View Full Version : Slow performance near trees and bushes is back?
Anyone else got the Problem with the latest beta patches, that performance gets really down when you look at a bunch of trees (the non-pine/conifer kind of Trees) ???
And furthermore it re-introduced some kind of mouse-lag, while looking around and some of those trees pass your view
Anyway i opened a ticket about it to see if i'm not the only one.
http://dev-heaven.net/issues/11456
Michael Withstand
Jun 25 2010, 03:09
I noticed noticeable stutter too in benchmark.
randir14
Jun 25 2010, 08:01
Slow performance around those trees was never fixed.
CarlGustaffa
Jun 25 2010, 08:12
Well there were one or a few betas a good while back that significantly worsened the problem; nearly everyone would get severe fps drops by using scopes against the "tree pole" (?) and grass, as well as the old tree leaves problem.
But, I think something has happened to it, also quite a while back. I'm now able to run normal textures for the most of the time, but the normal textures looks a lot worse now than they used to when they were completely useless for me.
But I can't tell anything myself, I haven't really done Chernarus in a while.
I get the same issues since the last few beta's (ARMA2_Build_71749, ARMA2_Build_71726 and one or two before). More noticable mouselag especially around trees and bushes. The red trees are absolute killers again.
Win xp sp2. Q9650 @<hidden> 3 GHz. 3 gb low latency ram.
I am using some @<hidden> mods, the one that forces ARMA2 not to use the highest LOD version of trees / bushes. Maybe the latest beta's somehow don't work with the @<hidden> tweaks anymore?
Fireball
Jun 25 2010, 09:41
See also my post here:
http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1657358&postcount=56
Could you verify this with sbsmac's ArmAFPSAnalyzer?
Hmm, the 'inlandFlight' benchmark was meant to flush out issues with trees but if someone (Mr G-c?) can post to an example of a particularly problematic section of forest I'll happily add another benchmark.
Slow performance around those trees was never fixed.
Well, that is right, however for me only a few ones were killers like the famous "red trees". And furthermore there was no mouse-lag or "look-around-lag" when looking around near trees for me. And i can perfectly replicate it when i don't use beta-patches that its better then.
Hmm, the 'inlandFlight' benchmark was meant to flush out issues with trees but if someone (Mr G-c?) can post to an example of a particularly problematic section of forest I'll happily add another benchmark.
Well i notice it in basically every mission i play on chernarus.
But really Killer is now suddenly that small wood, when you start sceanrio-mission Nr. 2 (where you raid that chedaki town) - this mission is perfectly playable for me without beta..... :eek:
randir14
Jun 26 2010, 08:39
After installing the new 1.07 patch I tested the trees and my fps would drop to the 20's. Turning off anti aliasing would bring it to the high 30's.
I also noticed that looking through sniper scopes causes huge performance drops to the low 20's but I don't know if that's vegetation-related. It never happened to me with older patches though.
LeadCommando65
Jun 27 2010, 10:48
Someone should identify the exact model name for those trees/bushes/etc. which are causing the performance drop (would have done this already, but I don't know how). Only with this information the developers will be able to do a proper overlook on those issues. This way the chance would be much higher to see it fixed.
InFireBaptize
Jun 28 2010, 02:07
Same here, using night vision goggles, scope near trees and houses in freedom fighters mission introduces stutter, sometimes the game pauses for split of second then it continues.
No mods, settings on default, PP on low, AA disabled, VD 2016, exThreads=7
First step is to get to something isolated and reproducible.
Atm this issue is described only in general way, and it is not even possible to tell people saying they also see "horrible stutter caused by any non-pine tree" are really reporting the same bug.
Things that can help to track this problem down:
* exact location where it is observed
* what version was ok there (if possible, please verify it really still is ok there in that version) and what version is first to break it
Please note that despite you may feel this is an obvious problem that everyone should see instantly, it is not necessarily the case.
* what version was ok there (if possible, please verify it really still is ok there in that version) and what version is first to break it
In my case the problem was not there with the 71548 beta over 1.05, but exists in the 1.07 patch. Not tried the betas in-between and I cannot go back after installing 1.07.
Reproduction is trivial in my case, as simply loading Utes in the editor and starting to run circles anywhere causes permanent stutter after completing a few rounds. Mouse input is also lagging. I cannot confirm that it is caused by the orange trees, as the framerate drop occurs when just looking out to the sea, although heavily forested areas with those trees definitely worsen the problem.
Running xp 64-bit, 6GB ram, nvidia 295, i7 920.
niverin
Jun 29 2010, 08:04
Screens with FPS:
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/1875/arma22010062909541612.th.jpg (http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/1875/arma22010062909541612.jpg) http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/9485/arma22010062909540738.th.jpg (http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/9485/arma22010062909540738.jpg) http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/7153/arma22010062909535235.th.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/7153/arma22010062909535235.jpg)
Graphic settings:
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/5287/arma22010062909520948.th.jpg (http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/5287/arma22010062909520948.jpg)
Location:
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/203/arma22010062909573526.th.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/203/arma22010062909573526.jpg)
My rig is in signature.
MavericK96
Jun 29 2010, 10:10
I duplicated niverin's location/screenshots and found similar results. It makes sense that more trees on the screen at once would drop framerate, but almost a 10 FPS drop is pretty substantial. Settings are in my sig.
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4366/arma22010062902575815.th.jpg (http://img85.imageshack.us/i/arma22010062902575815.jpg/) http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/1140/arma22010062902580866.th.jpg (http://img28.imageshack.us/i/arma22010062902580866.jpg/) http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/5206/arma22010062902581536.th.jpg (http://img713.imageshack.us/i/arma22010062902581536.jpg/) http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/8158/arma22010062902582800.th.jpg (http://img52.imageshack.us/i/arma22010062902582800.jpg/)
InFireBaptize
Jun 29 2010, 12:04
i will make a video of it once i'm done with my exams.
I've also noticed significantly worse performance in forests.
Can anyone of you try to remove "largeadressaware" flag from the exe with Editbin or similar? Suma thinks the changes in Memory Handling on 64Bit Systems might cause the performance issue.
I'm out of constantly PC-Use the next couple of days, as im rebuilding parts of my car, which has a higher priority.
But we should hurry, or we wont have those issues fixed in the unification patch for OA+Arma2.....
Can anyone of you try to remove "largeadressaware" flag from the exe with Editbin or similar? Suma thinks the changes in Memory Handling on 64Bit Systems might cause the performance issue.
I'm out of constantly PC-Use the next couple of days, as im rebuilding parts of my car, which has a higher priority.
But we should hurry, or we wont have those issues fixed in the unification patch for OA+Arma2.....
I tried and it does not help in my case, although what I am observing a general performance breakdown in the latest betas and the 1.07 patch, not just next to trees, rather everyhere. I reported it here:
http://dev-heaven.net/issues/11550
I cannot be sure, but I have a feeling that it is the same issue.
I haven't noticed any performance issues in the 1.07. The only problem for me is a significant FPS drop in Cipher and other "very scripted" missions (main Campaign etc) and these trees.
When explore islands via editor, everything is perfect smooth (60 FPS almost everywhere) but in Campaign or Cipher ... 15+ FPS drop :-(
Scripts (or AI) are too much resource hungry I think, but don't know if there is possible any improvement ... I am not an AI programmer :)
[TwK]Danny
Jul 9 2010, 15:15
I´ve had slow performance around trees in all versions. In fact, i think i had the same in Armed Assault 1 aswell.
Check the epic drop;
No trees, 39 fps.
http://img203.imageshack.us/f/arma22010070917070352.jpg/
Turn a little to the right, OMG A BUSH 12 O CLOCK 19 FPS
http://img688.imageshack.us/f/arma22010070917071119.jpg/
Location: http://img692.imageshack.us/f/arma22010070917072176.jpg/
Danny;1677369']I´ve had slow performance around trees in all versions. In fact, i think i had the same in Armed Assault 1 aswell.
Check the epic drop;
No trees, 39 fps.
http://img203.imageshack.us/f/arma22010070917070352.jpg/
Turn a little to the right, OMG A BUSH 12 O CLOCK 19 FPS
http://img688.imageshack.us/f/arma22010070917071119.jpg/
Location: http://img692.imageshack.us/f/arma22010070917072176.jpg/
next time include complete set of your settings in moment of taking the screeshots like AA level
Ofcourse rendering such lovely tree's will bring the performance down! I had the same issue when I had a single 8800GTX, some tree's would kill the performance. As soon as I upgraded to GTX275 it was at lot less noticable.
Now with two GTX275's in SLI it's non existant, maybe less than 2 or 3 fps drop when looking at trees.
The two performance killers I see are "towns"... or buildings... that kills my perf by like 50% and also the campaign (ARMA2) which runs at 22fps... no higher, no matter where I look or go.
EDIT: forgot to say that my GPU's heat up A LOT when looking at tree leaves, they normally run at about 64deg, and if i look at a set of tree's for over 2 min the GPU's hit almost 82deg before the fan ramps up higher.
This heatup in the GPU and (very slight) drop in FPS means the tree's require A LOT of GPU power to render, but they are quite detailed and complex, add a lot to the atmosphere. I would suggest dropping the AA or even turning it off if you have issues. I run at 1680x1050 with 8x AA and only notice a slight fps hit when looking at tree's. With a higher res this would be worse, so either drop the res or AA :)
Yapa
[TwK]Danny
Jul 9 2010, 17:19
next time include complete set of your settings in moment of taking the screeshots like AA level
Sorry, silly me. Forgot;
Ingame settings:
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1141/arma22010070919153774.jpg
ArmA2.cfg:
language="English";
adapter=-1;
3D_Performance=100000;
Resolution_Bpp=32;
Resolution_W=1920;
Resolution_H=1200;
refresh=60;
winX=16;
winY=32;
winW=800;
winH=600;
winDefW=800;
winDefH=600;
Render_W=1920;
Render_H=1200;
FSAA=2;
postFX=3;
GPU_MaxFramesAhead=1;
GPU_DetectedFramesAhead=1;
HDRPrecision=8;
lastDeviceId="";
localVRAM=1066389504;
nonlocalVRAM=1878093824;
Windowed=0;
---------------------------------------
The following,
GPU_MaxFramesAhead=1;
GPU_DetectedFramesAhead=1;
help reduce frame-skipping near trees/bushes. Ofc they do not solve any fps drop though.
My system;
ASUS Crosshair III Formula
Radeon HD 4890 1GB
Phenom II 965 3.4GHz Quadcore
4 GB OCZ "Black edition" 7-7-7-24-1T DDR3-1600
Wolfstriked
Jul 9 2010, 22:25
Does anyone think it may be the video memory setting.I set to default and my pc freezes.
IceBreakr
Jul 9 2010, 22:53
Yup, video memory setting plays a big role. I tested that option on Panthera and with couple of changes between low, med, high, default the framerates got better. I left it then and enjoyed a nice performance. Patch 1.05...
8800GT, DuoCore E6750, 4 GB, Win7 32.
The Tip by "[TwK]Danny (http://forums.bistudio.com/member.php?u=47487)" was worth Gold.
I set both values to "1" and all the mouse-lag i portrayed earlier is gone. The question is of course, why was the Value set to in my case "1000" in the first place by the BIS Patch?
Still the introduced issue remains with low-performance near bushes and trees.
Before i could look zoomed-in with a scope into a bunch of trees/bushes, but now i can't anymore. It drops FPS to "10" like it was in Arma1.....
So, the issue is 50% fixed i think, BIS just needs to make sure that the game wont auto-set "1000" for value "GPU_MaxFramesAhead", instead keeping it low ("1" for instance).
Regards, Christian
-=seany=-
Jul 10 2010, 01:13
The Tip by "[TwK]Danny (http://forums.bistudio.com/member.php?u=47487)" was worth Gold.
I set both values to "1" and all the mouse-lag i portrayed earlier is gone. The question is of course, why was the Value set to in my case "1000" in the first place by the BIS Patch?
Still the introduced issue remains with low-performance near bushes and trees.
Before i could look zoomed-in with a scope into a bunch of trees/bushes, but now i can't anymore. It drops FPS to "10" like it was in Arma1.....
So, the issue is 50% fixed i think, BIS just needs to make sure that the game wont auto-set "1000" for value "GPU_MaxFramesAhead", instead keeping it low ("1" for instance).
Regards, Christian
The value "1000" just tells it to use whatever the graphics driver has it set to, it's a "default" setting. On my machine it causes a 3 to appear in the GPU_DetectedFramesAhead=#; line
The value "1000" just tells it to use whatever the graphics driver has it set to, it's a "default" setting. On my machine it causes a 3 to appear in the GPU_DetectedFramesAhead=#; line
But the Graphics driver hasn't been altered by me at all, last update was ages ago as Version 10.5 from ATI appeared.
Also, where do i set that in the ATI Control Center? Never saw something like this.....
[TwK]Danny
Jul 10 2010, 11:37
But the Graphics driver hasn't been altered by me at all, last update was ages ago as Version 10.5 from ATI appeared.
Also, where do i set that in the ATI Control Center? Never saw something like this.....
You cannot set it in ATis Control Center, but you can set it using a third party program called ATi Tray Tools (you do NOT need this though since you can already set it the way you did via the .ini).
By default the ati (and nvidia driver) set this to 3. With nvidia, you can change this setting in your control panel (its called "max frames to render ahead").
Since ArmA II forces Vsync and tripple buffering on, this setting is depending on what fps you get.
If you mostly get fps below your monitors hz (eg below 60fps on a 60hz LCD), then setting is best at "1" when it comes to reducing mouselag.
If, however, you have a PC that manage fps constantly higher or equal to monitors hz, eg in ArmA fps constantly 60fps (without ANY drops) on a 60hz LCD and you should set both to "0" for reduced mouselag.
What seany meant is that there were two lines you changed, one showing 1000 and the other 3. This means the game uses 3 by default, since that is what your graphics driver is telling the game to use. This is what happens normaly, without you doing anything.
Thanks Danny...
Let me just tell you this straight:
I have never ever made any changes whatsoever, neither to my Arma2.cfg, nor to my Graphic-Drivers ini or whatsoever-files, ever.
So, who did changed those values to "bad ones" then???
Right, evidence condenses that there has been a bug introduced with one of the latest 2-3 beta patches before 1.07 final, in which the game detects this value wrong. And this wrong-detection still seems to be in the very latest beta-patches for OA.
Just look here: http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1678332&postcount=92
Whenever i delete my Arma2-cfg now and let it be re-created by the game, i get those entries which causes massive mouse-lag.
GPU_MaxFramesAhead=1000;
GPU_DetectedFramesAhead=0;
[TwK]Danny
Jul 10 2010, 12:17
Ah, so you actually get GPU_DetectedFramesAhead=0; ? Now that is wierd. When i delete my ArmA cfg i get GPU_DetectedFramesAhead=3;
What OS, graphics card and graphics driver are you using?
Danny;1678574']Ah, so you actually get GPU_DetectedFramesAhead=0; ? Now that is wierd. When i delete my ArmA cfg i get GPU_DetectedFramesAhead=3;
What OS, graphics card and graphics driver are you using?
Yes thats what i get on Auto-Detect.
My OS is Vista X64, Card is HD4890 Toxic 1GB and ATI Drivers are still 10.5, as i've heard newer version introduces issues with flash on websites and lower FPS in Arma2...
[TwK]Danny
Jul 10 2010, 12:34
Havent notice any issues with flash nor an fps drop in ArmA II with Catalyst 10.6 on my HD4890. But i doubt that will change anything.
Perhaps it really is a game bug then, introduced in some of these newer betas..
kklownboy
Jul 10 2010, 16:09
Does anyone think it may be the video memory setting.I set to default and my pc freezes. If you get a freeze, then your system is out of wack, though... yes it may just be the beta, but default should never freeze your PC. That sounds like a poor Vid driver (for the beta)
And or your settings are just to much for the amount and speed of your Vid RAM and system cache.
Then how you use all of your PCI-e lanes, Sound Card and Nic are sharing?
Wolfstriked
Jul 11 2010, 13:49
NIC is on motherboard.What BI should do is remove this setting from its users anyway.The game auto detects the Vram so why not just set this setting automatically then.
Fireball
Jul 12 2010, 06:16
NIC is on motherboard.What BI should do is remove this setting from its users anyway.The game auto detects the Vram so why not just set this setting automatically then.
AFAIK the VRAM value(s) in the ArmA2[OA].cfg is a write-only value which is there to help troubleshooting.
You will notice once you modify the setting and then restart the game.
I would prefer to see more info about the bad performance with trees - but the more I read about it, the more I'm sure it's only connected with older graphics cards (such as mine) which aren't up to the load which the complexity of the trees yields.
LeadCommando65
Jul 12 2010, 15:06
I would prefer to see more info about the bad performance with trees - but the more I read about it, the more I'm sure it's only connected with older graphics cards (such as mine) which aren't up to the load which the complexity of the trees yields.
Could be. I've got a 8800GT and the performance of Arma2 is great unless it gets to those red broadleaf trees and red bushes.
But what about the point, that there's no performance loss at all (or just a small), when you have the pine trees in the scenery instead of the red ones? The pine trees are also looking great and do no harm to performance (at least on my machine), but the red broadleaf trees are a catastrophe. I just don't understand the big gap between these two. Even not to think about that red shrub, which is truly another killer for performance.
Wolfstriked
Jul 12 2010, 20:30
I have a top of the line GTX480 with 1.5gig DDR5 ram.It reacts badly in red forests.FPS drop down to 25-ish and I guess its to be expected due to how it looks.I think they could do with removing most of them and having a red tree here and there dispersed around the pine trees.
Dwarden
Jul 12 2010, 20:46
The value "1000" just tells it to use whatever the graphics driver has it set to, it's a "default" setting. On my machine it causes a 3 to appear in the GPU_DetectedFramesAhead=#; line
GPU_DetectedFramesAhead
is purely read only value, no matter what you change to , engine will replace it with detected value on next run ...
usual driver default is 3
unless you used some NVIDIA control panel Render Frames Ahead setting (or in nhacer)
for ATI it's known as Flip Queue Size (e.g. in tools like ATT)
I have never ever made any changes whatsoever, neither to my Arma2.cfg, nor to my Graphic-Drivers ini or whatsoever-files, ever.
Right, evidence condenses that there has been a bug introduced with one of the latest 2-3 beta patches before 1.07 final, in which the game detects this value wrong. And this wrong-detection still seems to be in the very latest beta-patches for OA.
Just look here: http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1678332&postcount=92
Unfortunately it is not this easy. To me "evidence" shows (in this case SVN repository history) the corresponding code has not been touched for very very long time. If there was any change made, I would be more than willing to check it and to fix any problems it might have caused, but there is none.
Things like this happen all the time: we produce a patch which includes only a few minor AI fixes (like the last AI light sources patch) and no changes to any other parts of the game at all. Still some people report significant performance improvements or fixes in completely unrelated areas, some other report performance issues. While some of this can probably be ascribed to chance or bad observation, there are too many such reports for me to dismiss them as a pure chance or bad observation. As for what is causing this, I have unfortunately no idea. As sometimes even a simple identical version reinstall or even a system restart can change game behaviour, it is quite hard to follow such issues.
nate_77
Jul 14 2010, 01:51
I have this issue also. Only those damn red trees when I'm in a forest full of just them. They drop my fps to mid 20's, and I usually am running in the high 30's even when in cities with a bunch of AI. I run everything very high except terrain detail high and AA normal, also running at 1920x1080. This is all with an overclocked 5870 and a 4 GHz i7. The only solution to getting the fps above 30 in these red tree forests is to lower some graphics settings, but this is one of the most powerful gpu's available there should be no need to lower settings for a few badly optimized trees. It's just funny how inconsistent the game's vegetation is, some trees eat hardly any frames others are killers. I wish there was just one more patch for Arma 2 to fix this. I love this game to death, but this is almost a game breaking issue.
Fox '09
Jul 14 2010, 04:59
the red / orange trees always make my game run slow when I'm near them
Pauliesss
Jul 14 2010, 21:17
the red / orange trees always make my game run slow when I'm near themFor me any trees that are in high concentration in some areas, like in Zargabad around those small villages and houses.
Also noticed the slowdown near vegetation in OA suddenly being "back".
What's likely happening is the OA maps have nearly no vegetation over large portions of the map, so when you do approach the villages\areas with concentrated vegetation the performance drop is noticed immediately.
Where as on Chernarus it was at a constant middling to low ebb due to vegetation being present everywhere. Less spikes in performance.
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