch it up to get the option to get rid of the epilepsy screen? Did that make any difference? I'm curious because I've never heard of such a thing.

Yeah, I did. Didn´t try it with the filter on, but it apparently does produce a noticeable drop in fps.

I really hope this isn´t a sign of Maddox being in financial trouble or anything, though, because if they go belly up, we´ll be stuck with this wreck. I think it really has potential, the planes look amazing, and the flight model itself is fantastic again, and once in the air the landscapes aren´t bad either.

It´s just that the thing is riddled with more bugs than our lawn right now.

Baff1

Apr 4 2011, 22:48

I can't even get it to launch currently.

Uninstallling AVG.
That seems to block all known games currently.
Maybe that's the prob.

Edit.
So far to get it to work, I have had to...
Uninstall AVG
Updated GFX driver
Set Steam to "offline mode".
I'm not finished yet...

I can now actually see some render on my screen.
And I have to say with GFX settings at low, it looks significantly worse than the original at this point.

I'll see if I can get it to function and then if I can turn them up a bit.

Edit 2
I've given up.
I run a triple screen setup and it can't cope with it at all.

I've had it rendering bits of the game. Enough to see what it would look like if it worked. Maybe 2/3rds of the screen.

And horribly, over London, it lags. On miminum settings. GFX settings that make the Original look bloody glorious in comparison.

In all honesty, you would have to pay me to play this.
There are a shit load of free games available to download instead of wasting time with this. Let alone money.

If you are or were a big fan of IL2 Sturmovik, I strongly advise you to play that game instead.
I'll come back to this one in a few years time.

If you've bought it already, don't open the box. Take it straight back.
After 10 years I normally expect a game to be improved in someway. But this development seems to have gone into reverse gear for ten years instead of forwards.

On the plus note... LAN is supported!
Hahaha.

whisper

Apr 5 2011, 10:00

GossamerSolid

Apr 7 2011, 20:29

I don't blame anything on the devs, I blame it on the publishers that rushed the game out. If it was up to the devs, they'd say it's not ready and not ship it... but publishers just see $ and they want to milk fans of the series.

Lucky for me, I'm just going to stay with 1946 until it's been patched up quite a bit.

NoRailgunner

Apr 8 2011, 15:53

Its a contract between devs and publishers and both do know when the project is on schedule or behind. Guess the best thing for devs is if the producers walks in and gives them +6 month more to work on it. ;)

IL2 is now at 4.101m. Daidalos Team are currently working on the Il2 4.11 patch.

EricM

Apr 8 2011, 20:14

That's really a pitty this game runs so bad and consequently looks so bad for so many people, while Wings of Prey - it's little arcadish brother - is so stunningly fluid and gorgeous. Granted the terrain is much smaller, but that's what streaming is meant for, right ? or is this the über flight-model that's killing everybody's machines ?

On the french forums, it's being nicknamed CloDo, which in French means "hobo". Not very flattering...

InstaGoat

Apr 8 2011, 22:18

Something must´ve gone wrong with the game code. The way it´s running (or rather, not running at all) for me as it is, is terrible. I´ve now figured out that I can´t load -any- of the missions, quick missions or FMB missions apart from the tutorials...

On top of that the abysmal performance and numerous other glitches. Their excuse is that "PCs are difficult to develop for because there´s so many different setups.", which I don´t buy. BI manages to get Arma, an also humongously complicated program, to run on the largest part of machines. Many other companies produce games that run well on most PCs, as WELL AS on Consoles!

I don´t know what they´ve been doing all this time, but their quality control really is a catastrophe. I´ve even reinstalled 1946 and ditched CoD for the time being, because right now it´s simply unplayable. I´ll wait a few patches, and if there´s no improvement, I´ll give the game back.

Max Power

Apr 8 2011, 23:40

1946 and its predecessors were also a complicated game and it had none of these problems. Their indication that it would be better to develop such a game on consoles is laughable. It can't be an issue of technology, either, because modern consoles (which are mostly powered by ATi technology), have the same basic graphics capabilities as PCs.

Ben_S

Apr 8 2011, 23:51

Well, the second patch was released today (Source:1C Forums (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=20911))

Thank you everyone for your test reports.

We are looking to see into what's happening with HD 68xx-69xx users. We did put some last-minute changes into the release patch compared to the beta patch, and apparently something there did not click with that particular line of video cards. However some people with 6xxxs do report improved or acceptable performance, so this may be tied to some specific settings.

Quick thing to try is to delete the contents of your
(Documents)\1C SoftClub\il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover\cache\shaders
and see if that helps it.

If you have a HD 68xx or better Radeon card, you more than meet the recommended reqs and should not need to turn down any settings besides perhaps Forest and Buildings Amount.

We'll be looking into this aggressively and by Monday should have either a hotfix or a rollback for the affected users. My apologies to everyone affected.

(Source:1C Forums - luthier - 1C Dev (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=257660&postcount=151))

Apparently they're having issues with the HD68xx series of GPUs causing performance issues. And a hotfix is planned (Source: (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=257660&postcount=151))

Looking around, I may stick with '46 for now, let them patch up the game to a playable standard before I get it. And get myself a new PC, one that, might actually be able to run it.

Rok

Apr 10 2011, 14:08

Nice performance mod by Kegetys:
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3265101/1.html

The game is actually playable now in 1920x1080 resolution although all terrain settings in minimum. Before the mod I couldn't fly over land at all. Now I dared to even fly over London - obviously it was low fps but flyable.

Zipper5

Apr 10 2011, 16:57

Kegetys fixes everything. :D

Richey79

Apr 10 2011, 19:25

I'm still using Kegetys' 6dof TrackIR mod for '46. Makes the experience so much more up to date. It will really take something special to make me move to the new release. Honestly, from screenshots and videos I have to think that the CoD team have upped the polygon and detail counts massively, but the result has been quite a small improvement in the general visual feel of the game. The cockpits look great, but the English countryside just looks really 'off'.

When you look at Wings of Prey and how well optimised it is, it really makes you start to think. I've stopped buying games that don't use multi-threaded CPU cores and multi-gpus out of the box (of course, excepting those where Nvidia / ATI simply haven't had a chance to update their drivers for release). How long have we been using at least dual-core CPUs for now? It really makes you worry that they just took the IL2 engine and bolted lots of extra features onto the flight model, ground unit behaviour etc.

At least if devs make a console version of the game they are forced to make use of multi-threading from the ground up when building their engine.

johanna

Apr 16 2011, 03:55

Jeeeeeeees, this 'game' is a unplayable freak! Touche, was looking forward to it...

Richey79

Apr 16 2011, 15:18

Have you tried the new 'beta' patch? - Some people are saying it fixes the frame-rate issues. Most of them seem to have pretty high-end machines, though.

Patch should roll out to Steam on Monday. I'm still waiting on a fix for SLI / Crossfire before I even start to consider whether there's enough content (relative to '46) to justify a purchase :( Shame, as it was a game I was really just looking for any excuse to buy. Can't just throw away money, though.

*Reports of patch* (http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3271118/Crap.html#Post3271118)

*First video that's made me think there might be something interesting here* (http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3270810/Because_this_deserves_to_be_po.html#Post3270810)

Edit: 4/10 Gamespot review. (http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/sim/il-2-sturmovik-cliffs-of-dover/review.html)

Oh dear. Sounds like they got someone who's played a few sims in his time to review it, too.