View Full Version : Which recoil model do you prefer?
In the new Operation Arrowhead beta version (71900) the recoil makes the gun go up and doesn't automatically bring it to the original level. Do you find it a good solution or do you prefer the old way?
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Very strongly prefer the vanilla OA recoil.
new one, but tone it down just a little
The new recoil model is great but it needs a bit of fine tuning for different caliber etc.
New one, getting 25-30% (especially at the AK's) toned down and optionally randomizing the direction that the weapon moves to when firing.
Realism-wise the new recoil makes no sense because nobody makes it an effort to bring the sights down after firing a weapon. The beta patch simulates a strange kind of muscle stiffness where a soldier keeps aiming where the gun raised its barrel, and that just doesn't happen.
I don't have OA yet but I hate the beta recoil just by looking at it.
Sight not rezeroing automatically is great news, however muzzle climb seems a bit overdone.
Wolfstriked
Jul 2 2010, 21:03
I haven't tried the new beta yet but from video.....How I think it should work.First off it should offset by a tiny amount and not just upwards.We are asking for the after effect of recoil which is the body trying to force weapon back down to starting postion(centered on target).This effect isnt perfect in real life and instead alot of times the shooter overcompensates and aimpoint drops down below,sometimes not down far enough and sometimes its offset to either side.
What is happening in beta is after each shot the weapon stays at highest point the recoil sent it too.We do not want this....instead we want the weapon to drop back down BUT not to exact point it was before.If engine does not allow aimpoint to be set below/above/left or right of initial point than at least give us a weapon that goes up and only comes down 3/4 the distance that initial recoil caused.
Also the screen shake is awesome but needs to be looked at again.Take a PKM and fire it standing/crouching and prone.Prone has a beautiful screen shake effect and also the weapon animation is sweet.Leave this prone screen shake setting for all 3 positions and let the recoil be the factor in choosing which position is optimal.Right now with recoil and the EXCESSIVE screen shake while standing,shooting a PKM becomes way too hard.
I think the weapon should return to a random position around (Preferably slighty above/under and more to the sides) where it started before the shot.
Wolfstriked
Jul 2 2010, 21:12
I think the weapon should return to a random position around (Preferably slighty above/under and more to the sides) where it started before the shot.
The recoil of Arma2 probably will not support the under or to the sides.But if they can make aimpoint move up and back down BUT "slightly" above the initial than its sweet enough.
The recoil of Arma2 probably will not support the under or to the sides.But if they can make aimpoint move up and back down BUT "slightly" above the initial than its sweet enough.
Then they should make it support it! :p
Just out of curiosity why are so many people voting for option 2? And before you say "it's more realistic" please take into account:
1. By all accounts modern assault rifles recoil backwards not upwards
2. A little thing called gravity pulls the gun down automatically.
I would much rather as people have already suggested that the recoil automatically re-centres the gun, but with a slight randomised offset - so you have to fine tune the aim.
Wolfstriked
Jul 2 2010, 21:35
I totally agree!!! Otherwise you run the Stalker game series of recoil that no one likes.Some of the weapons from Stalker would shoot so high up that you felt so out of tune with game and super aggravated at same time.
---------- Post added at 05:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:33 PM ----------
Back to screen shake effect...not really off-topic.Take a PKM and the crouching screen shake feels like firing a 7.62 caliber weapon.Then take the RPK and prone has no screen shake at all while the standing feels sweet for a smaller caliber weapon as compared to the PKM.
Just out of curiosity why are so many people voting for option 2? And before you say "it's more realistic" please take into account:
1. By all accounts modern assault rifles recoil backwards not upwards
2. A little thing called gravity pulls the gun down automatically.
I would much rather as people have already suggested that the recoil automatically re-centres the gun, but with a slight randomised offset - so you have to fine tune the aim.
Well, how it was was too easy, and what is suggested is currently not possible. So Option 2 is the best for now. :p
There wasn't any recoil in vanilla, it was like Call of Duty - The new one is nice step but they need to turn it into a kickback instead of a weapon that keeps rising. The best way to simulate proper 'recoil' is by the weapon going up and then about 90% down again, so you still see the weapon rise but the kickback is what throws off the aim. Should be a natural reaction for the soldier in-game to counter the recoil by pulling it down, shouldn't be our job as it's a bit of a chore with the mouse.
I prefer the old, this is the 1st part of the video.
Obviously it needs some fine tuning, but the effect is better than shooting round after round in the same exact point. Readjusting feels the way it should be
More kickback and less nose up effect would be wanted i guess by everyone here..
Just out of curiosity why are so many people voting for option 2? And before you say "it's more realistic" please take into account:
1. By all accounts modern assault rifles recoil backwards not upwards
2. A little thing called gravity pulls the gun down automatically.
I would much rather as people have already suggested that the recoil automatically re-centres the gun, but with a slight randomised offset - so you have to fine tune the aim.
I'm sorry but thats bolloxx.
1. Muzzle climb and recoil are two different things.
It is true that most 5.56 chambered weapons have little recoil and muzzle climb, however the big variables are stance, ergonomics and skill not the weapon itself.
When someone remarks about harsh recoil he usualy means "hard to react to"-recoil.
In fact a weapon with strong but somehow predictable kick (f.e. the M14, G3 or to a lesser degree FAL ) would almost always be percieved as having better characteristics as a rifle with overall milder but unpredictable kick ( f.e. 7,62 chambered AKs ).
To say that "modern assault rifles recoil backwards instead of upwards" is unexact to put it at it's mildest.
2. That might be true in certain cases of shooting from a lying stance resting the handguard ( or god beware the barrel ) without proper forehand grip.
However you train as hard as you can to control all the forces involved - including gravity - with the proper motoric reaction - muscle memory ultimatly.
For our game that means that the recoil is picture perfect in the new beta, but that there is one important flaw: We cannot possibly react as fluidly and quickly to the muzzle climb as a person in real life with some good training would.
That will not change unless we start controlling games via brain implant in the distant future.
So ultimatly leave the recoil as it is but add some degree of automatic shooter response.
If not possible just reduce the muzzle climb somewhat as so many have allready suggested.
Flash Thunder
Jul 2 2010, 22:04
Just needs alittle toning.
@Hunin
I agree with you mate. It was an oversimplification on my part as muzzle climb is not the same as recoil, but they are connected. But this is a game after all. I don't want to spend all evening dragging my mouse down my desk.
Cossack8559
Jul 2 2010, 22:08
I like it better than before... just tone it down a little bit.
@Hunin
I don't want to spend all evening dragging my mouse down my desk.
Good point ;).
Agree, i don't want to spend all evening dragging my mouse down my desk too.
Make it simple, ofp type was good enough.
Wolfstriked
Jul 2 2010, 22:29
What was OFP like?
Pauliesss
Jul 2 2010, 22:37
The new one, but tone it down a bit. :)
Wolfstriked
Jul 2 2010, 22:48
Would a slow down of "return to original aimpoint" work.What I mean is instead of the jump we have now with no simulation of the shooter forcing the weapon back down....instead BIS could slow down the return to center speed slightly to simulate the re-acquiering that the shooter has to do?So firing on semi would feel like default while a burst and you have to wait a bit longer to recenter and full auto a bit longer till aimpoint is back on target.
I think there should be less upwards recoil , that's it.
Well, in order not to scare people away from this game, I find a compromise between the current ace recoil and the vanilla AO system most suitable for all players.
SWAT 4 has an excellent recoil model. It was really hard to shoot in full auto while moving. I really enjoyed that.
edit: and from what I can see in video I think that it's great that you have to manually put it down after each burst. Very realistic and will add more thirlling into firefights. No need for having ARMA to be an easy game.
JonieTurnock
Jul 2 2010, 22:55
Cant we just have it adjustable the now recoil being extreme end of the slider and the vanilla being the left end. Makes most sense to me. we'll only end up with 101 mods for everyones playing style.
Mr. Charles
Jul 2 2010, 22:57
I think the Original OA recoil system is way sufficient, just add kickback of the rifle to delay the other shots.
We just have people playing on our public server with the beta pacht and they don´t like the new recoil system, especially the ones who already have problems to hit anything in vanilla OA :). It´s really a hard piece of work to draging your mouse around properly.
---------- Post added at 11:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 PM ----------
I think the Original OA recoil system is way sufficient, just add kickback of the rifle to delay the other shots.
Yeah, it´s cool, since in contrast to A2, its a much harder to keep track of your target with the OA recoil. I would also favour a small dispersion penalty for bullets when you rapidly fire single shots after each other at a target.
Wolfstriked
Jul 2 2010, 23:04
I think that a slow down of speed might be better here.Take a rifle and shoot one shot.Right now it takes maybe 1/2 a second to recenter on target since you have to do it manually.Before it recentered automatically and was almost instant.Would it not work if the speed to recenter was slowed down to simulate shooter having to recenter?
tested the recoil on defualt us soldier in single fire (the default firing mode for nearly all soldiers except untrained guerilla/terrorists.) it feels very good. moves only a little up and settles a little. very good. very easy to keep on target but now it needs just a little more concentration adn effort. then tried it on full auto. becomes only slightly more tricky. still managable.
so i thought that maybe there's a lot of LMG/MG heroes complainign about the recoil. so i tried the lmg and the recoil while standing; firing in bursts isn't bad at all.
to me it is spot on.
edit - the fal has quite a bit more recoil than the scar but then thats spot on. shooting while standing with it is a little challenging. couching is much more managable and prone its piss easy again. stance counts when firing a weapon. that's the a good simulation of the different gun types in my book.
Wolfstriked
Jul 2 2010, 23:23
Don't let this idea go unnoticed here.A reduction in speed of return to center would be perfect.Reason is that it will allow people to put aim on enemy and just fire....wait fire.Or if you want to be faster than you can adjust the speed with mouse by quickening the return to center.I think this would make for the most real feel.
Richey79
Jul 2 2010, 23:29
I really like it the way it is in the beta.
I would be open to the suggestion of it being toned down 20% if I'm in the minority; the barrel settling in a more randomized position is an attractive proposition.
CarlGustaffa
Jul 2 2010, 23:55
My views based on watching video only, so keep that in mind:
1) Kickback is hard to notice, but if others say it's there I'll accept that. Kick back should not be extreme no matter the power of the gun - the shake takes care of that in a good enough fashion.
2) Barrel rise seems excessive, at least for the weapon. Also it appears very predictable, so should be more random.
3) What drives the barrel rise, have anyone tested? Is it based on caliber, muzzle velocity, weapon dexterity, or (I hope not) same for everything? An M107 I would expect to have great climb standing up. A 7.62 based assault rifle I would expect to have greater climb than a 5.56 based one, even less on a 9mm SMG. I would expect more "control" (less climb) if you had a handgrip (or short barreled assault weapons designed for CQC, which would most likely be reflected in the dexterity value).
But, I do like where this is going. Hell no, I'm loving it :D
Wolfstriked
Jul 2 2010, 23:59
Carl,do you think that a slowing down of return speed would be better then the weapon fires up and stops in beta?If you look at videos of OA with NV and lasers you will really notice how fast the recoil effect goes away with stock recoil.Its snap up and down.If they were to just increase this speed slightly then you would have best of both worlds.The simplicity we have now of placing aim on target with ability to enhance your aim with mouse.
Carl,do you think that a slowing down of return speed would be better then the weapon fires up and stops in beta?If you look at videos of OA with NV and lasers you will really notice how fast the recoil effect goes away with stock recoil.Its snap up and down.If they were to just increase this speed slightly then you would have best of both worlds.The simplicity we have now of placing aim on target with ability to enhance your aim with mouse.
wtf. how many times do you have to repeat yourself?
Wolfstriked
Jul 3 2010, 00:21
Ok,nevermind.
megagoth1702
Jul 3 2010, 00:29
New one of course, just not sooo hard, as everybody said - calibers should get their own recoils. An AK smashes way more than a high-end rifle I guess.
Panzer Jager
Jul 3 2010, 01:04
New one is amazing, it's a bit strong, currently it is directly derived from the weapon recoil - aka, if you have a weapon that has alot of recoil, viewkicking is alot more than if you have a weapon that doesn't have alot of recoil.
Maybe it should be a toggle just like the "camera shake" recoil. I don't enjoy the camera shaking recoil, so I disable it, which makes recoil like it was in ArmA 2 - and ArmA 2 recoil with this new viewkicking is awesome. Just, as has been said, tone it down a bit. Reducing by 25-50% should be enough.
Wolfstriked
Jul 3 2010, 01:22
The recoil right now moves the aim to highest point the weapon reaches from recoil.Some people are asking for reduced amount....but reduced from what?Its got no return being modeled if you catch my drift.
Infam0us
Jul 3 2010, 01:28
Hi all
Keep it as it is.
Kind Regards - Infamous
Cant we just have it adjustable the now recoil being extreme end of the slider and the vanilla being the left end. Makes most sense to me. we'll only end up with 101 mods for everyone's playing style.
I totally agree with you here mate, sound's like something that would keep most parties for/against the new recoil happy.
On a side note I also would like to mention that there should be different values on different weapons, for example an MP5 shouldn't have the same recoil/muzzle rise as an AK. maybe just giving different calibers different values would suffice for me personally to save on time/trouble in doing every weapon separate
AnimalMother92
Jul 3 2010, 03:29
I agree with the majority of posts. I like having to aim after each shot, combined with the screen shake it feels really cool. However, it shouldn't be just muzzle climb, there needs to be variation to the kickback. Also, there needs to be some adjustment for different weapons having different amounts of recoil. Right now it feels overdone on most weapons and is basically an exercise in frustration but I'm eager to see where this goes.
Realism-wise the new recoil makes no sense because nobody makes it an effort to bring the sights down after firing a weapon. The beta patch simulates a strange kind of muscle stiffness where a soldier keeps aiming where the gun raised its barrel, and that just doesn't happen.
I don't have OA yet but I hate the beta recoil just by looking at it.
Don't knock it till you've tried it.
OA features a plethora of 7.62 weapons -- from a purely game balance point it makes a lot of sense to actually limit their overwhelming advantage over the 5.56/5.45 type calibers. Remember one of the major shortfalls of Arma2 is that it the penalty for carrying heavier/longer/more cumbersome weapons is non-existent. Which lead to the total domination of the DMR and PKP in vanilla arma2.
If you thought the DMR was bad in Arma2 -- imagine the Mk17 as a reiteration issued to all special forces soldiers. Often with a GL and thermal sight from the getgo.
End of the line is this: If you can't handle the new recoil of the Mk17 -- use a 5.56 weapon.
-k
Arklight
Jul 3 2010, 07:13
In all my years of shooting, both competitively and not, I have never seen a weapon recoil like what is in the beta video (and that includes a wide range from the Ultra Light Arms .300 Win Mag. Hunting rifle to the SAW). There should be a random deviation from the main point of the first shot (side, below, up, at an angle, etc.), not a constant pitch up. In addition, the rifle staying "pointed up" after the shot is, to quote Monty Python, "silly".
Sometimes I think people believe that if something is relatively easy, it must not be realistic.
*EDIT* Just to reiterate, I am not referring to full auto firing, but rather the recoil effects in the beta video after each shot has been fired.
I voted the first option because shooting was always way to easy in BIS games. It is ridiculous how one is able to hit targets even with a AK-47 at 800 Range by just correcting your aim as it always returns to the same point.
I'm a sportsmarksman and I can tell you that lots of people dont hit the card with a .22 sporting rifle at 50m, because its not that easy to hold a steady aim while standing...so why should it be possible with a 7.62x51 rifle?
I own a scoped 6.5x55mm Rifle and I'm not able to shoot it at 100m standing without needing to recenter my aim...takes me 2-3 seconds to do that.
There are people (soldiers) that even wont hit the target card at all with 5 shots from a .357 Revolver at 25m...why should it be so easy in OA?
There is a reason why not every soldiers wears marksmanbatches in reality...its simply because not everyone is good at long range shooting.
There are other roles in OA you can play...its not only sniper.
dunedain
Jul 3 2010, 08:20
New one is nice but seems a bit overdone to me.
Derbysieger
Jul 3 2010, 08:47
I don't like the new recoil how it is now. As mentioned before a bit correction after each shot is fine but the way it is now I have to pull my mouse off the table to correct it. Reduce it and don't let it stay completely in the sky. Even when i increase the sensibility of my mouse I have to pull it down half the mousepad to correct it. After two or three shots I run out of mousepad lol
My suggestion is to connect this with the difficulty if possible. That would be great. This way everyone can choose his own recoil.
I don't have OA yet but I hate the beta recoil just by looking at it.
you haven't even tried it but you started a topic discussing it? :confused:
it works much better than you'd think. wonder how many people actually have tried ti that have voted? each gun seems different and the whole thing feels 'MUCH closer' to being right.
The old one is too fast but good. The new one might be cool if it where turned down and only happens when you fired rapidly like if you fired before the muzzle had come down again. With semi auto fire you should be able to wait for the muzzle to come down automatically, I don't want to exercise my wrist too much while playing, only rapid fire should demand player intervention too keep muzzle at level.
STGN
The more I shoot, the more I'm starting to hate this recoil..
RobertHammer
Jul 3 2010, 09:49
The new recoil is pretty good ,but is must be little toned down + auto center back too .
IRL if you shoot a few shots from M4 recoil goes up and kick back ,but you center it again with your hands
The more I shoot, the more I'm starting to hate this recoil..Im right back from the real shooting range and tried the new recoil model. Since we wil never see a real feeling interpretation of how it feels to fire a gun I can only say: I love the new recoil model...it differenciates the different caliber much better. The fun in virtual shooting is back...thanks BIS. I take this reciol model in MP against any player without..it wont make a difference in outcome (because most I use is small bore Assault rifles) but feels much more real. Its spot on, no need to tone it down more, its already quite mild. after 10-15 minutes you learn how to center aim back by your hands (mouse) so its the players skill now and no autobot aimhelper to make the lonsome M16 ironsight rifle men take out targets at 400m by "kentucky windage".
i hope to see the gun going back to original level after each recoil rather than staying up.
GiorgyGR
Jul 3 2010, 11:16
Anyways,whatever will be decided here..DON'T make recoil "user-adjustable"
(via slider/diff.settings etc)
There are LOTS of people playing PvP here..and you can imagine the rest..
Anyways,whatever will be decided here..DON'T make recoil "user-adjustable"
(via slider/diff.settings etc)
There are LOTS of people playing PvP here..and you can imagine the rest..
It would not be to hard for BIS to allow the server to overwrite the users settings.
I just found a problem with the new recoil regarding the M14 weapon class that might be the issue why the new recoil is not well accepted...the M14 recoils before the shot is gone...thats wrong...recoil comes always after the shot is on its way. To hit a target with this quirked weapon behaviour is out of question and plain wrong.
Serclaes
Jul 3 2010, 11:54
I voted the first option because shooting was always way to easy in BIS games. It is ridiculous how one is able to hit targets even with a AK-47 at 800 Range by just correcting your aim as it always returns to the same point.
I'm a sportsmarksman and I can tell you that lots of people dont hit the card with a .22 sporting rifle at 50m, because its not that easy to hold a steady aim while standing...so why should it be possible with a 7.62x51 rifle?
I own a scoped 6.5x55mm Rifle and I'm not able to shoot it at 100m standing without needing to recenter my aim...takes me 2-3 seconds to do that.
There are people (soldiers) that even wont hit the target card at all with 5 shots from a .357 Revolver at 25m...why should it be so easy in OA?
There is a reason why not every soldiers wears marksmanbatches in reality...its simply because not everyone is good at long range shooting.
There are other roles in OA you can play...its not only sniper.
There is a lot more to precision shooting that coping with the recoil.
For one i am missing shivering and breath. Of course they should diminish with your stance and your rest.
If you have a good rest you can even diminish the recoil by anticipating it and holding your rifle firmly.
But i can fully agree, shooting is way too easy. I mean we don't have to bother about wrongly looking into the scope or the ironsights since the aiming point is always exactly where the eye should be. Even when in scopes the reticle is not tilted when leaning, which makes it easier to shoot with scopes than with ironsight or red dots. So let us at least take care of the recoil ourselves. A whole new dimension of skill for machine gunners.
The next step for me are somewhat 3d scopes. I don't even need a magnifying material like in the source engine for example, but a second black image with a whole in it, that adjusts according to sway would already do it. Right now the scopes are quite immune to recoil and sway.
The big question for me is on what the amount of recoil will base? Simply the calibre cfg or will perhaps the other things like handgrip design taken into account?
Wolfstriked
Jul 3 2010, 12:23
First off,I am really starting to like the new recoil.You just have to get use to it and it starts feeling better.
Helo,they have not changed the amount a weapon recoils at all.All they have done is remove the return to where you last pointed weapon at.
First off,I am really starting to like the new recoil.You just have to get use to it and it starts feeling better.
Helo,they have not changed the amount a weapon recoils at all.All they have done is remove the return to where you last pointed weapon at.a.k.a the "soft aimbot" behaviour some player, especially those with experience to real guns in larger calibers do not like. As I said...shooting at the virtual range feels better now...keep in mind...on the range you should always hit better as in combat.
Only quirk is the M14 CCO...zeroing seems a bit off..it shoots a bit to the left, but you can compensate if you know for it.
Wow I just seen this. I hate new recoil. Please, not this, not even toned down.
Wolfstriked
Jul 3 2010, 12:55
Some like some don't.Most likely BIS will make it option like screen shake.
Tony,keep at it you will probably start to like it better.;) Just anticipate and start pulling mouse down as you fire.
RobertHammer
Jul 3 2010, 12:58
Pls No option like screen shake or stupid slider :j:
Kick back is definitely realistic
GiorgyGR
Jul 3 2010, 13:12
It would not be to hard for BIS to allow the server to overwrite the users settings.
In case you mean :"It may could be adjusted by server settings"..i 'll
still tend to disagree,because in pure PvP servers they will adjust it
to "0" like ArmA1 and 2 was by default..so modes like C&H/AAS/CTF will become (again in O.A.) CoD-ish or BF-ish like always was.
I know..because i made career on this modes :/
So..forcing a recoil system will make firefights longer/more carefully planned..and the
"phenomenon" of the "crosshair-1mile-sniper" will seen much less often imho
VampyricTyrant
Jul 3 2010, 13:16
Having the chance to fire the M16A2, M4, FN-FAL, FN-MAG, M249, M72 & M2 serving in the Marines of my country I have to say I was surprised when I first played OA. The recoils are just like RL, after you fire each shot you have to aim again, the gun does not automatically return to your shoulder. Recolis that just return to their position after each shot (in terms of gameplay) fit more BF and Counter-Strike game, where the action has the most of it and the game needs just precise shots and fast action in seconds (if not miliseconds). Thats my views on the new recoil, I strongly suggest you keep it, it feels more real and makes you focus more. In ArmA2 it was just funny how you could empty a whole mag from the AK-107 and just control the weapon with toning your mouse a bit lower. What makes ArmA so special is the realism, if this is removed for making the game easier I think it looses its taste.
~Vampyric Tyrant
Surely it is still realistic if muzzle rise is automatically compensated for. The more muzzle rise a particular weapon exhibits the longer you wait between shots/bursts.
People who love having to manually drag their mouse down must have bigger mouse mats than me. I have a laser mouse so I have to lift my mouse quite high to re centre on my mat - this gets quite tedious after a while.
Having the chance to fire the M16A2, M4, FN-FAL, FN-MAG, M249, M72 & M2 serving in the Marines of my country I have to say I was surprised when I first played OA. The recoils are just like RL, after you fire each shot you have to aim again, the gun does not automatically return to your shoulder. Recolis that just return to their position after each shot (in terms of gameplay) fit more BF and Counter-Strike game, where the action has the most of it and the game needs just precise shots and fast action in seconds (if not miliseconds). Thats my views on the new recoil, I strongly suggest you keep it, it feels more real and makes you focus more. In ArmA2 it was just funny how you could empty a whole mag from the AK-107 and just control the weapon with toning your mouse a bit lower. What makes ArmA so special is the realism, if this is removed for making the game easier I think it looses its taste.
~Vampyric Tyrant
Strongly agree with this, however i would suggest a compromise and make the recoil not so strong unless you don´t wanna have two arma2 newbies trying hardly to hit each other at 100m ;) and not the best mouse toner wins that battle.
you haven't even tried it but you started a topic discussing it? :confused:
it works much better than you'd think. wonder how many people actually have tried ti that have voted? each gun seems different and the whole thing feels 'MUCH closer' to being right.
I know what I see in a video, and I don't like the idea of dragging my mouse halfway down the pad just to keep a level aim after each shot. Shooting quickly becomes a nuisance.
It certainly does not "feel right" at the moment. Though I personally do believe the concept is sound, the recoil is far too exaggerated at the moment.
There is another thing. If you have recoil like that (or even mild version of it) you cannot play against AI like that. Even if you have AI on lets say 0.50 skill and precision, once they lock you they sprey on spot which you cannot do already. AI should be equaly effected as well. I understand guys that want realism etc. but c'mon. Its not like Im training here for uber skillzor blackops assasin or something. Its still a game after all. I would like to keep it that way. Right now, how it is, its perfect imo. I dont find it too CoDish, there is nearly no recoil or anything in them games. However, if majority of community wants it (and there is a lot of people online that really like playing on easy or regular - which can mean they like to keep it more simple - and are not on this forums) would be nice to have an option to tone that down or disable (make it like before) even.
Further more... PvP. I can understand the problems with PvP but if you are so into ArmA PvP, organize matches on closed lobbys or play on servers with veteran settings. So I dont find "uber realistic recoil" solution or helper in that matter.
And last thing is, meny people cant play with fully playable frame rate (under 30-40). So it is hard enough to aim with current recoil. It would make it impossible with that recoil, the mouse is moving so slow then that AI on 0.4 would rape you.
Optiojn 2.
As many others have said I like the recoil effect but as others have said it needs to be toned down.
Below is your's truly firing an M1A (civilian semi-auto version of M14) as fast as I can pull the trigger emptying a 20 rd mag. Look at the muzzle rise - or lack there of. Admittedly I'm using a USCG muzzle brake vs the standard flash suppressor and it does reduce recoil but the point is even with the .223 caliber weaps in OA - which have FAR less power than 7.62X51 (.308) the recoil effect in the game is too exagerated.
Hc60e5o_Chc
Panzer Jager
Jul 3 2010, 15:53
the recoil effect in the game is too exagerated.
Not only that but some of the recoil is wrong. For example, in the game, the 7.62x51 M14 and FN FAL have far less recoil than 5.56x45 M4A1. It's rather absurd considering that not only do they actually fire cartridges that produce more recoil, but for balance purposes you'd think they'd have more recoil to offset their superior damage.
The .50 BMG M82A1 also has tons of recoil in-game, but in real life the muzzle brake and free-floating barrel make the recoil more like 7.62x51 battle rifles.
As a confirmed PVP player I like the new effect since it (quite rightly) reduces the effectiveness of full-auto fire at long-distance. For ArmA2 there was very little incentive to use burst or single-shot when there was no real accuracy penalty.
Arklight
Jul 3 2010, 16:57
Pls No option like screen shake or stupid slider :j:
Kick back is definitely realistic
Kick-back is realisitc, the "kick-up" modeled in the Beta is not.
SaBrE_UK
Jul 3 2010, 16:59
They really should add the ArmA1 kickback effect, unless they took it out for performance reasons or something... the rifles just don't feel right, not that I have any real rifle experience.
Hellfire257
Jul 3 2010, 19:21
Yeah its too much. I like it but I really do think its too much.
Wolfstriked
Jul 3 2010, 20:31
Kickback is back in with this beta.
Is anyone who doesn't like the new recoil actually trying to combat the rise while it is actually happening?It is very easy to keep a small circle from a large distance by moving the mouse just a small amount.If I spray without control the rise then the distance is huge and it feels wrong when I have to now move my mouse a large distance.It feels as though maybe the mouse is sped up when you press fire?Be nice to hear the devs opinions on all this.
Took a look at the beta files, seems the recoil config wasn't changed from official release. Since in default ArmA2/OA, re-zeroing happens automatically, the recoil config has no value to actually bring the muzzle back down(wards) - segment B0' from this thread:
http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=89724
Presumably, they'll add the muzzle re-zeroing config entry and everyone will be happy. I've been trying to change the config myself, but I'm having some issues convincing the game to use my recoil definition.
as a matter of interest for those who actually have experienced the new recoil - which rifles do you find it too much on?
Panzer Jager
Jul 3 2010, 23:13
which rifles do you find it too much on? Everything. Especially on full-auto, but it's too high for most especially the .22 calibre Rifles (5.56x45 and 5.45x39 weapons.)
It also seems to get much higher as frame rates drop, so while it may seem right when the game is at 60fps (desert map) it goes way up when you start putting lots of enemies in a visually demanding zone.
otreblA_SNAKE_[ITA]
Jul 3 2010, 23:23
The idea isn't bad but I think the recoil should be lighter. However I didn't try the new recoil + betapatch because I don't have OA
Wolfstriked
Jul 3 2010, 23:38
The weapons have same recoil as before.They did not add any more recoil they just removed the auto return to original spot.I agree it feels bad when fps drop.Between the stutter and the weapon jerk it feels more unsmooth.But I really like it at constant 60fps.
I keep waffling...
The main thing I don't like it that the recoil is like going up a ladder. I think it would be better if it just shot all arond the aiming point, instead of going horizontally. Right now with an SAW or any machine gun our response is like that of a girl firing an automatic weaopn for the very first time. ENds up shooting striahgt into the air. I'd like to think that since in the game we're somewhat "trained soldiers" it wouldn't be like that. Or maybe have ti scale with the "skill" level the individual has (or does it aready?)
there is nothing wrong with the new recoil model, just the configs. Go play with RH M4A1 and then go play with the BI M4A1, and tell me what is better.
http://tinypic.com/r/2yod6kl/6
recoil on basic tacistan sampler mission.. is this considered too much?? didn't feel tricky at all. especially when crouuched and prone. but each to their own. fps between 20-50fps.
of course, if people are using scopes to fire full auto then it would be hard to control , sort of as it should be with full auto.
Wolfstriked
Jul 4 2010, 03:28
there is nothing wrong with the new recoil model, just the configs. Go play with RH M4A1 and then go play with the BI M4A1, and tell me what is better.
Holy crap RH M4A1 rocks with new recoil and screen shake.It has massive kickback effect and coupled with new recoil it might be the best weapon I ever fired in a game.Looks very much like what I see from PR:BF2 mods.I love it and also the sounds are amazing!!That said the MK14 has way too much recoil IMO.Yes its a 7.62x39 rifle but its way overdone and especially now with the harder to handle recoil.1-1/2 to 2 times what the 5.45 rifles recoil at right now would be sweet...it feels like 3 times what the 5.45 recoils at though.
I must say again though,the new screen shake adds so much feel to the weapons but IMO is done wrong.I want a powerful weapon to feel just as powerful while prone as while standing.Some of the weapons look like they are gonna explode when standing.I say choose a screen shake setting for each caliber and leave that for all 3 positions....letting the recoil be the deciding factor in how hard it is to shoot the weapon.
CarlGustaffa
Jul 4 2010, 09:54
Maybe it should be a toggle just like the "camera shake" recoil. I don't enjoy the camera shaking recoil, so I disable it, which makes recoil like it was in ArmA 2 - and ArmA 2 recoil with this new viewkicking is awesome.
No. Camera shake is just a small immersion effect, it doesn't really prevent you from shooting good. This added recoil, kickback, climb is something that seriously would affect your ability to shoot good - something that most here seems to agree we are able to do far to well. In a PvP those who "wants to win" will win simply by turning it off. It would be like turning off ballistics because you want to shoot straight. For those who wants realism, it is no longer fair, so they're pretty much forced to turn off a feature they love just to make it fair. Not a good solution. There will be mods that can eliminate these effects, but they can be denied by servers who doesn't want this "cheat".
If you thought the DMR was bad in Arma2 -- imagine the Mk17 as a reiteration issued to all special forces soldiers. Often with a GL and thermal sight from the getgo.
End of the line is this: If you can't handle the new recoil of the Mk17 -- use a 5.56 weapon.
Indeed, the DMR became a highly problematic asset in Arma2, typically in all game modes that had it freely available. There should still be some climb and kickback on the 5.56, and maybe even smaller on the 9mm SMGs (eliminating caliber alone as the driving force?). For 7.62s the climb and kickback should be "significantly annoying" to make 5.56 weapons a preference for faster shooters.
There should be a random deviation from the main point of the first shot (side, below, up, at an angle, etc.), not a constant pitch up. In addition, the rifle staying "pointed up" after the shot is, to quote Monty Python, "silly".
Agree with the first part, sort of. Maybe a 50% chance of a "predetermined direction" (i.e. right and up), with a 50% chance of going wherever else? You will need to resight (especially true for higher calibers and even more so for standing up). Not sure how to answer the second part. If it stays there, people will have to resight. If it comes down automatically (and fast), it defies the purpose of having it there in the first place. It it comes down too slow, it will just appear annoying.
@Beagle: Fully agree with everything you say. Also, we're not at the range in Arma, we're at war, being shot at, adrenaline running, got the shakes, scared. I don't see why we need range conditions, we kill far too easily and there is no fire fight. How many bullets are wasted in real life before you get a kill?
I don't like the new recoil how it is now. As mentioned before a bit correction after each shot is fine but the way it is now I have to pull my mouse off the table to correct it. Reduce it and don't let it stay completely in the sky. Even when i increase the sensibility of my mouse I have to pull it down half the mousepad to correct it. After two or three shots I run out of mousepad lol
My suggestion is to connect this with the difficulty if possible. That would be great. This way everyone can choose his own recoil.
Ok, running out of mousepad space after three shots do sound like an issue. Shouldn't have to be like this, at least not consistently. Maybe a completely random direction would be best in this respect? But I kind of disagree with hooking it up to difficulty. It would be awful if you join a server with higher setting than you're used to and the weapon suddenly behaves wildly. Also see above.
i hope to see the gun going back to original level after each recoil rather than staying up.
Uhm, that kind of defeats the purpose of having to re-aim your shot.
Pls No option like screen shake or stupid slider :j:
Kick back is definitely realistic
Not having tested it, I can't really comment on how it feels like, or if it's realistic. But yeah, no option and no slider is a must! PvP would break down and everyone would feel "forced to turn it off" - I guess that's the cost of competitive game modes - if it can be exploited, it will be. Hell, it's even a problem in coops :(
I know what I see in a video, and I don't like the idea of dragging my mouse halfway down the pad just to keep a level aim after each shot. Shooting quickly becomes a nuisance.
The "mouse pad thingy" is why I suggest a more random pattern to where the gun goes. Shooting quickly is supposed to be more of a nuisance. The speeds we fire (and hit without reaim) with our assault weapons today are unacceptable and makes the game look like an action shooter. It kills the realism that most of us love, and for those who doesn't want it there are alternative games.
If you have recoil like that (or even mild version of it) you cannot play against AI like that. Even if you have AI on lets say 0.50 skill and precision, once they lock you they sprey on spot which you cannot do already. AI should be equaly effected as well.
And last thing is, meny people cant play with fully playable frame rate (under 30-40). So it is hard enough to aim with current recoil. It would make it impossible with that recoil, the mouse is moving so slow then that AI on 0.4 would rape you.
Agreed, AI should maybe react to accuracy setting better than now. And setSkill array (per individual) should have greater impact. I really don't want my AI sniper opponent to be something to ignore.
Maybe a solution is to make recoil framerate dependent? I agree at least for Arma2 that when framerate goes too low, I'm really not capable of fighting too well. I really don't know how to address this in a fashion that would really work. Anyone?
Not only that but some of the recoil is wrong.
The .50 BMG M82A1 also has tons of recoil in-game, but in real life the muzzle brake and free-floating barrel make the recoil more like 7.62x51 battle rifles.
I expect recoil values to be tweaked as we go along to address issues like that, I'm not too worried.
I've fired 7.62x51 battle rifle a lot of times, and even though it was pretty much uncontrollable standing up on full auto unless you really put some weight on in (dual wielded on full auto was particularly fun :D, but unfortunately I only got to watch this instead of doing it myself), it did not appear anything like this:
5ijM31lvkio
I don't think he was able to hit two targets at 1000m like that, the way we currently do in Arma.
@twisted: Awesome video, clearly showing that using lower caliber weapons is not to be feared at all.
@Wolfstriked: Sounds very promising!!
--- Phew, that was a mouthful :) ---
One thing, what about MGs and SAWs? Are they still "usable" when prone? MGs (M240 and the like) should climb out of control when standing, but when prone I think even todays "climb" is too much. I prefer the ACE bipod simulation, since the weapon can be used over greater distances as means of suppression. Todays M249 SAW is okay while prone, but should be more controllable in any stance. It is the gun of choice if you have it available. It is the main fire weapon of any infantry squad. I consider the rest of the fireteam "SAW protectors" :p Any thoughts on how light and medium machineguns behave with the updated model? I realize we now have packable M2s, but hopefully a weapon squad with medium machine guns aren't rendered completely useless.
Albeit I really like the new recoil simulation in the beta, I wotn use it anymore in MP until it has found its way into a official patch...right now youre at a real disadvantage against players not using it. The auto recenter aimbot gives too much of a unfair advantage in full auto mode right now.
Single fire is still very easy to do in CQC even with new recoil.
Going full auto is something you think twice with the new recoil simulation.
This corresponds now with what we where trained in boot camp (using G3 7.62x51 rifles)...never use full auto (nicknamed "Freundschaft" = "friendship" as full auto on trigger switch was labeled "F") at targets further away as 50 meters.
One thing, what about MGs and SAWs? Are they still "usable" when prone?
very much so. very easy to control when prone with the new recoils still. standing you have to fire in bursts more to control. but crouched and very much so prone there is control. BIS has done very well.
Derbysieger
Jul 4 2010, 11:19
When I played with the betapatch for the first time I didn't like the new recoil at all. But now after a playing with it for a while I'm starting to like it. I set up some targets in the editor and tried different weapons. Some feel really good as it is now. For example I love shooting with the M24 Desert or the M110. It just feels good. Even though the recoil of the M24 and the M107 should be little bit less when you're prone. Machineguns are fine when fired prone. I really like it that you can't fire them in full-auto when you're staying. The M249 is a dream fired prone.
The Mk16 is ok but I would like a little less recoil when fired prone. Same goes for the Mk17.
All in all I'm really starting to like the new recoil but it needs a bit tuning on some weapons.
Brainbug
Jul 4 2010, 12:47
In general, I prefer the new way because it is more real than the old one. However it definitely needs some tuning until it is good.
The direction of the deviation should not always be "up", but different depending on the weapon you use. Some move up, some down (often a matter where the gas exhaust is located for example), some slightly sideways. Some rifles don't move at a certain direction because they are quite well centered, but they still move with each shot.
What if the direction was more randomized, i.e. one shot moves the barrel up, the next one down and left, the third to the right etc., also the strengh of the movement should be slightly different with each shot.
And it should also go back a bit. Not all the way, but slightly. If you hold a rifle, the shot will kick against you muscle tension and you will have a spring effect, as a reflex you automatically move the rifle back into the position it had before. But only roughly, sometimes it should correct only half the movement, sometimes this reflex should overcompensate. And the direction should also slightly deviate, so that you don't move exactly to the point where you aimed when you had released the shot. Good to see in the .50 firing video that was posted above, the rifle goes up and the man moves it down in a countering reflex move further than necessary.
So maybe a good way would be to maintain the strength of the recoil as it is now, but implement a move back of about 50% to 150% (random amount varying with each shot). And then randomize the directions. I think that would come closer to reality. And it had the advantage that you can shoot full auto: You would loose a lot of accuracy, but the random directions and random correction amounts mean that you roughly stay in one direction and don't look up in the sky after half a mag (without user/mouse correction).
Of course this has to be adjusted to the rifles, a M107 would react slower (because it is so heavy) than a pistol (which would get a big but fast movement) and so on. And a rifle that in reality e.g. does kick up and left would get these directions much more often and more pronounced than the others. Maybe this can be achieved by giving them two functions: the one I described als base, and another weapon specific one without randomization that says "do the base function slower" or "add X+20 and Y+10 to each shot" or something like that.
The result on screen would look somehow like this (if no mouse movements by the user interfere of course):
http://s5.directupload.net/images/100704/bsb6n9ft.png (http://www.directupload.net)
Solid arrows mean movement caused by the shot, dotted arrows mean counter reflex movement. First shot is red, second blue and so on.
Any opinions on this idea?
If I could only take back my poll vote..
The new recoil completely kills SP. Before I'm even able to take down one AI, the others already exactly know my position and have me in their sights. Just great..
TangoRomeo
Jul 4 2010, 13:16
I like the new concept requiring more player input. Suggestion:
Full-Auto -> leave as is.
Semi-Auto -> tone down a tad.
What nemesis says.
It is not a concient choice to move your gun down. You do it automatically, especially a trained soldier. Though what still happens, is a slight offset due to the automatic and conditioned muscle reaction. So the weapon should not climb, but leave the crosshair at a small random offset tot he original point aimed at.
New one, getting 25-30% (especially at the AK's) toned down and optionally randomizing the direction that the weapon moves to when firing.
No problem at all as you can always tone down the A.I. precision in SP.
with this setting and new recoil you will have firefight with a more real duration and outcome becaue neither you nor A.I. can any longer snipe with ironsight assault rifles on the walk.
skillFriendly=1;
skillEnemy=1;
precisionFriendly=0.33;
precisionEnemy=0.33;
Have fun!
New one, getting 25-30% (especially at the AK's) toned down and optionally randomizing the direction that the weapon moves to when firing.
same
There is no other way to simulate the need to re-aim after each shot...
PS Giving the experience with ArmA1 recoils, I can tell that they should be toned down a bit more, because on slow systems or laggy areas it becomes even more difficult to rezero - they are so FPS dependant. So it should be some minimal random direction after each shot for 5.56 and a bit more for 7.62.
What nemesis says.
It is not a concient choice to move your gun down. You do it automatically, especially a trained soldier. Though what still happens, is a slight offset due to the automatic and conditioned muscle reaction. So the weapon should not climb, but leave the crosshair at a small random offset tot he original point aimed at.as a trained gamer you will accomodate easyly and bring the aim down yourself. And believe it or not...not any soldier is well trained...some have more time behind a desk than behind a gun.
Its funny how so much here suppose all soldier are soem kind of special forces...I've got news for you...95% are not.
Wolfstriked
Jul 4 2010, 13:39
@carlgustaffa,the 7.62 rifles in RH weapons though are way harder than the 5.45.Single shot from an M4A1 and it recoils said amount while single shot from an M14 looks like its 4 times that amount.Auto control is horrible and even single shot is annoying.Twice the amount would be fine...the caliber is not 4 times as powerful as the weak 5.45.;)Twice the muzzle rise at just 5 meters translates to a much high impact point already.
I prefer the old method, but I would make it a difficulty or gameplay option "aim recenters" on/off.
Panzer Jager
Jul 4 2010, 13:59
I don't think he was able to hit two targets at 1000m like that, the way we currently do in Arma.
Your video's shooter is holding the weapon by the magazine, which means muzzle climb will be higher.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2S7IqrVLHY&feature=related
These are two different people, which is a big part when it comes to recoil, but how you hold a weapon may effect muzzle climb. This is why grips provide more benefit than just their (tiny) boost in weight.
GossamerSolid
Jul 4 2010, 14:16
Everybody is complaining that the gun goes upwards and in real life that doesn't happen because you bring it back down yourself... well hello, but your argument is very flawed. YOU bring the gun down after every shot, and in the game, the mouse control is like your hand.
I personally love it as people won't be able to spam weapons like the DMR anymore, they'll actually have to aim. Those who don't like it, should just get better at games because the recoil is actually pretty low compared to most of the FPSes that have recoil.
There is no other way to simulate the need to re-aim after each shot...
PS Giving the experience with ArmA1 recoils, I can tell that they should be toned down a bit more, because on slow systems or laggy areas it becomes even more difficult to rezero - they are so FPS dependant. So it should be some minimal random direction after each shot for 5.56 and a bit more for 7.62.
There should be also another thing to consider, the weapons sway is practically non existent in OA, thats why in vanilla OA or ArmA 2 you don't need to reaim at all. So the final "recoil" should be a happy combination of random weapon direction plus a realistic weapon sway while standing so it takes 1-2-3 second to re-aim.
Here is a video I made in ArmA 1, AK103 (7.62), target at 100m, it takes some time to reaim plus you can't be too steady while standing. The weapon sway is from ACE 1 (I think is very realistic), recoil is mine.
5pXTB0iUBfY
Bellow the original ArmA 2 recoil, very few to do with realism...
BS8-uOO7AnU
Love the new recoil system. It's not overdone (as it might appear if you just watched the video in the opening post). Maybe recoil values might be tweaked here and there, but it's config work, not the system itself. However I agree with BrainBug's suggestions here (http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1670337&postcount=96) - the direction the weapon ends up in might be randomized a bit (I believe increased sway can accomplish it to some extent with the present mechanics already).
I find it odd having to pull the mouse back to keep the reticle on target. Seems a tad unnatural atm. Imho it should LOOK convincing and FEEL right.
I find it odd having to pull the mouse back to keep the reticle on target. Seems a tad unnatural atm. Imho it should LOOK convincing and FEEL right.You dotn have to do it all the time,,,just selcst single fire and go prone. No more precise full auto spray on the walk at 50 meters, CQC will be redefined in OA ;)
galzohar
Jul 4 2010, 18:20
It's kinda hard to tell which is better. Having to re-aim is good, but having the weapon just "stay up" is weird. In any way the recoil in OA is much much better than the vanilla recoil, and in fact needs to be toned up, especially for high-recoil weapons (7.62 and up).
arthur666
Jul 4 2010, 19:51
After putting 1000s of rounds thru many diferent semi-auto rifles in real life, the old recoil model. I understand wanting more realism, but remember, we're aiming with a mouse, not a weapon. After a few shots, my mouse has creeped to the edge of my desk. Like others have said, when firing a rifle, you automatically bring it back down after each shot. After I bring it back down in RL, then I re-aim. Sometimes I bring it down too far, sometimes not enough, and often to the right or left of where i was aiming. For sake of making it realistic, having it not pointing at the exact same spot after a shot, a little randomly, seems to be the best option. An unsupported bolt-action rifle could obviously be further off original aim after a shot than say, a 5.56mm SCAR or an MP5.
I find the 71900 recoil model almost unplayable. Just don't make it up-up-up and it will be fine. And give the AI the same handicap. I'll be happy
Wolfstriked
Jul 4 2010, 20:44
Repeat post deleted.....
TangoRomeo
Jul 4 2010, 20:50
but remember, we're aiming with a mouse, not a weapon.
yepp, it will always require a good amount of abstraction from the player .. unless using lightgun peripherals with some sort of physical feedback based on RL calculus. For me, it´s more along the lines of being either difficult or easy, than a matter of realistic and unrealistic. The old system was just too easy, especially on full auto, even more so than in remotely comparable games.
NoRailgunner
Jul 4 2010, 21:03
Wonder why BIS didnt use the results of ballistic pendulum calculation for each weapon in A2/OA and add them into weapon/gun config? Or is it too simple to use these results as base for the direction the weapon ends up? :confused:
ahmedjbh
Jul 4 2010, 21:43
After planning with the new beta, then going back to vanilla, I prefer the new recoil.
Wolfstriked
Jul 4 2010, 21:45
I think there is a wee bit of exaggerating going on here.Take a weapon and with crosshair showing and on full auto spray a whole clip.I move my mouse a max one inch spraying a whole clip.
Whats great about this recoil is that when you anticipate and move the mouse down right when you fire the actual mouse movement can vary so that sometimes you end up below initial,sometimes to left or right and sometimes above.Feels very real to me.
After the first impression wasn't so bad, I've come to rather hate it like it's in the new beta patch. It's quite tedious now, though maybe I should tweak the mousesensitivity a bit...
Subsequent shots in A2 were fun (and maybe too easy). In OA beta this isn't the case anymore. It's rather annoying. And what's worse is this: the AI manages to shot in much shorter intervals but still with good aim, than I am now able to.
Why not give us our choice of recoil models by making it selectable under Game Options, Difficulty?
Wolfstriked
Jul 4 2010, 23:14
Would maybe just the first shot not returning work?
Just suggesting for people that do not like it.I like it the way it is and the weapons just need some fine tuning for effect.
MacScottie
Jul 5 2010, 04:28
Absolutely the old way.
Managing recoil on a rifle IRL is vastly different from trying to manage it with a mouse. When shooting a gun IRL your muscle memory kicks in after each shot and you bring the sights back on line automatically. The old version already compensates for full auto fire by making your rounds go off target and having to adjust if you want to hit something, but has your character automatically adjust the rifle back to where it was when you started after you stop firing.
If anything make the sights return almost exactly to where they started but maybe a little off to simulate muscle memory, but in no way should recoil make the gun jump so far off target and just stay there.
On the other hand, I believe the new recoil system is to prolong the firefights. With OA, there is hardly any cover outside cities thus the acog becomes a sniper rifle.
The effects of recoil is less when between around 50-75 mtrs.
New recoil system forces you to move into a closer/better position so that you have a bigger target. Shooting at targets in the distance, especially moving ones (they do evading movesi zig zagging etc) are harder now.
Yoıu get used to it though..no more standing and shooting moving targets 300-400 mtrs away.
BUt yes I'd prefer a recoil somewhere in between.
With the beta- recoil its a single shot- only- shooter. Firing fast subsequent shots is absolute useless now while in ArmA2 twas fun.
So yes, tone it down a bit and add some randomness.
CarlGustaffa
Jul 5 2010, 08:14
Why not give us our choice of recoil models by making it selectable under Game Options, Difficulty?
Was already discussed why. I guess I wouldn't have a problem with recruit mode though. But the "playable" modes should be equal and for all, so that online we know what we will be getting.
Yeah, let the heavies in the back (M240s, M2s, vehicles) do the suppression while rest maneuver into "proper" distances to engage. Enemy will be suppressed and have a hard time delivering accurate return fires against our moving squads. When we get close it becomes a nerve wrecking battle on who can deliver the first shots in an accurate enough fashion to cause suppression effects. Lots of shooting. Lots of misses. Hello firefight!!! :D Well, so I hope anyways... Remember, for fire to be effective it is not always the idea of hitting your enemy, but get rounds downrange so he won't be able to fight back properly.
the "playable" modes should be equal and for all
Exactlly. Any other option would be called cheating. :) Different recoil on different difficulty settings i have no problems with.
MadMike[Brig2010]
Jul 5 2010, 08:19
I would prefer the method of adding a recoil-slider just as it is implemented for the head-shaking. So everyone could use the settings he prefer.
Like many I like the new system but find the upwards recoil a tad overdone (-25%).
I really hope that this new version isn't limited to OA, i.e. A2 still gets some recoil love.
@MadMike: given that this feature significantly degrades a crucial element of the game (shooting), I have to side with Alex72's point of view, i.e. optional but linked into difficulty settings. In fact in MP games, rather like grass, I think the server should define this.
IronTrooper
Jul 5 2010, 09:36
I like the new recoil because it makes you readjust the aiming but I won't mind if a different solution is used, just don't let it keep returning to the same position.
WhoCares
Jul 5 2010, 12:04
While I don't consider myself a seasoned shooter, well, maybe seasoned but not shooting that much, I still wonder what they thaught us ~15 years ago in my military service with the Bundeswehr.
Why oh why did they make us rest the G3 on a sandback shooting targets at 200m, shot by shot, re-aiming again and again. Shouldn't they just have told us to hold the rifle, aim, close the eyes, shoot - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 - shot - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 - shot... Muscle memory should have gotten us back right on target in between :confused:
Seriously, I never really tried, but I'd not expect the third shot to hit a 50x50cm target at that distance while resting on a sandback - not even thinking about freely holding the rifle...
So I like the new system, even though I must admit that I yesterday wasted a 200 round belt shooting the new thermal sight MG (M249, iirc) in 3-round burst while engaging some Opfor ~600m away, just killing one. For shooting it prone the spray was probably a bit excessive, but considering the range it might be okay again.
Should move the combat a little closer again and it will be nice to look again in opponents faces. Even though one wonders what people complain about - the great shots the people here consider themselve shouldn't the first shot have killed the enemy already?! :p Ah, okay, must have been the ping or some desync :D
While I don't consider myself a seasoned shooter, well, maybe seasoned but not shooting that much, I still wonder what they thaught us ~15 years ago in my military service with the Bundeswehr.
Why oh why did they make us rest the G3 on a sandback shooting targets at 200m, shot by shot, re-aiming again and again. Shouldn't they just have told us to hold the rifle, aim, close the eyes, shoot - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 - shot - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 - shot... Muscle memory should have gotten us back right on target in between :confused:
Seriously, I never really tried, but I'd not expect the third shot to hit a 50x50cm target at that distance while resting on a sandback - not even thinking about freely holding the rifle...
So I like the new system, even though I must admit that I yesterday wasted a 200 round belt shooting the new thermal sight MG (M249, iirc) in 3-round burst while engaging some Opfor ~600m away, just killing one. For shooting it prone the spray was probably a bit excessive, but considering the range it might be okay again.
Should move the combat a little closer again and it will be nice to look again in opponents faces. Even though one wonders what people complain about - the great shots the people here consider themselve shouldn't the first shot have killed the enemy already?! :p Ah, okay, must have been the ping or some desync :D
lol +1. very true and very funny to read.
Panzer Jager
Jul 5 2010, 13:21
Ah, okay, must have been the ping or some desync
I find that, in unmodified ArmA2/OA, scoped 5.56 or 5.45 rifles are incapable of killing targets in single body shots beyond 200m - at that range, through the scope you can still see the blood, and they arn't dieing. 7.62 rifles can go further, but even then their 1-shot range is limited compared to .50 BMG (and amazingly 9x39 even though it's a bitch to aim.)
In regards to 5.56x45, it's actually pretty realistic for any weapons firing M855 ball, because it stops fragmenting at around 150m, and is noted for very poor stopping power in real life beyond those ranges. Mk262 ball, which *should* be used by the Mk12 SPR (but isn't in the game) has a MUCH longer fragmentation range.
Why not give us our choice of recoil models by making it selectable under Game Options, Difficulty?
Seconded; also agree with the post about the AI shooting much more frequently and more accurately.
MavericK96
Jul 5 2010, 19:45
I would prefer the method of adding a recoil-slider just as it is implemented for the head-shaking. So everyone could use the settings he prefer.
Maybe only in SP; otherwise it's way too big of a factor regarding fairness in an MP environment.
another thing that bugs me is that the current recoil seems to be the same, regardless if you're prone, kneeling or standing.
If you can't shoot fast subsequents shots beeing prone with a vintorez, then you know that something isn't right... it's ridiculous.
Derbysieger
Jul 6 2010, 00:23
Actually the recoil isn't always the same. You will see it especially when using machineguns or other big calibers such as M107. Firing machineguns while staying is now absolutely pointless (especially over long distances).
Actually the recoil isn't always the same. You will see it especially when using machineguns or other big calibers such as M107. Firing machineguns while standing is now absolutely pointless (especially over long distances).
:yay:
vini_lessa
Jul 6 2010, 01:38
I prefer a middle ground between the two.
I like the Vanilla OA Recoil. I agree with what Celery said and what NemeSiS said aswell.
Derbysieger
Jul 6 2010, 01:44
As for the vintorez: I always do (fast) single shots with it. And the recoil is so low when you're prone that you can reaim in less than one second within its effective range. Just tested it in the editor vs some moving KSK soldiers at a range between 300 and 400 metres
No Use For A Name
Jul 6 2010, 03:07
I was trying this out tonight and found it to be too extreme. I like the new mechanics because it definitely feels more realistic; but it should be toned down IMO since it's impossible to model the actual force of the recoil on someone playing a computer game. As it stands now it's damn near impossible to make quick follow-up shots; because after 2 or 3 rounds your barrel is 4-6 inches higher, when IRL a person should be able to bring it down closer to the target between each shot (unless they're on full auto and just spraying :) )When I shoot my AR-15 rapid-fire from my shoulder it definitely picks up but naturally my body brings it back towards the target (obviously not perfectly ON the target). I think something in between would be a LOT better
CarlGustaffa
Jul 6 2010, 06:05
Played through the campaign and some of the scenarios with beta and found no problems using these values. The constant dragging of mouse especially on 7.62 based weapons was a bit annoying, but not something I don't think people can't live with. Maybe I (as others here) will be more annoyed the more I play, I don't know.
@No Use For A Name: How many are shooting back when you are at the range? I think one of the things this recoil/climb system does well is simulate the conditions under stress.
I still find the sway too little, nonexistent even. Doing a well aimed shot standing up does not require any "concentration" (hold breath) at all. Hold breath function now seem to be limited to reducing aiming shake when you're hurt.
I love the new non-zeroing kick but I think it should be toned down by about 1/3 for all stances.
It really feels more powerful and realistic. (I have fired real rifles but not alot)
arthur666
Jul 6 2010, 16:44
I was trying this out tonight and found it to be too extreme. I like the new mechanics because it definitely feels more realistic; but it should be toned down IMO since it's impossible to model the actual force of the recoil on someone playing a computer game. As it stands now it's damn near impossible to make quick follow-up shots; because after 2 or 3 rounds your barrel is 4-6 inches higher, when IRL a person should be able to bring it down closer to the target between each shot (unless they're on full auto and just spraying :) )When I shoot my AR-15 rapid-fire from my shoulder it definitely picks up but naturally my body brings it back towards the target (obviously not perfectly ON the target). I think something in between would be a LOT better
Fully agree. Fired my SKS "sporter" w/30rnd AK mag, and came to the same conclusion. After a single shot, I automatically let the muzzle fall back down to near on target, but when rapid firing, then the muzzle climbs. I think a good compromise could be reached with only having the muzzle climb when you don't allow time for it to come back down.
Wolfstriked
Jul 6 2010, 18:29
BIS....any word on what you are thinking of trying with the recoil....or is the new recoil what we get?I do not mind since tweaks to amount each weapon recoils can make this work very well.
The amount of time to re-aim is pretty close to what I experience with my own M4gery when standing or kneeling. Firing from a rest or a bipod, the "old" recoil was more realistic.
metalcraze
Jul 6 2010, 22:00
More "realism" yay
But tone it down. Aiming at who knows where after 2-3 shots considering that fights go at 150m+ distances is a big deal.
Also this new recoil should affect the prone position the least of all
Wolfstriked
Jul 6 2010, 22:14
Would removing the weapon lag you get when you move weapon up and down work?When you fire standing and move mouse down to compensate the weapon lags behind so it takes more mouse movement.Also its causing a weird effect where the front post is dropping down while rear posts rise.
The weapon lag could be removed only when firing.
Would removing the weapon lag you get when you move weapon up and down work?When you fire standing and move mouse down to compensate the weapon lags behind so it takes more mouse movement.Also its causing a weird effect where the front post is dropping down while rear posts rise.
The weapon lag could be removed only when firing.
If you set up your settings in a better way there shouldnt be much, if any, mouselag at all. ;)
(No vsync, 'render frames ahead/flip queue size' as low as possible, mouse smoothing settings set up properly for your PC/mouse combination, stuff like that)
Wolfstriked
Jul 7 2010, 00:57
I don't mean mouse lag.What I mean is the weapon dexterity setting.With crosshair showing raise and lower weapon rapidly and you will see it lags behind the actual mouse movement.It doesn't do this in side to side movement.
Has no one shot a rifle before? You get the recoil IRL, but with the muscle memory it won't do that ridiculous climbing thing it does there.
Maybe tone it down to the point where it comes back down and is slightly off center. Kinda like how the old version is...
I want MilSim!! Not Battlefield: Bad Company 2.5, please don't take the run and gun balance system and put it in Arma...
For those that say its realistic, and I am sure 99% of you have not shot a gun before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZoH0frWgJg
When he adjusts his rifle, thats automatic, he does not have to actually think to do it, its his muscle memory. He just needs to adjust slightly to put the rounds exactly where he wants them. Watch any soldier firing weapons on Youtube, its all the same, after firing the gun, it automatically goes right back to its position and the soldier barely has to adjust a hair to put what hes firing on back in his crosshairs and he squeezes another round down range.
Please don't put this horrible run and gun balance system in a tactical game like Arma... it ruins it completely.
Run and gun? Wth r u talkin bout?
btw.you get used to the new recoil, the more I play the more I like it, you´ve gotta adapt your playing- style (OA in its current itteration is more of a sniper experience (due to the terrain and single shot- only restrictions)).
Only thing that really bothers me is seeing AI standing, firing off in full auto and hitting, knowing oneself ´ll never b able to show the same performance.
Fully agree. Fired my SKS "sporter" w/30rnd AK mag, and came to the same conclusion. After a single shot, I automatically let the muzzle fall back down to near on target, but when rapid firing, then the muzzle climbs. I think a good compromise could be reached with only having the muzzle climb when you don't allow time for it to come back down.
This, it should not climb unless you are firing too fast.
arthur666
Jul 7 2010, 10:00
This, it should not climb unless you are firing too fast.
You are correct. When I say "rapid firing", I mean that I am pulling the trigger too fast.
Has no one shot a rifle before? You get the recoil IRL, but with the muscle memory it won't do that ridiculous climbing thing it does there.
now that you ask, of course people have. including me. recently mostly with a pissy little .22 rifle due to low ammo costs. and muscle memory does not magically reaim the rifle for me ever. even with such a low recoil rifle as the .22.
i have to reaim after each shot. using my eyes as much as my arms. over and over and over. that's where the skill comes in, especially making shots at over 100m.
the one thing muscle memory does is to help keep my rifle pointed in the general direction i am thinking of shooting but the rest is up to me. every time.
anyway... i like this recoil cause it takes a tiny bit more skill now for me to take out a bunch of opfor and going full-auto is only an option when they are bloody close. which is the way it should be.
now that you ask, of course people have. including me. recently mostly with a pissy little .22 rifle due to low ammo costs. and muscle memory does not magically reaim the rifle for me ever. even with such a low recoil rifle as the .22.
i have to reaim after each shot. using my eyes as much as my arms. over and over and over. that's where the skill comes in, especially making shots at over 100m.
the one thing muscle memory does is to help keep my rifle pointed in the general direction i am thinking of shooting but the rest is up to me. every time.
anyway... i like this recoil cause it takes a tiny bit more skill now for me to take out a bunch of opfor and going full-auto is only an option when they are bloody close. which is the way it should be.
ROFLMFAO
no.
That guy
Jul 7 2010, 10:33
this is a sim game. not a game game. you have to do things for your self. i like the concept of having to manually compensate for recoil, but the only way for the game to simulate recoil is with muzzle climb. and in most cases, the muzzle climb is very exaggerated. I went for option 2. more manual readjustment is good, but there needs to be more weapon sway when standing. its just way to easy to hit stuff when standing
I have got a whole laundry list of changes and tweeks that i would like to see in infantry combat... but thats for another time
the best simulated shooting experience I have had was with Ace 1. i would just get a weapon and blaze away randomly in the editor :D
arthur666
Jul 7 2010, 11:36
I would liken having to continously lower your rifle with the mouse after each shot to having to push the "W" key each time you take a step, rather than just hold it down to walk.
I would liken having to continously lower your rifle with the mouse after each shot to having to push the "W" key each time you take a step, rather than just hold it down to walk.
This.
OK. After feedback the muzzle climb with recoil is reduced in OA 71931.
We will be looking for ways how to further reduce the effect for prone / bipod supported stances.
OK. After feedback the muzzle climb with recoil is reduced in OA 71931.
We will be looking for ways how to further reduce the effect for prone / bipod supported stances.
Great news, thanks for informing us!
No Use For A Name
Jul 7 2010, 13:03
OK. After feedback the muzzle climb with recoil is reduced in OA 71931.
We will be looking for ways how to further reduce the effect for prone / bipod supported stances.
Thanks Suma!
Infam0us
Jul 7 2010, 15:02
Praise Allah, just bee testing it in the new beta and can't believe it!
WhoCares
Jul 7 2010, 16:16
ROFLMFAO
no.
Good argumentation.
And it also explains why they teach you whenever possible to rest your weapon on something like sandbacks and the like (at least in the Bundeswehr).:j:
Just think of it, every millimeter the tip of your rifle strays away is already 10cm @100m, 20cm @200m, a.s.o. (simplifying the length of the barrel to 1m). And 1mm is nothing even while just normally aiming, not mentioning when you release a shot...
I revoke my statement from last Weekend.
After playing a whille with the new recoil, and further shooting on the real range with eyes on aim behaviur i coem to follwing conclusion.
The effect is good per se, but MUST be toned down a lot for .223 rifles and Ak74s. the .308 and up seem bearable bit is also a bit too much.
So I say yes to the new recoil, but please tone the effect down significantly.
Good argumentation.
And it also explains why they teach you whenever possible to rest your weapon on something like sandbacks and the like (at least in the Bundeswehr).:j:
Just think of it, every millimeter the tip of your rifle strays away is already 10cm @100m, 20cm @200m, a.s.o. (simplifying the length of the barrel to 1m). And 1mm is nothing even while just normally aiming, not mentioning when you release a shot...
Of course resting your weapon will have benefits to shooting, but this is not the case for Arma, we can't exactly rest our weapons on anything(not yet anyways ;))
Between all the rifles I have shot, I have NEVER had recoil that looked like that, I have NEVER had to readjust my aim on a .22 shoulder fired from a standing position as dramatically as he explained, which is why I laughed so hard. It barely recoils, and he is trying to use it for an example in stead of using a real rifle or an assault rifle, not a pea shooter.
At no point have I ever had a rifle that the tip of barrel went 2cm+(For the americans thats not even an inch) up off its mark after squeezing a round as I am TRYING to shoot to kill like it shows in that video from an unrested position. The recoil is 100% unrealistic in that video and the people who said it was realistic have just played to much COD and BF run and gun games.
Give us MilSim if I wanted to sprint around a map no bigger than an airport terminal, and have guns jump all over the place when fired in attempt to get people to slow down, i'll buy MW2. They claim to be realistic right?
These people said it best:
I haven't tried the new beta yet but from video.....How I think it should work.First off it should offset by a tiny amount and not just upwards.We are asking for the after effect of recoil which is the body trying to force weapon back down to starting postion(centered on target).This effect isnt perfect in real life and instead alot of times the shooter overcompensates and aimpoint drops down below,sometimes not down far enough and sometimes its offset to either side.
What is happening in beta is after each shot the weapon stays at highest point the recoil sent it too.We do not want this....instead we want the weapon to drop back down BUT not to exact point it was before.If engine does not allow aimpoint to be set below/above/left or right of initial point than at least give us a weapon that goes up and only comes down 3/4 the distance that initial recoil caused.
Also the screen shake is awesome but needs to be looked at again.Take a PKM and fire it standing/crouching and prone.Prone has a beautiful screen shake effect and also the weapon animation is sweet.Leave this prone screen shake setting for all 3 positions and let the recoil be the factor in choosing which position is optimal.Right now with recoil and the EXCESSIVE screen shake while standing,shooting a PKM becomes way too hard.
Realism-wise the new recoil makes no sense because nobody makes it an effort to bring the sights down after firing a weapon. The beta patch simulates a strange kind of muscle stiffness where a soldier keeps aiming where the gun raised its barrel, and that just doesn't happen.
I don't have OA yet but I hate the beta recoil just by looking at it.
Just out of curiosity why are so many people voting for option 2? And before you say "it's more realistic" please take into account:
1. By all accounts modern assault rifles recoil backwards not upwards
2. A little thing called gravity pulls the gun down automatically.
I would much rather as people have already suggested that the recoil automatically re-centres the gun, but with a slight randomised offset - so you have to fine tune the aim.
Absolutely it is very good for player skill to play a part in marksmanship. It is not helpful to say "Oh mouse control is not perfect so everyone must be a special forces marksman automatically instead." The original recoil method is rather undefendable even from the "muscle memory" camp. Aim a laser dot at the bulls eye and close your eyes. Fire 30 shots... will your muscle memory put the laser dot exactly on the bullseye after each shot? No. Will you be aiming at the ceiling because you didn't attempt any ballpark recentering? No.
Picture an experiment such that the rifle had a target card that was a photographic plate. Attached to the rifle is a laser light source that "draws" on the target card. Point A is the starting position when firing. Point B is the ending position after the recoil is absorbed. The path between A and B drawn on the card will be a sort of spike shape as a result of the recoil impulse. It might be up, to the right, probably not down. This might be a rather large spike. However the spike ends in Point B. Point B will be close to but not the same as Point A, easily randomly selected within a small circle.
Subsequent shots will walk Points B randomly around Points A. You might get a statistical "random walk" effect where the B's start to drift one direction or the other but it will be minimal compared to the size and scale of the recoil spikes and easily compensated by mouse and minimal mouse pad. In the perfect statistical case the walk would not go anywhere because the Point A to Point B vectors should cancel out over time.
This should work reasonably well for well-spaced semi-automatic shots. Fully automatic fire is more complex because full recovery is not achieved by the time the next recoil impulse happens. However the same system can achieve "muzzle push" effects if Point A is evaluated at the moment of firing. Point A affects the statistical expected center of Point B. If Point A tends to "walk" in one direction because the recoil spike has not fully recovered and the recoil spike has a directional bias built in.
Rexxenexx
Jul 7 2010, 21:57
There should be a setting (same place as blood setting etc) for "Recoil"= Auto(old style) or Realistic. Making it a user setting/preference. That way it doesn't dissuade new users or casual gamers. I prefer realistic when I play locally but when I play online and things start to studder it turns into a timingfest, in that case I like it to be old style. So the option should be client side I believe as to not complicate server settings or alienate new/other users.
no go for client side options, especially if one plays competitive PvP.
Should be the same for everyone. I have faith that the recoil values have been tweaked further as per Suma reply in this very thread
Delta 51
Jul 8 2010, 00:40
I like this new one where it doesn't resettle, however a compromise for the MG's when in prone needs to be set.
CarlGustaffa
Jul 8 2010, 01:23
Will have to test the new values before I can say much more, but for the 7.62 I think it was pretty much spot on from what I remember from my own (older) 7.62 battle rifle. 3 round bursts with the unscoped M240 isn't too bad either in prone, and getting rounds on target with the M249 isn't hard at all with some practice.
MavericK96
Jul 8 2010, 04:10
After testing this some more, I stand by my vote which is that the new recoil is good, but it definitely needs to be toned down. You can barely even put a 2-3 round burst on target the way it is, which doesn't seem very realistic.
Between all the rifles I have shot, I have NEVER had recoil that looked like that, I have NEVER had to readjust my aim on a .22 shoulder fired from a standing position as dramatically as he explained, which is why I laughed so hard. It barely recoils, and he is trying to use it for an example in stead of using a real rifle or an assault rifle, not a pea shooter.
At no point have I ever had a rifle that the tip of barrel went 2cm+(For the americans thats not even an inch) up off its mark after squeezing a round as
You ever shot AK47? There is nothing like you describe.
tacticalnuggets
Jul 8 2010, 07:10
I like the new one, it adds more skill to aiming. But both are automaticaly better than the original arma 2. I cannot stress enough that aiming is a skill that is learned, not done automaticaly.
That guy
Jul 8 2010, 10:02
OK. After feedback the muzzle climb with recoil is reduced in OA 71931.
We will be looking for ways how to further reduce the effect for prone / bipod supported stances.
excellent news BIS. just a couple of things on my mind:
1 AI. from what some people have said the ai dont have any trouble reacquiring targets that people do. there must be some way to remedy this?
2 prone fireing/bipod and cirtain weapons. i am thinking about MGs specifically. most GPMGs like the 240 are very front heavy, and as a result there is virtually no muzzle climb when fired prone (and as a result makes firing them in anything but a supported position extremely hard/tiring). the LMGs are the same to an extent (weight and balance).
also with this new addition of muzzle climb, you can now simulate one of the huge benefits of the AK107, in that it has virtually no muzzle climb due to its internal balancing/recoil cancellation mechanisms+ muzzle break. i dearly hope that you guys dont forget about the AK107!
(its a weapon i would dearly like to shoot in real life!)
I just tried it and I like it way better than default. The mouse dragging down effect is being exaggerate. I'd have to fire 10+ 30rnd magazines to require my mouse to be moved down from the center to the bottom edge of my mouse pad. Ideally I wouldn't have to but it is absolutely not a problem "running out of mouse pad"
arthur666
Jul 8 2010, 22:17
71952 is better, but I still believe the best option would be having the aimpoint move randomly around the original point, rather than just up. This be more realistic than the current "up-up-up" beta model, but still more challenging than the original "returns to the exact same spot" recoil model. Either that, or make it optional, server-side controlled.
Ditch the new recoil and just add slower settle on big caliber weapons! :681:
MavericK96
Jul 9 2010, 00:07
Yeah, I'm starting to think that it should return to center if you fire off one shot and then wait for a short while. If you fire rapidly, it should start to rise.
The problem with the way it is now is that firing one shot moves the cursor way off target (if you are shooting at targets far away, for example, the effect is really severe). I feel like I am constantly dragging my mouse down just for controlled single-shot fire.
OK. After feedback the muzzle climb with recoil is reduced in OA 71931.
We will be looking for ways how to further reduce the effect for prone / bipod supported stances.
tried the new recoil and well it's a huge tone down from previous. perhaps add some much needed weapon sway (aimprecision) based on stance as no weapon stays still unless mechanically supported at rest.
@Rhamen. point made was about the effect of distance not the mouse fart recoil of the .22. At 100m (not far for other rifles but for the .22 it starts to be) even such a low kick, requires some correction after each shot to achieve any kind of reasonable grouping at that range. the scope makes this even more noticeable.
@that guy. a while back there was a few guys like generalbarron and other smart fellows who experiemented with recoil and aimprecision. both had an affect on the AI and the player with excessive values screwing up AI chances of hitting anything. not sure if it's the same in arma2 but not sure why it wouldn't be.
Iroquois Pliskin
Jul 9 2010, 03:36
The new one, but tone it down a bit
Armed Assault 1 had a proper recoil, until a patch changed it. (AFAIR) M16 w/ ACOG instantly became the Railgun - sights returned back to spot right before the shot, you could place 3 out of 3 rounds in a 1.7m human 400m out in less than 2 seconds.
Armed Assault 1 had a proper recoil, until a patch changed it. (AFAIR) M16 w/ ACOG instantly became the Railgun - sights returned back to spot right before the shot, you could place 3 out of 3 rounds in a 1.7m human 400m out in less than 2 seconds.
Q1184 made an excellent recoil adjustment addon for ArmA after the v1.07 beta changed the recoils to those ridiculously accurate ones. Wish he made one for Arma 2...
Tried the last patch, still more sway is needed while standing and the muzzle climbing can be tuned down even more...
Please check this video in full screen HD to see how it can be more realistic:
5pXTB0iUBfY
PS For the recoil, first it should kick back fast, like 40 miliseconds, then rezero slowly 130 miliseconds or something.
Q1184 made an excellent recoil adjustment addon for ArmA after the v1.07 beta changed the recoils to those ridiculously accurate ones. Wish he made one for Arma 2...
+1. although isn't he part of ace2 team as far as i remember. then his awesome recoils will be there for oa?
Well, it's a bit much to use ACE2 just for the recoils. :p
I might look into making one myself, but from what I read earlier, some aspects are hardcoded...
-every weapon must have a different recoil & different weapon sway. that would be cool
RobertHammer
Jul 9 2010, 10:05
-every weapon must have a different recoil & different weapon sway. that would be cool
Every gun have own recoil and sway since ArmA1 - now these betas returned kick back only
AntalopeAUT
Jul 9 2010, 10:44
Dear sirs...
For my taste ( and I never shot a real gun, only lightweight air-sports guns) the recoil could be heftier, although the "non-returning" from triggering-point to "kick-back point" confuses slightly because any gunner will try to compensate for the kick of his gun ?
Still this is some ! real hot shit ! and I love to see it getting more refined day by day from the Devs and The Modders...
Much love and kind regards !
Keep up that damn fine working !
Thread closed to prevent confusion now the new beta has changed the recoil. Feel free to start a new poll if you still see it as helpful.
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